OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of the

[redguru]

Red, I don't understand why Bill didn't answer this one for you since he's told me he was a practicing cardiologist/cardiac specialist with a thriving practice. He should be able to give you the medical explanations very clearly, but if you must, I googled the words: "definition fetus", "definition baby":

I chose the answers from Children's Hospital and Princeton:

Fetus: an unborn baby from the eighth week after fertilization until birth (that's from CHOP);

Baby: a very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk (from Princeton).

I mean if you want the full list of definitions I can give it to you but that would be longer than my original post. I read that to mean you have to be born to be a baby, until you are sustaining your own life functions independent of your mother, you're a fetus.

So what does that make a paraplegic child, or a great-grandfather suffering from late-stage Alzheimer's? A 20 year old accident victim in a coma?

If your logical fallacy applies to the unborn child that it is unable to sustain itself, it also applies to these examples. Where do we take it from there? It's a very easy ethical question.

 

[musclemom]

So what does that make a paraplegic child, or a great-grandfather suffering from late-stage Alzheimer's? A 20 year old accident victim in a coma?

If your logical fallacy applies to the unborn child that it is unable to sustain itself, it also applies to these examples. Where do we take it from there? It's a very easy ethical question.

1. The original question pertained to abortion, in particular, a woman who had undergone five abortions; the thread morphed into the ethics of number of abortions vis a vis the gynecologist who performs thousands of abortions over the course of their career; I really don't see how paraplegics, Alzheimer's disease patients or coma victims comes into the discussion. If you want to pursue that ethical discussion that's fine by me, but I'm not much fun because I believe in quality, not quantity, in life and I've made sure that I have those wishes on legal documents AND my family knows what I want.

2. Soooo, you're mixing apples and oranges, you've brought in the entire medical/ethical/societal/legal morality of euthanasia/DNR/quality of life and that entire bucket of worms; see my previous comment.

3. I THOUGHT we are talking purely from a medical terminology standpoint, was I wrong? You cannot say quadriceps and mean triceps any more than you can say fetus and mean baby, the terms are NOT interchangeable. A fetus is from fertization up until birth; a baby has been born, ergo, a fetus cannot be a baby UNTIL it has been born. You can be as warm and fuzzy as you want, but it is what it is. There are many facts we have to face that are unpleasant, but that does not change the facts.

 

[BrothaBill]

Re: OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of

1. The original question pertained to abortion, in particular, a woman who had undergone five abortions; the thread morphed into the ethics of number of abortions vis a vis the gynecologist who performs thousands of abortions over the course of their career; I really don't see how paraplegics, Alzheimer's disease patients or coma victims comes into the discussion. If you want to pursue that ethical discussion that's fine by me, but I'm not much fun because I believe in quality, not quantity, in life and I've made sure that I have those wishes on legal documents AND my family knows what I want.

2. Soooo, you're mixing apples and oranges, you've brought in the entire medical/ethical/societal/legal morality of euthanasia/DNR/quality of life and that entire bucket of worms; see my previous comment.

3. I THOUGHT we are talking purely from a medical terminology standpoint, was I wrong? You cannot say quadriceps and mean triceps any more than you can say fetus and mean baby, the terms are NOT interchangeable. A fetus is from fertization up until birth; a baby has been born, ergo, a fetus cannot be a baby UNTIL it has been born. You can be as warm and fuzzy as you want, but it is what it is. There are many facts we have to face that are unpleasant, but that does not change the facts.

Were talking when does life begin?

 

[musclemom]

Re: OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of

Were talking when does life begin?

Ooooo, religioethical question, IMO, fuzzy logic. It's a gray picture, no black and white edges. You can say XYZ things happen, but does that make the fetus viable, guaranteed inalienable rights ...

What defines life? Heart beat ... ummm, nope, with the right brain traumas you can flat line on an EEG, have a heartbeat and be an organ donor.

Good question ... and considering greater minds than my own have been debating it for ages I won't feel bad for not coming up with a definitive answer

Okay, boys, I can't play anymore I have to go pick up my son. Enjoy your holiday if you celebrate it.

 

[BrothaBill]

Re: OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of

Ooooo, religioethical question, IMO, fuzzy logic. It's a gray picture, no black and white edges. You can say XYZ things happen, but does that make the fetus viable, guaranteed inalienable rights ...

What defines life? Heart beat ... ummm, nope, with the right brain traumas you can flat line on an EEG, have a heartbeat and be an organ donor.

