Nelson Montana-I'm calling you out!

[Nelson Montana]

ALA: You're being ridiculous.

Go to my site and check out the last color picture. I'd say I had pretty good abs way before I had surgery. If anything, the surgery left my skin a little loose. This is what I meant by "some regrets."

Ab definition is to a great degree, anatomical. If they're set close to the epidermous, they'll be more clear, but if they're set back, they won't be as sharp even with low bf% (e.g. Boyer Coe) I felt the procedure did little in that regard, but once again, it's nice to have a little extra taken out of the obliques and I would recommend it. It's no more expensive than a couple of cycles.

Attempting to attack my integrity on this is purely impotent. Do you have an issue with something specific? Did you read the book? As mentioned, I'll try to address as much as I can but quibbling over things like how recent a photo is just wastes my time and the time of those who read these posts trying to extract useable information.

Hell, Mike Menzter used pictures of himself that were over 20 years old! BTW, We were the same age and at age 45 I'd say I looked a lot better than he did, and I had "puny guy" genetics and he had "Mr. Universe genetics". But I digress.

 

[Thaibox]

I'm not going to buy your book so please, if you will, at least humor me with a brief explanation for the following since you did state them on the board....

Insulin, DNP, Synthol,and Nubain have no place in real bodybulding.

Could you have found 4 more different compounds than these. Insulin has been proven to be highly effective when used properly. I have personally used it several times with outstanding success. Many have had excellent results with DNP. It is just a cut up drug that takes more than the intellect of an idiot to use. Nubain is a painkiller, why the hell would you even list it here?

Yes, I have personal experience with all three of these...do you?

Nutrient timing will have no effect on how you look in the long run.

Are you referring to daily nutrient intake, as in utilizing windows? If so, I can't believe you are making this statement. This is like saying a good exhaust system will make my car a little faster today, but not next week. Please clarify.

The effect of the glycemic index of a food is way overstated.

How is it overstated? Its simple mathmatics and logic. 2+2=4 is difficult to overstate. I suppose I could yell it, but it would still equal 4.

GH is the most over-rated drug in the sport.

This may be true simply because it is hyped to hell. However, this does not take away from its value in the least, nor its effectiveness if used properly.

Have you used GH Nelson?

I also remember you saying that Glutamine and Creatine are both completely worthless. I believe you stated that creatine could be mimicked by "salty pizza crust." You do realize that you pulled this out of your ass, correct?

What upsets me the most about your approach Mr Montana is you make yourself appear arrogant enough to believe that everything you say should be taken as gospel. Is this simply because you have written a book? Hitler wrote a book. Johnny Cochran wrote a book. Should we bow to their divine knowledge as well? Should we disredard empirical or anecdotal eveidence given to us by veterans and pros, simply because you found someone to print your information between two covers? The front one depicting a Men's health model that epitomizes the "fitness" look that very few real bodybuilders give a shit for? This must be representative of your target 'ideal'(and therefore embodies the contents of the text) since it is on the cover of your book, right?

I realized I haven't written a book . I do however have ten years experience under the bar and have brought my body from 140 lbs to 265 lbs. I believe that is enough to warrant a place on the table for you to explain your reasoning for the above statements(and be noted as being wrong in front of everyone)

I don't have researched documents for everything I espose since much of it is based on real world evidence and no studies have yet been conducted, but I believe I present logical reasoning to my theories.

You "believe" that you present "logical reasoning" to your "THEORIES"...........not to strong of a base to stand on there Nelson

 

[OKIE]

Wow this thread is interesting to say the least...

I have a couple of questions...When you say cardio is bad for building your physique, are you talking about excersises like sprints as well or just low resistance cardio activities. What about boxing? Also, you mention you do not like vet gear and say that low dose short cycles promote keeping gains better...Can you give an example of a standard low dose cycle that you would recommend to an intermediate bodybuilder? Thanks for the input.

 

[Nelson Montana]

So now I'm in league with Johnnie Cochran and Hitler? Geezus-fucking-criss.

Look man, I don't give a shit that you used DNP. That's just an admission of stupidity.

Yes, I've used GH.

Yes, glutamine doesn't put on muscle.

The 'salty pizza" comment was a joke about water retention.

Now this one is tough, so pay attention. Read slowly so you don't miss anything. Ready? Here goes:

The fact that I look like a fitness model does not mean that's the look I advocate for members of this board. THE POINT IS...I went from a genetically deficient middle aged man to a fitness model at age 40, BY USING HARD CORE BODYBUILDING TECHNIQUES!!! What do you think I got that way by playing tennis???

I'll bet if you had a chance to learn about making money from a guy who inhereted ten millions or a guy who started with nothing and made five millon dollars, you'd ask the guy who inhereted it. After all, he has ten and the other guy just has five, right?


Once again, I offer to address intelligent questions and I wind up spelling things out for antagonists with nothing to offer other than to make erroneouss judgements. My appologies to everyone.

 

[Thaibox]

Okay, so by this post, we can conclude that ...

A. you're unable to recognize when someone has addressed you with mature, respectful questions and criticism by the fact that you just jumped at me like a high school prick.

B. You can't answer ANY of my questions. Therefore you are unable to support your own claims and everything you say can be disregarded as crap.

C. You are unable to understand that I was noting that anyone with any standards can write a book. You took it instead that I was comparing you to the 2 arbitrary authors I used.

Now this one is tough, so pay attention. Read slowly so you don't miss anything. Ready? Here goes:

From a middle aged man defending his work from criticism, you certainly aren't doing a very good job of showing us a maturity that we may respect enough to listen to by these kind of statements. Why would you bother to resort to this? Keep to the argument, or are you getting frustrated that you may actually be wrong about something????

Yes, glutamine doesn't put on muscle.

You didn't say this. You said it is completely worthless. Water doesn't put on muscle either, nor does Vitamin C, or a hundred other important nutrients. Does that make them worthless to the BB??

Did you not read my stats Nelson? I came from a 140lb weenie ectomorph to 265lbs, and you're preaching to me about overcoming? I'm the guy that started out with 5 dollars slick.

Age? 40 isn't shit my friend.....Do you wish me to list off 100 guys that have acheived monsterous proportions and amazing progress well into their 60's?????
My own father is 64 and benches almost 3 plates clean for reps.

Once again, I offer to address intelligent questions and I wind up spelling things out for antagonists with nothing to offer other than to make erroneouss judgements. My appologies to everyone.

Antogonist with nothing to offer execpt erroneous judgements? How is that. I asked questions with a legit platform, questions that you will not answer. Instead you dance around it? You're making yourself look very bad. If you simply addressed these things, this thread would have ended by now. Oh yeah, find one other place that I'm an "antagonist." I simply don't like people with bullshit opinions that try to push them off as gospel on others, in turn ruining those other peoples' chances at reaching their genetic potentials.


Have you ever once qualified yourself. Have you ever once used the words..."in my opinion.....", or "I belive that..."?





Are you going to attack me again and prove to us all that you're complete bullshit, unable to sustantiate anything you have said?

Or are you going to address my questions and criticisms like a goddamn professional?

If its going to be the former, don't waste our time. Just say "I suck"

 

[Thaibox]

By the way Nelson, what I'm addressing here are mostly just a few of the things you have talked about late in this thread. I'd like to dive into your posts, and see what other profound knowledge you have graced the boards with.



