*PICS* Funny picture thread!

[needtogetaas]

fear.
and wanting to fit in. its what everyone else is doing... including most people's parents.

think for yourself and be free.

wanting to fit in.give me a frigen brake......................please.
do you know how frigen stupid I felt and most people feel when they step into a church fore the first time.do you know how much it takes to put aside youre pride and walk up to the frunt of a church and hit youre knees and cry like a child before evry one.do you think people do it to fit in.i dont think so.they do it becuase they are hopeless,broken,in need of a saver.what ever but far far far from wanting to be cool and fit in.to say that just makes you look like an ass.

 

[Lestat]

wanting to fit in.give me a frigen brake......................please.
do you know how frigen stupid I felt and most people feel when they step into a church fore the first time.do you know how much it takes to put aside youre pride and walk up to the frunt of a church and hit youre knees and cry like a child before evry one.do you think people do it to fit in.i dont think so.they do it becuase they are hopeless,broken,in need of a saver.what ever but far far far from wanting to be cool and fit in.to say that just makes you look like an ass.

bro, people want to fit in with their own FAMILY man. Imagine growing up in a family of 5 and NOT believing in something that the other 4 people all held as absolute fact, one of the most important things in their lives, and you just disagreed? I doubt you'd have the stomach to live that way.

 

[jnevin]

YES! the wanting to fit in is huge.

a girl i dated said she grew up in Utah, not mormon though, but her parents (non mornmons) would drop her and her brother off at church every sunday! They never wanted to, but her parents said they would make friends that way!!! As non mormons, they were the outsiders at school and stuff.

That's how it is here. They have their general conference twice a year and talk about what god said to do new for this part of the year. One of the church higher up cult monkeys actually said that parents should stop discriminating against non-mormon families and children should be allowed to play together.

You need someone from your church to tell you that?

 

[needtogetaas]

if there was a god, he'd make it so you could spell bro.

why becuase its what I want.lol or becuase you think its a good thing.
if I asked fore gods help and I realy tride and beleaved i could with his help i bet he could.it all up to me though.expecting it to be so essy as fore me to say god make it so I can spell and he should is just dumb.so youre saying god should be my wish slave.

 

[Lestat]

That's how it is here. They have their general conference twice a year and talk about what god said to do new for this part of the year. One of the church higher up cult monkeys actually said that parents should stop discriminating against non-mormon families and children should be allowed to play together.

You need someone from your church to tell you that?

yeah I love how some people need someone in power to tell them NOT to do something that is detrimental to themselves and they need the same person to tell them to do good things.

Its like shit, what does everyone else do?????

i'm not a believer, and I like to do things because they bring good to the world, not because I'm afraid I'll fry in hell if I don't!

 

[jnevin]

why becuase its what I want.lol or becuase you think its a good thing.
if I asked fore gods help and I realy tride and beleaved i could with his help i bet he could.it all up to me though.expecting it to be so essy as fore me to say god make it so I can spell and he should is just dumb.so youre saying god should be my wish slave.

So, what you're saying is that if you try to do something and really apply yourself, you can do things without god's help. Like he's not even there.

 

[needtogetaas]

bro, people want to fit in with their own FAMILY man. Imagine growing up in a family of 5 and NOT believing in something that the other 4 people all held as absolute fact, one of the most important things in their lives, and you just disagreed? I doubt you'd have the stomach to live that way.

there is a big difrance to just saying yes I beleave just becuase others do.and realy beleaveing.yes there are people that just beleave becuase there parints did.but fore people like me yes I beleaved becuase my father said there was a god to me.but I never realy excepted it and excepted him till I did it on my own.untell I needed him.
saying you bealeve and acting on it are to difrant things.if it was about fitting in then yes all I would have don is just say I bealeve.but know people do more then just that.people seek him out.people go and make themselfs look like fools to others just to find him.not something you do when youre just trying to fit in.

big big difrance in just being a normal evry day beleavore and saying you beleave then realy looking fore god.being broken and asking him fore help.swollow youre pride............ trying to fitt in is about haveing pride.to be a real beleaver you have to swollow youre pride lestat.you have to exept the fact that youre a peace of shit sinner,youre filthy,inside of you is nothing but sin and the disire to do so,to except god has a better life then what you want fore youreself.to give up what you think is youres to let some one elce rule youre life.were the fffffffffffffffuuuuuuck is the pride in that.it takes a pridfull person to do things just to fit in.

 

[jnevin]

I am my own wizard of id.

 

[Lestat]

there is a big difrance to just saying yes I beleave just becuase others do.and realy beleaveing.yes there are people that just beleave becuase there parints did.but fore people like me yes I beleaved becuase my father said there was a god to me.but I never realy excepted it and excepted him till I did it on my own.untell I needed him.
saying you bealeve and acting on it are to difrant things.if it was about fitting in then yes all I would have don is just say I bealeve.but know people do more then just that.people seek him out.people go and make themselfs look like fools to others just to find him.not something you do when youre just trying to fit in.

big big difrance in just being a normal evry day beleavore and saying you beleave then realy looking fore god.being broken and asking him fore help.swollow youre pride............ trying to fitt in is about haveing pride.to be a real beleaver you have to swollow youre pride lestat.you have to exept the fact that youre a peace of shit sinner,youre filthy,inside of you is nothing but sin and the disire to do so,to except god has a better life then what you want fore youreself.to give up what you think is youres to let some one elce rule youre life.were the fffffffffffffffuuuuuuck is the pride in that.it takes a pridfull person to do things just to fit in.

sorry bro, im not a piece of shit sinner, and I am fully capable of living a good life on my own. I am not perfect, and I've fucked up and done shit to hurt people and myself before, but so has every other Christian too right, so why bother with all the baby jeebus stuff, why not concentrate on being a good person and forget the stupid dogmna. leaves more time for spelling bees and fun shit like that.

 

[Phenom78]

Jersey, this isn't a misunderstanding of theology, it's how god has been defined. Catholic, baptist, whatever, it's how christianity has defined and chosen to believe in god. When asked how to explain it, faith always comes back. How do you have faith in that? Oh, you just do. There's no reason behind it, it is what it is. What god told man write has reason though, have faith in god. Or he'll send you to hell. He loves you.

I'm so reluctant to touch this because it will get us completely off topic.

Does God send us to hell or do we put ourselves there? What is hell? Was exile from Paradise punishment or mercy? These are not the simplistic matters you present. Libraries are filled with people tackling these questions.

But your original point was with respect to faith.

Repeatedly, and apparently with no success, I have communicated adherence to the precept that faith is not an exercise in reason. I don't claim it to be, so who are you arguing with bro? Its like you guys have this set written speech and prove yourselves completely incapable of debating the topic once it deviates from your prepared statements.

The sad part is that the acknowledgement was made prior to either of you bringing up the non argument.

Seperately scripture and theology can be examined through the prism of reason.

If someone tells you there is a bomb in the building about to explode, but they have no idea where it is hidden, you have a choice to make. You either believe or don't believe them. Without confirmation you have to accept the matter on faith that either they are telling the truth or are not.

