Poor upper body strength

[victorreed]

I have a terrible natural imbalance in strength between my upper and lower body.

i weight 165lbs. Can leg press 500+lbs but i can only bench 80lbs.

An 80lb benchpress is pathetic, it's under half my body weight. Do i best improve this through alot of bench training and should i do low reps of max weight or lots of reps at a lighter weight and how long before my upper body strength gets respectable.
Any feedback would be great.

 

[silver_shadow]

question: is that leg press all the way down or only a few inches....

 

[bignate73]

my recommendation is get good at full pushups first get up to doing 3-4 sets of 25 or so, then move to dips. likewise with pulldowns and then pullups(the numbers will be a little different here). build your pushing and pulling strength basically.

its not so disproportional with the leg press. the leg press gives a false sense of strength. I know alot of people that can move some weight on the leg press, that you wouldnt think can do it. the angles give it false weight. if you've had physics, calculate what weight 500lbs would be being pressed on an angle less than 90 deg. its interesting....

 

[super_rice]

leg press means squat.

ahaha man i'm in the funny zone today... squat... haha

but seriously, you won't have any problem with overall body strength if you could full squat half of what you leg press

 

[deeder]

but seriously, you won't have any problem with overall body strength if you could full squat half of what you leg press

Agreed

 

[fortunatesun]

I don't think bench press is an indication of overall upper body strength, though of course it's the most popular. You might want to try a few power cleans or deadlifts to develop the entire top half.
Even with benches, you're not just using your pecs. The other groups that play key roles are triceps, shoulders, and lats. The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

 

[bignate73]

power cleans are definitely not an upper body exercise, nor are deadlifts, unless you are talking shrug power and grip strength.

 

[fortunatesun]

I'm thinking general back development. These are basic compound lifts that strengthen the entire upper body. He's concentrating on just his chest, which is only just part of the equation.

 

[bignate73]

i agree and his overall stability to handle heavier loads would be better as well.

 

[victorreed]

Thanks guys i'll give it some thought. Specifically the leg press is 45 degrees, going down alittle past 90 degree leg angle (when the upper part of my quads are touching my stomach).
fortunatesun mentioned that chest is only part of the equation which is obviously true but i curl 55lbs dumbells and do lat pulldowns at 180lbs it just seems my chest area is exceptionally weaker than any other part of my body...maybe its my core body strength cause my abs arn't great either....

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

Thanks guys i'll give it some thought. Specifically the leg press is 45 degrees, going down alittle past 90 degree leg angle (when the upper part of my quads are touching my stomach).
fortunatesun mentioned that chest is only part of the equation which is obviously true but i curl 55lbs dumbells and do lat pulldowns at 180lbs it just seems my chest area is exceptionally weaker than any other part of my body...maybe its my core body strength cause my abs arn't great either....

I hate to point out, but you almost listed why your chest is weak. I haven't seen you post a single compound exercise, other than the bench. Curls with leg/back movement don't do much to develop speed/power, neither do lat pulls. Can you do squats? if so ditch the leg press. If you want try doing overhead squats for some balance/full body power. Bench press uses a lot of pec/tricep/lat strength and to me, it sounds like you were focusing on using your biceps.

Add military press or push-press to your workout, even though it uses mostly shoulders, the power/strength you develop with it will help you push more on the bench.

 

[super_rice]

I hate to point out, but you almost listed why your chest is weak. I haven't seen you post a single compound exercise, other than the bench. Curls with leg/back movement don't do much to develop speed/power, neither do lat pulls. Can you do squats? if so ditch the leg press. If you want try doing overhead squats for some balance/full body power. Bench press uses a lot of pec/tricep/lat strength and to me, it sounds like you were focusing on using your biceps.

Add military press or push-press to your workout, even though it uses mostly shoulders, the power/strength you develop with it will help you push more on the bench.

yeah that's right on.

how about you set some real goals and try to achieve those, and stop being a pussy. the following are good goals:

full squat 265
deadlift 315
bent over row 135
proficient at chinups, pushups etc.

and your bench will be what you want it to be. you should have this in less than 2 months training properly.