Nelson is making me sound out of line. If this is the case, would others please let me know and I will stop. I think I'm being a fairly nice guy with some legit issues, but(unlike Nelson) I could be wrong.

 

[Thaibox]

Over an hour later and the crickets are still chirping

 

[OKIE]

Bump for NM to respond to my questions...

And for Thaibox...I don't think anyone is reacting out of line here as long as we keep it on a professional level and be open-minded of others opinions (I'm not directing that statement at anyone imparticular). I think skepticism over new ideas and theories is beneficial and should be expected. We need to all remember that what works for me may not work for you. There isn't a model diet and training program that will yield positive results for everyone. Also for those who like to flame NM for his picture because he is not a mass monster...we are not all going for the same look either. I may be trying to look like Dorian, while someone else may prefer the Abercrombie look. To each his own. As long as we stay open minded and provide intelligent dialogue, this can remain a great board and a very informative thread!

 

[Thaibox]

And for Thaibox...I don't think anyone is reacting out of line here as long as we keep it on a professional level and be open-minded of others opinions (I'm not directing that statement at anyone imparticular). I think skepticism over new ideas and theories is beneficial and should be expected. We need to all remember that what works for me may not work for you. There isn't a model diet and training program that will yield positive results for everyone. Also for those who like to flame NM for his picture because he is not a mass monster...we are not all going for the same look either. I may be trying to look like Dorian, while someone else may prefer the Abercrombie look. To each his own. As long as we stay open minded and provide intelligent dialogue, this can remain a great board and a very informative thread!

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[mvmaxx]

Nelson is making me sound out of line. If this is the case, would others please let me know and I will stop. I think I'm being a fairly nice guy with some legit issues, but(unlike Nelson) I could be wrong.

Actually I found your original post contained legitimate questions that warranted serious replies. I was actually interested in hearing his response. Until that is, I read his response.

 

[Nelson Montana]

This is so funny.

Thaibox: First of all, your questions were vauge and non-specific. Then when you don't get a detailed response you accuse my information as crap. You say that I'm talking out my ass. You disregard my statement about progress and then belittle it by telling me how much your father can bench. And then you get all pissy because I don't didn't get back to you fast enough? That isn't out of line?

In case you weren't aware of it, Thaibox -- I don't work for you. I have no responsibility to answer every point to your satisfaction. I go on the boards to exchange info and to offer a service where I can -- not to prove myself to some guy who, once again, HASN'T EVEN READ THE BOOK!!!

I've had some of the biggest names in the industry praise my work, and you think I'm sidestepping YOU?

Can somebody explain this to this guy, or is it me?

I tell you what: You went from 140 as an adult to 265 with no gear and kept your bf% below 10%??? If so, I think you should write a book. And I'll read it.

 

[Tim_Bass]

Lol. This thread has been my favorite thread yet. NM is making perfectly acceptable, reasonable, and justifyable statements. He is by no means extreme whatsoever. People are critiquing him from all sorts of angles, as if one flaw in his logic undoes his entire philosophy on bodybuilding.

So far, I think everyone who has stepped up to present such 'flaws' has been directly confronted and effectively rebuked. Thankfully, I am enjoying this debate greatly, so please keep up the arguing. Great stuff.

 

[FreakMonster]

Lol. This thread has been my favorite thread yet. NM is making perfectly acceptable, reasonable, and justifyable statements. He is by no means extreme whatsoever. People are critiquing him from all sorts of angles, as if one flaw in his logic undoes his entire philosophy on bodybuilding.

So far, I think everyone who has stepped up to present such 'flaws' has been directly confronted and effectively rebuked. Thankfully, I am enjoying this debate greatly, so please keep up the arguing. Great stuff.

I don't think Nelson knows how to answer some fucking simple questions!!!!!

 

[The Almighty]

Shit I dont know about everyone else but I have A LOT of newfound respect for Nelson. He can expect me to purchase his book soon and give it and read it cover-to-cover.

IMO this man has answered literally hundreds of questions in this thread alone maturely and fairly. So far the only guys who have questioned him that showed some respect at all on this thread are Mischief and Thaibox. Everyone else saying he is the devil because he had some surgery done or saying that he is not a freak needs to get their head out of their loose anus.

Bodybuilding is just that...building a better body. Who gives two shits if you want to weigh 200 pounds or 400 pounds. You are working for it, and that is all that matters. I hope we all can at least agree on that.

 

[MohawkMuscle]

Yo Guys... Why is everyone chewing this guy up? If you dont like what he has to say move on.

I forone enjoy reading his articles in the mags...

I just read the one about the roman chair situps... Now I use it all the time.

 

[mvmaxx]

Bodybuilding is just that...building a better body. Who gives two shits if you want to weigh 200 pounds or 400 pounds. You are working for it, and that is all that matters. I hope we all can at least agree on that.

....or 140lbs as it may be in your case.


BTW, I just added the ability to view signatures. Who's that small guy next to Homer?

Oh yes and we can all agree you're a

 

[mvmaxx]

Oh and Nelson, I have the utmost respect for anyone who writes a book. Writing a book is an extremely time consuming and difficult task to accomplish.

kudos to you.

 

[The Almighty]

....or 140lbs as it may be in your case.


BTW, I just added the ability to view signatures. Who's that small guy next to Homer?

Oh yes and we can all agree you're a

Bastard, dont make me come over there.

 

[FreakMonster]

Yo Guys... Why is everyone chewing this guy up? If you dont like what he has to say move on.

I forone enjoy reading his articles in the mags...

I just read the one about the roman chair situps... Now I use it all the time.

Can you explain what Roman Chair situps are?

 

[jboldman]

All of this has a familiar ring to it, He wore me down with his dogmatic attitude. i have no doubt that what Nelson says has "some" merit but by his blatant disregard of others experiences and published research he tends to alienate! I did a long post last night and find I screwed up and did not post it(since i can not find it so here goes again. I believe what we have here is a problem of "black and white" without any shades of gray. Nelson refuses to think there is any merit in aerobics for weight loss and CVH where, in fact, both published and experiential data indicate it is just plain true. Does that mean that weight lifting does not play a significant role in fat loss and CVH, of course not, they both can and do. I think what Nelson was referring to with his food timing point was something that was discussed earlier, that is, exercise perfomed on an empty stomach preferentially burns fat. Get a life, this is fact, I will put up all the studies you need to demonstrate this. It has also been shown that interval training burns more fat "overall" after taking into account longer term metabolic effects. Now, before you get your undies in a bundle, Nelson, it is not inconceivable that the way you train is in fact a form of interval training which mixes anaerobic and aerobic conditioning during the bout of exercise. So, even though we know that high intensity exercise(VO2 Max 70%+ ) preferentially burns carbohydrates not fat the overall effects becomes an effective fat burner eliminating the need for aerobics in "your" training program. The rub here is nelson's inability to see another point of view that does not agree with his even if it is founded in solid science and experience. Just to show that there are no hard feelings and that i am able to change my beliefs based on solid science(yes I have gained some knowledge during this thread but thru my own research and others not any gems of wisdom from Nelson, here is a study that supports Nelson's belief that weightlifting is better for fat burning than aerobics of the same caloric expenditure(given this experimental paradigm).:
============================================
J Appl Physiol 2002 Oct 11; [epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

Effect of Resistance Exercise on Postprandial Lipemia.

