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permanent testicle atrophy is a myth!

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Ashamed

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unless you can prove otherwise...

So form an orderly line and list the scientific evidence below that proves this.

Whilst you are at it.. please list all the scientific evidence that indicates that cannabis lessenes testosterone and causes gyno...

and show me the WMD!

Thank you.
 
It's morning here....

Now answer the challenge...

It's time to explode some prevailing myths.
 
Can I have someone that speaks english and has a brain answer my challenge please...
 
Thats quite a load of questions there bud, and none of which are easily answered. I haven't the slightest clue on the truth of either, just saying that that is a lot to ask and you expect US to do all the work to prove you wrong? If we knew for sure, there would be alot less worry about testicular atrophy being permanent. Just my .02cents.

Chris
 
London Evening Standard, July 14, 2003 for more info: www. thisislondon.co.uk/
Cannabis Danger To Men

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Isabel Oakeshott, Evening Standard
Men are today warned that smoking cannabis could affect their fertility. Scientists have uncovered new evidence that the drug upsets the male reproductive system.
They fear it could reduce the amount of testosterone - which plays a key role in sperm production - produced by the body. It may have a serious impact on the body's natural hormones and they want more research to assess the risk.
The warning comes in a study by scientists at Aberdeen University, who examined the impact of cannabis on male mice.

The animals, whose reproductive systems are similar to those of humans, were injected with cannabinoids - cannabis derivatives - to see if they changed natural messages from the brain to the testes regulating testosterone production.

Because the testes also produce testosterone of their own accord, as well as reacting to brain signals, the research team also looked at whether cannabis affected this function.

The results suggest that the drug has a significant impact on both processes.

Dr Paul Fowler - from the university's department of obstetrics and gynaecology - who led the research, said: "Our study suggests that cannabis interferes with the hormones needed for reproduction.

"It appears to affect the way the testes make and release testosterone, and has an impact on the way the brain regulates production of the hormone."

The team found that in mice, cannabis may actually boost the amount of testosterone produced as a result of brain signals, but it reduces the amount produced by the testes. Dr Fowler said: "These two things could add together to have a serious negative impact on testosterone production."

The research, to be unveiled at a major fertility conference in Aberdeen today, reignites the debate about the potential dangers of so-called soft drugs.

Cannabis is the most widely used drug in the United Kingdom after alcohol and cigarettes. Home Office figures suggest that a third of all 15-year-olds have tried it. Experts estimate it is responsible for 30,000 deaths in the UK every year. Last month, it emerged that cannabis users are seven times more likely to suffer from mental illness, triggering fears of an epidemic of schizophrenia.

The United Nations drugs watchdog has warned that the Government's "softly, softly" approach is putting the health of a generation at risk. Critics say the decision to downgrade it to a Class C drug has sent out the wrong message, encouraging people to think it is safe. Studies show that nine out of 10 children believe it is legal.

Scientists have speculated that falling sperm counts among European men are due to the surge in the use of recreational drugs. Previous studies on mice suggest that women who smoke marijuana during pregnancy risk damaging their baby's reproductive system.

Source: London Evening Standard (UK)
Author: Isabel Oakeshott, Evening Standard
Published: July 14, 2003
Copyright: 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
 
3) NEW STUDY FINDS POT DOESN'T LOWER TESTOSTERONE


A new study by Dr. Robert Block at the University of

Iowa disputes the commonly held notion that marijuana alters

the level of testosterone and other sex hormones.

The study contradicted a widely publicized 1974 study

by Dr. R.C. Kolodony, which reported decreased testosterone

levels in men who smoked marijuana chronically.

The U. of Iowa study found that chronic marijuana use

had no effect on testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle

stimulating hormone, prolactin and cortisol in men or women.

Noting that six other studies had failed to show

lowered testosterone levels in men, Dr. Block concluded: "It

appears that marijuana, even heavy use of the kind that's

typical in the United States, doesn't alter testosterone levels."

However, he cautioned that heavy use might have other

adverse effects, including "possible effects on reproductive

function and mild, selective cognitive impairments associated

with heavy, chronic use."

Block's study is published in Drug and Alcohol

Dependence, Vol. 28: 121-8 (1991).
 
You're cited study was 1991, my study was published 7/14/2003 in either case studies are only as good as the researchers doing them. Nither study list the criteria, so who is to know if there even valid. Its appearent that you like to smoke pot and intend to continue, so the point is moot anyhow.
 
your study was on mice brains... mine was on humans... date is irrelevant.. Have medical research methodolgy, cannabis or human beings advanced much since 1991? Not really...

I smoke everyday... my last testost' results when off cycle by some months was higher than normal range... it's anecdotal of course..

Anyway, I am far more interested in whether there has ever been much cause to worry regarding the irreversibility of steroid caused testicle atrophy.
 
Regarding the effects of marijuana, there are numerous studies that say that it does indeed lower testosterone levels. However, the in fully developed adult subjects, the test lowers for about 24 hours then returns to baseline.

The debate rages on regarding developing children who smoke pot. Some theorists believe that those kids who are chronic smokers of pot will have a lower basal testosterone concentration than had they not smoked. However, few valid scientists are running kids through such expirements.

I've never seen anything regarding pot and permanent testicular atrophy. However, gyno is a very frequently cited side effect - that is also widely disputed.






Now then, all the marijuana stuff aside, your first question was in regard to permanent testicle atrophy period. Specifically, you believe it is a myth unless we can prove otherwise.

