peeps with (former) shoulder trouble

[SoreArms]

It seems that just about every lift that involves shoulder movement makes my shoulder joints hurt. I've started warming up my rotator cuff before lifts (I was told to warm it up by waving my arm in a wind mill motion with a 5 lb weight, is that enough?) and also started taking glucosamine but it doesn't seem to help, atleast not yet. What did you do to help you get over the pain? Am I just going to have to avoid certain lifts?

ibuprophin is going to eventually kill my liver

 

[awittyusername]

I F-ed my shoulder pretty bad. I had to take 6 months off and someday will need surgery. I switched everything to dumbell. Nothing heavy then worked my way up. It doesn't bother me anymore.

 

[JakeB]

i also have a fuckin up shoulder, only way to fix it is by surgery. but as awitty said, i started using a lot of dumbells and worked my way back up, occasionally it hurts like hell, like when im tryin to hit the rear head of my delt -- comes out of place every once in a while still and hurts, but its much better than it was

 

[jerkbox]

i would start by going to a doc and finding out what the problem is.

 

[RADAR]

get some "stop pain" Best stuff i have found yet.
Its a tropical spray available at Eckerds,CVS ,Wal Mart..etc.

You will need to add jello gellatin to your diet (For joints)
My fav is strawberry mixed with a mixed fruit cup.
I have a bowl every day after lunch, and no longer have joint shoulder pain.


RADAR

 

[Lestat]

I'm in the same boat bro.

Seems very common.

My physical therapist said to do warm ups.. side to side motion with some resistance using the cross over cables.

Still, it hurts when I do heavy bench or shoulder presses. One shoulder screams, the other mildly sore.

When I take over a week off or when I go light (185lbs or less on bench) it feels ok.

When I start getting to 225+ that is when it really kills me.

Sucks, I really wish I could fix it, I want to make some more progress on bench.

I take glucosamin, chondroti, and MSN. Not sure if it helps or not though. Expesnive shit.

 

[marshallmadman]

I found that a lot of my trouble came from the way I was sleeping on my shoulder. I sleep on my side with my arm extended straight out. It puts a lot of stress on the joint.

 

[Smurfy]

Is the pain only during lifts? How long does it persist afterwards>? Is it a dull throbbing or a sharp shooting pain in the joint?

Im trying to diagnose you here.

 

[H_T_]

the only time i ever hurt my shoulder was when i over extended the range of motion. so, i do not do dips or declines. it's too easy to take those movements too far.

 

[Lestat]

Is the pain only during lifts? How long does it persist afterwards>? Is it a dull throbbing or a sharp shooting pain in the joint?

Im trying to diagnose you here.

It hurts most during lifts, but persists afterwards when moving the joint.

its a deep pain, not sharp, but not dull..

 

[bignate73]

how much rotator work do you do besides the warmups you just added?

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i would start by going to a doc and finding out what the problem is.

do what this guy says.

i ignored a shoulder problem for 2 months, and then tried to continue to ignore it for a month afterwards. i had an AC Strain and could see the lump at the end of the collar bone.

i've been out of the gym since mid-September because of it. got a shot in the shoulder 2 weeks ago and the lump is almost gone, pain is gone too from what i've noticed. still popping a lot though, so i'm kinda hesitant to stress it. one more week and i'll see if i can give it some real light work.

 

[Choderboy]

i screwed up my ac joint and it took a month to recover

 

[milo hobgoblin]

I started switching hands.. worked wonders and my symmetry is better.

plus my left hand isnt so jealous anymore.