 

[super_rice]

edit: i'm not trying to shut you down. those are not high numbers, they are not your limit and they are in no way unattainable, even though you are "benching" "80 pounds" right now. my 16 y/o brother pretty much learned to squat and then backsquatted ~320 while going up 20lbs in under 6 months. 3x a week, backsquat 2x, bench 2x, DL 1x /week. that's all he did. oh, and try to do chin ups but that's a diff story

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Lower body training will have nothing to do with upper body strength increases. I think I heard that trying to be put across, and that's just not true.

 

[super_rice]

Sorry, I was trying to emphasize overall body strength. My apologies, you are right.

 

[Eaglesguy]

Lower body training will have nothing to do with upper body strength increases. I think I heard that trying to be put across, and that's just not true.

There have been quite a few studies that have shown that lower body training does effect overall strength and muscle development, ATF squats in particular.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

There have been quite a few studies that have shown that lower body training does effect overall strength and muscle development, ATF squats in particular.

I bet there have.

Post up.

Squatting will not build your upper body. It will not help your upper body to grow if the upper body is already getting a direct stimulus. The only arguement I can see would be something for arms if you're doing high-bar oly squats and using the arms to statically brace the weight (even though it should be on your traps more than anything) which would result in a nominal increase in CSA of the tissue due to the isometric contraction - and this will only apply to beginners.

Of course, you're welcome to believe what you want. That won't make it true.

 

[victorreed]

Thanks for the help, i'll try and be less of a pussy in the future. Instead of the Pushdown machine to do tricepts i'm now doing Parallel Bar Dips with body weight, same with my back, I'm doing Lat Pullups with body weight instead of machine because i reckon body weight exercises are heaps better in this case. I've never done a squat but i'm aware they are an excellent exercise. I know my legs are fine to do them but i'm not sure my upper body will support 300lbs across my shoulders so i'll wait until my strength improves a bit before attempting them.
Good to see ppl with experience willing to help out. Cheers.

 

[tay1506]

If u can't support 300 on ur shoulders then lower it and do more reps!! Trust me you can support 300 lbs unlease there is something wrong with you. Almost anyone that is a little bit fit can support that much weight, but it would help to develope ur abs and lower back. Squat is the hardest thing to do i hated it, but now i kinda like doing them. As for upper emphasize on triceps and lats if dont correctly you don't use your pecs very much while benching. If done incorrectly however it's a different story. I can bench almost 30 more lbs. over my neck than over my pecs do to the fact that i spent 1 year working on pecs and did no lat or delt work(before i knew what i was doing) which was not a smart move. Also i mest my left shoulder up very bad with bad form think i tour my rotary cuff while maxing, but i refuse to go to doctors so not to sure.

 

[victorreed]

Sounds bad. Yeah i try to work every muscle group so i don't have imbalance. I'll give the 300lbs a shot then.
Oh and i guess after all this i should give an idea of how i'm built. I'm 180cm, 78kg with 4.5% bodyfat.

 

[b fold the truth]

If you want to bench press more:

Gain 15 lbs
Squat 2x a week...at least
Flat Bench Press
Work the heck out of your rotator cuffs (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Do Standing Overhead Press
Gain another 15 lbs

I am 188cm and 130 kg with visible signs of abs

 

[victorreed]

Hehe we have ourselves a meat-tank on our hands. I like your advice it tells me what i have to do and how to do it simply...maybe i should have helped everyone earlier by giving my body stats in the beginning...

 

[victorreed]

OK i have one more question before i'll let this thread die...

Can i gain 25-30lbs of muscle mass in 7 months and could someone sorta just list some good exercises to kick me off and if i should just add say 10% extra weight to everything like every 2 weeks or i should completely change exercises every so often?

give you an idea of where i'm currently at:

weight: 78kg (171lbs)
bodyfat: 4.5%
height: 180cm

Can lift own body weight:
45 pushups in a minute
8 bodyweight lat pullups
11 bodyweight tricept dips

*Can and probably will train 4 times a week*

 

[b fold the truth]

OK i have one more question before i'll let this thread die...