There is no doubt that testicular atrophy, chronic and/or permanent, is real. Ask any medical doctor. There are a myriad of reasons and causes possible. "Proving" this to you is rather silly as it is so well established.


Now I see that you have asked specifically in regard to steroid use. First, you must understand that the quality and quantity of research regarding the use of steroids by healthy athletes is very, very low.

However, anecdotal data supports the occasion of permanent testicular atrophy to some degree or another. In addition, given what we already know about the nature of human gladular tissue and chronic atrophy in a clinical setting, it is logical to conclude that the acute transient testicular atrophy we see outright with steroid use will contribute to some degree of permanent atrophy. Given what we know, duration would be a big part of the equation.
 
What you believe or what Lawsaver thinks is irrelevant.

..and Silent Method produces no references to back up his warblings... no facts or refernces just myth and opinion..

I started this thread asking for proof.. instead I get more bullshit to add to all the other bullshit I'd collected already....

Please provide proof that steroid use causes permanent testicle atrophy: Provide it here: After the: No bullshit after the: Just fact after the :
 
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Ashamed said:
What you believe or what Lawsaver thinks is irrelevant.

I started this thread asking for proof.. instead I get more bullshit to add to all the other bullshit I'd collected already....

Please provide proof that steroid use causes permanent testicle atrophy: Provide it here: After the: No bullshit after the: Just fact after the :

Are you stupid bro?? In this context, Lawnsaver isn't "thinking" anything, he's got a permanently shrunken nut. Do you get it?? Is that not proof enough for you chief? Or, do you need a study that shows a mouse's balls shrunk up after 100grams of test a week for a year?

Wow. :(
 
Stillgoing said:


Are you stupid bro?? In this context, Lawnsaver isn't "thinking" anything, he's got a permanently shrunken nut. Do you get it?? Is that not proof enough for you chief? Or, do you need a study that shows a mouse's balls shrunk up after 100grams of test a week for a year?

Wow. :(

Have you seen, sucked and measured Lawsavers balls?

Are you stupid bro?
 
Do you believe in elfs? Show me one peer reviewed, researched, scientific study that proves there aren't any elfs.

This is nonsense. You're obviously one of these people who won't believe anything, regardless of how apparent, obvious or prevelant it may be, until you see a study that confirms it. I think you want this board. www.bodybuilding.com
 
Oh look.... it's Nelson 2 books Montana

Is that your real name or stage name? Try showing some humility and argue the points that I have raised or fuck off back under your rock. To clarify.. is there any peer review evidence that suggests short or long term steroid use causes PERMANENT testicular atrophy.

I think you want this board:

www.nelsonmontanaandhiscutandpastebooks.com
 
Ashamed said:
Oh look.... it's Nelson 2 books Montana

Is that your real name or stage name? Try showing some humility and argue the points that I have raised or fuck off back under your rock. To clarify.. is there any peer review evidence that suggests short or long term steroid use causes PERMANENT testicular atrophy.

I think you want this board:

www.nelsonmontanaandhiscutandpastebooks.com

Further proof that you don't know what you're talking about. If there's one thing even my staunchest critics will admit, is that I never cut and paste.

The point has been made and clarified. It happens. But obvioulsy that isn't enough for you. You know, there aren't any studies which show that a combination of EQ and d-bol grows muscle. So I guess it doesn't , huh?
 
You have clarified that you have an ego and can flame lamely... you have not clarified or given evidence indicating that perm testicular atrophy occurs.
 
from my own experience, pot=catabolisis
lack of oxygen, stress when getting down, low activity of the muscle cells, contaminated blood.
yet i like the feeling once in a while.
 
Pot might be or might not be bad for you BUT you can count on the fact that all the smoke that gets pulled into your lungs is NOT. Cancer anyone?
 
Ashamed:

This thread had a great potential for some wonderful debate, discussion, and thoughtful insights from our members...

You flushed it dude. You shit right in the middle of your own thread. Your conduct is disapointing - exactly the kind of closed minded offensive bullshit we do not need on this board.
 
Silent Method said:
Ashamed:

This thread had a great potential for some wonderful debate, discussion, and thoughtful insights from our members...

You flushed it dude. You shit right in the middle of your own thread. Your conduct is disapointing - exactly the kind of closed minded offensive bullshit we do not need on this board.

Agreed. I was very interested in this thread when I first saw it, now I don't think a good honest (nicely put) answer will be given.
 
Silent Method said:
Ashamed:

This thread had a great potential for some wonderful debate, discussion, and thoughtful insights from our members...

You flushed it dude. You shit right in the middle of your own thread. Your conduct is disapointing - exactly the kind of closed minded offensive bullshit we do not need on this board.

That's what I was thinking...This thread had good potential, but was wrecked with the incessant flaming from the very childish attitude exhibited by Ashamed...Nelson's points in this were as good as yours...Not everything in life has been "proven" with double bind placebo based scientific studies...but that doesn not mean certain aspects are not true. How do you know that the moon is really up in the sky...because you can see it?...How do you know its not a reflective illusion perpetutated by some alien life force to make you think it is there...(Can you disprove that with a scientific study)
 
this thread was ruined by the thread starter...

negative karma would not be a bad idea.. or a mod locking/deleting the thread as well... this just wastes space..

we had some of the more knowledgable bros ready to discuss this and it was ruined by flames...
 
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