Next Cycle - Opinions...

[house_of_pain]

Starting a summer cycle and the aim to to do a bulking cycle (rather than a cutting cycle)... How does this sound...

6 Day Per Week Training Schedule (currently 6' - 195lbs)
Protein - 1.5-2 grams per pound of body weight per day (via 5 meals)

Week 01 - Dbol 15mg per day
- Andropen 275 (1/2 ml twice weekly)
- Trinabol 150 (1/2 ml twice weekly)

Week 02 - Dbol 50mg per day
Through - Andropen 275 (1 ml twice weekly)
Week 09 - Trinabol 150 (1 ml twice weekly)

Week 10 - Dbol 15mg per day
- Andropen 275 (1/2 ml twice weekly)
- Trinabol 150 (1/2 ml twice weekly)

HCG at Weeks 5 & 11 Followed by Clomid

 

[Tux]

Why the one-week taper? I'd run it straight through. Weeks 1-10, andropen and trinabol, 1cc 2x per week as you have listed. Weeks 1-4, dbol at whatever dosage you decide. I hope you didn't mean to run the dbol all 10 weeks, that's a bit rough on your liver. I would run nolva with the HCG due to the estrogen HCG produces, and use nolva in place of clomid, but that's just a personal preference.

 

[house_of_pain]

The only reason I've ever tapered was because I don't seem to get any noticeable effect (in weight gain or strength) until about the 3 week of a cycle. So I thought it was a waste of gear to run the full dose the first week or two. And at the end, I just assumed that it was a better way avoid crashing test levels at the end robbing me of gains. Is there any proven benefit to skipping tapering altogether at both the beginning and end of a cycle?

Regarding dbol... I've done 10 week cycles before where I just used it for the first 4 weeks... I've done it for the first 3 and the last 3.... And I've done it all the way through albeit at lower dosages (35mg per day max)... The latter of the 3 seems to have given me the best total "kept" gains after a cycle. What's the common wisdom for dbol in your stack now, just to ramp up at the beginning, beginning and end, or is there really any substantial risk in running it all the way through a 10 week cycle?

 

[Tux]

Well if you've run dbol that long before, and your liver values were ok, then you can run it again. And dbol doesn't magically stop working after 4 weeks, so you could get gains from it the whole time. The reason you don't get gains till week 3 or so with injectables is that it takes 3-4 weeks for blood levels to build up to high enough levels to give you noticeable benefit. That's why people use dbol at the beginning, it's fast-acting so it will give you gains while you're waiting for injectables to kick in. Or you can front-load the oils, double your weekly dose the first week or two so they kick in sooner. I prefer to run my injectables at a steady dosage the whole way through. I kick the cycle off with a fast ester or oral, like dbol, test prop, tren ace, etc. Then I usually end with winny, I run it two weeks past the injectables so I can start PCT the day after winny stops. Hope that helps some bro!

 

[DIVISION]

Week 01 - Dbol 15mg per day
- Andropen 275 (1/2 ml twice weekly)
- Trinabol 150 (1/2 ml twice weekly)

Week 02 - Dbol 50mg per day
Through - Andropen 275 (1 ml twice weekly)
Week 09 - Trinabol 150 (1 ml twice weekly)

Week 10 - Dbol 15mg per day
- Andropen 275 (1/2 ml twice weekly)
- Trinabol 150 (1/2 ml twice weekly)

I do not like the andropen, therefore I do not approve your cycle!






DIV

 

[Popeye1]

This is my opinion on pyramiding/tapering.....the only reason someone would take say 500 mg pw of test as opposed to 1,500 mg pw is because of the side effects. The higher dose will give better gains. So lets say you decide your max dose that you are willing to use {because of side effects} is 500 mg pw. You start the first few weeks with a lower dose and work your way up and then back down. Well, you just spent 2/3 of your cycle on a lower dose than in the middle. The most effective part of your cycle only lasted a few weeks. 250 mg pw of test will inhibit natural levels just as much as 1 gram will. You will get a lot more growth out of the gram. So if you decided you were willing to use 500 mg pw of test for the middle of your cycle then why not in the beginning or at the end. Actually, if anything, you should start week one with doubble the dose you decide to use for your cycle. Lets say you decide 500 mg pw. Then your first week should be a gram.This will get blood levels high right away and allow you to have consistancey through out the cycle. The key to a quick recovery is not lowering doses but using fast acting drugs so after you take your last injection you can start recovery and get your natrual levels back as quick as possible. For example, you would never want to end a cycle on a drug like sustanon because levels in the body will stay high for to long and you wont be able to recovery quickly.

 

[chyllaxyn]

I do not like the andropen, therefore I do not approve your cycle!
DIV

LMAO , DIV you never pull a punch but you always hit fair , never cheap.
I like that, props.

I agree, why Andropen?
What is wrong with a little bit of deca mixed with a whole lotta of test, kick started with some dbol on the front side ?





.pump.

 

[Ulter]

The only reason I've ever tapered was because I don't seem to get any noticeable effect (in weight gain or strength) until about the 3 week of a cycle. So I thought it was a waste of gear to run the full dose the first week or two.

No offense bro but I got a chuckle out of that. The reason you don't notice the gains until the 3rd or 4th week is because it takes that long for your blood levels to get high enough to feel it. So your answer of using even less will not solve this problem for you but rather quite the opposite.
Also, you're using a self tapering gear so there is no need to taper on either end.

 

[DIVISION]

LMAO , DIV you never pull a punch but you always hit fair , never cheap.
I like that, props.

I agree, why Andropen?
What is wrong with a little bit of deca mixed with a whole lotta of test, kick started with some dbol on the front side ?

