No Nolvadex?

[Shmigly]

Browsing a lot of threads here and everyone seems to say Nolvadex in PCT is outdated and unnecessary, can someone explain why this is?

For my PCT on my first and only cycle i used

weeks 1-2 = 40mg Nolvadex and 100mg clomid
weeks 3-4 = 20mg Nolvadex and 50mg clomid

and i recovered fine, next time i plan on doing some Hcg 500iu / week (as my next cycle will be a heavier one).

 

[rms13]

Because there is lots of bro science here.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Because there is lots of bro science here.

Funny answer. What do you think the belief that nolvadex restores HPTA is? Outdated bro science! lol

Bottom line-- there are better ways and they're proven. You have a problem with that?

 

[muscleaddiction]

Some of these guys must have some sort of stock in Nolva or something...keep trying to insist it is the holy grail of PCT.

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[Jigga14]

I steroids guy has mad stocks of nolva

 

[dylangemelli]

I steroids guy has mad stocks of nolva

Lmfao!! Im fuckin crackin up on that one!

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[oxymoron]

For me personally using one serm particularly clomid does a perfectly fine job of restoring pituary function. I understand that they both approach stimulating hpta somewhat differently and I used to do the clomid/nolva pct for 4-6 wks and felt somewhat shitty but eventually i'd recover.

Although since i've researched more here and dropped the nolva and ran clomid + proteinfactory unleashed/post cycle pct's i've felt great thru pct and been back up quicker than the ole clomid/nolva days. I have been running hcgenerate on-cycle also as change as well tho.

 

[joeblow12345]

Browsing a lot of threads here and everyone seems to say Nolvadex in PCT is outdated and unnecessary, can someone explain why this is?

For my PCT on my first and only cycle i used

weeks 1-2 = 40mg Nolvadex and 100mg clomid
weeks 3-4 = 20mg Nolvadex and 50mg clomid

and i recovered fine, next time i plan on doing some Hcg 500iu / week (as my next cycle will be a heavier one).

So you felt good from day one of pct until the end? You didnt have any point during in which you felt like shit, your libido crashed, moody, etc ? Did you have blood work after your pct to confirm you were recovered? 99% of the people that I have come across including myself,who used nolva all had similar problems when usinh it. Once the switch to a more effective pct,with the use of ntbm products and clomid was made, the results were astounding. Pct became easy and no more crashing afterwords until your body recovers on its own. If you didnt realize it yet, the body will eventually return back to normal on its own. After almost all the gains you made are gone ofcourse. And some of the unlucky people never fully return to normal and have to be placed on hrt. I promise if you try a different approach you wont waste your time with nolva again.

NTBM REP

 

[Shmigly]

So you felt good from day one of pct until the end? You didnt have any point during in which you felt like shit, your libido crashed, moody, etc ? Did you have blood work after your pct to confirm you were recovered? 99% of the people that I have come across including myself,who used nolva all had similar problems when usinh it. Once the switch to a more effective pct,with the use of ntbm products and clomid was made, the results were astounding. Pct became easy and no more crashing afterwords until your body recovers on its own. If you didnt realize it yet, the body will eventually return back to normal on its own. After almost all the gains you made are gone ofcourse. And some of the unlucky people never fully return to normal and have to be placed on hrt. I promise if you try a different approach you wont waste your time with nolva again.

NTBM REP

what approach would you suggest then? And would it be something normally stocked by a dealer as i already have a source.

 

[stevesmi]

all nolva does is block estrogen. THATS IT. it DOES NOT restore HPTA function.

there are countless of things out there that do the same thing but without the sides. so no reason to use nolva today.

hope this helps

 

[stevesmi]

what approach would you suggest then? And would it be something normally stocked by a dealer as i already have a source.

I've posted hundreds of times how to approach pct. its not just about what you run for pct, its what you run during cycle and as a kickstart.

as to answer your question without knowing what you are running and how long and what dosages it isn't possible to give you a concrete answer to your question.