Seperately if after telling you that the bomb is there they advise that you should cover your body in pancake syrup and stand on your hands until it explodes you can apply reason to what was said.

Whether or not God exists is a matter of faith. Seperately one can examine what was attributed to Him through the light of reason and respond accordingly.

 

[Lestat]

the whole story of how we came to be is stupid.

God supposedly is omnipotent right? so he knows everything, ever before it happens.

So before god supposedly created man, he KNEW that we would be tempted by the serpent, eat from the tree, and fall into sin.

So why bother creating us? Doesn't sound like a very loving thing to do does it?

For that matter, why did he create all the angels? Because he wanted being to worship him, but then his top dawg got pissed and left and took a bunch of angels with him (here to referred to as demons). So god created these things knowing that they would turn on him and then in turn fuck around with his human ant farm.

Oh and why did he create humans? To worship him! You guys sensing the pattern here? So if this religion shit pans out, god is a truely a sadistic motherfucker and will probably promote me to top dawg for at least trying to talk some sense into the lemming and sheep that run around doing everything they can to avoid this "hell" of which we have no proof or even accurage description of.

Jokes on us motherfuckers!

 

[jnevin]

I'm so reluctant to touch this because it will get us completely off topic.

Does God send us to hell or do we put ourselves there? What is hell? Was exile from Paradise punishment or mercy? These are not the simplistic matters you present. Libraries are filled with people tackling these questions.

But your original point was with respect to faith.

Repeatedly, and apparently with no success, I have communicated adherence to the precept that faith is not an exercise in reason. I don't claim it to be, so who are you arguing with bro? Its like you guys have this set written speech and prove yourselves completely incapable of debating the topic once it deviates from your prepared statements.

The sad part is that the acknowledgement was made prior to either of you bringing up the non argument.

Seperately scripture and theology can be examined through the prism of reason.

If someone tells you there is a bomb in the building about to explode, but they have no idea where it is hidden, you have a choice to make. You either believe or don't believe them. Without confirmation you have to accept the matter on faith that either they are telling the truth or are not.

Seperately if after telling you that the bomb is there they advise that you should cover your body in pancake syrup and stand on your hands until it explodes you can apply reason to what was said.

Whether or not God exists is a matter of faith. Seperately one can examine what was attributed to Him through the light of reason and respond accordingly.

You watched Die Hard With a Vengeance recently.

 

[stilleto]

wanting to fit in.give me a frigen brake......................please.
do you know how frigen stupid I felt and most people feel when they step into a church fore the first time.do you know how much it takes to put aside youre pride and walk up to the frunt of a church and hit youre knees and cry like a child before evry one.do you think people do it to fit in.i dont think so.they do it becuase they are hopeless,broken,in need of a saver.what ever but far far far from wanting to be cool and fit in.to say that just makes you look like an ass.

wanting to fit in with SOCIETY (and your family). Its easier to believe like everyone else does than to go against the norm and stand up and say "there is no god."

btw... there is no god.

 

[needtogetaas]

I'm so reluctant to touch this because it will get us completely off topic.

Does God send us to hell or do we put ourselves there? What is hell? Was exile from Paradise punishment or mercy? These are not the simplistic matters you present. Libraries are filled with people tackling these questions.

But your original point was with respect to faith.

Repeatedly, and apparently with no success, I have communicated adherence to the precept that faith is not an exercise in reason. I don't claim it to be, so who are you arguing with bro? Its like you guys have this set written speech and prove yourselves completely incapable of debating the topic once it deviates from your prepared statements.

The sad part is that the acknowledgement was made prior to either of you bringing up the non argument.

Seperately scripture and theology can be examined through the prism of reason.

If someone tells you there is a bomb in the building about to explode, but they have no idea where it is hidden, you have a choice to make. You either believe or don't believe them. Without confirmation you have to accept the matter on faith that either they are telling the truth or are not.

Seperately if after telling you that the bomb is there they advise that you should cover your body in pancake syrup and stand on your hands until it explodes you can apply reason to what was said.

Whether or not God exists is a matter of faith. Seperately one can examine what was attributed to Him through the light of reason and respond accordingly.

nicely said bro.

 

[needtogetaas]

wanting to fit in with SOCIETY (and your family). Its easier to believe like everyone else does than to go against the norm and stand up and say "there is no god."

btw... there is no god.

how much shit do you realy get fore saying you dont beleave.lol youre acting like its a grate feet you have to go throw.99% of amerca may say they beleave in god.but they realy dont give a shit if you do or not.

 

[stilleto]

i never said its something heroic. i said its easier to believe- does anyone try to convert you to judaism when you tell them you're *insert whatever it is you are*?

people try to convert me all the time. they question what made me this way. does that happen to you?

religion is a big myth. Your parents signed you up for it and you believe because thats what you were brought up believing. unlike the tooth fairy and santa claus, nobody told you it was made up when you got old enough to realize its fake.

 

[needtogetaas]

i never said its something heroic. i said its easier to believe- does anyone try to convert you to judaism when you tell them you're *insert whatever it is you are*?

people try to convert me all the time. they question what made me this way. does that happen to you?

religion is a big myth. Your parents signed you up for it and you believe because thats what you were brought up believing. unlike the tooth fairy and santa claus, nobody told you it was made up when you got old enough to realize its fake.

no evry one gets old enoff and makes there own choce.
and yes.when I was going to church and liveing fore god all my old friends made fun of me fore it all the time.some one would call and say hay lets go get high.I would say no thanks and tell them why.then they would all make fun of me.chosing to live a life fore god made all my old friends hate me and not want to hang out with me.so did I do it to fit in then.explane that.

 

[needtogetaas]

bro, people want to fit in with their own FAMILY man. Imagine growing up in a family of 5 and NOT believing in something that the other 4 people all held as absolute fact, one of the most important things in their lives, and you just disagreed? I doubt you'd have the stomach to live that way.

if you realy beleave youreself bro then why cant you just get on with youre life and stop asking why.

 

[wootoom]

who cares about religion believe what u believe fuckin lot of whiners in here, phenom wash my ass

 

[nimbus]

didnt read through the whole thread, but i laughed at the pictures. can't please everyone man; a lot of hypocrites in this thread

 

[wootoom]

didnt read through the whole thread, but i laughed at the pictures. can't please everyone man; a lot of hypocrites in this thread

totally alot of panties in a bunch in here

 

[dutchman063]

wait until you die bro, oh boy, if you only knew what was in store!!! I just happen to know, don't ask me how because I have no proof, but I just know and damn man, fuck, you should give me 10% of your money real quick.

LOL...Best post ever... btw funny pics lestat

 

[jnevin]

totally alot of panties in a bunch in here

It's called a thong, you dickbag. And I look gr8 in it.

 

[wootoom]

It's called a thong, you dickbag. And I look gr8 in it.

i dont fuckin care

 

[jnevin]

i dont fuckin care

Your he-beef curtains are quivering.