Petitt DS, Arngrimsson SA, Cureton KJ.

Department of Exercise Science, University of Georgia, Athens, GA, USA.

The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of resistance exercise on postprandial lipemia. Fourteen young men and women participated in each of three treatments: 1) control (CON), 2) resistance exercise (RE), and 3) aerobic exercise (AE) estimated to have an energy expenditure (EE) equal that for RE. Each trial consisted of performing a treatment on Day 1 and ingesting a fat-tolerance test meal 16 hours later (Day 2). Resting metabolic rate and fat oxidation were measured at baseline and at 3 and 6 hours postprandial on Day 2. Blood was collected at baseline and at 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 hours after meal ingestion. RE and AE were similar in EE (1.7 +/- 0.1 vs 1.6 +/- 0.1 MJ, respectively; means +/- SE), as measured using the Cosmed K4b(2). Baseline triglycerides (TG) were significantly lower after RE than after CON (19%) and AE (21%). Further, the area under the postprandial response curve (AUC) for TG, adjusted for baseline differences, was significantly lower after RE than after CON (14%) and AE (18%). Resting fat oxidation was significantly greater after RE than after CON (21%) and AE (28%). These results indicate that resistance exercise lowers baseline and postprandial TG, and increases resting fat oxidation, 16 hours after exercise.

 

[Nelson Montana]

For the record: I never said aerobics had no benifit. My point is, again, that they are less effective than weight training, therefore there's no need to do them. If you need to burn more fat, work out more.

Interval raining is similar to high rep weight training with short rest periods, except that high rep weight lifting will increase mitochondria which leads to more potential muscle growth. Aerobics does not.

Every study I've seen concerning the benefits of training on an empty stomach has been flawed -- like the one where they tested the subjects in a fasted state, then weeks later tested them in an unfasted state and the fat loss was slightly less. Duh. Fat loss is always greater at the beginning of an exercise regime.

Thanks for the posted study j. Never saw that one. But it isn't something I didn't already know. : )

 

[Ulter]

Can someone shoot this thread and put it out of it's misery?

 

[Thaibox]

Can someone shoot this thread and put it out of it's misery?

Might as well.
Trying to have a mature, beneficial discussion with this guy is a waste of time.

 

[Fonz]

<Fonz keeps munching on some high-protein popcorn>

This thread is a hoot..............

Fonz

 

[MohawkMuscle]

Im going to add to the fun!


Nelson! Can you swallow winni??

 

[gtaman]

What I'm seeing here are a lot of people who are too cheap to lay out $39.95 for a book. Hey, maybe Nelson is an idiot. Maybe only 1 out of 5 points make sense.

I've read a lot of books by people who aren't right about everything. I happen to think that if Nelson makes us think harder about just one thing - the "need" for aerobics - then we have got something out of this whole business.

You can cut and paste all the long-winded scientific studies you want, but as more evidence gathers of those who show great success in bodybuilding / body composition without "cardio"... there is obviously something to this. There are probably several paths to muscularity & low BF, and Nelson's might just be the one that works well for many.

If you get $30 worth of entertainment and $9.95 worth of food for thought, then it's been worth it. You don't have to be 265 lbs. or a PhD to write a useful book last time I checked.

Incidentally I do cardio, but I am thinking of cutting back on the "exercise bike" / stairclimber routine. It only burns fat on me significantly when done at high intensity, in some form of interval or tempo training (eg. hockey, or cross country skiing with a lot of uphill sections).

I know there are assholes out there who can eat pizza and still be ripped. I'd have to say those are genetic freaks.

Well, off to buy the book (and have my abs etched so I can eat pizza like Nelson).

 

[Thaibox]

high-protein popcorn. Damn that would be nice

 

[Mischief]

Hahaha, I hadn't checked this thread for a few days, it's gotten good. I'm actually glad I've stayed out of it. That Testosterone Article is new to me, definetely changes things even more, but I'll keep my personal opinions about that to myself.

A few points, Nelson says that Synthol has no place in Bodybuilding. I happen to agree, but I'm also strongly opposed to plastic surgery, especially if you ever plan on getting on a stage. What is the logic in detesting the artificial "implantation / injection" of a substance INTO your body (synthol), but condoning the artificial / surgical REMOVAL of a substance from the body? I'll never understand the logic to this. Nelson?

...If you need to burn more fat, work out more.

Interval raining is similar to high rep weight training with short rest periods, except that high rep weight lifting will increase mitochondria which leads to more potential muscle growth. Aerobics does not...

EVERYONE, I've EVER trained, or trained with has found that especially during contest prep, switching the way you workout is foolish, and usually leads to dissappointing results. Weight training has one primary purpose, to build muscle. Even in contest prep, where the environment is not suitable for growth, you train like it is anyway. This is THE most effective way to retain as much muscle as possible while dieting. Lift Heavy, lower reps, all the way through, make your body fight to hold on to muscle while you loose "weight", by knowing it needs the then precious muscle for your heavy workouts. This means, adequate rest between sets, reps no higher than 8, except maybe squats as you get leaner, etc.

Switching to an "interval training" is foolish IMO. One, if you're training heavy, you need time to recooperate, which means leave that muscle alone as much as possible before the next heavy workout. Second, as soon as your body realizes that it's workouts are lighter (interval), and there is a caloric defeceit, it's going to be far more willing to let go of muscle. I've seen this happen time and time again as people switch to high reps pre-contest to "define" the muscle (they get smaller and flat). (**BTW: This is retarded and impossilbe; your muscle looks like what it will always look like, it's simply a matter of how much fat is covering it, ever see an anatomy chart in gym class? that's not from etching in lines from high reps).

Nonimpact cardio is the best way to allow your body to rest, and recover from the ongoing heavy workouts, while raising your metabolism and burning calories beyond what the HIT style workouts provide (how ever much is need to reach X degree of a caloric defeciet). Summary:-Workouts-brief and intense, anything more is counter-productive. Heavy trained muscle need rest, DON'T work them out MORE to burn calories, you're doing more damage than good.

 

[jboldman]

Longwinded studies? Too cheap to spend $40 bucks? Another critical thinker!

What I'm seeing here are a lot of people who are too cheap to lay out $39.95 for a book. Hey, maybe Nelson is an idiot. Maybe only 1 out of 5 points make sense.

I've read a lot of books by people who aren't right about everything. I happen to think that if Nelson makes us think harder about just one thing - the "need" for aerobics - then we have got something out of this whole business.

You can cut and paste all the long-winded scientific studies you want, but as more evidence gathers of those who show great success in bodybuilding / body composition without "cardio"... there is obviously something to this. There are probably several paths to muscularity & low BF, and Nelson's might just be the one that works well for many.

If you get $30 worth of entertainment and $9.95 worth of food for thought, then it's been worth it. You don't have to be 265 lbs. or a PhD to write a useful book last time I checked.

Incidentally I do cardio, but I am thinking of cutting back on the "exercise bike" / stairclimber routine. It only burns fat on me significantly when done at high intensity, in some form of interval or tempo training (eg. hockey, or cross country skiing with a lot of uphill sections).

I know there are assholes out there who can eat pizza and still be ripped. I'd have to say those are genetic freaks.

Well, off to buy the book (and have my abs etched so I can eat pizza like Nelson).

 

[Ant_ALA]

ALA: You're being ridiculous.