There's no point in cheap shots, I'd rather hit a kid str8 in the jaw to wake him up..........it gets the point across. Don't you think?

Andropens are a waste......I don't understand why he'd ever consider using those.

He'd be better off with some Test Cypionate or Sustanon....





DIV

 

[house_of_pain]

Thanks for all the well explained advice, with the exception of Div's unexplained opinion... (If you're not going to say why you don't like Andropen, then you're not providing me with anything to work with). And Chyllaxyn... Andropen 275 "IS" Test.

Personally, I've never tried Andropen 275 as the Test part of my stack before, I've always just used ol reliable Test-depot. But the mixture of fast and slow acting Test's seemed like a good match for the fast and slow acting mixture of Tren's in Trinabol 150. Both are new gear choices for me that I've never tried before.

In any case, I'm going to take the advice to skip the tapering and just front load with dbol for 4 weeks. I don't think I'm ready for doubling up my oils on the front end though. I only do rotating quad injections, so I'd rather err on the side of safety and not run the risk of ending up with an oil abcess. (2 1/2 cc's per single quad injection is the most I've ever tried).

 

[silverbackn]

I would skip the taper. As long as your doses are supraphysiological then your body will still have no reason to start restoring it's natural levels again. There is no benefit to tapering at the end.

 

[house_of_pain]

There seems to be a little confusion here with regard to Andropen 275. Andropen "is" Test... It "includes" Test Cyp... And is very "similar" to Sust in that it uses fast and slow acting mixtures of Test...

Andropen 275 is a "stack" of
Testosterone Acetate 20mg
Testosterone Decanoate 90mg
Testosterone Propionate 45mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate 45mg
Testosterone Cypionate 75mg
Per ml...

Sust is a stack of:
Testosterone decanoate 100mg
Testosterone propionate 30mg
Testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg
Testosterone isocaproate 60mg

 

[silverbackn]

BTW, what the hell is andropen? I'm apparently a dumb fucking newb on this one

 

[Tux]

Man, only ONE guy isn't clueless. Andropen is BD's new test blend, much like sustanon. So Div, he's GOT sustanon in his cycle basically, so now that your reasoning is shot to hell, what do you disapprove of now?

 

[DIVISION]

Man, only ONE guy isn't clueless. Andropen is BD's new test blend, much like sustanon. So Div, he's GOT sustanon in his cycle basically, so now that your reasoning is shot to hell, what do you disapprove of now?

I know what it is, I said it was staggered dose Test......I just don't like the product. I prefer Sustanon.




DIV

 

[bicepts101]

fuck that single esters for me people..that shit just screams side-effects for me

 

[asianlover]

I know what it is, I said it was staggered dose Test......I just don't like the product. I prefer Sustanon.




DIV

have you used andropen?

 

[asianlover]

hey house of pain. PLEASE keep a cycle log on this one. i really want to give adropen a shot and would like to see how you cycle goes.

 

[chyllaxyn]

There seems to be a little confusion here with regard to Andropen 275. Andropen "is" Test... It "includes" Test Cyp... And is very "similar" to Sust in that it uses fast and slow acting mixtures of Test...

Andropen 275 is a "stack" of
Testosterone Acetate 20mg
Testosterone Decanoate 90mg
Testosterone Propionate 45mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate 45mg
Testosterone Cypionate 75mg
Per ml...

Sust is a stack of:
Testosterone decanoate 100mg
Testosterone propionate 30mg
Testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg
Testosterone isocaproate 60mg

I stand corrected, I thought it was a single ester, and it's hard to beat Test E in that respect.

Blends are good though, I think what's getting you the strange looks has not been asked.

Why?

Andropen seems like an interesting blend, but why?
Are you just feeling adventurous? Fair nuff, but you would have to give me some pretty compelling reasons to get me away from Omna at <$5 / 250ml
Now I don’t’ prescribe to the notion that “test is test” other wise we wouldn’t have 5 page debates on the subject;
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5938
Everyone’s body chemistry and genetics are different so I can see how people may react differently to different esters and blends. So if you have some reasoning there I’m all ears.
Otherwise stop rocking the boat and take your dbol like a good broly , jack some Omna, and go pump, , , and for god sakes throw a nice bitch with a sweet ass up there on your avatar instead of that gay ass pic from muscle-rama.
j/k j/k j/k j/k
thanks for the education on Andropen,
let us know how it goes.

 

[DIVISION]

have you used andropen?

Hello NO!

Sustanon over Andropen ALL DAY!!!!

Heard enough bro's tell me about their andropen experiences.....

That's more than enough reason not to use it.






DIV

 

[asianlover]

Hello NO!
Heard enough bro's tell me about their andropen experiences.....
DIV

what was so bad about it? does the accetate have anything to do with that.

do you prefer sust to enth or any other long sigle ester.

 

[house_of_pain]

... for god sakes throw a nice bitch with a sweet ass up there on your avatar instead of that gay ass pic from muscle-rama.

Chyllaxyn... Just for your info... That "gay ass pic" in my avatar is "MY" body and was just taken about 3 weeks ago.

Sustanon over Andropen ALL DAY!!!!
Heard enough bro's tell me about their andropen experiences....

Div... So you "heard" from someone else that the Andropen Fast/Slow Test mix is "somehow" worse than the Fast/Slow Test mix in Sustanon... Again, thanks for another unqualified opinion...

***********

Anyway..... As I said before, thanks for all of those that took the time to explain their points around tapering, dosages, etc... (Especially Tux). I'll be starting the originally descibed cycle as of today, minus the tapering, and with a 4 week front load on the dbol only. AsianLover, I'll be sure to keep a cycle log on this one since this is a totally new stack for me. And I'll be sure to update my "gay ass pic" with a new one to show the visible physical changes...