 

[stilleto]

no evry one gets old enoff and makes there own choce.
and yes.when I was going to church and liveing fore god all my old friends made fun of me fore it all the time.some one would call and say hay lets go get high.I would say no thanks and tell them why.then they would all make fun of me.chosing to live a life fore god made all my old friends hate me and not want to hang out with me.so did I do it to fit in then.explane that.

woah there.
you're trying to tell me that when your friends said, "c'mon, lets go get high", you said "no thanks" and then opened your bible?

didja tell that to the judge?
You didn't live your life as chaste as you'd like to be able to prove your point.

you did get old enough to make your own decision, but you didn't. you kept the belief your parents gave you because it was easier.

 

[Lestat]

who cares about religion believe what u believe fuckin lot of whiners in here, phenom wash my ass

lmao @ wash my ass!!!

 

[Phenom78]

who cares about religion believe what u believe fuckin lot of whiners in here, phenom wash my ass

Why?

Is your boyfriend complaining about your hygiene again?

 

[wootoom]

Why?

Is your boyfriend complaining about your hygiene again?

poor jerseyart

 

[Phenom78]

pffft cathlic religon is shit.tell me were in the bible it says I should pray to mother mary or any of the fucken saints.tell me were it says I have to cunfase my sins to a preast and not god himself.

I allready knoew what youre going to say to.

well jesus said to join as he was dieing this is youre mother.and to marry this is youre son.fucken lol so you base a hole faith praying to mother mary and all the saints on one fucken line that dosent even meen what youre saying it meens.

o we conface or sins to a preast becuase tha bible say to confase youre sins to youre brothers.lol yes it means dont go lieing to people saying you dont sin when you do.

oooooooo wate dont forget the holey sacramins.fuck the holey sacramins.the fucken bible cleerly says know man should add or subtract from this book"talking about the bible"and gess what the fucken holy sacramins do just that............


cathalasisum only came about becuase the romins could not get rid of the true cristoin faith so they said fuck it lets give it to them but with our own twist.did you know that instead of the preast telling you you need to say one hundrid hall marrys he used to tell you you need to pay the church 100 gold and youre sins will be foregiven.

the kathlic shurch was ruthless.it killed and slotterd milloins of people and small natoins all just to push its self and get rich.


did you know kathlics bow down to a statue of mother mary and a fucken candle before they start church.fucken shit thats sick.


the bible cleerly states "DO NOT PRAY AS THE PAGINS DO.BEING REPATISHUS AND STANDING IN THE STREETS FOR ALL TO SEE"SO THEN TELL ME WAY THE FUCKEN CATHLICS DO THIS THEN.WHY DO THEY HAVE LIKE 1000 DIFRANT PRAYERS THAT THEY RESITE REPIDLY AND DO IT ALL TOGATHER SO EVRY ONE CAN SEE.they rosery beeds is nothing but a tricket to help you say a reppeded bunch of prayers.


fuck the pope.lets look into why the kathlics have a pope.well they say its becuase jesus asked petter who do you think I am and petter was the only one to say to him you are the crist the son of god the massa.so then jesus said to him you are right and the rock witch I will bild my church on.any thing you say on earth will be in heaven and so one and so forth.

bull shit.that was a scripsher talking to all cristoins saying that if you belave that jesus is the son of god and youre savore then you are the rock on witch he will bild his church on.


ya I know I cant spell big fucken deal but if you take the time to read what I say and not come back with some lame ass come back about my spelling.then you will see you ant got a fucken leg to stand on.kathlics by the bibles standers are dead fucken wrong in allmost all they do.

but shit as long as they beleave jesus is there savore and died fore them it realy dont matter.

LOL

I'm not that ambitious tonight but here are a few things to get started

1) We don't pray to Mary. She isn't God.

We ask for her intercession. No different than if I asked you to pray for me. But coupled with the promise in the Old Testament that the prayers of a righteous person hold special sway with the Lord.

If you read the "Hail Mary" it goes

"Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed Art Thou among women, and Blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus"

The above is taken precisely from scripture. It continues

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners. Now and at the hour of our death Amen"

As the above clearly states, we ask her to pray for us. We don't pray to her.

2)Forgiveness of sins

To whome else but the apostles did Christ grant the power? And not even all the apostles, but only a small group. I dont recall the exact quote but I know in James there is also a reference to forgiveness and a tie to the clergy.

3) As to sacraments you'd have to be more specific in your objections.

4) The rest is just simply anger combined with ignorance, absent any susbtantiation.

 

[Wulfgar]

talking about the big 4
Money, sex, religion, politics
is sure to get a rise out of almost anyone.

I personally wouldnt worship the christian god. He has too many human traits of vengeance, judgement, damnation, soverignty, dichotomy and condemnation to name a few
who would want to worship that is beyond me, might as well worship a King or some other wordly human.
my god is beyond duality and is a god of infinite compassion, forgiveness and understanding.
just my .02...carry on with the pointless arguing

 

[curling]

I wouldn't wish that end on any one. Certainly not Lestat.

Every lost soul is a incalculable tragedy.

I didn't say I wished that on him at all. I pray that the Lord softens his heart and he accepts Him before he leaves this earth.

 

[curling]

talking about the big 4
Money, sex, religion, politics
is sure to get a rise out of almost anyone.

I personally wouldnt worship the christian god. He has too many human traits of vengeance, judgement, damnation, soverignty, dichotomy and condemnation to name a few
who would want to worship that is beyond me, might as well worship a King or some other wordly human.
my god is beyond duality and is a god of infinite compassion, forgiveness and understanding.
just my .02...carry on with the pointless arguing

First off He is soverign period but he is also compassionate. Did the God you pray too send his son to die for yours and my screwups?

 

[Phenom78]

I didn't say I wished that on him at all. I pray that the Lord softens his heart and he accepts Him before he leaves this earth.

To match his brain?

 

[Smurfy]

I like how people are so passionate when they want to tell others what they believe in, but yet do they actually LIVE BY THEIR BELIEFS??????

I doubt it.


Also, why the need to persecute others for what they believe in? Who cares? Believe in who ever or whatever you want. That's the beauty of this country. You have the right to believe in and practice whatever you choose. Go for it. or dont. You have that right, too. But what others believe in doesnt really have any direct impact on me personally. Im certainly not offended by others' beliefs, even if those beliefs are not true for me.
And one of the things a lot of non-believers dont like is people preaching and trying to impose their religion on others - or worse yet, evangelists. But when you are trying to force your own beliefs of "Hey there is no God. You're all fucked and brainwashed." - isn't that the same thing???? Aren't you forcing your beliefs on others? And preaching what it is you believe to be true for yourself?


Can i get a witness from the congregation???!!!

 

[jnevin]

I like how people are so passionate when they want to tell others what they believe in, but yet do they actually LIVE BY THEIR BELIEFS??????

I doubt it.