 

[muscleaddiction]

all nolva does is block estrogen. THATS IT. it DOES NOT restore HPTA function.

there are countless of things out there that do the same thing but without the sides. so no reason to use nolva today.

hope this helps

We sound like a fucking broken record skipping...and skipping...and skipping, it has now become annoying!

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[stevesmi]

Some of these guys must have some sort of stock in Nolva or something...keep trying to insist it is the holy grail of PCT.

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I have stock in condoms so I insist guys avoid nolva

hell even females that I know in person who were put on nolva after cancer say its the worst thing ever...

its popular cause its cheap and it does a damn good job of blocking estrogen.

but PCT is much more than blocking estrogen... until newbs figure that out they will continue suffering during pct and quit on the gym like so many do

 

[rms13]

So what do you suggest for a 12 week test only cycle?

My main problem with many suggestions here is that they involve unproven natural supplements sold by companies that just happen to be board sponsors and I dont see anyone here posting copies of their blood work to back up their claims

 

[stevesmi]

So what do you suggest for a 12 week test only cycle?

My main problem with many suggestions here is that they involve unproven natural supplements sold by companies that just happen to be board sponsors and I dont see anyone here posting copies of their blood work to back up their claims

hcg and HMG are not natural supplements. nor is clomid.

and also I have posted my bloods many times.. you obviously do not hang out enough at EF to claim that no one posts bloods. and I've helped hundreds of guys restore their HPTA on here through PM's... if you find the thank you thread to me they have posted this

we get a poster come on here every other month like you with outrageous and ignorant comments, it gets old after a while and I have learned that ignorant people will never go away.. you have been a member for 2 months and have a few posts to your name and you already want to run EF your way? the more likely scenario is you are a troll and I hope you give me a reason not to ban you today cause I am in a very good mood .. you can start by not posting bullshit which is based on fantasy and not fact.

 

[rms13]

Ok, back to my question. I am going to run a 12 week test only cycle soon with hcg from week 2 until pct. Was planning on nolva 20mg/day for 4 weeks starting 3 weeks after last pin as Im using test cyp. What do you suggest as pct for that cycle ?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Ok, back to my question. I am going to run a 12 week test only cycle soon with hcg from week 2 until pct. Was planning on nolva 20mg/day for 4 weeks starting 3 weeks after last pin as Im using test cyp. What do you suggest as pct for that cycle ?

Nolva only PCT is a fucktard PCT. You will not recover. If you do then your young and your body is fortunatley doing it on its own sooner than later.
Aromasin and Arimidex are perfectly suitable AI's. I'd rather pay too much for one of those than i would run Free nolva.

PCT? There are so many fucking PCT threads on here. i mean theres a thousand recent ones if theres one.
Theres stickies about it. A forum for it......and your still stuck on nolva?

Let me give you a PCT with no board sponsors..

HMG
HCG
Aromasin
Clomid (a tiny amount....even though i think its useless)
Unleashed (yes unleashed. a sponsor sells it but you can get it elsewhere...why? because it fucking works. hence why its always in my cupboard)
There....^^^^ sponsor free PCT

What else works? HCgenerate. Yeah it fucking works and it works awsome. How do I know this? Because I use it. I dont work for N2 or EF so I dont give a fuck what anyone thinks. So use it or miss out on it wtf ever you choose. Believe me bro...I understand.....I understand where a new member comes in here and all it looks like sometimes is like the couple big board sponsors are trying to shove products down members throats and all the new guys are being brainwashed. Yes....sometimes, you'll see a mod promote a certain product. Well, its their job to help promote sponsors. Sometimes (i dont believe currently there are any) we get some bullshit sponsors. They get to be sponsors because they pay their money. But if they are trying to pimp you garbage....theres a 99% chance your going to get a PM from one of the longer tenured vets like myself telling you not to waste your money.

