No wonder Michael Moore loves the UAW

[HardHat87]

Isn't Chrysler FOREIGN-owned now too???

Patriotism stops when it's _your_ money being spent. Then you want the best bang for your buck.

It might be but they are still UAW. If it is foreign owned then they will have to wait until the end of the UAW contract until they can get rid of them. I agree, when people give me shit for driving an Acura I tell them until you buy me a car I will drive what I want. What Im saying though is that every car has about the same number of foreign, domestic parts on it. BMWs have a Gm made transmission in it. The ford sht had a complete Japenese motor in it. Most of the foreign cars are made in the US, employing American workers. So yes you should buy what you want or whatever is the better running car.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I am in the UAW and the only auto workers in it work for either Ford,GM, or Crysler.

I will have more questions for you, I am sure. Thanks for replying.

A lexus is made by Toyota which has no union.

I have a few Lexuses, I've generally been happy with them. From what I understand, many Toyotas are made in the US. This was done as a political maneuver by Japanese car makers I am sure, to seem more US friendly when anti-Japanese biases arose in the 80s. There were probably some economic incentives to create jobs here, along with tariff avoidance, etc. I don't know specifics off-hand.

And none of the prices of new cars go to pensions.

Incorrect. $2000 of every GM car's price goes to pensions. I read that in the WSJ about two weeks ago, and also came across it when talking to the owner of a Cadillac dealership a few weeks ago; I was testing the CTS-V. Great to drive, a rocket, but when I was talking price with the owner we got into a long discussion over this, and he's owned the dealership 30+ years, so he's been there for GMs ups and downs.

If you'd like I will find an authoritative source to confirm this pension statement for you. I am completely sure of it though. GM having pension problems is old news, I thought. How else would they pay for them?

Toyotas, Hondas, etc are made in the US now, so really the only foreign car is European autos. American cars are alos made with many foreign parts in it, just as foriegn cars have many American parts in it.

Sure. But it is still true that absent unions, the prices of labor would drop, so would the price of cars.

Even though I am in the UAW I drive an Acura, many people who work with me are driving what they want. My Acura was made in ohio and only has 25% of the parts from Japan. It is true that American cars last about 3 times less than a Honda. etc. I am not biased on any way because I work there, I just have more information regarding all auto companies. I hope you buy one of those Chinese cars though. They are huge pieces of junk.

Useful info. But I am puzzled by your last two sentences. Don't take this stuff personally. I just post to share knowledge and gain knowledge. I have a few cars, all foreign. I got really lucky a few years ago and can buy anything. But I know the auto workers said the same thing about Japanese cars 40+ years ago, and now they are superior.

Auto workers said Korean cars would suck too, but Hyundai and Kia established a low cost foothold and are now moving up the chain; there is a Kia "luxury" car (such as it is) and both Hyundai and Kia make SUVs, etc.

Do you really think Chinese cars will not be a force in the market in say, 20 years?

 

[biteme]

Michael Moore is a great man and should run for President. He is the most informed, knowledgable citizen in the U.S.

 

[Mr. dB]

IIncorrect. $2000 of every GM car's price goes to pensions.

Why is that bad? Most corporations have a pension plan of some sort for full time employees, and if they're selling a product, the cost of that pension must be reflected in the price. It's part of the cost of doing business.

 

[mrplunkey]

Why is that bad? Most corporations have a pension plan of some sort for full time employees, and if they're selling a product, the cost of that pension must be reflected in the price. It's part of the cost of doing business.

It's bad because the pension programs of many companies (not just GM) are driving companies that would otherwise be viable into financial ruin. The pension program itself wasn't the issue -- it was the out of control benefits and costs of the programs.

Also... it makes stuff more expensive!

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Why is that bad? Most corporations have a pension plan of some sort for full time employees, and if they're selling a product, the cost of that pension must be reflected in the price. It's part of the cost of doing business.

For hardhat87: each GM car or truck this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health-care costs, according to Stephen Girsky, an industry analyst for Morgan Stanley. That's up from about $1,300 last year. "There are more health-care costs in a car than steel," Girsky said

You can read the whole article at: http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/business/2003/07/28pensionwoesdriv.html


mr. dB,

Would you rather pay $22,000 for a car or $20,000? Also does not help market competitiveness. The idea is to reduce as many "costs of doing business" as possible. The article above talks about the competitive downward spiral the big three are in.

Can the US survive without an auto industry?

 

[Spartacus]

Incorrect. $2000 of every GM car's price goes to pensions. I read that in the WSJ about two weeks ago, and also came across it when talking to the owner of a Cadillac dealership a few weeks ago; I was testing the CTS-V. Great to drive, a rocket, but when I was talking price with the owner we got into a long discussion over this, and he's owned the dealership 30+ years, so he's been there for GMs ups and downs.

I read the same article

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

I was a honda man for a long time (I have had 3 of them) but I can say after a year that my Dodge SRT-4 is at least a match for my 2000 Si in terms of reliability, fit and finish.

I wouldn't lump all american cars in the shit category.


Bluesman

 

[d3track]

isnt the srt mostly mitsu?
i thought i read that back when it was first introduced

 

[CFZB]

*in my best Droopy Voice*.....ahem

Oh well ...golly gee wiz.... looks like its a horrible thing and theres nothing we can do ...Boy oh Boy ....its always been bad and its always going to be this way ....oh golly... and they signed thier union cards so theres nothing they can do ...oh golly gee willikers...and they are soldiers too ..they should be treated better than that...gosh o gosh.... Looks like we have to deal with it ... oh Gosh..and everythings so expensive...gosh ..what are we going to do?....