Attempting to attack my integrity on this is purely impotent. Do you have an issue with something specific? Did you read the book? As mentioned, I'll try to address as much as I can but quibbling over things like how recent a photo is just wastes my time and the time of those who read these posts trying to extract useable information.

Nelson,

What I am trying to get across to you is that your entire book is based on truth, now while I have not read your book (or am likely to) your posts here do not inspire me to.

Heres a basic summary of the problem I have:

You market a book as the "truth" of bodybuilding, which seems to rely heavily (from your posts on here) on anecdotal evidence at best, there doesn't appear to be any science behind your beliefs and you are refuting scientific studies that contradict you with no real back up other than "just trust me".

Now if you were to do this, and people chose to think of you as a man of integrity and therefore bought your book, then thats fine.

However when you are selectively holding back information (and that ab etching is a BIG piece of information), its kind of damaging to your integrity at best.

Who in their right mind would really take diet advice from a man who has a very small chance of storing fat on his abdomen?

Most guys here will want to see some science behind your arguments, then there are a small portion that will simply take you at your integrity. Without either of those I doubt there are many left.

 

[jboldman]

Damn Nelson, a guy throws you a bone and you still do not have the sense to grab it! <GRIN> Just for the fun of it, do a medline search on "substrate utilization" and "exercise" and after reading the 272 abstracts tell me all of them are flawed. I know that there are some out there that your approach appeals to but for me, I prefer to have my diet and exercise more founded in science and experience. i have reread this entire post and in it you have made some very sensible comments and some of the most outrageous illogical non-sequitors I have read in a long time. To bad you are unable to temper your approach to include some science and work on your logical powers of arguement. This thread has been the most entertaining one I have participated in in a long time, even learned some things so I grade it an A+, if nothing else you have an uncanny ability to stir things up! Good luck with your book. If you send me a free copy, I will read it and give you my unbiased opinion! <GRIN>

 

[Nelson Montana]

Freak Monster: I'd explain the Roman Chair sit-up but according to you I can't answer a simple fucking question, so I guess you're out of luck.

ALA: Again with the ab etching. Try and get a clue bro. Except for that latest shot, all the photos of me were BEFORE I HAD THE AB ETCHING!!!!

Did you catch that or do I need to repeat it again?

If my methods worked then, why does having a little fat taken out in later in life change anything? I also mentioned that the difference was nominal so no, I can't just eat anything and not train and still have abs. It doesn't work that way. I also had a wisdom tooth pulled but didn't mention that in the ad. Does that make me a liar too?

Are you enjoying this Fonz?

Misceif: Now you're babbling. Your comments aren't even worth addressing.

All I'll say is, if you can't see the difference between having a board certified surgeon remove a little fat and shooting some silicone you bought off the internet into your muscles, then I can't help you.

I think there's a lesson to be learned here. I have people write to me everyday asking questions, and if they approach me like a gentleman (or a lady) I'll try and help them out the best I can. But when someone screams at you, and demands that you answer them NOW, and argues before even hearing the full explanation, well, that person just comes off like a petulant child and will be ignored. This happens throughout all areas of life. The sooner that's understand, the better off you'll be. But, to bring this topic full circle, some people get it. Some people don't.

jbolderman: Glad to hear you learned a few things.

Are we done now?

 

[Ant_ALA]

ALA: Again with the ab etching. Try and get a clue bro. Except for that latest shot, all the photos of me were BEFORE I HAD THE AB ETCHING!!!!

Did you catch that or do I need to repeat it again?

If my methods worked then, why does having a little fat taken out in later in life change anything? I also mentioned that the difference was nominal so no, I can't just eat anything and not train and still have abs. It doesn't work that way. I also had a wisdom tooth pulled but didn't mention that in the ad. Does that make me a liar too?

Just a few points and then I will bow out of this thread, since I don't want you to have a heart attack or an aneurysm.

1. If you read my posts carefully you'll notice I never called you a liar, I said you were being economical with the truth, which you are.

2. Having no fat cells in you abdomen does make a big difference! It is clear that your abs are better than they ever were in the latest shot. It is also clear that fat accumulation in this region is a lot harder now!

3. Believe it or not I actually agree with some of what you say as well!

4. Is a wisdom tooth a cosmetic improvement to your physique? No. Odd statement.

5. Did you ever reconsider your pizza eating philosophy to get that six pack going at any time?

6. Please try not to swear at people who make arguments against your philosophies/judgement, I doubt it inspires faith in you.

 

[Spartacus]

Nelson,is your book only available as an e-book,or can it be purchased as an "ordinary" paper-type book?..I like to have an actual book to read at bed and/or while on the toilet etc.

 

[Mischief]

Misceif: Now you're babbling. Your comments aren't even worth addressing.

All I'll say is, if you can't see the difference between having a board certified surgeon remove a little fat and shooting some silicone you bought off the internet into your muscles, then I can't help you.

No there is no difference, you're just trying to rationalize your own lazy short cuts. You state, actually cry, "no matter how much weight I loose there is just this little itty bitty slab of fat on my abs that I can't make go bye-bye", so to you it's OK to have a Dr. go in surgically suck it out (nice short cut, you should of just added in some CARDIO). But there are guys, who no matter how hard they train, can not bring up their calves, or tris or whatever. There is a diffrence? No. I don't agree with synthol, but I actually sympathize with them more, because they may actually be genetically prohibited from having a 100% proportional physique. What you did was pure lazyness. ANYONE, through diet, training, and(hold your chest) cardio, can loose the fat in their midsection, ALL of it. You didn't diet or train hard enough, simple as that. Synthol is synthol. If someone had a Dr. order the raw material, and had the Doc inject it, then would it be OK? You make zero sense.

I'm getting back out of this because this is retarded. Look at Nelson's reponses, dude dodges every question that's thrown at him. I guess, "not worthy of a repsonse" means, "I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about." Nelson, you're clueless. No, you're worse than clueless; you and clueless go to the movies and clueless wears a t-shirt that says "I'm with stupid". Your blatent marketing and lack of ability to back up your statements with anything but, "because I said so" is laughable, but also annoying. Why don't you just go sit in the corner, and rub your two IQ points together and try to start a fire or something.
(Wow, it is more fun to just throw insults around instead of making any factual statements, if I keep this up, I'll have to change my handle to, "Mischief Montana")

-Mischief

 

[Nelson Montana]

Sure, why not?

ALA : Never swore at you. The wisdom tooth comment was a little thing called humor, which was obviously lost. And yes, I ate pizza every day before the surgery and managed a 9% bf.

Mischief: You are so full of shit.

People can lose every bit of fat, even in their 40's, as long as they do cardio??? Before I thought you were just annoying, I had no idea you were a full fledged idiot.

First of all, the surgery wasn't laziness -- it was an assigment that I agreed to.

Yeah, man. You got me. I know nothing. I had Dave Draper fooled. And Charles Poliquin fooled. And Dr.Eric Serrano, and Mauro DePasquale and Lou Schuler and Dan Duchaine and Dennis Weiss and Rick Collins fooled. But not you Mischief. You're way too clever for me.

