Ronnie Coleman's poor form

[JoNeS]

I've seen both of his training videos and in each of them he does most of his lifts with a very limited range of motion. Example: during shoulder shrugs he moves his shoulders up about 1/2". During millitary presses and side raises, he doesn't even come close to locking out at the top. Same with bench presses.

However he gets real deep with his squats and other leg exercises. He obviosly has to be doing something right because he is the #1 guy. I thought maybe he was doing the partial reps, to force his muscles to grow. (Like an advanced technique so he could pass a plateu) Or maybe because he is so large he just doesn't have the full range of motion others do. Or maybe because he is jacked up on so much damn gear, it really doesn't matter how far his range of motion is.

I dunno what do you guys think?

 

[psychedout]

His form is half-assed, same with every other single pro i've seen, except Dorian.

But I belief form is vastly overated.

 

[super_rice]

it is a bit overrated, but then well, look at dorian

 

[vinylgroover]

I've seen both of his training videos and in each of them he does most of his lifts with a very limited range of motion. Example: during shoulder shrugs he moves his shoulders up about 1/2". During millitary presses and side raises, he doesn't even come close to locking out at the top. Same with bench presses.

However he gets real deep with his squats and other leg exercises. He obviosly has to be doing something right because he is the #1 guy. I thought maybe he was doing the partial reps, to force his muscles to grow. (Like an advanced technique so he could pass a plateu) Or maybe because he is so large he just doesn't have the full range of motion others do. Or maybe because he is jacked up on so much damn gear, it really doesn't matter how far his range of motion is.

I dunno what do you guys think?

I think it's a combination of all the above.

Don't forget though, that by locking out during an exercise, you are actually maing it a little easier by releasing some tension off the muscles. By not locking out, you are not transferring any of the weight to the joints therefore the muscles bare all the weight for the entire exercise.

And obviously with that much juice in your system doing reps with a broomstick will add muscle.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I think it's a combination of all the above.

Don't forget though, that by locking out during an exercise, you are actually maing it a little easier by releasing some tension off the muscles. By not locking out, you are not transferring any of the weight to the joints therefore the muscles bare all the weight for the entire exercise.

And obviously with that much juice in your system doing reps with a broomstick will add muscle.

I agree with Vinylgroover on the fact that locking out releases tension on the muscles and transfer them to the joints. ALOT of the current & older pros do them the same way. As far back as, "Pumping Iron" you see the pros training doing 3/4 reps and not locking out. Obviously, it works for them.

 

[InTraining]

I can understand not locking out on military press to keep constant stress on the delts and not use the tris as much....same with bench and pecs..

I have not seen either of his videos in full....but I think he is doing bent over rows in one of them...I wonder what his form is like? That exercise is extremely hard to maintain form on anyway

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Lets get one thing straight, yes pro's use gear, but if you think you know how much gear coleman, cutler or anyone else uses your kidding yourself..Pro's are like everyone on this board ull find those that run crazy amounts of shit and those that use less than some people here!! Im waiting for the second dvd to arrive but i have his first video..i dont really see what your talking about..squats are deep, deads are fine, BB rows he gets a full ROM.. there is constant tension on the lateral delt heads the whole time..

 

[Numani]

Ronnie uses constant tension on everything except deads from what i have seen. In fact a lot of pros appear to favour this technique. The difference is the muscle simply does not rest for the duration of the set. Weight and reps will be compromised initially.

 

[cwick0]

Are you are considering a full lockout on barbell bench being arms completely locked? If so, there is a reason he doesnt fully lockout. When you do a complete lockout, you shift a lot of the weight to your bones, which isnt exactly the best, i.e. like "numani" says he is keeping the weight on his muscles. My assumption is that is why he isnt locking out. NOTE: i havent seen the video. I rarely do complete lockouts for this reason.

 

[bigdho]

Lets get one thing straight, yes pro's use gear, but if you think you know how much gear coleman, cutler or anyone else uses your kidding yourself..Pro's are like everyone on this board ull find those that run crazy amounts of shit and those that use less than some people here!! Im waiting for the second dvd to arrive but i have his first video..i dont really see what your talking about..squats are deep, deads are fine, BB rows he gets a full ROM.. there is constant tension on the lateral delt heads the whole time..