Good question ... and considering greater minds than my own have been debating it for ages I won't feel bad for not coming up with a definitive answer

Okay, boys, I can't play anymore I have to go pick up my son. Enjoy your holiday if you celebrate it.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5546311&postcount=77

 

[spongebob]

Red, I don't understand why Bill didn't answer this one for you since he's told me he was a practicing cardiologist/cardiac specialist with a thriving practice. He should be able to give you the medical explanations very clearly, but if you must, I googled the words: "definition fetus", "definition baby":

I chose the answers from Children's Hospital and Princeton:

Fetus: an unborn baby from the eighth week after fertilization until birth (that's from CHOP);

Baby: a very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk (from Princeton).

I mean if you want the full list of definitions I can give it to you but that would be longer than my original post. I read that to mean you have to be born to be a baby, until you are sustaining your own life functions independent of your mother, you're a fetus.

well its all just a matter of variables to defend ones arguement now isnt it. i mean call it what you wish, fetus, baby, even parasite.

the only question that needs answering is when do you believe life begins, life is life, you can not spin that with variables such as fetus, baby, or parasite.

or if you believe in souls, when is the soul created.

but dont let the childrens hospital, harvard or anyone else define that for you.

 

[spongebob]

Re: OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of

I once argued with a guy for hours over Affirmative Action just so I could get him to say. "Fuck man, whats a quota then??"

I said a "quota is 25cents"

yea i use to pull this routine on people where i would give a thirty minute spill on how my family had adopted an ethiopian and was sending monies over there. explained how the kid really took to us and wrote heartwarming letters, and how the kid was all excited to call us 'family'. at the end i would say they sent a picture of thier family then i'd ask if they would like to see the little fellow. then i'd proceed to pull out a small grocery store barcode from my wallet and point and say, "he's the one in the middle".

 

[redguru]

1. The original question pertained to abortion, in particular, a woman who had undergone five abortions; the thread morphed into the ethics of number of abortions vis a vis the gynecologist who performs thousands of abortions over the course of their career; I really don't see how paraplegics, Alzheimer's disease patients or coma victims comes into the discussion. If you want to pursue that ethical discussion that's fine by me, but I'm not much fun because I believe in quality, not quantity, in life and I've made sure that I have those wishes on legal documents AND my family knows what I want.

As soon as you refer to the fetus as unable to sustain life on its own, all those other cases are valid comparative references. All of those others have individual rights regarding his/her life, why does the unborn baby not?

2. Soooo, you're mixing apples and oranges, you've brought in the entire medical/ethical/societal/legal morality of euthanasia/DNR/quality of life and that entire bucket of worms; see my previous comment.

The point of the thread was that life is life, not relative. If a person believes having five abortions is wrong, then one abortion must also be wrong by applied logic.

3. I THOUGHT we are talking purely from a medical terminology standpoint, was I wrong? You cannot say quadriceps and mean triceps any more than you can say fetus and mean baby, the terms are NOT interchangeable. A fetus is from fertization up until birth; a baby has been born, ergo, a fetus cannot be a baby UNTIL it has been born. You can be as warm and fuzzy as you want, but it is what it is. There are many facts we have to face that are unpleasant, but that does not change the facts.

This whole thread is about ethics, and how tenuous from a logical philosophical standpoint the argument for abortion rights is.

 

[Extra_Strong]

Re: OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of

There we go again, bring up God to make arguments. Against the rules of a logical debate, besides, you can never say definitevly there is "not" b/c only a God's eye view could say one way or another

? silly i said that God was not part in my decision of right or wrong.

You dont believe in the Declaration of Independence and the ideas of Liberty from French philosophers that so influenced the Founding Fathers?? ? dont belive in it ? are you asking me if i think it is real? or if i agree with it.?


And Empathy is too subjective, thats a copout answer. How would you write that out like I said if you were to write out a document to be followed if you were to write a Constitution???
Here is the law of the land, "Empathy". More thinking, please take into account people who feel no empathy

This was just directed toward me or i thought as how do I justify right and wrong.

Were talking when does life begin?

what is your definiton of Life?

 

[BrothaBill]

Re: OK, Abortion Question. I had a friend that married a woman he divorced and one of

? silly i said that God was not part in my decision of right or wrong.

Then why did you bring it up??




what is your definiton of Life?

lolol, for me, its starts after the second cup of coffee