 

[OKIE]

Nelson,

You said you would answer questions that were written in a gentleman-like manner, but you never answered mine. I was not being skeptical of you when I asked this...I was just curious what your take on it was. I know you do not work for me either, but in a way you do work for the public if you want people to buy your book. Here is my post from before:

I have a couple of questions...When you say cardio is bad for building your physique, are you talking about excersises like sprints as well or just low resistance cardio activities. What about boxing? Also, you mention you do not like vet gear and say that low dose short cycles promote keeping gains better...Can you give an example of a standard low dose cycle that you would recommend to an intermediate bodybuilder? Thanks for the input.

 

[Mischief]

Eating pizza everyday is not something to be proud of, it's pathetic. Also, not exactly the most trust worthy list. Poliquin who whored himself to Test.net (and Tribex or whatever), DePasquale who swears you're not taking in protein 33% of the day while you sleep, yet with his approved "night time?" protein ($100 / month, haha) this is a thing of the past. EXPERIENCE GAINS LIKE NEVER BEFORE!!! New NIGHTTIME protein!!! Yeah you're right Montana, your book belongs right in that category, my bad.

You didn't fool Duchaine. I've spoke and met with Dan several times, he'd have your ass for lunch. This is probably like your Dorian example (see earlier), quit pulling reputable people out of your ass and disgracing their memory.

Yes Montana, I am FAR too clever for you, thanks for reminding me as I now can put that on my Thanksgiving Day list of things I'm TRULY thankful for.

 

[Thaibox]

and if they approach me like a gentleman (or a lady) I'll try and help them out the best I can. But when someone screams at you, and demands that you answer them NOW, and argues before even hearing the full explanation, well, that person just comes off like a petulant child and will be ignored.

So why don't you answer the 47 questions that were given to you respectably by "gentlemen" and stop dancing around them like a little kid that just got caught in a lie??????? I showed you undue respect in my previous posts. Read them again.

If you don't address the questions, all you will accomplish is proving to everyone that you're completely full of shit. You answered how many of my questions??? ZERO!!!

I'm looking forward to seeing your well articulated, strongly supported arguments(stated maturely and professionally of course) to address the questions and criticisms given to you by so many members

I like to have an actual book to read at bed and/or while on the toilet etc.

Yeah, what I would do with his book involves the toilet also.

 

[Nelson Montana]

OKEE: Sorry bro, it got lost in the shuffle.
No, sprints aren't aerobic, they're anerobic. They're a form of high intensity stress that can't be maintained for much more than a minute -- which is why they're so effective. 20 minutes of interval sprints will raise HR, build muscle and improve cardio output much better than jogging for an hour.

In terms of low dose cycles, a fully detailed explanation would be impossible in this forum but basically, I've found 3 week cycles of one injectable and one oral to work best. One highly androgenic and one that's more anabolic. (Lots of reasons for this, but it gets complicated) If I could choose the perfect combo, it would be either Primo and D-bol or Sus and Var.

Thaibox: YOu don't have enough question marks in your post, therefore I can't understand you.

Mischief: I'm glad your delusion of superiority will provide a nice Thanksgiving. When you get a chance, can you post a picture of yourself?

 

[jboldman]

<GRIN> let me see.... Nelson Montana and "well articulated, strongly supported arguments(stated maturely and professionally)...... Can you say oxymoron? Time to leave this thread as there is little or no chance of anything more positive coming from it. Moving on to thanksgiving and all that protein!

jb

"some people just can't get it!"

snip......

I'm looking forward to seeing your well articulated, strongly supported arguments(stated maturely and professionally of course) to address the questions and criticisms given to you by so many members:

 

[Thaibox]

In terms of low dose cycles, a fully detailed explanation would be impossible in this forum but basically, I've found 3 week cycles of one injectable and one oral to work best. One highly androgenic and one that's more anabolic. (Lots of reasons for this, but it gets complicated) If I could choose the perfect combo, it would be either Primo and D-bol or Sus and Var.

A fully detailed explanation would be impossible.....because you have no fucking explanation. You can't explain a damn thing can you Nelson?

"a fully detailed explanation would be impossible in this forum."
you idiot, thats what this forum is for.
"lots of reasons for this, but it gets complicated"
These are both statements indicative of someone who has no idea what they are talking about and therefore cannot explain their statements.

I swear to god, that I will give you my fucking car if you can explain the logic behind these 3 week cycles. No, you know what, I'll leave the fucking anabolic board for good if you can explain them.

A 3 week cycle of one injectable and one oral? I know you probably have a lot of room up there, but jesus, how many things are you going to pull out of your ass?

Primo and D-bol for 3 weeks? Sus and Var for 3 weeks? Why in the world would you stop using Sustenon at 3 weeks??? Do you even understand how Sus works? What the fuck are you talking about? "it would be either P and D or S and V," That makes no logical sense at all.


Nelson, I have clearly made many attempts at allowing you to support yourself, but you continue to avoid the concerns of myself and others. Since you refuse to support or answer to ANYTHING you have said, and only act like a high school kid, I will now justifiably respond in kind....

You are a true fucking dingus. You have no more knowledge about bodybuilding then the average shmuck doing curls at Bally's. You clearly have no knowledge of drugs at all. You read tidbits and regurgitate them inacurately and out of context making youself look stupid as hell and you don't even realize it. Even worse, some newbies will take your work as legit and follow your advice, sending them into a catabolic crash and burn. You keep asking us to praise your scrawny old ass because you use to look like shit, and you now look like shit with fake abs. You have no right to spout off your bullshit condescending attitude to anyone. The bodybuilding community is a tight one, and each person within has earned his or her rightful place through hard work under the iron and through the attainment of knowledge. You are like a green officer, placed only by politics, demanding respect from veteran soldiers. There's a reason that Dan Duchaine and you(in your ONE meeting) did not talk about bodybuilding....because he knew you were not a bodybuilder, so why waste his time. Thats why you talked about cars and comic books. You come on the board praising your work and cannot defend it under slight scrutiny. You are a fraud and do not deserve to call yourself a bodybuilder. Take up tennis with the other pompus sophistic pricks and save room on the boards for people who have something to give. I'm done with this waste of time thread as you clearly are a knob.

Twerp

 

[Fonz]

Freak Monster: I'd explain the Roman Chair sit-up but according to you I can't answer a simple fucking question, so I guess you're out of luck.

ALA: Again with the ab etching. Try and get a clue bro. Except for that latest shot, all the photos of me were BEFORE I HAD THE AB ETCHING!!!!

Did you catch that or do I need to repeat it again?

If my methods worked then, why does having a little fat taken out in later in life change anything? I also mentioned that the difference was nominal so no, I can't just eat anything and not train and still have abs. It doesn't work that way. I also had a wisdom tooth pulled but didn't mention that in the ad. Does that make me a liar too?

Are you enjoying this Fonz?

Misceif: Now you're babbling. Your comments aren't even worth addressing.

All I'll say is, if you can't see the difference between having a board certified surgeon remove a little fat and shooting some silicone you bought off the internet into your muscles, then I can't help you.

I think there's a lesson to be learned here. I have people write to me everyday asking questions, and if they approach me like a gentleman (or a lady) I'll try and help them out the best I can. But when someone screams at you, and demands that you answer them NOW, and argues before even hearing the full explanation, well, that person just comes off like a petulant child and will be ignored. This happens throughout all areas of life. The sooner that's understand, the better off you'll be. But, to bring this topic full circle, some people get it. Some people don't.

jbolderman: Glad to hear you learned a few things.

