Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below MIKERAZ said:
Prohormones: The Real Deal
- Thread starter PlexusNexus
- Start date
MIKERAZ said:
anabolic/androgenic ratio is pretty self explanatory. It is a ratio, and not a measure of absolute potency. You can have a steroid that is 10% as anabolic as testosterone and one that is 1000% as anabolic as testosterone and they can both have the same ratio.
methyl 4-AD is more anabolic than testosterone, but since it is also very androgenic it has a bad ratio. PHarmaceutical companies were NOT interested in the most potent anabolic agent, they were interested in anabolics with the best ratio. that is because women and children were also in the anabolic steroid market and you do not want these patients virilized.
You CAN esterify 4-AD. However it is hard to purify because of the mixture of isomers prevents crystallization of product.
There are several pathways to 17a-methyl prohormones. You do NOT methylate a dione directly. You can protect the 3 keto group selectively using an enol ether, enamine, or ketal/acetal derivative. After methylation and deprotection you end up with methyltestosterone, which can then be reduced to methyl 4-aD. Or you can methylate DHEA and then do an oppenauer oxidation to methyltestosterone, then reduce to the methyl 4-AD.
Due to steric hindrance, the methyl group is always added in the alpha position at carbon 17, so that is not a problem.
Animal does not know the subject matter, nor does he know synthetic organic chemistry in general. He should refrain from commenting on such matters.
pa1ad said:
First off once again i thankyou for your response
I think i got a idea correct me if im wrong, if a steroid is 1000 times more anabolic then test and 1000 times more androgenic then thats a bad ratio and the steroid wont produce muscle growth ,is that right ?
how much more anabolic and androgenic was Methyl4ad then MT?
so methyl1-test also had a crappy ratio? still looking for the article.
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MIKERAZ said:
"Anabolic" means it promotes the synthesis of more complex tissues from simpler substances -- in reference to muscle, it means it promotes the synthesis of muscle/protein from amino acids -- in other words, it promotes muscle growth.
"1000 times as anabolic as testosterone" means it is 1000 times as good at doing the above (promoting muscle growth) as testosterone..... at least in the rat levator ani muscle.
MIKERAZ said:
1:1 is a bad ratio yes - if you are talking about an anabolic steroid and not an androgen replacement steroid. Testosterone and methyltestosterone are given arbitrary ratios of 1:1, and they are the standards by which anabolic steroids are measured against
methly 1-test I think had a ratio of something like 2:1, which is better than test, but still not good enough compared to other anabolics on the market like anavar and winstrol
notpuff said:
I am traveling and do not have my files with me but...
If I recall methyl 1-test was something like 900% as anabolic as methyltest and something like 400% as androgenic as methyltest by oral
methyl 4-AD was a little more than 100% as anabolic and somewhat more than 100% as androgenic as methyltest by oral I think. I think it had a ratio LESS than 1:1, which makes it more androgenic than anabolic which definitely made it a bad candidate for clinical use
"1) Animal is wrong. It is very easy to make a 17alpha-methyl prohormone. So quit quoting what animal says. It is incorrect and therefore irrelevant"
Animal is wrong????? How can that be?? He told me, himself, that he was a genius.
If anyone wants to read the ramblings of a madman, go to Animal's site and read his lunacy post titled "Inhibition or Activation". It gave me a headache trying to comprehend his convoluted logic.
Animal is wrong????? How can that be?? He told me, himself, that he was a genius.
If anyone wants to read the ramblings of a madman, go to Animal's site and read his lunacy post titled "Inhibition or Activation". It gave me a headache trying to comprehend his convoluted logic.
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