 

[maccy]

I'm supprised ppl keep asking about nolva all u have to do is read every second post and Dylan is telling someone to flush it down the toilet hahah

 

[muscleaddiction]

Nolva only PCT is a fucktard PCT. You will not recover. If you do then your young and your body is fortunatley doing it on its own sooner than later.
Aromasin and Arimidex are perfectly suitable AI's. I'd rather pay too much for one of those than i would run Free nolva.

PCT? There are so many fucking PCT threads on here. i mean theres a thousand recent ones if theres one.
Theres stickies about it. A forum for it......and your still stuck on nolva?

Let me give you a PCT with no board sponsors..

HMG
HCG
Aromasin
Clomid (a tiny amount....even though i think its useless)
Unleashed (yes unleashed. a sponsor sells it but you can get it elsewhere...why? because it fucking works. hence why its always in my cupboard)
There....^^^^ sponsor free PCT

What else works? HCgenerate. Yeah it fucking works and it works awsome. How do I know this? Because I use it. I dont work for N2 or EF so I dont give a fuck what anyone thinks. So use it or miss out on it wtf ever you choose. Believe me bro...I understand.....I understand where a new member comes in here and all it looks like sometimes is like the couple big board sponsors are trying to shove products down members throats and all the new guys are being brainwashed. Yes....sometimes, you'll see a mod promote a certain product. Well, its their job to help promote sponsors. Sometimes (i dont believe currently there are any) we get some bullshit sponsors. They get to be sponsors because they pay their money. But if they are trying to pimp you garbage....theres a 99% chance your going to get a PM from one of the longer tenured vets like myself telling you not to waste your money.

Thanks BTC...I am a rep for NTBM, and am currently running HCGenerate on cycle and haven't felt my balls get any smaller, and wife hasn't noticed either...even up to a couple of hours ago , I have the following arranged as my cycle support and PCT...notice, NO NOLVA!!!

1-18 Aromasin 12.5-25 ED
1-18 Proviron 75mg ED
1-6 HCGenerate 5 caps ED
7-10 HCG 500iu EOD
11-14 HCGenerate 5 caps ED
15-18 HCG 500iu EOD
19-22 Clomid 50/25/25/25
17-22 Unleashed/Post Cycle
19-24 Forma Stanzol
17-24 MK-2866 (Osta) 25mg ED

I also have some Powerchews D-test to add for a boost, so pretty much solid cycle support, solid PCT = solid recovery!!!



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[Lighter Fighter]

I agree with rms13, most guys here recommend the natural method because those supps only sells on this site and they're a sponsor, i am by no means bashing the sponsor and no i havent tried their products they might work very well i cant argue with that, so please dont flame me....
Nolvadex have been shown in scientific studies to increase natural testosterone by 150% by a single 40mg dose, and its a strong anti strongen drug, when you go to PCT your test drops and your estrogen increase so it makes perfect sense to incorporate nolva post cycle along with clomid to restore HPTA..
Im not saying you guys are wrong but saying nolvadex is useless is just ignorant..

 

[stevesmi]

I agree with rms13, most guys here recommend the natural method because those supps only sells on this site and they're a sponsor, i am by no means bashing the sponsor and no i havent tried their products they might work very well i cant argue with that, so please dont flame me....
Nolvadex have been shown in scientific studies to increase natural testosterone by 150% by a single 40mg dose, and its a strong anti strongen drug, when you go to PCT your test drops and your estrogen increase so it makes perfect sense to incorporate nolva post cycle along with clomid to restore HPTA..
Im not saying you guys are wrong but saying nolvadex is useless is just ignorant..

you are still living in 1985.

your estrogen won't increase if you are already on an AI, your crash won't happen during PCT if you run hcg/hmg to kickstart pct. again you are stuck in the past with your PCT.

get with the times.