 

[spongebob]

It seems that just about every lift that involves shoulder movement makes my shoulder joints hurt. I've started warming up my rotator cuff before lifts (I was told to warm it up by waving my arm in a wind mill motion with a 5 lb weight, is that enough?) and also started taking glucosamine but it doesn't seem to help, atleast not yet. What did you do to help you get over the pain? Am I just going to have to avoid certain lifts?

ibuprophin is going to eventually kill my liver

sorearms, taking glucosamine or using pain relief ointments or going to the doctor wont help.

but this will, every exercise you do that involves the rotator cuff, flat bench, incline, shoulder presses will put too much stress on your rotator.

from now on try this. on all those lifts, pull your elbows in towards your ribcage. this puts the rotator in its natural range of motion. rotating, instead of your arms flared out and the rotator not rotating.

lighten up just a hair on your wieghts till you get the new technique down.

i promise it will disappear.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[Lestat]

sorearms, taking glucosamine or using pain relief ointments or going to the doctor wont help.

but this will, every exercise you do that involves the rotator cuff, flat bench, incline, shoulder presses will put too much stress on your rotator.

from now on try this. on all those lifts, pull your elbows in towards your ribcage. this puts the rotator in its natural range of motion. rotating, instead of your arms flared out and the rotator not rotating.

lighten up just a hair on your wieghts till you get the new technique down.

i promise it will disappear.



__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

I'll try this next week when I am back in my lifting routine. This week is cardio only.

 

[SoreArms]

how much rotator work do you do besides the warmups you just added?

none, have any you'd like to suggest?

 

[spongebob]

I'll try this next week when I am back in my lifting routine. This week is cardio only.

i had the same problem for years, then poof! gone. thank god. now no more 'taking it easy' on chest day or that smelly creme my ol lady hates.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[SoreArms]

flat bench, dips, pull ups, shoulder press, upright rows, etc..... all hurt

It's a pain in my joints not my muscle and it persists for a couple of days depending on how soon after I do lifts that stress the shoulder.

 

[Lestat]

flat bench, dips, pull ups, shoulder press, upright rows, etc..... all hurt

It's a pain in my joints not my muscle and it persists for a couple of days depending on how soon after I do lifts that stress the shoulder.

exact same for me

 

[superqt4u2nv]

My shoulder is facked too....

 

[spongebob]

flat bench, dips, pull ups, shoulder press, upright rows, etc..... all hurt

It's a pain in my joints not my muscle and it persists for a couple of days depending on how soon after I do lifts that stress the shoulder.

doesnt matter, but if you choose not to listen, then continue living with pain.





__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[chesty]

I had frayed cartilidge in both of mine and had to have ortho. Now I am good to go.

 

[cmdubs]

I tucked the elbows on inclines last night, felt no pain.

I'm going to start working on my cuff strength too. There is a thread with a link to some cuff excercises in the training forum now.

Depending on the angle of the lifts I get different pain sensations.

Flat: Sharp pain in the back of my shoulder that feels like it goes into my upper back.

Incline: More of a burning sensation that tends to travel down my forearms. The pain isn't bad enough to stop me from doing it. Irritating though.

Overheads: Sharp pain in the back of the shoulder. It doesn't radiate here, just seems to be localized in the shoulder and is sore for days after the workout.

 

[Lestat]

I tucked the elbows on inclines last night, felt no pain.

I'm going to start working on my cuff strength too. There is a thread with a link to some cuff excercises in the training forum now.

Depending on the angle of the lifts I get different pain sensations.

Flat: Sharp pain in the back of my shoulder that feels like it goes into my upper back.

Incline: More of a burning sensation that tends to travel down my forearms. The pain isn't bad enough to stop me from doing it. Irritating though.

Overheads: Sharp pain in the back of the shoulder. It doesn't radiate here, just seems to be localized in the shoulder and is sore for days after the workout.

WTF a spongebob alter?

 

[cmdubs]

WTF a spongebob alter?

No.

I tried to quote part of his post but it got messed up so I deleted it all.

 

[bignate73]

I tucked the elbows on inclines last night, felt no pain.

I'm going to start working on my cuff strength too. There is a thread with a link to some cuff excercises in the training forum now.

Depending on the angle of the lifts I get different pain sensations.

Flat: Sharp pain in the back of my shoulder that feels like it goes into my upper back.

Incline: More of a burning sensation that tends to travel down my forearms. The pain isn't bad enough to stop me from doing it. Irritating though.

Overheads: Sharp pain in the back of the shoulder. It doesn't radiate here, just seems to be localized in the shoulder and is sore for days after the workout.

i tuck on all presses. elbows flared is a recipe for rotator cuff soup...

 

[Smurfy]

is the pain more prominent in one shoulder? or is it pretty much equal in both?

