Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Post workout???

WinnyPumps

New member
Post Workout I've been doing 50g waxy maize followed by 50g whey and kre-alkelyn creatine.
My question is should I be using something with sugar also to spike insulin levels?? Can I just put sugar in my waxymaize??
 
Post Workout I've been doing 50g waxy maize followed by 50g whey and kre-alkelyn creatine.
My question is should I be using something with sugar also to spike insulin levels?? Can I just put sugar in my waxymaize??

dextrose
 
Honey, or ultimately, just plain sugar.
 
Honey, or ultimately, just plain sugar.

Honey is good.

But ultimately as long as you have a solid pre workout meal, a good diet, you won't need an insuline spike at all. In fact chocolate milk or some whey and oats may work better than some "special carb".

The premise of WMS or amylocel doesn't really make much sense to lifter since glycogen isn't depleted. I'm sure most people here know how important a pre workout meal is to energy levels so I'll assume that you're getting a low GI carb in with a good source of fat and protein... with that said, you glycogen stores aren't nearly to the point of depletion that many think. Glycogen depletion may come into play in high endurance athletes and those who work out for 3+ hours of High Intensity training. So I'm not to say that High GI carbs aren't good for some, but for most people, there should be a steady flow of insulin without the need for an insulin response to replenish Glycogen.

I guess it all comes down to the type of training you're doing, in my opinion, if you're diet is right, you shouldn't need to worry about glycogen replenishment or the amount of water that you mix nutrients with.
 
I mix a drink of 50 gm's of protein isolate, 5 grams of creatine, 5 grams of bcaa, 5 grams of glutamine and 2 scoops of a product called max-acm (has waxy maize). Drop some toco-8 and endo-amp in it for good measure. Been doing pretty good, seems to be doing the trick. I like big blast too, just ordered another 10 lbs of it the other day. I use big blast when I'm not out of it but isopure seems to work pretty good when I am.
 
I don't quite understand this. I thought glycogen was always depleted to some extent after an intense workout. I know it isn't totally depleted, but at least enough to need a little replenishment.

And I don't quite understand why you say you don't need an insulin spike postworkout either.

Honey is good.

But ultimately as long as you have a solid pre workout meal, a good diet, you won't need an insuline spike at all. In fact chocolate milk or some whey and oats may work better than some "special carb".

The premise of WMS or amylocel doesn't really make much sense to lifter since glycogen isn't depleted. I'm sure most people here know how important a pre workout meal is to energy levels so I'll assume that you're getting a low GI carb in with a good source of fat and protein... with that said, you glycogen stores aren't nearly to the point of depletion that many think. Glycogen depletion may come into play in high endurance athletes and those who work out for 3+ hours of High Intensity training. So I'm not to say that High GI carbs aren't good for some, but for most people, there should be a steady flow of insulin without the need for an insulin response to replenish Glycogen.

I guess it all comes down to the type of training you're doing, in my opinion, if you're diet is right, you shouldn't need to worry about glycogen replenishment or the amount of water that you mix nutrients with.
 
Honey is good.

But ultimately as long as you have a solid pre workout meal, a good diet, you won't need an insuline spike at all. In fact chocolate milk or some whey and oats may work better than some "special carb".

The premise of WMS or amylocel doesn't really make much sense to lifter since glycogen isn't depleted. I'm sure most people here know how important a pre workout meal is to energy levels so I'll assume that you're getting a low GI carb in with a good source of fat and protein... with that said, you glycogen stores aren't nearly to the point of depletion that many think. Glycogen depletion may come into play in high endurance athletes and those who work out for 3+ hours of High Intensity training. So I'm not to say that High GI carbs aren't good for some, but for most people, there should be a steady flow of insulin without the need for an insulin response to replenish Glycogen.

I guess it all comes down to the type of training you're doing, in my opinion, if you're diet is right, you shouldn't need to worry about glycogen replenishment or the amount of water that you mix nutrients with.

We've had this discussion before :verygood:

I'm on your side of the argument now. Crazy pwo insulin spikes are completely unneeded imo. Unless you are a high level athlete training at high intensities for multiply hours at a time you are not going to deplete glycogen stores enough to warrant a heavy load of high GI carbs pwo. Not only that, but after resistance training GLUT4 will replenish what little glycogen was lost without the presence on insulin. I feel that the idea of specialty carbs and pwo concoctions is another gimmick of supplement companies and those wtih "special interests".