Also, why the need to persecute others for what they believe in? Who cares? Believe in who ever or whatever you want. That's the beauty of this country. You have the right to believe in and practice whatever you choose. Go for it. or dont. You have that right, too. But what others believe in doesnt really have any direct impact on me personally. Im certainly not offended by others' beliefs, even if those beliefs are not true for me.
And one of the things a lot of non-believers dont like is people preaching and trying to impose their religion on others - or worse yet, evangelists. But when you are trying to force your own beliefs of "Hey there is no God. You're all fucked and brainwashed." - isn't that the same thing???? Aren't you forcing your beliefs on others? And preaching what it is you believe to be true for yourself?


Can i get a witness from the congregation???!!!

second

 

[Smurfy]

second

ditto.

 

[patsfan1379]

I like how people are so passionate when they want to tell others what they believe in, but yet do they actually LIVE BY THEIR BELIEFS??????

I doubt it.


Also, why the need to persecute others for what they believe in? Who cares? Believe in who ever or whatever you want. That's the beauty of this country. You have the right to believe in and practice whatever you choose. Go for it. or dont. You have that right, too. But what others believe in doesnt really have any direct impact on me personally. Im certainly not offended by others' beliefs, even if those beliefs are not true for me.
And one of the things a lot of non-believers dont like is people preaching and trying to impose their religion on others - or worse yet, evangelists. But when you are trying to force your own beliefs of "Hey there is no God. You're all fucked and brainwashed." - isn't that the same thing???? Aren't you forcing your beliefs on others? And preaching what it is you believe to be true for yourself?


Can i get a witness from the congregation???!!!

this would be valid BUT... your pushing YOUR beliefs on us.

I still love you

 

[Deterass]

lmao @ peeps getting offended

 

[Smurfy]

this would be valid BUT... your pushing YOUR beliefs on us.

I still love you

lol. where?

I havent mentioned what my religious beliefs are in this thread at all.

 

[patsfan1379]

lol. where?

I havent mentioned what my religious beliefs are in this thread at all.

you are pushing your belief "WHO GIVES A CRAP" on us. Trying to convince us that we shouldn't be offended, or care...

Evangelist.

 

[Smurfy]

you are pushing your belief "WHO GIVES A CRAP" on us. Trying to convince us that we shouldn't be offended, or care...

Evangelist.

lol true.

 

[jnevin]

lol true.

ditto

 

[Smurfy]

ditto

ok folks! It's a Wrap!!


lockerup!

 

[jnevin]

lol

 

[stilleto]

i don't care what other people believe and I'm not pushing mine on anyone- i just stated my opinion and that was it.

pretty simple.

 

[Smurfy]

i don't care what other people believe and I'm not pushing mine on anyone- i just stated my opinion and that was it.

pretty simple.

telling someone who clearly believes in God that there is in fact no God. I guess I just dont get down with that kind of thing. This entire thread is a gross spectacle of behavior IMO. I mean, Needto with the cursing in the same sentence as talking about religion and religious entities. People calling each other names. That's what makes me question whether people actually live their life according to what they say they believe, ya know? It all seems rather hypocritical to me - but I can only go by what's written here.

I guess it just makes more sense to me to have respect for other people's beliefs. Even if I dont believe the same.

 

[shivastool]

Hey, where did the funny pictures go?

http://www.cafepress.com/bettybowers/346830

 

[jnevin]

Hey, where did the funny pictures go?

http://www.cafepress.com/bettybowers/346830

Right in the lumber yard, Denny.

 

[Wulfgar]

First off He is soverign period but he is also compassionate. Did the God you pray too send his son to die for yours and my screwups?

again
u are denoting human traits into something without form. If God is infinite wouldnt he be beyond finite human traits such as self-sacrifice and martyrdom?

We are all sons and daughters of god. just like jesus. jesus was no better than you or I or anyone. only difference was jesus was a more evolved being for him time. which is why He preached love and understanding. Jesus taught the path to forgiveness. he understood god is not a singular being who stands up above and judges and punishes all of us.
If god is inifinite in his compassion then there is NOTHING that couldnt be forgiven. So much for the theory of hell. the only hell we could goto is one we condemn OURSELVES through through an identity aspect.

 

[T-Matt]

again
u are denoting human traits into something without form. If God is infinite wouldnt he be beyond finite human traits such as self-sacrifice and martyrdom?

We are all sons and daughters of god. just like jesus. jesus was no better than you or I or anyone. only difference was jesus was a more evolved being for him time. which is why He preached love and understanding. Jesus taught the path to forgiveness. he understood god is not a singular being who stands up above and judges and punishes all of us.
If god is inifinite in his compassion then there is NOTHING that couldnt be forgiven. So much for the theory of hell. the only hell we could goto is one we condemn OURSELVES through through an identity aspect.

Good post bro.. I never really looked at it like that.. I never really had the urge to communicate with my subconcious mind to be able to piece all that together.. thanks..

T-Matt

 

[Smurfy]

again
u are denoting human traits into something without form. If God is infinite wouldnt he be beyond finite human traits such as self-sacrifice and martyrdom?

We are all sons and daughters of god. just like jesus. jesus was no better than you or I or anyone. only difference was jesus was a more evolved being for him time. which is why He preached love and understanding. Jesus taught the path to forgiveness. he understood god is not a singular being who stands up above and judges and punishes all of us.
If god is inifinite in his compassion then there is NOTHING that couldnt be forgiven. So much for the theory of hell. the only hell we could goto is one we condemn OURSELVES through through an identity aspect.

isnt it believed that the concept of hell is reserved for those who dont believe and those who dont ask for forgiveness?

 

[curling]

again
u are denoting human traits into something without form. If God is infinite wouldnt he be beyond finite human traits such as self-sacrifice and martyrdom?

We are all sons and daughters of god. just like jesus. jesus was no better than you or I or anyone. only difference was jesus was a more evolved being for him time. which is why He preached love and understanding. Jesus taught the path to forgiveness. he understood god is not a singular being who stands up above and judges and punishes all of us.
If god is inifinite in his compassion then there is NOTHING that couldnt be forgiven. So much for the theory of hell. the only hell we could goto is one we condemn OURSELVES through through an identity aspect.

We are once once we believe in His son. Then we are adopted which is better than biological parents because you can not disown adoted children. And he will forgive anyone as long as they trust in His son as their Savior.

 

[Smurfy]

where's needto?

gentlemen, start your engines!

 

[Phenom78]

again
u are denoting human traits into something without form. If God is infinite wouldnt he be beyond finite human traits such as self-sacrifice and martyrdom?


If god is inifinite in his compassion then there is NOTHING that couldnt be forgiven. So much for the theory of hell. the only hell we could goto is one we condemn OURSELVES through through an identity aspect.

That is somewhat simplistic.

Ascribing human traits is incorrect because they "generally" imply a lack. We are finite dependent beings whereas at least theoretically God is not. To ascribe human motives to Him would often suggest lack.

Creation was an act of Unconditional Love. As was the Crucifiction.

Self sacrifice, and in some cases "martyrdom", are human attempts at returning that love.

Hell could be described primarily as an absence of God. Sin as a conscious choice to turn away or absent ourselves from God. So does God put us in hell, or do we by our choices put ourselves there?