Are we done now?

LOL......Its just funny to me personally in retrospect because its almost always normally me in the middle of a heated discussion.......

Watching a heated discussion from a different perspective
is interesting..........

Fonz

 

[Nelson Montana]

Such anger. Such hatred.

You would think the people on the board were dictating world politics. It's just lifting weights folks. Chill out.

When I said I can't give a complete explanation I don't believe I was being unfair -- or am I expected to present 6 page dissertations to every post. Okee, did I give a reasonable answer, bro?

Thaibox: Since you're bringing up a comment I made in my eulogy of Dan Duchaine you're obviously familiar with my work from a while back. Apparently you have some long standing vendetta against me. I don't know why, and I don't give a shit what your problem is. But when you bring up things that I said as a reverent farewell to someone who has passed and use it as a personal attack, you go from being merely obnoxious to truly sickening.

You can spew all the diarrhea that your mouth can hold and I will not acknowledge anything you say. You aren't worth it. But believe it or not, I don't hate you. I pity you. You obviously have nothing better to do than to try to make yourself look superior by putting down others. Maybe your lack of class stems from the fact that you never learned about anything else besides bodybuilding. Maybe your muscles are all you have. I'm sorry.

You can grow a bigger shell but you'll still be a very little man. I wish you luck, and a healthy and happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Dr.S_badandy]

interesting thread

I've never posted on this board before, but i've been a vet on a couple other boards for years (primarly the UG in it's prime
) Anyway, i just had to post because i can see where both sides are coming from.......................Let me first say that i really don't know the folks on this board, so i'm in no way biased....

Hmmm, why is Nelson not answering any 'meaningful' questions? because he wants you to buy his book! which kinda makes sense to me. On the other hand it may be more beneficial for Nelson to just openly recognize such as true. Nelson, you seem to be articulate and smart enough to know you're dodging around every important question. Mischief (i think) had a great post which explained the basics of training and fat loss. I have been very involved in bb'ing for over ten years, and can attest to seeing many folks switch to more reps/lighter weight to contest prep (me being one of them)---you WILL loose much muscle this way. You will look flat and your metabolism will slow down from having less muscle.

I agree with much that Nelson is saying. I think cardio is overrated, but it does have it's place for some people. I've worked with many different diet strategies, and i believe diet alone can get you Very Lean; but can it get you 'contest' lean without cardio? For some, yes, but not for the majority.

Over the years I've collected Tons of books/info on the subject of bb'ing, diet, lifting, etc....... Nelson-- i thought about buying your book, but here's my problem----------I've got an entire hall closet full of bb'ing, diet, lifting, ect. books/info. Everything from Mike Mentzer to the Anabolic Diet, Bulgarian training, War 2000, Brawn, Super Squats.....thats' just the tip of the iceberg; i really haven't bought anything in a couple of years, though. Every book claims to be "THE" book. Many of them I bought out of pure curiousity, and i may have pulled a tidbit or two from some of them.
What i've done over the years is pool knowledge from everywhere i could, but i put Everything into practice. I've been a gueani pig (sp?) for a long time. Iv'e been between 165lbs-265lbs; i've tried almost every method of training, diet, you name it. I agree that sythol, DNP, and Insulin aren't real good choices; i'll never use them again, but i've used all of them. I've trained everyone from obese people to comp bb'ers

After all that rambling, here's my point-----I just can't phathom what you reveal in your book that i haven't seen or heard (that actually works or makes sense). That's probably why you are getting a lot of flack--- many hardcore folks know that the muscle mags are full of shit, and you can only get away with training 5days per week if you have great genetics (almost anything works for some of those folks). Most supplemnt companies are full of shit, blah, blah------we already know all that. Nelson, you haven't done a lot as far as hardcore bb'ing. don't get me wrong, you look good, bro; in fact, i'm down to around 200lbs as i just got tired of carrying all that mass. It just wasn't worth it anymore, But, If one one my clients wants to be 250+lbs I can get him there because i've had the experience (and i don't have real great bb'ing genetics; i had to work my ass off the reach my goals---- a couple i actually never reached 'cause i realized having a 31inch waist just isn't in the genetic cards)

I was very curious about your diet strategies, and nutrient timing philosophy. One can make a few simple diet changes to make a huge difference in thier physique. When you've been skinny all your life, it's easy to say that a specific type of diet doesn't have a major impact, but it's easier to stay lean if thats you natural tendency. To me, it sounds like your book may be a good change of direction for the people who are brainwashed by Muscle-Tech and 40 sets per workout training.......

I think it would be cool if you did actually answer some questions (with exerpts from the book), but i can understand if you don't. However, maybe if you did plunk down a couple chapters from your book (maybe your early X-Mas pres to us. hehe,) folks may actually buy it just 'cause you had the balls to do so


Dr.S.........

 

[3 Fortunes]

The Bodybuilding Truth

All I have to say is that I have read The Bodybuilding Truth and I think it's worth every cent.

It's not gospel, so you don't have to accept everything Nelson writes. I think that anyone who reads it will have a hard time saying it's not an enjoyable read.

3 Fortunes

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Ok, its not that cardio isn't necessary, because it most certainly is.

What is being overlooked here is that weightlifting, properly routined and executed, IS cardio.

Furthermore, it is more closely correlated to high intensity cardio, such as windsprints, and is also congruent to the anaerobic aspect of such a regimen.

Which is why it can be effective on its own for burning fat.

Cardio, in any form, is cardio, and when it involves explosive movements it is all the more effective.

See how easy?

 

[Thaibox]

I will not acknowledge anything you say.

Because you cannot

You obviously have nothing better to do than to try to make yourself look superior by putting down others.

Find one other person I have put down on these boards. If you do manage to find one, I'll show you 200 afirmations. It got to that point because you took it there and deserved every last word.

Maybe your lack of class stems from the fact that you never learned about anything else besides bodybuilding. Maybe your muscles are all you have. I'm sorry.

A masters in philosophy and a BS in Criminal Justice also. You should be sorry.

But when you bring up things that I said as a reverent farewell to someone who has passed and use it as a personal attack, you go from being merely obnoxious to truly sickening

You didn't even know Dan. You met him once, so don't try that shit.

You can grow a bigger shell but you'll still be a very little man. I wish you luck, and a healthy and happy Thanksgiving.

if you say so

 

[Nelson Montana]

I hate to waste everyone's time on one jerk (if anyone is even listening anymore) but I'll try to make sense one more time.

Thaibox: You're ranting like a lunatic about answering your questions but I have yet to hear a specific question. It seems like you want a detailed explanation of whatever query meanders though your mind.

Why it is it that Fukenshredded got the point on cardio? Maybe because he's an objective individual who can actually assess information and you're just hell-bent on being an a-hole. I'm sure hundreds of others got it too.

There's obviously a reason for your vehement hatred of me. Your inability to construct a reasonable argument and your persistence toward personal attacks proves that.

You don't know me. You don't know my relationship with Dan and I am not about to discuss it with you.

You have a masters in philosophy? That's very disappointing to hear. One would think that someone who studied thinking would be able to do so with some sense of logic and decorum.

I am not about to start printing chapters of my book (as one post so ludicrously suggested) in order to satisfy the whims of someone unwilling to learn or listen. Maybe you're not a bad guy. You just need to do some growing up. But please stop wasting everyones time. If you have a specific question you can PM me and I will answer it to the best of my ablity. Fair enough? Or do you just want to challange me? That's fine too. I like a spitited debate. But childish slander and tough guy tactics are not worth my time.

