Protein intake in a single meal

[The Shadow]

Soup's On - Protein Intake in a Single Meal

CW: Here's a hot topic for you guys. People often ask me about how much protein can and should be eaten in a single muscle building meal. Although there may not be a single number given that can be applied to everyone because of the variables involved in protein metabolism (LBM, REE, T3-T4 levels, Testosterone, insulin, the list goes on and on), I'll say that based on size, a minimum of 40 grams per sitting should work well for everyone. It's important that people know that those amino acids do a heck of a lot more than build muscle. You need them to form a lot of various hormones and neurotransmitters, as well as other important constituents in the human body.

A maximum protein intake is much harder to estimate. In the real world, many guys consume amounts in the 60 to 90 gram range. By in large, these same men have all been successful in their bodybuilding efforts. Another thing to consider is the role that timing plays in how much you should consume in one sitting. Obviously, you should consume the largest amounts when rising and before going to bed. I feel you should also increase the amount of protein directly following a workout. Okay, what do you guys think?

JB: I agree completely on this point. Actually, this topic has been debated in the absence of data for far too long. Just to let you all in on a little secret, I'm aware of a research protocol being designed right now to investigate this very question! Pretty soon we should have some data that will tell us just how much protein can be absorbed in a single sitting. Exciting, right Lonnie? So Lonnie, to go one step further with this question, do you know of any good "adjunct" nutrients that may actually help us digest and metabolize even higher levels of daily or "per meal" protein intake?

LL: There's been talk of using bromelain and papain enzymes from pineapples and papaya, respectively, to increase protein digestion. The truth is, digestion of many proteins already averages above 90%, so I doubt they'll help much in this regard. I will say that when consuming powdered proteins, I personally try to double the fluid volume that most supplement labels recommend. This helps to keep me from continually "assaulting the porcelain," if you know what I mean. Nobody's going to grow with a thick, osmotic nightmare of nutrients dragging out their backside. I also try to eat some solid food with reconstituted protein drinks and MRPs for similar reasons.
















...BASIC CONSENSUS IS A MINIMUM OF 40 GRAMS PER MEAL AND DEPENDING UPON THE TYPE OF PROTEIN..POSSIBLY MORE...

 

[nycgirl]

Should your total be based on weight or lbm? Also, what about egg white protein? Do you take more?

 

[*Bunny*]

JB = John M. Berardi
CW = Cy Willson
LL = Lonnie Lowery

 

[nycgirl]

JB = John M. Berardi
CW = Cy Willson
LL = Lonnie Lowery

Thanks, that was my next question. I thought CW was Chefwide.

 

[The Shadow]

Should your total be based on weight or lbm? Also, what about egg white protein? Do you take more?

Those guys recommend 1.25-1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight....not lbm...although the number will vary etc...some even say to use 1.25-1.5 times the WEIGHT YOU WANT TO BE

SO...on larger bbing men for example...that could be as much as 400 grams or more...assuming 8 meals per day(which is a LOT)...then its about 50 grams per meal...a lot more than what some recommend as a max amount

 

[The Shadow]

I htink protein type is something that needs to be addressed to a greater extent....it just makes sense that WHEY for ex can be broken down and utilized to a greater extent than say, red meat.


I certainly feel the powders can be consumed in slightly larger amounts without losing any "punch" so to speak

 

[nycgirl]

Those guys recommend 1.25-1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight....not lbm...although the number will vary etc...some even say to use 1.25-1.5 times the WEIGHT YOU WANT TO BE

SO...on larger bbing men for example...that could be as much as 400 grams or more...assuming 8 meals per day(which is a LOT)...then its about 50 grams per meal...a lot more than what some recommend as a max amount

I think buffchic69 asked a similar question. I've seen conflicting advice (bodyweight vs. lbm). I always try to eat at least bodyweight. Lbm for me isn't too much.

Does it matter where or how you get your protein? Powder vs. Meat vs. veggie.

 

[The Shadow]

I think buffchic69 asked a similar question. I've seen conflicting advice (bodyweight vs. lbm). I always try to eat at least bodyweight. Lbm for me isn't too much.

Does it matter where or how you get your protein? Powder vs. Meat vs. veggie.

If s show isnt around the corner I feel a mix is important


Fish - Omegas
Chicken - LOW fat source
Red Meat - ful of Creatine and other great things

Whey post training

 

[nycgirl]

If s show isnt around the corner I feel a mix is important

Fish - Omegas
Chicken - LOW fat source
Red Meat - ful of Creatine and other great things

Whey post training

I assume it doesn't matter the type of show. Is it the same whether you are trying to gain muscle mass or just lean out?