 

[Lestat]

That is somewhat simplistic.

Ascribing human traits is incorrect because they "generally" imply a lack. We are finite dependent beings whereas at least theoretically God is not. To ascribe human motives to Him would often suggest lack.

Creation was an act of Unconditional Love. As was the Crucifiction.

Self sacrifice, and in some cases "martyrdom", are human attempts at returning that love.

Hell could be described primarily as an absence of God. Sin as a conscious choice to turn away or absent ourselves from God. So does God put us in hell, or do we by our choices put ourselves there?

how was creation an act of unconditional love?

to me, if the bible was true, creation would be the most selfish thing to do ever. create flawed beings that you KNOW will disobey you just so you can fuck around with them?

was the crucifiction planned by god, or was it the result of free will of men? I'd say the latter, just like the "fall" was. the whole fucking thing is a god damned joke.

 

[Spartacus]

 

[stilleto]

I guess it just makes more sense to me to have respect for other people's beliefs. Even if I dont believe the same.

I have, and always will, respect other people's beliefs. everyone should be allowed to say what they think, and do so in an adult way. the people that have to scream and curse, do so because they can't prove their point any other way.

 

[patsfan1379]

i don't care what other people believe and I'm not pushing mine on anyone- i just stated my opinion and that was it.

pretty simple.

i dont get it.

 

[DBBT]

funny as in gay.....YES!

 

[stilleto]

i dont get it.

its about turkey.

 

[Lestat]

telling someone who clearly believes in God that there is in fact no God. I guess I just dont get down with that kind of thing. This entire thread is a gross spectacle of behavior IMO. I mean, Needto with the cursing in the same sentence as talking about religion and religious entities. People calling each other names. That's what makes me question whether people actually live their life according to what they say they believe, ya know? It all seems rather hypocritical to me - but I can only go by what's written here.

I guess it just makes more sense to me to have respect for other people's beliefs. Even if I dont believe the same.

To me it makes NO FUCKING SENSE to respect irrational thought and behavior when it has negative effects on others.

To me it makes more sense to expose the irrational thought and behavior and work to get rid of it. Like I've said before, just like Alchemy. Imagine if a doctor conjured up a spell or a potion to cure your apendicitis instead of surgery, he'd get his medical license REVOKED and he'd be RIDICULED.

 

[Smurfy]

To me it makes NO FUCKING SENSE to respect irrational thought and behavior when it has negative effects on others.

To me it makes more sense to expose the irrational thought and behavior and work to get rid of it. Like I've said before, just like Alchemy. Imagine if a doctor conjured up a spell or a potion to cure your apendicitis instead of surgery, he'd get his medical license REVOKED and he'd be RIDICULED.

Well, I suppose if you could show what you're doing actually produces results, then your argument here might have some validity.

How successful have you been in getting people to conform to your ideology? I'm curious.

 

[Frisky]

Well, I suppose if you could show what you're doing actually produces results, then your argument here might have some validity.

How successful have you been in getting people to conform to your ideology? I'm curious.

yeppers

 

[Lestat]

Well, I suppose if you could show what you're doing actually produces results, then your argument here might have some validity.

How successful have you been in getting people to conform to your ideology? I'm curious.

I'm not sure how results are needed to validate logical and rational though.

I'm not trying to get anyone to conform to anything, simply to think for themselves, question authority, its not an ideology at all, its something that should be a given for everyone.

Have people taken a hard look at themselves and their beliefs after talking to me, sure, I've had many long late night conversations with people from all walks of life and many of them have thanked me afterwards.

 

[Smurfy]

I'm not sure how results are needed to validate logical and rational though.

I'm not trying to get anyone to conform to anything, simply to think for themselves, question authority, its not an ideology at all, its something that should be a given for everyone.

Have people taken a hard look at themselves and their beliefs after talking to me, sure, I've had many long late night conversations with people from all walks of life and many of them have thanked me afterwards.

lol you are your own missionary.

 

[Lestat]

and smurfy, I'm just a little before my time, society might not be ready just yet to let go of the comfort of having everything you do or believe told to you, they are not ready to let go of the cmofort that religion brings to them.

I feel like one of the few people that was arguing that the world was round while the majority of people, including some very SMART people and very powerful people swore that it was flat. Think of how someone who knew the world was round would have been made fun of and ridiculed?

 

[Frisky]

I'm not sure how results are needed to validate logical and rational though.

I'm not trying to get anyone to conform to anything, simply to think for themselves, question authority, its not an ideology at all, its something that should be a given for everyone.

Have people taken a hard look at themselves and their beliefs after talking to me, sure, I've had many long late night conversations with people from all walks of life and many of them have thanked me afterwards.

If you would have posted one thing about racial issues, pics and shit about that it would have been stomped lower than dirt... yet you find the need over and over again to belittle religion.. (no matter what religion) If you don't believe then fine.. you don't believe. I find it very immature and childish and quite frankly disgusting to belittle those who believe in Jesus as our savior by posting such pics. Go freaking pick on red heads or football or baseball, leave all the rest alone. You simply just wanted drama and you got it.

 

[Lestat]

If you would have posted one thing about racial issues, pics and shit about that it would have been stomped lower than dirt... yet you find the need over and over again to belittle religion.. (no matter what religion) If you don't believe then fine.. you don't believe. I find it very immature and childish and quite frankly disgusting to belittle those who believe in Jesus as our savior by posting such pics. Go freaking pick on red heads or football or baseball, leave all the rest alone. You simply just wanted drama and you got it.

please explain to me how being a redhead, or a fan or player of football and/or baseball means you are an irrational thinker?

I'm not mocking religion, I'm mocking people who believe in something that they are told/taught in the absense of proof. I make fun of people who believe in "fate" as well.

 

[Phenom78]

how was creation an act of unconditional love?

to me, if the bible was true, creation would be the most selfish thing to do ever. create flawed beings that you KNOW will disobey you just so you can fuck around with them?

was the crucifiction planned by god, or was it the result of free will of men? I'd say the latter, just like the "fall" was. the whole fucking thing is a god damned joke.

To create beings to "fuck around with" implies a lack.

If the universe was created by a deity what can we reason from that supposition?

One that whereas the universe is dependent, the cause of its creation must be independent. That is to say if you want a fire you need various things to be present. Fuel, oxygen, a spark etc. Remove any of the three and you can't have a fire. If a deity is the source of creation, then he must by definition be complete in and of Himself.

Anger, need for entertainment, need for accalim are all qualities of a "dependent" being. It describes an entity that lacks something, and therefore must seek it out. But a dependent being can't be the source of all creation.

So the only motive left must be selfless. That is to say something that benefits Him not at all, because that presumes he could be added to. And if you can be added then it argues an an initial lack.

The most reasonable "selfless" motivation is selfless love.

It also esxplains free will. Love is once more an act that must be freely chosen. You can be forced to eat and not be any less well fed. You can be forced to obey. But you cannot be forced to love. You must possess free will to do so. If God created only automatons incapable of independent decision making then he could surround them with physical pleasures, but they could never give or truly receive love.