 

[Thaibox]

You don't like a debate, you like avoiding them. Childish slander and persistence towards personal attacks? Read my first posts nelson. They were nothing but respectful to you. They were clear criticisms and questions. Then, since you had no answers, and were afraid to address them, you were the one that resorted to "personal attacks and childish slander," so do not be foolish enough to try to pin that shit on me. Are you so blind that you missed that? I'm hell bent on being an asshole and hundreds of others got it? That must be why I've received multiple green Karmas from respected members for confronting you.

Are you serious that you need me to rewrite my questions? I'll gladly do so since you seem to have missed those few posts that clearly contained them. I will do so on this thread only if you address them like a fucking professional and don't play these stupid games any longer. However, I know you will not address them, because you haven't yet. The ONLY thing you have discussed is the cardio issue and that is it, out of all questions directed at you. Why is that Nelson?

Are you ready for a sound, professionally articulated debate or are you going to dodge the questions like a shifty criminal again?

 

[Thaibox]

Actually, nevermind. I'm done wasting my time with you. I'm going to go pick my ass now, its much more intellectually stimulating.

 

[biteme]

I would still like to know what are Nelson Montana's credentials? Where did his so called expert knowledge come from? Everyone knows that the magazines are full of lies. This is no secret. Hell, I could write a book from all the books and articles that I have read. Nothing new under the sun. If I want expert advice on how to get big, I'd like to talk to the big mofo's themselves. I'm sure they know a lot of shortcuts.

 

[Watson]

Who the fuk cares where he gets his credentials? He wrote a book, if you don't want to buy it, then don't buy it. I seriously can't see the point of bashing Nelson just because he's trying to help people. Why don't we just make a thread about every other person thats wrote an informational book, and bash the shit out of them too. You guys have no fuking life, if you sit on the internet all day and try to belittle people who have accomplished more than you. I love these stupid little "I could write a book too", comments. Go write one then and leave this guy alone, if it's that easy. Hey, Thaibox, do they even have weights down there in Antarctica? Or do you just lift iceblocks in your igloo? Fukin losers.

 

[biteme]

Who the fuk cares where he gets his credentials? He wrote a book, if you don't want to buy it, then don't buy it. I seriously can't see the point of bashing Nelson just because he's trying to help people. Why don't we just make a thread about every other person thats wrote an informational book, and bash the shit out of them too. You guys have no fuking life, if you sit on the internet all day and try to belittle people who have accomplished more than you. I love these stupid little "I could write a book too", comments. Go write one then and leave this guy alone, if it's that easy. Hey, Thaibox, do they even have weights down there in Antarctica? Or do you just lift iceblocks in your igloo? Fukin losers.

Who cares where he gets his credentials? Maybe his motivation is more to make money than to help people or do you ever ask yourself these questions? I expect some moronic response from you because it is apparent that's all your capable of.

 

[Watson]

Even if he helps one person reach thier goals or even gain insight, I'd say he did his job, and I've heard a lot more than 1 person compliment on his book.

All I have to say is that I have read The Bodybuilding Truth and I think it's worth every cent.

VERY good read. Give it a try.

It's a really good book, It will tell you a lot of things that you'll later realize is common sense.

Proves that point.

On another note, if everything Nelson preaches is bullshit, and all he wants to make is a buck, then I guess you guys are calling Quadsweep a liar too, right?

[/QUOTE]

For the USA Championships I did NO cardio. I was 3.4% @ 212#. I hate cardio! It makes me flat. I do not let any of my clients do it either! I agree 100% with Nelson.

Quad


Get a life you pathetic losers.

 

[Bigsatan13]

Wow! All I wanted to do was ask Nelson for pic to see if he practiced his methods and this turned into a promotional thread. Nelson, a free copy of your book as a token of graditude would be appriciated.


Also Karma from you other fucks! (Thaibox, you did the right thing!)

 

[gtaman]

Hey Thaibox, just curious, have you read the book yet?

A fully detailed explanation would be impossible.....because you have no fucking explanation. You can't explain a damn thing can you Nelson?

"a fully detailed explanation would be impossible in this forum."
you idiot, thats what this forum is for.
"lots of reasons for this, but it gets complicated"
These are both statements indicative of someone who has no idea what they are talking about and therefore cannot explain their statements.

I swear to god, that I will give you my fucking car if you can explain the logic behind these 3 week cycles. No, you know what, I'll leave the fucking anabolic board for good if you can explain them.

A 3 week cycle of one injectable and one oral? I know you probably have a lot of room up there, but jesus, how many things are you going to pull out of your ass?

Primo and D-bol for 3 weeks? Sus and Var for 3 weeks? Why in the world would you stop using Sustenon at 3 weeks??? Do you even understand how Sus works? What the fuck are you talking about? "it would be either P and D or S and V," That makes no logical sense at all.


Nelson, I have clearly made many attempts at allowing you to support yourself, but you continue to avoid the concerns of myself and others. Since you refuse to support or answer to ANYTHING you have said, and only act like a high school kid, I will now justifiably respond in kind....

You are a true fucking dingus. You have no more knowledge about bodybuilding then the average shmuck doing curls at Bally's. You clearly have no knowledge of drugs at all. You read tidbits and regurgitate them inacurately and out of context making youself look stupid as hell and you don't even realize it. Even worse, some newbies will take your work as legit and follow your advice, sending them into a catabolic crash and burn. You keep asking us to praise your scrawny old ass because you use to look like shit, and you now look like shit with fake abs. You have no right to spout off your bullshit condescending attitude to anyone. The bodybuilding community is a tight one, and each person within has earned his or her rightful place through hard work under the iron and through the attainment of knowledge. You are like a green officer, placed only by politics, demanding respect from veteran soldiers. There's a reason that Dan Duchaine and you(in your ONE meeting) did not talk about bodybuilding....because he knew you were not a bodybuilder, so why waste his time. Thats why you talked about cars and comic books. You come on the board praising your work and cannot defend it under slight scrutiny. You are a fraud and do not deserve to call yourself a bodybuilder. Take up tennis with the other pompus sophistic pricks and save room on the boards for people who have something to give. I'm done with this waste of time thread as you clearly are a knob.

Twerp

 

[Mischief]

 

[Thaibox]

Hey Thaibox, just curious, have you read the book yet?

Don't have to. If his conduct and presentation of material on these boards is indicative of the content of his book, then why would I waste my time?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I've been arguing with someone who lives in Antartica?!?! LOL!

Isn't it funny that when I asked this kid a direct question he couldn't answer it?

If anyone was swayed by this nit-wits prattle it's better off that they don't read my work. They probably wouldn't understand it anyway.

Hey Mischief: Feel free to post that picture of yourself anytime. I'm sure everyone is curious to see your 265 pound physique ripped to shreds from that cardio program you're on.

 

[Thaibox]

First off slick, simply because I have a flag there doesn't mean I live there. But even if I did, why would that change anything. I'm sure people in Antartica can spot a fraud just as easy. Is that the best argument you can come up with to impeach me? hehe

Secondly, how fucking dare you say shit about ME not answering a question you HYPOCRITICAL jackass. What fucking question is that. The one question I missed amongst all your inarticulate rambling while you where dodging every one of my questions? I just painfully re-read your last couple of posts. What question?

nit-wit? Thats original. Why don't you give up Nelson? You have proved to every one here that you are a complete meat head with insufficiant knowledge to support even your very own simple(read: foolish) claims.