AGREED!!

 

[cwick0]

just saw the video...he is doing half reps. The rep wasnt even close enought to claim he wasnt locking out, if he wouldve then his arms should have been 3/4 extended.

 

[Beachbum1546]

try doing skullcrushers the same way he does them. it is WAY harder than doing a full ROM.
there is a method to his madness.

 

[BrokerOnce]

saying form is overrated could make some people hurt themselves if they aren't careful

 

[Tom Treutlein]

In terms of causing growth, form is overrated. As long as you cause enough tension, the muscle will grow. The eccentric phase is where the damage really occurs anyway.

 

[punch]

the guy is almost 300lbs and current Mr. Olympia, critiquing his form is rather senseless and a waste of time, dont you think? Peace

 

[BrokerOnce]

the guy is almost 300lbs and current Mr. Olympia, critiquing his form is rather senseless and a waste of time, dont you think? Peace

I think the point was to figure out whether or not we need to be such sticklers on form? it is defnitely a waste of time to try to figure out if what he is doing works for him though, obviously it does

 

[Beachbum1546]

i think you will grow regardless of form. as long as you work the muscle hard it will grow. the key thing is. you are musch more prone to injusry with bad form. bad form might grow your muscles but what about your tendons, ligaments, and joints? you will grow both ways but with good form you will help protect everything else too.

 

[BrokerOnce]

i think you will grow regardless of form. as long as you work the muscle hard it will grow. the key thing is. you are musch more prone to injusry with bad form. bad form might grow your muscles but what about your tendons, ligaments, and joints? you will grow both ways but with good form you will help protect everything else too.

that's what I was worried about, I definitely agree with you. if you know how to use good form, then you should. there is no reason not to!

 

[SAGAT]

i agree as well, though i was def. too hung up on form when i first started out. i'm still not sure if that harmed me or was benificial to me

 

[UA_Iron]

i agree as well, though i was def. too hung up on form when i first started out. i'm still not sure if that harmed me or was benificial to me

probably one of the best things you could have paid attention too. Now that you know how to do the exercise you can manipulate it to where it puts more stress on the muscle and get more growth from it. Now people that start out with crappy form just look goofy.

 

[guldukat]

I've seen both of his training videos and in each of them he does most of his lifts with a very limited range of motion. Example: during shoulder shrugs he moves his shoulders up about 1/2". During millitary presses and side raises, he doesn't even come close to locking out at the top. Same with bench presses.

True.

However he gets real deep with his squats and other leg exercises. He obviosly has to be doing something right because he is the #1 guy. I thought maybe he was doing the partial reps, to force his muscles to grow. (Like an advanced technique so he could pass a plateu) Or maybe because he is so large he just doesn't have the full range of motion others do. Or maybe because he is jacked up on so much damn gear, it really doesn't matter how far his range of motion is.

I dunno what do you guys think?

He's awesome, but actually I think his leg stuff ain't deep. His 800 lbs. squats were well above parallel, and he was in a squat suit.

And those 2,000 lbs.+ leg presses? Like I said, he's pretty much God among all bodybuilders, but they were disappointing. The weight was maybe moved 8", if that.

I'd probably kill to duplicate his performance, no kidding But I honestly think his deadlifts are waaaaaay more impressive than his back squats or LPs.

 

[TheOak84]

i really dont think his form matters since hes as big as he wants to be (and keeps getting bigger) and keeps winning titles. personally, hes ugly as fuck. old school bbers are the shit. wasp waists and OAK sized chests. ya know

 

[Prime Rib2]

personally, hes ugly as fuck. old school bbers are the shit. wasp waists and OAK sized chests. ya know

Couldn't have said it better myself....