 

[Smurfy]

and smurfy, I'm just a little before my time, society might not be ready just yet to let go of the comfort of having everything you do or believe told to you, they are not ready to let go of the cmofort that religion brings to them.

I feel like one of the few people that was arguing that the world was round while the majority of people, including some very SMART people and very powerful people swore that it was flat. Think of how someone who knew the world was round would have been made fun of and ridiculed?

So you see yourself as some sort of visionary? That's cute


Go write a book and STFU already.

 

[Lestat]

To create beings to "fuck around with" implies a lack.

If the universe was created by a deity what can we reason from that supposition?

One that whereas the universe is dependent, the cause of its creation must be independent. That is to say if you want a fire you need various things to be present. Fuel, oxygen, a spark etc. Remove any of the three and you can't have a fire. If a deity is the source of creation, then he must by definition be complete in and of Himself.

Anger, need for entertainment, need for accalim are all qualities of a "dependent" being. It describes an entity that lacks something, and therefore must seek it out. But a dependent being can't be the source of all creation.

So the only motive left must be selfless. That is to say something that benefits Him not at all, because that presumes he could be added to. And if you can be added then it argues an an initial lack.

The most reasonable "selfless" motivation is selfless love.

It also esxplains free will. Love is once more an act that must be freely chosen. You can be forced to eat and not be any less well fed. You can be forced to obey. But you cannot be forced to love. You must possess free will to do so. If God created only automatons incapable of independent decision making then he could surround them with physical pleasures, but they could never give or truly receive love.

if I was the easily impressionable type, i'd say I'll take your word for it bro.

 

[Phenom78]

and smurfy, I'm just a little before my time, society might not be ready just yet to let go of the comfort of having everything you do or believe told to you, they are not ready to let go of the cmofort that religion brings to them.

I feel like one of the few people that was arguing that the world was round while the majority of people, including some very SMART people and very powerful people swore that it was flat. Think of how someone who knew the world was round would have been made fun of and ridiculed?

LOL

You imagine you invented atheism lol

It has been around thousands of years bro. It is hardly an original thought to suggest there is no God.

 

[Lestat]

LOL

You imagine you invented atheism lol

It has been around thousands of years bro. It is hardly an original thought to suggest there is no God.

I didn't invent anything, never said that, I'm just saying these beliefs are still before their time, always have been, things have changed, but slowly, and things are moving in a more positive direction i believe, but like i said befoer it will be many generation before we rid ourselfs of irrational belief.

 

[Lestat]

So you see yourself as some sort of visionary? That's cute


Go write a book and STFU already.

no i'm not a visonary, I wish.

and I am a decent writer, but am not talented enough to write an entire book.

this guy is really good though.
http://www.samharris.org/

 

[Frisky]

please explain to me how being a redhead, or a fan or player of football and/or baseball means you are an irrational thinker?

I'm not mocking religion, I'm mocking people who believe in something that they are told/taught in the absense of proof. I make fun of people who believe in "fate" as well.

If you don't 'believe' then fine lessy... leave it at that. We are all taught things in life, about cooking and cleaning and maintaing a family... its all each to their own. But when you walk over and tell someone that they are raising their child wrong because they exepect such and such in school or at home it is disrepectful. Just as religion, some of us are raised to believe that Jesus was our saviour. That is our belief... YOU have a different thought, that doesn't mean you have to constanly make cracks and rude pics about him non stop... because YOU don't beleive the same. This can trinkle in to ever aspect of being raised and how each person is raised. NO two people are alike. I'm not trying to be pissy, but I personally think the pic's were very distasteful and unwarrented. You have the free will to think as you wish, the free will to post as you wish, Just as I have the free will to say what I feel about said posts.

 

[Smurfy]

sam harris is the guy from Star Search in the 1980's, LeBro

 

[Lestat]

for frisky and smurfy:



With each passing year, do our religious beliefs conserve more and more of the data of human experience? If religion addresses a genuine sphere of understanding and human necessity, then it should be susceptible to progress; its doctrines should become more useful, rather than less. Progress in religion, as in other fields, would have to be a matter of present inquiry, not the mere reiteration of past doctrine. Whatever is true now should be discoverable now, and describable in terms that are not an outright affront to the rest of what we know about the world. By this measure, the entire project of religion seems perfectly backward. It cannot survive the changes that have come over us—culturally, technologically, and even ethically. Otherwise, there are few reasons to believe that we will survive
it.

Moderates do not want to kill anyone in the name of God, but they want us to keep using the word “God” as though we knew what we were talking about. And they do not want anything too critical said about people who really believe in the God of their fathers, because tolerance, perhaps above all else, is sacred. To speak plainly and truthfully about the state of our world—to say, for instance, that the Bible and the Koran both contain mountains of life-destroying gibberish—is antithetical to tolerance as moderates currently conceive it. But we can no longer afford the luxury of such political correctness. We must finally recognize the price we are paying to maintain the iconography of our ignorance.

 

[Smurfy]

nice copy/paste there, guy.

 

[Lestat]

If you don't 'believe' then fine lessy... leave it at that. We are all taught things in life, about cooking and cleaning and maintaing a family... its all each to their own. But when you walk over and tell someone that they are raising their child wrong because they exepect such and such in school or at home it is disrepectful. Just as religion, some of us are raised to believe that Jesus was our saviour. That is our belief... YOU have a different thought, that doesn't mean you have to constanly make cracks and rude pics about him non stop... because YOU don't beleive the same. This can trinkle in to ever aspect of being raised and how each person is raised. NO two people are alike. I'm not trying to be pissy, but I personally think the pic's were very distasteful and unwarrented. You have the free will to think as you wish, the free will to post as you wish, Just as I have the free will to say what I feel about said posts.

i respect your right to post whatever you wish

 

[Frisky]

for frisky and smurfy:



With each passing year, do our religious beliefs conserve more and more of the data of human experience? If religion addresses a genuine sphere of understanding and human necessity, then it should be susceptible to progress; its doctrines should become more useful, rather than less. Progress in religion, as in other fields, would have to be a matter of present inquiry, not the mere reiteration of past doctrine. Whatever is true now should be discoverable now, and describable in terms that are not an outright affront to the rest of what we know about the world. By this measure, the entire project of religion seems perfectly backward. It cannot survive the changes that have come over us—culturally, technologically, and even ethically. Otherwise, there are few reasons to believe that we will survive
it.