 

[SoreArms]

is the pain more prominent in one shoulder? or is it pretty much equal in both?

for me, it's equal in both

 

[superqt4u2nv]

is the pain more prominent in one shoulder? or is it pretty much equal in both?

My right shoulder always hurts more.

 

[-SD-]

spongebob: Ive had two operations on my rotator cuff or related and I will try your technique but I wanted to make sure I understand correctly. Do I start at the bottom of the press with elbows tucked to ribs and rotate them out to the side as Im lifting the weight? Does my grip width change at all or is there any specific grip width needed (i.e. goal post width)? thanks

 

[Rex]

My right shoulder is absolute shit. Years of contact hockey and wear and tear on the damn thing developed a mighty SLAP (don't remember what the acronym stands for) tear in it. I need surgery to remove, and repair the damage done to it, but hockey season is about to start, followed by softball season. Sometime this year I'll get it operated on. It's a 4 month recovery though. Trying to plan it so I don't miss any sports.

The biggest bitch about it though is that my PFT consists of pull ups. Obviously my shoulder can't take it which leads to less pull ups, which leads to a lower score therefore making it harder for me to get promoted.

 

[bignate73]

of the people complaining about shoulder pain, how many of you do specific rotator work....and what is it?

 

[-SD-]

of the people complaining about shoulder pain, how many of you do specific rotator work....and what is it?

None, but Ive already had two surgeries so shouldnt that have fixed me? I wouldnt think a bunch of rubber band work and naprosyn would fix me when an orthopaedic surgeon couldnt, twice. Im basically trying to work out with this problem the best I can without further aggravating it because I dont think a third operation will do any good when the first two didnt. Unless you have any hard fast suggestions.

 

[chesty]

I don't, but then my rotators never bothered me. I do some, but not very often.

 

[anthrax]

of the people complaining about shoulder pain, how many of you do specific rotator work....and what is it?

Twice a week

2 exercises
4 sets of 10

External Rotation
L-laterals w/ elbow on an incline bench

After 6 months it still hurts, mostly when doing inclines and flat bench press
Istopped most shoulders movements and dips

 

[Rex]

of the people complaining about shoulder pain, how many of you do specific rotator work....and what is it?

Went to physical therapy and did some band exercises for 2 months. The therapist told me off the bat it wouldn't make the pain go away, and that I'll need surgery. Basicly I'm just biding my time.

 

[bignate73]

do most of you bench elbows flared or do you tuck them? a big one for perpetuating shoulder pain.
do you have access to someone who could rub your back? (i know this sounds weird) but you probably have some trigger points in or around your rotator cuff. infraspinatus most directly.

 

[-SD-]

do most of you bench elbows flared or do you tuck them? a big one for perpetuating shoulder pain.
do you have access to someone who could rub your back? (i know this sounds weird) but you probably have some trigger points in or around your rotator cuff. infraspinatus most directly.

My elbows have always been wide since thats the best way to work the pecs I thought. Didnt know elbow position would make that big of a difference, maybe I ll try it since I ve got nothing to lose.

 

[cmdubs]

do most of you bench elbows flared or do you tuck them? a big one for perpetuating shoulder pain.
do you have access to someone who could rub your back? (i know this sounds weird) but you probably have some trigger points in or around your rotator cuff. infraspinatus most directly.

Infra what???

How often do you think rotator work should be done....once a week like other muscles or more??

 

[bignate73]

2x specifically, perhaps indirect work. i dont prescribe to the once a week muscle training principle.

 

[spongebob]

none, have any you'd like to suggest?

your rotator cuffs hurt everyday and you wanna do more rotator cuff work?

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

I tucked the elbows on inclines last night, felt no pain.

I'm going to start working on my cuff strength too. There is a thread with a link to some cuff excercises in the training forum now.

Depending on the angle of the lifts I get different pain sensations.

Flat: Sharp pain in the back of my shoulder that feels like it goes into my upper back.

Incline: More of a burning sensation that tends to travel down my forearms. The pain isn't bad enough to stop me from doing it. Irritating though.