While I was in college there was always that sophistic asshole in every class that liked to talk and spew forth bullshit while dancing around it with 13 year old circular logic, exactly as you are doing. You need to stop posting here because you're simply making yourself look worse everytime your mouth flaps open. Not to mention your potential book sales are plumeting as the enlightenment of my fellow members increases. I suppose I should just sit back, let you continue and enjoy as you make a total shit bag out of yourself, huh?

GIVE UP, GO HOME.

Oh yeah, and don't condesend to call me a 'kid' old man.

 

[OKIE]

This thread is getting intense...

Nelson: Thank you for answering my questions. I understand why you didn't leave a more detailed response to the cycle question. Your answer will suffice. I was hoping you wouldn't just tell me to read the book. Does your book contain more detailed info on cycles that you recommend? Can you briefly explain the high points your book touches on? Maybe listing the Chapter names or something? I may buy the book if it is what I am looking for. I don't know if I agree with a lot of your theories, but I am willing to recognize that I am not even 30 years old yet, and that I still have much to learn. I am open to new ideas and would be willing to try a few of them if I thought it would be worth my time. Obviously the book has something a little different than others or it wouldn't have been banned from many websites. Thank you for your time.

 

[Nelson Montana]

They have colleges where you live?

Actually this months sales have been excellent. Thanks.

I clearly mentioned that if you had a specific question you can e-mail me and I would try to answer it. I can't make it any simpler.

I suppose you see yourself as a paragon of righteousness simply because you've shit all over something you dislike and can't comprehend. When you grow up and move out of your mothers basement (or igloo, as it were) you'll learn that in the real world, nobody puts up with that behaviour. So have fun on your computer while you can jackass.

This is beyond absurd. I thought this board was to be an exchange of ideas but this fool has completely disrupted the process and turned it into a grade school rank-out session. If the other members are cool with this, I will gladly bow out of participating in further discussion for I have no time to try and teach simpletons how to converse in a civilized manner.

I'm through with this post. It's been fun. See you all elsewhere.

 

[Mischief]

I suppose you see yourself as a paragon of righteousness simply because you've shit all over something you dislike and can't comprehend. When you grow up and move out of your mothers basement (or igloo, as it were) you'll learn that in the real world, nobody puts up with that behaviour. So have fun on your computer while you can jackass.

That is one of the most hypocritical things I've ever heard in my life, haha, seriously. Pictures? no, I'm not going to post a picture, how would you even know it was me? you wouldn't, that's just a stupid idea. But if you're anywhere near St. Louis, I'll meet you in ANY gym, and I'll bet $10 to $1 that I'll run circles around you. That is a real offer, and remains open.

 

[Thaibox]

Your professionalism continues to impress.

Agreed, we will end this thread, as it has become a waste of space. I will provide a clean thread for us to debate as you see fit. No bullshit, simply two bodybuilders exchanging theories and ideas. If we even begin to get off topic, or I sense slander, I will personally delete the thread. I will not e-mail you with my questions, as you have posted your theories on this board and it is only right that you support them here as well. Please stop with the demeaning "kid" comments since I'm 27, I have ten years lifting experience, multiple college degrees, and enough bodybuilding knowledge to have a legit platform to discuss these things with you in a respectable, professional manner. And no, I do not live in my "parents basement," I live in my own house. This is my last post on this thread, and kindly ask you to join me on the new thread to show everyone that you can support your own statements. I'm sure you have enough faith in your knowldedge and work to join me.

Thank you sir

 

[Nelson Montana]

Okee. Sorry I overshot you. We must have posted at the same time. You're welcome for the info.

Actually, the new book will be more discript with drug info. The Bodybuilding Truth offers basic guideleines for safe steroid use, but for the most part, it's about training, nutrition, supplemenation, genetics and some "behind the scenes" info on the industry. There's also a section on "Secrets From Golden Age of Bodybuilding" which a lot of people seem to get a kick out of. If that sounds like something you'd enjoy, check it out. If not, wait for the follow up book. (Available in January)

Thaibox. Mischief. Jbolderman. I concede to your illusions of grandeur. Pics please. Put up or shut up.

Thai: You're 27? You act like you're 15.

 

[Thaibox]

Sorry, I don't post pics. I have too many tattoos, and considering the nature of discussion on this board, it would not be too lucradive for my type of profession to become known. I don't believe my superiors would be too happy with my anabolic interests. There are a few people on this board that know me and will support my statements. My measurements are 6'2" 263 lbs with pretty low bodyfat(unsure of exact %) I don't claim to be a monster. Anyway, I think its insignificant what mischief, jbolderman, or myself look like, since we are not the ones being questioned on this board.

 

[jboldman]

You know Nelson, I have never been anything but challenging in my posts. When you have made statements that i believed were untrue or not supported by current research and scientific standards I simply asked you to back them up with something other than "i say so!" Thus far you have been unable or unwilling to do so. When I compared your technique of training to a combination of high and low intensity cardio, i do not know what I am talking about, when fukkinshredded says it, he "gets it!" I have never resorted to calling names or denigating you on your pictures or bodybuild. I think the worst thing I did was indicate that if your book was as unsupported in its conclusions as your arguments here, I would be unlikely to buy it. Gosh darn! Hope you were able to sleep OK that night. When it became apparent that no more useful infromation was forthcoming, I quietly backed out of the discussion and avoided all the childish name calling and innuendo. Are you calling ME out? Do YOU have a recent picture say in the last 90 days or so other than the one we saw of you , what was it, 9 years ago? Would my pic convince you that I am right? Of course I have not had the advantage of ab etching and am quite a few years older but it is something that i would consider. I am not a monster but for a man closer to 60 than 50, I have been told that I look pretty good. I have been around for a while and am a seeker of knowledge but have a problem with someone who says it is so because he says it is so, where I come from we call that critical thinking or lack thereof. IF you want to put it forth as your opinion supported by your observations, no problem, it is when it crosses over into the realm of universal truth that it becomes a problem. Once again, my respect for you has dropped to a new low. And for gosh sakes, up your powers of observation and take note that my screen name is JBOLDMAN, not JBOLDERMAN although Bolderman does have a certain pizazz to it. Instead of continuing with this childish ranting, why don't you take up Thaibox on his offer of a mature adult discussion of some of the relevant questions asked in a respectful manner and answered with well thought out supported answers. No one has anything against your opinions just don't state them as fact and there will be no problems. i am sure everyone would benefit from a discussion of this nature and the members here would appreciate this approach to our "situation." I am sure that an open, honest, and intelligent discussion would increase the respect of the members for you, give you a chance to showcase your book, and ultimately benefit you with increased sales of your book.

 

[Thaibox]

And for gosh sakes, up your powers of observation and take note that my screen name is JBOLDMAN, not JBOLDERMAN

Sorry jb, I read it off his post, so I called you bolderman too.
jboldman
jboldman
jboldman

K, got it now

 

[jboldman]

Hey Thai, no problem. Congrats on the new thread, looks like it is off to a good start. No doubt I'll be adding a few pennies here and there to it.

jb