Moderates do not want to kill anyone in the name of God, but they want us to keep using the word “God” as though we knew what we were talking about. And they do not want anything too critical said about people who really believe in the God of their fathers, because tolerance, perhaps above all else, is sacred. To speak plainly and truthfully about the state of our world—to say, for instance, that the Bible and the Koran both contain mountains of life-destroying gibberish—is antithetical to tolerance as moderates currently conceive it. But we can no longer afford the luxury of such political correctness. We must finally recognize the price we are paying to maintain the iconography of our ignorance.

get off CNN

 

[Lestat]

The only reason anyone is “moderate” in matters of faith these days is that he has assimilated some of the fruits of the last two thousand years of human thought (democratic politics, scientific advancement on every front, concern for human rights, an end to cultural and geographic isolation, etc.). The doors leading out of scriptural literalism do not open from the inside. The moderation we see among nonfundamentalists is not some sign that faith itself has evolved; it is, rather, the product of the many hammer blows of modernity that have exposed certain tenets of faith to doubt. Not the least among these developments has been the emergence of our tendency to value evidence and to be convinced by a proposition to the degree that there is evidence for it. Even most fundamentalists live by the lights of reason in this regard; it is just that their minds seem to have been partitioned to accommodate the profligate truth claims of their faith. Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence whatsoever.

 

[Frisky]

delete your copy and paste button ASAP

 

[Lestat]

its no CNN, they are Sam Harris excerpts.

but your response is pretty much what I'd expect, no one likes to be told they are wrong, let alone be shown how exactly.

 

[Frisky]

its no CNN, they are Sam Harris excerpts.

but your response is pretty much what I'd expect, no one likes to be told they are wrong, let alone be shown how exactly.

I don't expect everyone to believe what I believe, but I still in the same breath will say the its rude to make fun of someone elses beliefs. Thats what you were doing. I don't make posts about any other religion making fun of any of them ever. A religion is something we are born into and raised with... if you don't believe then fine, but to sit there constantly like you do and have some snide comment to make about Jesus or God is rude to those that do believe. What is right or what is wrong is all individual... Who's to say?

 

[Lestat]

I don't expect everyone to believe what I believe, but I still in the same breath will say the its rude to make fun of someone elses beliefs. Thats what you were doing. I don't make posts about any other religion making fun of any of them ever. A religion is something we are born into and raised with... if you don't believe then fine, but to sit there constantly like you do and have some snide comment to make about Jesus or God is rude to those that do believe. What is right or what is wrong is all individual... Who's to say?

i agree, religion is something we are born into and raised with.

and that needs to change

religion has far too many negative effects for us to continue to support it and allow it to thrive. its thought and behavior control. You don't think its negative? Well you must not be a homosexual, talk to a homosexual who isn't allowed to marry his life partner legally, or who has been told he's a sinner and going to hell for his sexual preference.

That's just one of thousands of examples of why I will continue to "make fun" of irrational beliefs.

 

[Smurfy]

Lestat - do you go around IRL and preach your excerpts to people you know, and people you dont know? And since you feel so strongly (hey, that's great!), do you screen potential g/f's for what their religious beliefs are? Do they have to ascribe to the same school of thought as you do? If they don't, do you argue that they are blind to the truth and lacking common sense? And if so, how does that work out for you?

 

[Frisky]

i agree, religion is something we are born into and raised with.

and that needs to change

religion has far too many negative effects for us to continue to support it and allow it to thrive. its thought and behavior control. You don't think its negative? Well you must not be a homosexual, talk to a homosexual who isn't allowed to marry his life partner legally, or who has been told he's a sinner and going to hell for his sexual preference.

That's just one of thousands of examples of why I will continue to "make fun" of irrational beliefs.

No I don't think it to be negative, but I am also not a over the top religious freak. I don't walk around quoting the bible or calling 'this or that' a sinner because they believe different than me. I believe in God and Jesus as our savior but that doesn't mean that I believe in all the biblical writings that were interpreted. I voiced my opinion because I believe that making fun of a man that died for us on a cross for our sins and all that believe... no matter what religion... was very distasteful.

 

[Phenom78]

its no CNN, they are Sam Harris excerpts.

but your response is pretty much what I'd expect, no one likes to be told they are wrong, let alone be shown how exactly.

Brohaim

You and Sam both argue that faith can't be proven. Maybe it would help to define faith for you.

faith:Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence

Where is the argument?


But to answer his analogies.

If you tell a person there spouse is cheating on them they would demand proof commiserate to the extent it contradicts there preconceived notions of the individuals fidelity. It likely wouldnt require much evidence to convince Hillary Clinton of such a charge. It is also a knowable quantity. That is to say provable.

The same with the yogurt analogy. To claim an item does something completely in objection to all known qualities it possesses would require evidence of same.

Seperately no one knows the answer to waht or who created the universe. So irrationally, and without evidence, Sam asks us to have faith that one of the possible answers can be dismissed without proof, or is somehow less valid than any other.

 

[Lestat]

Brohaim

You and Sam both argue that faith can't be proven. Maybe it would help to define faith for you.

faith:Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence

Where is the argument?


But to answer his analogies.

If you tell a person there spouse is cheating on them they would demand proof commiserate to the extent it contradicts there preconceived notions of the individuals fidelity. It likely wouldnt require much evidence to convince Hillary Clinton of such a charge. It is also a knowable quantity. That is to say provable.

The same with the yogurt analogy. To claim an item does something completely in objection to all known qualities it possesses would require evidence of same.

Seperately no one knows the answer to waht or who created the universe. So irrationally, and without evidence, Sam asks us to have faith that one of the possible answers can be dismissed without proof, or is somehow less valid than any other.

not saying it is any less valid than the other, how can something that is unknown be any more or less valid than something else that is unknown?

the idea here is, lets stop creating multi billion dollar organizations (mormon church) and telling people what they should and shouldn't do with their lives BASED SOLELY ON AN UNKNOWN THAT CANNOT BE PROVEN.

 

[Lestat]

Lestat - do you go around IRL and preach your excerpts to people you know, and people you dont know? And since you feel so strongly (hey, that's great!), do you screen potential g/f's for what their religious beliefs are? Do they have to ascribe to the same school of thought as you do? If they don't, do you argue that they are blind to the truth and lacking common sense? And if so, how does that work out for you?

To answer your question.

Yes, I've had this same discussion dozens of times in real life with people who believe the same way I do, and with people who go to church every single week and are very devout.

And yes, faith, or I should say LACK of faith is one of the first things I screen for with women. I will not get into a serious relationship with someone who claims to be a Christian or subscribes to any western religion. I had a really bad experience with my first love and learned that the topic of religion is a deal breaker for me relationship wise. I need someone is more or less sees eye to eye with me on that issue, especially if I plan on having children with the person.

 

[Frisky]

not saying it is any less valid than the other, how can something that is unknown be any more or less valid than something else that is unknown?

the idea here is, lets stop creating multi billion dollar organizations (mormon church) and telling people what they should and shouldn't do with their lives BASED SOLELY ON AN UNKNOWN THAT CANNOT BE PROVEN.

The Idea here is to ALLOW people to believe what they want to believe. Who are you to decide what is right or wrong? Just becuase you don't believe in XXX doesen't mean you have to constantly belittle XXX does it? Leave it alone and move on...

 

[Smurfy]

To answer your question.

Yes, I've had this same discussion dozens of times in real life with people who believe the same way I do, and with people who go to church every single week and are very devout.