Can i gain 25-30lbs of muscle mass in 7 months and could someone sorta just list some good exercises to kick me off and if i should just add say 10% extra weight to everything like every 2 weeks or i should completely change exercises every so often?

give you an idea of where i'm currently at:

weight: 78kg (171lbs)
bodyfat: 4.5%
height: 180cm

Can lift own body weight:
45 pushups in a minute
8 bodyweight lat pullups
11 bodyweight tricept dips

*Can and probably will train 4 times a week*

If I were you, I'd look at one of many simple routines posted here. One that would have you squatting and deadlifting 2x a week, and pressing 2-3x per week. You need to get in and out of the gym as quickly as possible and spend as much time as possible in the kitchen and in the bed. I'd suggest something like:

Monday:
Back Squat: 3 sets of 5 reps
Flat Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Stiff Legged Deads: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Abs
Rotator Cuff Exercises

Wednesday:
Front Squat: 2-3 sets of 5-8 reps
Incline Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Chin Ups (palms away): 2 sets of maximum reps
Abs


Friday:
Standing Overhead Barbell Press: 3 sets of 5-8 reps
Deadlifts: 3-4 sets of 5-8 reps
Tricep Push Downs: 1 set of 12
Curls: 1 set of 12
Calf Raises: 1 set of 20
Abs
Rotator Cuff Exercises

Every day you should be eating 200 grams of prot, 300-400g carbs, and whatever fats you can get in.

Yes, you can gain 25 pounds of muscle mass in 7 months at your level and height. As far as changing exercises, it is good to do so as long as your CORE exercises remain or you are changing with variations of them. When to add weight? Add weight when you can. Remember, you are starting and most likely to get an injury NOW. Spend the extra time working on form, ab strength, lower back strength, and rotator cuff work.

I see that you are in Australia, I live in Cyprus. If you can work on these things for a couple months...I'll be more than happy to send you some bench press training DVD's in the mail during the Summer.

 

[Eaglesguy]

I bet there have.

Post up.

Squatting will not build your upper body. It will not help your upper body to grow if the upper body is already getting a direct stimulus. The only arguement I can see would be something for arms if you're doing high-bar oly squats and using the arms to statically brace the weight (even though it should be on your traps more than anything) which would result in a nominal increase in CSA of the tissue due to the isometric contraction - and this will only apply to beginners.

Of course, you're welcome to believe what you want. That won't make it true.

You're welcome to belive whatever you want. I wasnt saying it was definative, but I read a few studies back in school that showed it did have some affect.

 

[tay1506]

You're welcome to belive whatever you want. I wasnt saying it was definative, but I read a few studies back in school that showed it did have some affect.

Well it does because with good form you should use a little leg muscle and also it helps release testosterone which everyone knows makes u get stronger. I also think that longer harder workouts help alot to raise test levels just from experience.

I think that is a good routine that b fold the truth posted and yes i would do some light high rep shoulder work too to help your shoulders not get screwed up. If i was you i would also emphasize more on your weeknesses such as maybe close grip bp or skull crushers or something thrown in there. This is because it seems like your triceps are week compared to the rest. I would also do bent knew rows for the lats instead of deads because they help the lower back some while hitting the lats great. The best thing for the back i would say would be hypers and they don't tire you out as much like squats and you recover quick which is why i think doing alot of accesory work is best.

Just some things you might want to add however do what b fold the truth said and start with your compound movements first and hit them hard!!! Good luck!!!

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

The hormonal release of leg training is nominal. If you're going to argue for the hormonal benefits of leg training when progress of the upper body is concerned, then I'll join in and argue how ineffective training the lower body is when increasing the size & strength of the upper body is the goal, due to the huge drain lower body training takes on the CNS, mind, and musculature on the whole.

 

[b fold the truth]

The hormonal release of leg training is nominal. If you're going to argue for the hormonal benefits of leg training when progress of the upper body is concerned, then I'll join in and argue how ineffective training the lower body is when increasing the size & strength of the upper body is the goal, due to the huge drain lower body training takes on the CNS, mind, and musculature on the whole.