My ideal pwo meal.... 50g Whey isolate as I walk out of the gym. 15-30 minutes later 1 cup of oats mixed with 1 scoop of whey, 1 cup of frozen blueberries, and skim milk. I eat my next planned meal 1.5-2 hours later depending on hunger.


This is interesting......

Exercise, especially resistance training, has been shown to increase GLUT-4 translocation on skeletal muscle in the absence of insulin, meaning after your lift weights you do not need insulin for your muscles to uptake glucose. While insulin will certainly enhance the anabolic response of a meal post workout, slamming 100 grams of dextrose (pure glucose) is not needed since skeletal muscle is already able to uptake glucose in the absence of insulin after a workout. Increasing the glucose content of skeletal muscle (in the form of glycogen) is beneficial for gaining muscle, but remember that GLUT-4 transporters also exist on fat cells and therefore insulin secretion promotes the storage of glucose in both skeletal muscle and fat cells. Therefore, one needs to increase the storage of glucose in skeletal muscle and decrease the storage of glucose in fat cells; this can be done by consuming low glycemic carbohydrates such as oatmeal post-workout instead of high glycemic carbs like dextrose.
 
I don't quite understand this. I thought glycogen was always depleted to some extent after an intense workout. I know it isn't totally depleted, but at least enough to need a little replenishment.

And I don't quite understand why you say you don't need an insulin spike postworkout either.

Read this.....

In order for a cell to acquire nutrients to use in energy production, the nutrients must be transported across the cell’s membrane. The hormone insulin is used to activate the transportation of nutrients into cells and is considered the “storage” hormone. Insulin secretion causes the uptake of amino acids, free fatty acids, and especially glucose to be
increased.

When one ingests carbohydrates, their blood glucose level, also referred to as their blood sugar level, is elevated, which causes insulin to be secreted. It is insulin’s job to return the blood glucose level back to a normal, homeostatic range.

When insulin is secreted, the breakdown of stored nutrients (glycolysis, lipolysis etc.) is turned off and the storage of nutrients is turned on. It would be counterproductive
to breakdown stored glycogen to obtain glucose when glucose has just been ingested and is now in the bloodstream. This fact is important because when insulin is secreted, fat breakdown and oxidation is turned off! Therefore when one wants to increase fat oxidation to its fullest, insulin secretion needs to be limited.

The amount of insulin needed to return blood glucose levels back to normal after ingesting a given amount of glucose is called insulin sensitivity. Individuals have differing insulin sensitivities based mainly on their diet, activity level, and genetic factors. In most cases, an ectomorph and mesomorph are more insulin sensitive than endomorphs; this is one of the primary factors that cause endomorphs to gain fat more easily than ectomorphs and mesomorphs. An endomorph will need to secrete more insulin to shuttle a given amount of glucose into cells and therefore fat oxidation will be halted for longer than an ectomorph or mesomorph. Therefore, an endomorph needs to
pay more attention to insulin secretion in order to keep gains lean.

The body does not like it when glucose is floating around in the blood stream, so after a meal the body increases the uptake and oxidation of glucose to get rid of it. Over time, consistently elevated blood glucose levels can lead to cells becoming insensitive to insulin or insulin resistant, meaning more insulin most be secreted to return blood glucose levels to normal and therefore fat oxidation is blunted longer If endomorphs must secrete more insulin to return blood glucose levels to normal, then they are at a disadvantage when its comes to staying lean while bulking because fat oxidation will be turned off longer for them than an ectomorph or mesomorph
and there is a greater chance for them to become more insulin resistant.

Before we continue I want to point out why there is great emphasis placed on muscle glycogen levels. Building new muscle proteins and adding inches to your arms is not a priority to the body. The body will not create new muscle proteins when it senses it is in need of energy. When muscle has a lot of glycogen, the body senses it has enough “extra” energy and can build new muscle proteins effectively. If muscle glycogen levels
are depleted, the body must replete glycogen stores in addition to increasing protein synthesis, both of which require energy and nutrients. Therefore, when gaining muscle is
your goal, you want to have adequate muscle glycogen stores so more energy can be focused on protein synthesis. Now this is an isolated examination of muscle growth because there are many other factors besides glycogen stores that govern whether one
gains muscle or not. Let’s take a deeper look at the metabolic factors affecting glucose
uptake.