Overheads: Sharp pain in the back of the shoulder. It doesn't radiate here, just seems to be localized in the shoulder and is sore for days after the workout.

you can tuck your elbows in on your flat bench, incline, decline and you need to especially do it on overhead presses, even moreso if you use as straight bar.

limit your cuff conditioning, you are already working them on alot of excercises. i found that once i tucked my elbows in the problem ceased to exist and sometimes too much conditioning work word hurt.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[anthrax]

What about chin-ups ?

It seems they put a lot of stress on my shoulders/rot. cuff

 

[spongebob]

spongebob: Ive had two operations on my rotator cuff or related and I will try your technique but I wanted to make sure I understand correctly. Do I start at the bottom of the press with elbows tucked to ribs and rotate them out to the side as Im lifting the weight? Does my grip width change at all or is there any specific grip width needed (i.e. goal post width)? thanks

you shouldnt have to change grip width. although im 6' i use a close grip on most presses. but it shouldnt matter.

when you grip the bar, flat/incline/decline/military press i always start with my elbows in. now there not gonna be touching your ribs but just start getting use to pulling them in. you may have to go a little lighter untill you get use to the technique.

thier tucked in thru out the lift. even moreso at the bottom of the lift. you just want your arms working in the natural range of motion the cuff is designed to do. which is rotating your arm as in a forward and reverse motion like your marching. pretend your marching right now and see if you understand the range motion im trying to explain.

this technique is absolutely beautiful feeling on incline and straight bar military press. i never go behind my neck so im not sure how that would work. maybe not as well as going in front.

good luck, everyone i ever showed this has helped them.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

The biggest bitch about it though is that my PFT consists of pull ups. Obviously my shoulder can't take it which leads to less pull ups, which leads to a lower score therefore making it harder for me to get promoted.

you can do pull ups. take your hands and pronate them, palms toward you. grab the bar with hands just shoulder width apart. now pull up. the only difference is you really need to concentrate on flexing your lats while doing this type of pullup because peeps have the tendency to use the bicep on the initial pulling phase. but flex those lats at the initial pull. the good thing is you also are using your biceps, less curls to do.

again, get the arm in the range of motion that has less stress on the cuff.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

Twice a week

2 exercises
4 sets of 10

External Rotation
L-laterals w/ elbow on an incline bench

After 6 months it still hurts, mostly when doing inclines and flat bench press
Istopped most shoulders movements and dips

drop the silly cuff exercises and pull your elbows in on all presses.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

My elbows have always been wide since thats the best way to work the pecs I thought. Didnt know elbow position would make that big of a difference, maybe I ll try it since I ve got nothing to lose.

you better try it after all this typing ive done. give a month.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

Infra what???

How often do you think rotator work should be done....once a week like other muscles or more??

none. its a tiny area that gets enough work from all other presses, thats why it hurts. stop putting more work load on it. maybe do one light small conditioning.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

What about chin-ups ?

It seems they put a lot of stress on my shoulders/rot. cuff

if this applies to you.

pronate your hands, palms toward you, put in the air as if there is a bar to grab, put shoulder width apart, now act like your doing a pullup.

vs do the same using your technique. arms flared out. very wide grip.

you should be able to get an idea of what im typing as to the difference in range of motion between the two.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[-SD-]

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cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

One last thing, my doc told me to limit my range of motion to "goal posts" when pressing, meaning I cant go down all the way and it ends up stopping short of my chest by about 4 or 5 inches. If I use elbow tuck technique does this mean I can start going down all the way and use full range of motion?

 

[SoreArms]

some one post up some rotator cuff warm up execises

 

[spongebob]

One last thing, my doc told me to limit my range of motion to "goal posts" when pressing, meaning I cant go down all the way and it ends up stopping short of my chest by about 4 or 5 inches. If I use elbow tuck technique does this mean I can start going down all the way and use full range of motion?

give it a try, you might consider stopping short. but to me that seems way more stressful. what i do is arch my back and pin my shoulder blades under my back. putting my chest as high as possible. but since you seem to have a little more of a problem. i would definitely still go to the bottom but really start out with light weight until you know what will happen. just practicing the technique. i think you will be able to bottom out though.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[spongebob]

some one post up some rotator cuff warm up execises

the only one i do is bend your arm at a 90. hold the tri/bi parrallel to the ground. and grab a pink dumbell. then i rotate it down as if im arm wrestling. while still holding the tri/bi parrallel to the ground.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[-SD-]

Just got back from the gym and tried out the elbow tuck method and feels ok but doesnt feel like im working my pecs that much, kind of like its just a variation of close grip bench for tris only with a normal bench width grip. think i may have to arch my back and squeeze shoulder blades together next time or something.