 

[Lighter Fighter]

you are still living in 1985.

your estrogen won't increase if you are already on an AI, your crash won't happen during PCT if you run hcg/hmg to kickstart pct. again you are stuck in the past with your PCT.

get with the times.

What about the hundreds of thousands of people who have used these drugs post cycle and recovered just fine with no negative side effect?
There are scientific studies backing up these drugs and you're saying its bogus? So increasing natural test by 150% post cycle is useless? Im not saying there are not better options but saying nolva is completely useless is not true.. Sure its old school but they work and they have worked for many many years..

 

[RADAR]

What about the hundreds of thousands of people who have used these drugs post cycle and recovered just fine with no negative side effect?
There are scientific studies backing up these drugs and you're saying its bogus? So increasing natural test by 150% post cycle is useless? Im not saying there are not better options but saying nolva is completely useless is not true.. Sure its old school but they work and they have worked for many many years..

Because they thought they worked, Nova does nothing to help restore your HPTA.

 

[rms13]

I understand and accept the opinions and I might try some of these products but also if you go to a dr for trt for example they will give you hcg, maybe some adex and clomid. So if that is what the medical community prescribes I think there is some proof it works

 

[bigbassturd]

I understand and accept the opinions and I might try some of these products but also if you go to a dr for trt for example they will give you hcg, maybe some adex and clomid. So if that is what the medical community prescribes I think there is some proof it works

Everyone in this thread advocates the use of low dose clomid, hcg, and an AI.

Yes, because it works.

But nolva is fucking trash, period. It does ZERO, NADA, NOTHING to restore healthy hpta at ALL.

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[stevesmi]

I understand and accept the opinions and I might try some of these products but also if you go to a dr for trt for example they will give you hcg, maybe some adex and clomid. So if that is what the medical community prescribes I think there is some proof it works

doctors are morons first off. they don't know shit about steroid use. 2nd off we aren't talking about TRT here, we are talking about cycling on and off steroids. doctors don't know shit about AAS, they never learned about them nor studied them UNLESS they are bodybuilders/juicers themselves which is rare. if they are caught using illegal hormones they run the risk of losing their license, hardly a risk 99% are willing to take.

and 3rd off as bigbass said no one is saying not to use what you listed.. we are saying to stay away from nolva. and yes doctors prescribe nolva all the time as I have said a million times on here FOR POST BREAST CANCER PATIENTS because it does a good job of blocking estrogen. buts that all it does. and it has awful sides.. but its cheap so docs hand it out

stop being so thickheaded and try reading the posts and stop re-gurgatating the same bullshit over and over.

if you want to use nolva go ahead and have fun.. its cheap and easy to get. but you won't like the sides. we have sponsors on here that sell nolva as well so stop saying the mods are trying to get people to buy sponsors products. and most mods advocate using HCG and HMG to kickstart pct's and guess what? NONE OF OUR SPONSORS SELL EITHER OF THOSE. so again you are 100% wrong with your analysis. and I think you owe every mod on here an apology for claiming our advice is biased

 

[stevesmi]

What about the hundreds of thousands of people who have used these drugs post cycle and recovered just fine with no negative side effect?
There are scientific studies backing up these drugs and you're saying its bogus? So increasing natural test by 150% post cycle is useless? Im not saying there are not better options but saying nolva is completely useless is not true.. Sure its old school but they work and they have worked for many many years..

I never said nolva is completely useless now did i? it has a purpose.. that is blocking estrogen. but THAT IS ALL IT DOES. there are way better things that block estrogen with little to no sides. aromasin and forma are two for example.. adex would be the next in line.

if PCT was just about killing estrogen then nolva would be a fanstastic PCT. but ignorant newbs who don't know better don't realize that pct is NOT about killing estrogen at all.. you need estrogen during pct, if you kill it you also kill your libido.. pct is about feeling good (nolva fails at that), recovering lipids (something nolva hurts) , and helping stimulate LH (nolva doesn't do directly)