Insulin promotes glucose uptake through the synthesis and translocation of the GLUT-4 glucose transporter, found on skeletal and cardiac muscle cells and adipocytes.
In the absence of insulin, the GLUT-4 transporters lay under the cell’s surface. When insulin is secreted, the GLUT-4 transporter translocates to the cell’s surface allowing glucose to enter into the cell. There are other glucose transporters, but the GLUT-4 transporter is our primary concern. Enzymes are protein molecules that catalyze (speed up) metabolic reactions. In the case of glucose uptake, there are two we will examine: hexokinase and glucokinase.

The enzyme hexokinase is found in skeletal muscle and promotes glucose uptake independently of blood glucose levels. Hexokinase has a high affinity for glucose, which allows muscle to take up glucose from the blood even when blood glucose levels are low. Once the muscle has the glucose, it keeps it for itself and the muscle does not release glucose back into the bloodstream. Insulin secretion further enhances glucose uptake in addition to hexokinase’s actions. The enzyme glucokinase is found in the liver and is activated when blood glucose levels are increased. Contrast to skeletal muscle, the liver is in service to all other cells of the body, so when it senses other cells need glucose it releases glucose and sends it to the other cells. Skeletal muscle holds on to its glucose for itself but the liver releases its stored glucose for other cells to use when they need it. Hexokinase is basically acting all the time to give muscle glucose but glucokinase is only acting in the presence of high blood glucose levels. What does all of this mean? It means that you do not need to jack insulin through the roof for your muscles to get glucose! In fact, it gets even better.

Exercise, especially resistance training, has been shown to increase GLUT-4 translocation on skeletal muscle in the absence of insulin, meaning after your lift weights you do not need insulin for your muscles to uptake glucose. While insulin will certainly enhance the anabolic response of a meal post workout, slamming 100 grams of dextrose (pure glucose) is not needed since skeletal muscle is already able to uptake glucose in the absence of insulin after a workout. Increasing the glucose content of skeletal muscle (in the form of glycogen) is beneficial for gaining muscle, but remember that GLUT-4 transporters also exist on fat cells and therefore insulin secretion promotes the storage of glucose in both skeletal muscle and fat cells. Therefore, one needs to increase the storage of glucose in skeletal muscle and decrease the storage of glucose in fat cells; this can be done by consuming low glycemic carbohydrates such as oatmeal post-workout instead of high glycemic carbs like dextrose.

In summary, it is not necessary to jack blood glucose and insulin levels through the roof in order to replenish glycogen and gain muscle. Skeletal muscle is able to uptake glucose whenever it needs it. In addition, skeletal muscle is primed to uptake glucose after exercise. By controlling your insulin levels you can gain lean mass while keeping fat gains to a minimum.
 
I've converted SouthernLord!!!



:D
 
I don't quite understand this. I thought glycogen was always depleted to some extent after an intense workout. I know it isn't totally depleted, but at least enough to need a little replenishment.

And I don't quite understand why you say you don't need an insulin spike postworkout either.

Keep in mind that Whey Protein alone can raise BS levels and Insulin.
 
Didn;t read the whole thread so not sure if it was mentioned. Grape juice contains fructose which DOES NOT spike insulin.
 
that was a good read Southern Lord.

I'm still left with a question. When on a ketogenic diet, the muscle and liver glycogen is severely depleted after days without carbs. This has always been a problem for me, especially with my muscle fullness.

I am especially curious on the post workout carbs as I have recently moved from a CKD to a TKD of sorts where I take in carbs post workout. I was weary of doing this at first and am still weary of the post workout carbs while on a keto diet. I'm really not sure what to do.

Perhaps I am thinking of this all wrong, but I am still scratching my head.
 
lol
chocolate milk started to win over everything in studies.

what's next?
chocolate milk 3x a week has found to be more effective for muscle growth then trenbolone 3x a week?
 
Top Bottom