Over the counter legal PCT

[nygiants]

Yes, it would appear that you are looking for a source because Nolva, clomid & letro are prescription only drugs. There are tons of "OTC" PCT products. Every site including this one sells them. I cannot comment on EF's products as I have not used them but they get very good reviews from most users. From my perspective I use Ergopharms 6OXO Extreme & Formadrol Extreme which are both effective estrogen control & test boosters.

If Letro is a prescribed Drug. Then what exaclty are the AG Guys selling?

http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product.php?productid=16138&cat=254

LiquiFem - Femera (Letrozole)

my guess its a copy cat of the real thing. Non FDA approved. But does it work like the real deal?


here is the bottom line guys...with all due respect....when I open a post asking a simple question...Im looking for a simple answer....not a 4 page debate on whether clomid will shrink your balls or not.....i dont care....

What this post was oringally about was this......

Is there PCT out there, that works....that I can get from one of our sponsored sites..legally.....I'm going to assume its legal because I can order it online.

 

[muscleup]

Well don't assume that.

Give PP products a try and get some labwork done afterwards...Let us know how it goes.

If Letro is a prescribed Drug. Then what exaclty are the AG Guys selling?

http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product.php?productid=16138&cat=254

LiquiFem - Femera (Letrozole)

my guess its a copy cat of the real thing. Non FDA approved. But does it work like the real deal?


here is the bottom line guys...with all due respect....when I open a post asking a simple question...Im looking for a simple answer....not a 4 page debate on whether clomid will shrink your balls or not.....i dont care....

What this post was oringally about was this......

Is there PCT out there, that works....that I can get from one of our sponsored sites..legally.....I'm going to assume its legal because I can order it online.

 

[chrisproia]

why would i when clomid is so much cheaper and i recover fine?

good point.

 

[Nelson Montana]

and neither does yours...The one thing I know that is a FACT that is Endocrinologist{Actual Dr's, not board gurus} will use SERMS to try to replenish HPTA function.

I don't see them telling there patients to use Trib, Lj100, or any other natural "Test Booster".


I'm not saying these products don't work, but as far as "evidence" is concerened I think there are far, far, more people who have recovered with serms, than those who have recovered and used the products pushed here and elsewhere.

Once again, this is not entirely true. Of course doctors aren't going to recommend supplements. They don't know anything about them. They'll tell you not to bother using protein, does that mean you're not going to do it?

And SERMS ARE NOT used exclusively for hypogonadalism. In a few cases they're regarded as a "why not" drug but with very mixed results. It's like using antibiotics to treat a virus. It MAY help but most probably won't and will lower your natural immunity, yet some doctors still do it.

And incidentally, treating a suppressed HPTA from steroid use is not a standard procedure in the medical community. And when they were legal, the use of SERMS were not considered an adjunct.

I know this is hard for people to get their head around but this is the reality.

 

[muscleup]

Much respect to you Nelson for your Idea's

but I know for a FACT that endocrinologist use Serms/AI's...And yes treating people with Low testosterone weather it was self induced or not is very common, and they do so with HCG, clomid, and nolvdex a majority of the time before deciding on TRT/HRT.{There are over 2 million men on TRT in this country alone...So I would say it's fairly common}

I will not argue this point with you...It is Fact.

It all boils down to what makes the individual recover...No one method works for everyone.

Once again, this is not entirely true. Of course doctors aren't going to recommend supplements. They don't know anything about them. They'll tell you not to bother using protein, does that mean you're not going to do it?

And SERMS ARE NOT used exclusively for hypogonadalism. In a few cases they're regarded as a "why not" drug but with very mixed results. It's like using antibiotics to treat a virus. It MAY help but most probably won't and will lower your natural immunity, yet some doctors still do it.

And incidentally, treating a suppressed HPTA from steroid use is not a standard procedure in the medical community. And when they were legal, the use of SERMS were not considered an adjunct.

I know this is hard for people to get their head around but this is the reality.

 

[perryscoon]

Clomid FTW.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Much respect to you Nelson for your Idea's

but I know for a FACT that endocrinologist use Serms/AI's...And yes treating people with Low testosterone weather it was self induced or not is very common, and they do so with HCG, clomid, and nolvdex a majority of the time before deciding on TRT/HRT.{There are over 2 million men on TRT in this country alone...So I would say it's fairly common}

I will not argue this point with you...It is Fact.

It all boils down to what makes the individual recover...No one method works for everyone.

I guess we know different doctors. Nolva may be prescibed to combat estrogen (a stupid tactic but that's another story) but I've never known a doctor to prescribe it to recover T levels for a very simple reason -- it isn't not designed to do so.

I've also dealt with many endos and none ever prescribed HCG for the simple fact that they know it's temporary. (I saw four different endos when going for HRT, nver once was HCG suggested). What would be the point? As steroid users we know it helps give a kick start to the testes but where in medical school do doctors learn about kickstarting the testes due to steroid use? Nowhere.

Now does this mean that some docs may do things differently? Of course. And there are those on-line clinics but honestly, they don't count. I've known more people that were fucked up by the recommendations of those people than were helped.

So you're saying that what you believe is a fact and I know that what I'm saying is a fact. Maybe we just have different experiences but two aother facts remain, SERMS are sucky drugs to accomplish restoration of the HPTA and that has been demonstrated hundreds of times over. And the results from the use of the supps has been overwhelming. You can get on board with that or you can reject it. But what is, is.

 

[muscleup]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. No problem with that and I have enjoyed the discourse.

You have your opinion and I have mind{and I quess in both our minds they are fact }

I guess we know different doctors. Nolva may be prescibed to combat estrogen (a stupid tactic but that's another story) but I've never known a doctor to prescribe it to recover T levels for a very simple reason -- it isn't not designed to do so.

I've also dealt with many endos and none ever prescribed HCG for the simple fact that they know it's temporary. (I saw four different endos when going for HRT, nver once was HCG suggested). What would be the point? As steroid users we know it helps give a kick start to the testes but where in medical school do doctors learn about kickstarting the testes due to steroid use? Nowhere.

Now does this mean that some docs may do things differently? Of course. And there are those on-line clinics but honestly, they don't count. I've known more people that were fucked up by the recommendations of those people than were helped.

So you're saying that what you believe is a fact and I know that what I'm saying is a fact. Maybe we just have different experiences but two aother facts remain, SERMS are sucky drugs to accomplish restoration of the HPTA and that has been demonstrated hundreds of times over. And the results from the use of the supps has been overwhelming. You can get on board with that or you can reject it. But what is, is.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. No problem with that and I have enjoyed the discourse.

You have your opinion and I have mind{and I quess in both our minds they are fact }

All good bro.

 

[nzrodney]

The above "discussion" is the best I have seen for a while. Keep it up Nelson & Muscleup because this is how these threads are meant to operate. Great arguements from both sides.