 

[The Shadow]

I assume it doesn't matter the type of show. Is it the same whether you are trying to gain muscle mass or just lean out?

imo - it doesnt matter what type of show...the diea is to build/or at least maintain LBM till the show


in terms of cutting...its a toss up


whey and chicken are low in fat..whey has none

red meat and salmon/fish have fat cals with them

 

[Sassy69]

Well shit, now I can't find the reference. I'd always heard in the past that the body, at least a female body, can only process around 30 g of protein in 2-3 hrs. You can eat more protein grams but only process 30 g.

I apologize for the hearsay, but I'll look for a reference on this. This is also the basis for all of my trainer's diet development. For ex, if the goal is to build more muscle, then look to a consumption rate of 2 g protein per 1 lb lean body mass. So if I've got say 136 lb lean body mass, 2x that = 272 g protein. Divide that by around 30 g protein / meal, I get 9.1 meals w/ 30 g protein for the day. Generally I've included 1 c veggies w/ protein meals, and carb additions have varied depending on goals.

 

[~Lexy~]

Well shit, now I can't find the reference. I'd always heard in the past that the body, at least a female body, can only process around 30 g of protein in 2-3 hrs. You can eat more protein grams but only process 30 g.

I apologize for the hearsay, but I'll look for a reference on this. This is also the basis for all of my trainer's diet development. For ex, if the goal is to build more muscle, then look to a consumption rate of 2 g protein per 1 lb lean body mass. So if I've got say 136 lb lean body mass, 2x that = 272 g protein. Divide that by around 30 g protein / meal, I get 9.1 meals w/ 30 g protein for the day. Generally I've included 1 c veggies w/ protein meals, and carb additions have varied depending on goals.

I have read it too that a woman can only process about 30g of protein in 2-3 hrs. I think it was on www.bodybuilding.com.

Your avatar looks great Sassy, great muscle detail there.

 

[nycgirl]

Well shit, now I can't find the reference. I'd always heard in the past that the body, at least a female body, can only process around 30 g of protein in 2-3 hrs. You can eat more protein grams but only process 30 g.

I apologize for the hearsay, but I'll look for a reference on this. This is also the basis for all of my trainer's diet development. For ex, if the goal is to build more muscle, then look to a consumption rate of 2 g protein per 1 lb lean body mass. So if I've got say 136 lb lean body mass, 2x that = 272 g protein. Divide that by around 30 g protein / meal, I get 9.1 meals w/ 30 g protein for the day. Generally I've included 1 c veggies w/ protein meals, and carb additions have varied depending on goals.

This is what I trying to get at. I apologize for being unclear.

If you are trying to gain mass - do you need more protein? Vs. If you simply want to drop body fat. Let's say you want to stay your weight, but gain muscle mass and drop more fat (increase lbm; decrease bf).

 

[The Shadow]

Well shit, now I can't find the reference. I'd always heard in the past that the body, at least a female body, can only process around 30 g of protein in 2-3 hrs. You can eat more protein grams but only process 30 g.

I apologize for the hearsay, but I'll look for a reference on this. This is also the basis for all of my trainer's diet development. For ex, if the goal is to build more muscle, then look to a consumption rate of 2 g protein per 1 lb lean body mass. So if I've got say 136 lb lean body mass, 2x that = 272 g protein. Divide that by around 30 g protein / meal, I get 9.1 meals w/ 30 g protein for the day. Generally I've included 1 c veggies w/ protein meals, and carb additions have varied depending on goals.

Id like to see the reference...


all the anted. evidence pints tot he body handleing more than 30 grams every three hours..especially where Whey is concerned, as its in the system VERY quickly....


for every reference that says 30 is the limit, there is one that says more than 40.


I guess the point is.....look at what the most successfull bbers int he world are doing.....MASSIVE amounts of prootein in tiotal and per sitting

 

[The Shadow]

This is what I trying to get at. I apologize for being unclear.

If you are trying to gain mass - do you need more protein? Vs. If you simply want to drop body fat. Let's say you want to stay your weight, but gain muscle mass and drop more fat (increase lbm; decrease bf).

More isnt necessarily better either...though I would err on the heavy side....but I believe protein cycling is the next big thing

 

[nycgirl]

More isnt necessarily better either...though I would err on the heavy side....but I believe protein cycling is the next big thing

Why would you cycle protein? Carb cycling, I understand. But protein?

 

[Sassy69]

Id like to see the reference...


all the anted. evidence pints tot he body handleing more than 30 grams every three hours..especially where Whey is concerned, as its in the system VERY quickly....


for every reference that says 30 is the limit, there is one that says more than 40.


I guess the point is.....look at what the most successfull bbers int he world are doing.....MASSIVE amounts of prootein in tiotal and per sitting

Is this for MEN? and also for LARGER men? And are they talking about how much they CONSUME or how much they can PROCESS?

 

[The Shadow]

Well shit, now I can't find the reference. I'd always heard in the past that the body, at least a female body, can only process around 30 g of protein in 2-3 hrs. You can eat more protein grams but only process 30 g.