My best pressing increases have came when I was not squatting or deadlifting as often, as much, or as intense...or hardly at all for one reason or another.

Results are hard to argue with.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

My best pressing increases have came when I was not squatting or deadlifting as often, as much, or as intense...or hardly at all for one reason or another.

Results are hard to argue with.

Not sure why this was directed at me, and whether it was to be taken as you're siding with my point, or believing I mean something other.

Your results are what I'd expect, let's just put it that way.

 

[victorreed]

Ok thanks for all the help guys. Special thanks to b fold the truth for taking the time to give me a routine i can expand on. I think i was trying to do too much for the beginning. I'll keep you posted maybe monthly to let you all know how i'm going, i'm sure most of you don't want to hear it but i guess some my be interested.

 

[b fold the truth]

Not sure why this was directed at me, and whether it was to be taken as you're siding with my point, or believing I mean something other.

Your results are what I'd expect, let's just put it that way.

Was agreeing with YOU...

 

[Guinness5.0]

Slightly o/t (sorry to jack your thread - take this as a seconding of b fold's advice ).

I tend to think that a NEWB will see best progress in upper body if they focus on lower body as well, whereas an advanced lifter would see best direct results by focusing theor efforts on a specific area, as b fold's experience suggests. Just my .02

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Slightly o/t (sorry to jack your thread - take this as a seconding of b fold's advice ).

I tend to think that a NEWB will see best progress in upper body if they focus on lower body as well, whereas an advanced lifter would see best direct results by focusing theor efforts on a specific area, as b fold's experience suggests. Just my .02

Well I don't know about best progress with their upper, 'cause the stimulus of lower body work doesn't magically change from newbie to advanced (i.e., it doesn't start out affecting the upper body, then outright change). At the same time, I do think a newbie should be focusing on his entire body. Upper body specialization should come later, when weak points need to be brought up. But that's discussion for another day.

 

[tay1506]

Anthrax too some extent i can agree with u im just saying everything ive read, however just because someone that should know what they are talking about doesent mean they do. For instance the best ive ever bench was 270 at 150 however it was with bad form. I'm not talking arching and all that im simply talking about position of the bar which lead to a torn rotary. At this time however i did no leg work only upper body and my test levels were out the roof anyone would tell u i took steriods even though i did not. I also however worked out 4 hours a day and ran 9 miles(9 miles was easy), which i have heard from many thats not a good idea too gain strength. These people probly did other stuff though, all i did was sleep eat and girls. I think studies are shit and for the most don't really tell you much because you do not know where your people are at in life. I just say work on your weaknesses and sleep and work your lower body and upper out as hard and often as possible without over training. This is however the hardest thing to do.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

That was very jumbled, so I'm not sure what you were getting at entirely.

From what I did understand - yes, consistency is of utmost importance. The rest is pretty easy.

Did you get your test levels checked? If not, you don't know if they were "through the roof". I don't see the relevance of this, anyway.

All that running, plus four hour sessions, coupled with (an assumption, here) too little food means poor strength gains. Has nothing to do with training lower body with upper, still not seeing the relevance.

Agreed - work on your weak points, keep up with your strong points, bring everything up over time, sleep and eat. Done.

 

[tay1506]

No i dident get my test levels checked however i am very in touch with my body and i can tell the difference from hardly any, average and alot.
I was also saying that you can not always believe what someone says no matter how well they should know what they are talking about. I was saying yes that I ran alot and worked out too much acording to many, but that is when i saw most of my strength gains dramatically increasing. However i got lots of sleep and ate pretty good everyday.

 

[bignate73]

being "in tune" with your body means nothing. what does that mean? you had more energy? you were more aggressive? sounds like if i were sleeping more and eating correctly, I could feel that way too. there are too many factors that vary for you to nail it down. sleep, workouts, food, and hormonal changes. plus you could be deconditioned and on the comeback which can attribute to alot of progress. way too many variables....