 

[SAGAT]

probably one of the best things you could have paid attention too. Now that you know how to do the exercise you can manipulate it to where it puts more stress on the muscle and get more growth from it. Now people that start out with crappy form just look goofy.

i guess you're right. i see people doing curls sometimes like they're doing the hokey-pokey or something. sometimes i'm just waiting for their backs to snap in half. but when i see pumping iron or ronnie lifting and see their form, i dunno...it gets me thinking

 

[wutangnomo]

I don't think Ronnie Coleman's form is "poor". Basically Ronnie has mastered how to hit HIS muscles spot on. You have to realize that when he benches, presses, etc he is using a shitload of weight. When using that high amount of weight it doesn't matter if his reps aren't "full". The body doesn't really recognize a couple inches difference in extension/contraction, it simply sees it as "trauma" and with that amount of weight any kind of decent rep (that recruits the targetted muscle fibers) will be effective. Do you honestly think that benching 500 HUNDRED pounds doing a half rep, 3/4 rep, or full rep (or however many inches more he should have went) is going to make a world of a difference?

Just like his squat, he's got 800 HUNDRED pounds on his shoulders. It ain't exactly going to make any difference if he doesn't go down all the way.

If you are blasting the muscle and don't get injured, then that's good form to me. However, what is a considered good/bad form is extremely subjective because we are all built a little differently.

 

[maccer]

Ronnies hams are so big that although from front on it looks like he has not hit parallel if you look from the side he definitely hit parallel

 

[NYBodyguard]

most pros in the 70's had poor form, the few guys I know in the gym that all they do is watch their form are tiny guys that if they put a wig on they could pass as a woman.

no way to life your max using strict form, im agaist total sloppy form that when you work your bi you dont feel anything in the bi because its so heavy but with strict form its hard, yes some have done it but its not common.

 

[BrokerOnce]

Ronnies hams are so big that although from front on it looks like he has not hit parallel if you look from the side he definitely hit parallel

that's an interesting point actually, he doesn't have much space there betweeen calves and hams because all the muscle takes it up hahaha

 

[JoNeS]

Was watching the cost of redemption and checking his form again. He was doing barbell bench press on the normal bench rack. The one with 2 supports on each side of the rack that can hold the bar.

Anyway he pops the bar off the top, goes down to about 2" above chest, then presses to about the height where the bar was initially resting. His total range of motion looks to be about 8". And this isn't just with heavy weight, it's the same ROM with the 135lbs set, to the 495lb set.

I initially stated "he doesn't even come close to locking out". Yea I know you shouldn't lock out, depending on the exercise, you should extend as far as you can while still keeping stress on the muscle. The farther you extend the more muscle fibers you recruit.

All I'm saying is in 75% of ronnie's lifts he greatly limits his potential range of motion during a lift.

I'm actually thinking about adopting his training method for a few months and see where it takes me. Can anyone tell me why he does this training method vs. to getting a fuller extension, recruiting more fibers, and still keeping stress on the muscle while not locking out?

 

[wutangnomo]

most pros in the 70's had poor form, the few guys I know in the gym that all they do is watch their form are tiny guys that if they put a wig on they could pass as a woman.

no way to life your max using strict form, im agaist total sloppy form that when you work your bi you dont feel anything in the bi because its so heavy but with strict form its hard, yes some have done it but its not common.

lol

I have to agree with this post. It all comes down to stress. Lift big, get big! All the body realizes is stress. You have to constantly increase the weight to grow (or be able to rep out a higher weight), but there is a point where one cannot use "strict" form. PROPER cheating is then required. I'm not talking use sloppy form that can injure oneself, but after a certain limit you have to use a bit of momentum to either increase the poundage or add a few more reps in.

 

[midlifecrisis]

lol

I have to agree with this post. It all comes down to stress. Lift big, get big! All the body realizes is stress. You have to constantly increase the weight to grow (or be able to rep out a higher weight), but there is a point where one cannot use "strict" form. PROPER cheating is then required. I'm not talking use sloppy form that can injure oneself, but after a certain limit you have to use a bit of momentum to either increase the poundage or add a few more reps in.

I thought cheating form + big weight = injuries? I guess I have much more to learn

 

[wutangnomo]

I thought cheating form + big weight = injuries? I guess I have much more to learn

It's difficult to explain b/c everyone has their own definition of cheating. The only way I can explain it is there is "proper" cheating and "improper" cheating (ie being sloppy to the point of injury).

IMO, Ronnie is cheating when he benching 500 pounds in that video.... BUT, he is doing it properly.

To me proper cheating is where you use some momentum to complete the rep yet STILL maintain the stress on your target muscle. Improper cheating is where you use momentum (and be sloppy) to the extent that there is actually less stress on the targetted muscle.