And yes, faith, or I should say LACK of faith is one of the first things I screen for with women. I will not get into a serious relationship with someone who claims to be a Christian or subscribes to any western religion. I had a really bad experience with my first love and learned that the topic of religion is a deal breaker for me relationship wise. I need someone is more or less sees eye to eye with me on that issue, especially if I plan on having children with the person.

Is your current g/f an atheist? Has she read Sam Harris' book and is she is the same frame of mind?

 

[Phenom78]

not saying it is any less valid than the other, how can something that is unknown be any more or less valid than something else that is unknown?

the idea here is, lets stop creating multi billion dollar organizations (mormon church) and telling people what they should and shouldn't do with their lives BASED SOLELY ON AN UNKNOWN THAT CANNOT BE PROVEN.

Because ultimately I don't believe that matter created itself. Nor do I ascribe divine properties to it and imagine that it has simply existed eternally. I also reason patterns and complexity in existence to great for chance or randomness.

But ultimately I suspect I dont view my faith as the "restrictive" doctrinaire constraint that I imagine you were once indoctrinated with and rebelled against.

I imagine you see religion as a bunch of things you cant do. To the contrary I see your beliefs as not only more constraining, but ultimately less rewarding. That is irrespective of if there is or isn't a God.

 

[Lestat]

The Idea here is to ALLOW people to believe what they want to believe. Who are you to decide what is right or wrong? Just becuase you don't believe in XXX doesen't mean you have to constantly belittle XXX does it? Leave it alone and move on...

So you are saying we should allow people to believe whatever they want?

So people should be allowed to believe that sacrificing children will lead to a good afterlife? Interesting concept.


Doctors, can they be allowed to believe that boring a hole in your head to relieve pressure is an effective cure for headaches? Or that fever is a sign on demonic posession?

think about what you are saying really. Do we really just allow people to believe, and worse than that, TEACH INNOCENT CHILDREN anything that that want?

 

[Frisky]

Because ultimately I don't believe that matter created itself. Nor do I ascribe divine properties to it and imagine that it has simply existed eternally. I also reason patterns and complexity in existence to great for chance or randomness.

But ultimately I suspect I dont view my faith as the "restrictive" doctrinaire constraint that I imagine you were once indoctrinated with and rebelled against.

I imagine you see religion as a bunch of things you cant do. To the contrary I see your beliefs as not only more constraining, but ultimately less rewarding. That is irrespective of if there is or isn't a God.

in other words


stfu

LOL

 

[Spartacus]

this is like a bikinimom thread

 

[Lestat]

Because ultimately I don't believe that matter created itself. Nor do I ascribe divine properties to it and imagine that it has simply existed eternally. I also reason patterns and complexity in existence to great for chance or randomness.

But ultimately I suspect I dont view my faith as the "restrictive" doctrinaire constraint that I imagine you were once indoctrinated with and rebelled against.

I imagine you see religion as a bunch of things you cant do. To the contrary I see your beliefs as not only more constraining, but ultimately less rewarding. That is irrespective of if there is or isn't a God.

I used to see religion as a bunch of dos and don'ts, but that is an admittedly short sighted view.

I also concede that religion has many POSITIVE aspects to it, MANY. My belief is that we can do away with irrational belief, basically religion, but preserve the positive aspects of it.

I am living proof of that, I subscribe to no religion, yet I am just as "good" if not better than many believers! I also understand that I am more educated and intellgent than most (not being cocky here, just saying my education and IQ level puts me in the top 90%+ of the earth's population) and many people need something more ridged and structured like religion or else they probably would have no incentive to be good. The thought of an enternity in a firey hell is certainly a big deterrant for many people! I don't need that to keep from stealing and murdering though.

Now I see religion as a big hindrance to self exploration, to the formal study of the "spiritual" side of human consciousness.

ALL humans are capabable of a "spiritual" feeling, some to a greater extent then others. Look at all the relgions throughout the world and throughout history, you will see many similarities and common themes. How is this possible? Are they are coming from the same higher power? no. they are all created by PEOPLE and people are more similar than not.

Unfortunately each religion tells you how you are to get your spriritual experience, usually through worship, prayer, singing and the like, but I think we can do a LOT better than that. I'd like to see more progress made in this area of study and this will never happen while religion has such a grip over human thought and behavior.

 

[Frisky]

So you are saying we should allow people to believe whatever they want?

So people should be allowed to believe that sacrificing children will lead to a good afterlife? Interesting concept.


Doctors, can they be allowed to believe that boring a hole in your head to relieve pressure is an effective cure for headaches? Or that fever is a sign on demonic posession?

think about what you are saying really. Do we really just allow people to believe, and worse than that, TEACH INNOCENT CHILDREN anything that that want?

Believing that sex before marriage and believing that you should sacrafice a kid is to completley different things Lestat. Don't be a damn moron now.

We can't stop anyone from what they are born and raised to believe, no matter how we feel about it. I don't agree with most religions... I was born and raised catholic and recently converted to christianity (which I've noticed you have a very distaste for) I am not a outspoken christian, but I practice some beliefs and attend the church. Religion is what you make of it... It only takes one bad seed to ward off people and one good seed to bring in people... You can't judge the faith by what you read or see on TV you have to experience it on your own and then practice it on your own. I firmly believe if you roll in a faith and become a mock of all of those around you then you are just a puppet trying to fit in... but if you learn and practice have your own opinion of what the bible says then you are a better person. I am considered Christian but my actual denomination is considered nondemonination. I interpet my bible as I read it the way I INTERPRET IT. I am not now nor ever gonna be influenced by an outside source here nor there.

 

[Lestat]

Believing that sex before marriage and believing that you should sacrafice a kid is to completley different things Lestat. Don't be a damn moron now.

We can't stop anyone from what they are born and raised to believe, no matter how we feel about it. I don't agree with most religions... I was born and raised catholic and recently converted to christianity (which I've noticed you have a very distaste for) I am not a outspoken christian, but I practice some beliefs and attend the church. Religion is what you make of it... It only takes one bad seed to ward off people and one good seed to bring in people... You can't judge the faith by what you read or see on TV you have to experience it on your own and then practice it on your own. I firmly believe if you roll in a faith and become a mock of all of those around you then you are just a puppet trying to fit in... but if you learn and practice have your own opinion of what the bible says then you are a better person. I am considered Christian but my actual denomination is considered nondemonination. I interpet my bible as I read it the way I INTERPRET IT. I am not now nor ever gonna be influenced by an outside source here nor there.

HOw are they different Frisky? You do know that human being HAVE BEEN SACRIFICED to appease higher powers right? Just because that isn't what you grew up with doesn't mean it does not happen.

If you want to teach children not to have sex before marriage, fine! Tell them that by doing that they will never get pregnant when they don't want to, and they won't get STDs and such. But don't tell them its because "God" says its a sin! Wtf?? Why do people need that extra incentive?

I was raised religiously and I can totally understand where you are coming from. There were times when I first came to the realization that I did in fact only believe what I did because it was how I was raised that I wished i could just undo what I had learned, stick my head in the sand and live the life I used to. But you can't go back.

I was born and raised into a faith that I now mock, so people can change, but you are right, it has to come from within.