Nelson Montana said:
nandi: I appreciate what you're trying to do bro but that's essentially a round-about, technical explanation of saying the same thing I said.
Spidey: I don't mean to make light of your ailment. What you're calling sarcasim is just my way of being glib.
Your approach is indicitive of many of the people who frequent this board. You make an assumption, look for a drug to alleviate the problem, and then look for another drug to alleviate the problems the first drug gave you. Meanwhile, you still have the first problem.
I can not diagnose your flattened bicep, but I'm also not sure if GH is the answer. It may make it worse.
You also said your estrogen is normal yet you feel an estrogen blocker is the answer. (?) My assumption that the gyno was prog related was because you said you did tren.
Prog and prolactin don't necessarily elevate corespondingly. Excess Prolactin in men is very rare anyway.
What a lot of people don't realize is that gyno sometimes subsides by itself -- it may have nothing to do with the Nolvadex. Besides, if it's from elevated estrogen during your cycle, you're closing the barn door after the horse ran away.
The bottom line here; stop fucking yourself up further wih guesswork. And don't indiscriminately start taking more drugs on the advice of strangers on a message board.
I'm as sceptical of doctors as anyone, but if your condition is as serious as you make it out to be, you better get your ass to one. Then get a second opinion, and a third, and a forth. Talk to a surgeon. And an accupunturist. And someone who deals in A.R.T. And a physical therepist. Experiment with working aound your injury. Try different angles -- lighter weights with less rest in-between sets. Shorter movements. There's a lot you can do without making it a choice between taking a closetful of drugs or giving up.
Best of luck.
I am a little touchy about this whole thing
. I don't mean to attack anyone.
I will try to more clearly explain. I have had chronic shoulder problems for the last 10 years. It is usually asymptomatic until I overdo it somehow. When I do overdo it, I am in intense and constant pain for a minimum of three to four weeks. Mega doses of antiinflammatories don't touch it. I finally went and got an MRI and apparently my biceps tendon (where it attaches to the labrum in my shoulder) has significantly flattened, which the doctor tells me is evidence of some degeneration of the tendon itself. He believes that this is the cause of my pain.
I had hoped to stabilize my shoulder by building up the muscles around it. That was why I even considered steroids in the first place; I couldn't do that naturally for two reasons. First, I am a natural ectomorph that finds it nearly impossible to gain any weight and second, I couldn't get into the gym for more than a few days or a week before my shoulders would inflame and force me to quit. I needed results quickly as well as the enhanced recovery times that come from steroids.
I did my first cycle and gained a solid 25 pounds with no lasting sides. NO GYNO. I was elated; alas, my elation was short lived. Just two weeks after finishing my cycle and a day after finishing up my clomid therapy, my shoulders decided to do their thing and this time, it took six weeks and dozens of physical therapy visits for the pain to subside.
The orthopedist had nothing to offer me, except as a last resort, surgery. They would cut the tendon at the labrum and remove about 5 to 6 inches off the top and then reattach the tendon to my humerus. This would change the entire dynamics of my arm and shoulder, forever prohibiting a normal range of movement. Needless to say, I'm not too excited about that option. I have read about GH strengthening and thickening tendons and thought I would try it since I have nothing to lose (it certainly won't weaken them). I thought I had done my research but somehow I missed the possibility of GH induced gyno.
OK, with that background, I will address your post above:
First, I never said my estrogen levels were normal. Truthfully, I haven't had my estrogen levels even checked. I had my test levels checked and they were squarely in the middle of the normal range. Since, estradiol only has a 60 to 90 minute half life, and we get all of our estrogen from aromatization of test, estradiol levels are likely to closely correspond to test levels. Since my test levels are normal, I assume my estrogen levels should be normal as well. BUT THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION ON MY PART.
Second, GH increases IGF1. Elevated IGF1 can cause gyno in the presence of estrogen, perhaps even normal levels of estrogen. It does REQUIRE estrogen however. If I block my estrogen receptors, IGF1 shouldn't be able to cause gyno.
I have stopped taking the GH for now as Nandi suggested. If My gyno disappears and I take GH again and it comes back, are you still going to believe it was the tren's fault? Remember, I had no gyno symptoms of any kind until after I took GH for about 4 weeks.
Like I said, If you know any way to strengthen tendons, I am open to suggestion. My doctors don't know one.
-Spidey
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. I had hoped I could take GH to help my biceps tendon that has flattened. I don't know of anything else I could take to help that. I lucked out and got a hold of some humatrope from a close friend. I could never have afforded to buy it.