I apologize for the hearsay, but I'll look for a reference on this. This is also the basis for all of my trainer's diet development. For ex, if the goal is to build more muscle, then look to a consumption rate of 2 g protein per 1 lb lean body mass. So if I've got say 136 lb lean body mass, 2x that = 272 g protein. Divide that by around 30 g protein / meal, I get 9.1 meals w/ 30 g protein for the day. Generally I've included 1 c veggies w/ protein meals, and carb additions have varied depending on goals.

9 meals...every 2 hours....



that leaves 6 hours for everything else in the day??


doesnt make sense to me

 

[Sassy69]

SO...on larger bbing men for example...that could be as much as 400 grams or more...assuming 8 meals per day(which is a LOT)...then its about 50 grams per meal...a lot more than what some recommend as a max amount


.. if u subscribe to the idea that a female body can't process more than say 36 g protein / 2 hrs -- that's the only way to consume that much. I'm not saying i know its a fact but that is the concept as my trainer has established it.

and yes I'm trying to find that reference, but if u follow that idea, that's how it works.

 

[MR. BMJ]

It's gonna come down to what type of protein is being consumed and the amount of time a person allows it to digest before eating another protein meal. Eventually ait will all get digested within a given amount of time.

BMJ

 

[gjohnson5]

SO...on larger bbing men for example...that could be as much as 400 grams or more...assuming 8 meals per day(which is a LOT)...then its about 50 grams per meal...a lot more than what some recommend as a max amount


.. if u subscribe to the idea that a female body can't process more than say 36 g protein / 2 hrs -- that's the only way to consume that much. I'm not saying i know its a fact but that is the concept as my trainer has established it.

and yes I'm trying to find that reference, but if u follow that idea, that's how it works.

I dunno. I'm 5'9 240 21" arms and 29" legs and I barely take 300g of protein a day much less the amounts you guys are talking about. Females should be even more careful. There are 2 byproducts of protein consumption
1. water
2. ammonia
People can actually small like ammonia if they swallow too much protein. I think this is a bigger problem for females since they don't have as much muscle therefore less protein requirements.

Read these threads
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397278&highlight=smell+ammonia

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328435&highlight=smell+ammonia

Basically the consensus in my opinion is WAYYY overstated to the point of the above symtoms. Even protein can be abused, so females what your intake.

 

[nycgirl]

What is too much protein for females? I want to gain muscle mass, however I've never ate 2 grams of protein per lb (never went over 190 grams).

 

[gjohnson5]

What is too much protein for females? I want to gain muscle mass, however I've never ate 2 grams of protein per lb (never went over 190 grams).

2g per lb only makes sense for a guy on lots of gear. Steroids such as tren acetate will cause his body to synthesize more protein...

1. Start with 1g per 1 lb of lbm , then try 1.5 g per 1 lbm
I think this is a good starting point for guys too
2. Replace shakes with real food
Radar said that the most anabolic agent there is is food. I believe that to be correct. I only do 2 shakes a day. The rest is controlled through a sound diet. This is will help with pill popping as people tend to be lazy and not count the nutrients they get. Instead they go to GNC and buy pills. Resist this and manage nutrients through a good diet

 

[The Shadow]

if u subscribe to the idea that a female body can't process more than say 36 g protein / 2 hrs -- that's the only way to consume that much. I'm not saying i know its a fact but that is the concept as my trainer has established it.

and yes I'm trying to find that reference, but if u follow that idea, that's how it works.

I personally dont subscribe to that idea....

imo a broad statement of any sort that say X AMOUNT of protein can be utilized every 2-3 hours totally overlooks things like Bv and what I call "dissolution rate"......its saying that 36 grams of protein from red meat is equivalent to 36 grams of Whey.....we know that it takes much longer for the red meat to be digested than the whey...

 

[fmorrow6]

This is a great thread, thanks shadow.....( sorry I'm not much help. LOL) But I've always wondered.

 

[Sassy69]

Obviously I would like to find this reference - but YES in every discussion or rule of thumb about nutrition & body metabolism there are individual things you need to consider when applying.

Further, NO I am not suggesting that people eat 2 g protein per lb of lean body mass. I am simply using that to illustrate how some people (in this instance, my trainer) arrive at developing a meal plan for whatever specific purpose. It is only PART of the equation and I found that for ME personally I have to also consider the total cals when I look to increase any part of my diet because I just get fat if my cals go over 17-1800, regardless of the idea of feeding more protein to build muscle. There are SO MANY factors to identifying a diet that meets your specific needs while working with your specific current state, lifestyle, activity levels & recovery period. Some "rules of thumb" will work for you specifically, some won't. That's where it takes a lot of work, a lot of patience and sometimes a degree of faith to learn what works best for YOUR body.

 

[Sassy69]

I"m gonna throw this up here because it illustrates the extent of this discussion -- from a different board (and mods please feel free to pull if you feel inappropriate)

http://web.ask.com/redir?u=http://t...ttp://myjeeves.ask.com/action/snip&Complete=1