 

[view]

Do I dare say cheat curls?

 

[guldukat]

Ronnies hams are so big that although from front on it looks like he has not hit parallel if you look from the side he definitely hit parallel

Wouldn't bigger legs make it look like he hit parallel sooner, regardless of the angle?

It doesn't really matter, because I see I spoke too soon about his squat depth. I think he did hit parallel on that second rep! :eek!:

Freaky, freaky dude. I'm still a little disappointed in the leg press, but that's only because I've heard about it for so long and had very high expectations. Kinda short ROM or not, I can't overlook the fact he's moving over a TON!

(All this makes me wonder what Ronnie will look like this year. Has he said he's trying to get even bigger, or will he refine a bit? He was shredded at the 2003 O, but it'd be awesome if he could bring his waist in just a bit more. A mix of his size in 2003 and his aesthetics at the 1998 O would be just unreal. Well, even MORE unreal! LOL.)

 

[cwick0]

Anyway he pops the bar off the top, goes down to about 2" above chest, then presses to about the height where the bar was initially resting. His total range of motion looks to be about 8". And this isn't just with heavy weight, it's the same ROM with the 135lbs set, to the 495lb set.


This is how i do my barbell chest exercises and have never had a problem, in fact i have actually gained quite a bit of size and strength.


I initially stated "he doesn't even come close to locking out". Yea I know you shouldn't lock out, depending on the exercise, you should extend as far as you can while still keeping stress on the muscle. The farther you extend the more muscle fibers you recruit.

All I'm saying is in 75% of ronnie's lifts he greatly limits his potential range of motion during a lift.


I dont think full extention is always the key. It all depends on what you are trying to do, just like bench, i dont go all the way to the base of my neck on military presses either, only to the back of my head, crown area to be exact.


I'm actually thinking about adopting his training method for a few months and see where it takes me. Can anyone tell me why he does this training method vs. to getting a fuller extension, recruiting more fibers, and still keeping stress on the muscle while not locking out?[/QUOTE]

cant hurt can it?

 

[Texas Ranger]

This is CRAZY!! Everyone talks about how Ronnie's form is poor, but how can you argue with the results(6 Sandows, I believe)? If you ever seen any of the pros train, they train the EXACT same way. ALOT of them do! 3/4 reps with constant tension on the muscle. This works for THEM and would probably work for you if you just tried it. Ronnie has been training this way for 20+ years with NO major injury!! The guy is just not human. The rules that apply to him, DO NOT apply to the majority of us....

 

[solidg]

GH, insulin, and steroids

enough said

 

[wnt2bBeast]

GH, insulin, and steroids

enough said

Im sure thats his stack..but you forgot one thing...BALL BREAKING work..i dont care what u call it...not everyone can DL 800..gear or no gear

 

[Texas Ranger]

GH, insulin, and steroids

enough said

Yeah, but "probably" so is everyone else at that level. It still doesn't explain his work ethic and the 500+lbs benches, 200lbs dumbbell presses(12 reps), 2000+lbs Leg Presses, 800lb Deadlifts, etc... This is what separates him from being THE guy and everyone else is fighting for second.

 

[solidg]

Im sure thats his stack..but you forgot one thing...BALL BREAKING work..i dont care what u call it...not everyone can DL 800..gear or no gear

true

Im tired off coleman

I think cutler will unseat him soon.

 

[jcp2]

GH, insulin, and steroids

enough said

I am sure their are guys on these boards who run close to the doses of this guy, but i haven't seen anything similar to him on the pictures of members boards. Remember ronnie was strong as fuck as a powerlifter, hitting 700 dead before he became a bodybuilder, and i believe he was in a drug tested fed.

 

[guldukat]

Yeah, but "probably" so is everyone else at that level. It still doesn't explain his work ethic and the 500+lbs benches, 200lbs dumbbell presses(12 reps), 2000+lbs Leg Presses, 800lb Deadlifts, etc... This is what separates him from being THE guy and everyone else is fighting for second.

That's a big part of it, definitely. We can't overlook fantastic genetics--plenty of hard-working dudes juiced to the gills aren't anywhere near 285 in contest shape--but his training is certainly effective for him, no question about it