 

[cmdubs]

Just got back from the gym and tried out the elbow tuck method and feels ok but doesnt feel like im working my pecs that much, kind of like its just a variation of close grip bench for tris only with a normal bench width grip. think i may have to arch my back and squeeze shoulder blades together next time or something.

I know for sure that I get less chest stimulation on the flat bench if I tuck. I actually did incline DBs the other night using the tuck method and felt better chest stimulation.....felt like it took the shoulders out of the movement. I was weaker tho.

 

[anthrax]

Thanx SpongeBob

 

[InTraining]

some one post up some rotator cuff warm up execises

I had a shoulder scare a few months back with my rotator, probably due to not training the muscles adequately enough. I implemented this warmup and have had no problems since.

Seated DB Cleans- I use the 10 or 12.5 lb dbs and get to 10-15 reps, 1 set

Bye-Byes-5 lb plate, 1 set 10-15 reps

I only include the Bye-Byes on pressing days

 

[spongebob]

Just got back from the gym and tried out the elbow tuck method and feels ok but doesnt feel like im working my pecs that much, kind of like its just a variation of close grip bench for tris only with a normal bench width grip. think i may have to arch my back and squeeze shoulder blades together next time or something.

you are gonna have a little trade off, but you cant continue to fuck with your cuffs. also pinning your shoulder blades under you and bowing your chest up helps hit the pecs while using the tuc method.

and dumbells.

i use to sleep in agony, train in agony, use too much ibuprofen, smelly cremes, it sucked, because it was constant pain. i have none now.

__________________________________________________

cereal killer!

sponge is no longer associated with the associates association.

Titanium Member

 

[split endz]

I ripped my right rotator terribly , hitting a serve in a tennis tournament. (sounded like tearing a large piece of velcro... very scary) It was so painful, I could hardly raise my arm. Ortho said it was my decision: surgery; or rehab it myself. They gave me the rubber band & naprosyn, but I hated doing those movements. I rehabed it myself, and today, my shoulder is very strong, maybe not 100%, but very close. Here's what I did: Right after the injury, you will not be able to do much, but do what you can without too much pain. eg. I could not do military, but I could do lateral raises to parallel, so that's what I did slowly increasing the weight. After about 8 months, I was able to do every movement with decent weight. The bench press is still the scariest movement to me, it can destroy a shoulder in a flash, but today I can max at about 285 ( I weigh 180). Here's the most important thing : warm up the rotator/shoulders before you lift or play any sport. When I am driving to the gym, I am pulling my arm across my body (steer with my knees), that is a great rotator stretch. I also put my arm in the back-scratch position & pull down on the elbow. Then when I get to the gym, I do the windmill move with both arms in both directions for about a minute (no weights). Then I hang in the pull-up station for awhile & maybe do a couple of pull ups. Then I sit down on a bench machine & do some light bench press moves slowly moving up in weight. I do a few other small movements, but those are the best, especially pulling your arm across your body, stretching it as much as you can. I do that one throughout my workouts. A shoulder injury is scary, but you can come back from it. Mine is a little sore today (played hard tennis last night), but for the most part I feel I have rehabed it almost 100%. My injury occured 3.5 yrs ago. Good luck, I feel your pain.

 

[SoreArms]

I found that a lot of my trouble came from the way I was sleeping on my shoulder. I sleep on my side with my arm extended straight out. It puts a lot of stress on the joint.

I didn't think much of this when I first read it, then last night I noticed that I sleep on my shoulder a lot too and it does put a lot of stres on it, specially since I had just worked shoulders last night.

Have you tried not sleeping on it, what were your results?