Need routine help!! PLEASE

[RGS83]

Heya!
My name is Ryan; I've been trying to get some solid information about bodybuilding/personal training and I'm at a loss and at my wits end!
I was wondering if someone can help!
It's long, but I figured it better to answer it all now then play PM/thread tag.

-I'm 20yrs old, 5'11ish at 155 lbs. Very little fat on me other than a small gut which is fading. I generally eat quite healthy (try to get 1g of protein per body lbs, but thats hard and $$, plus only good carbs, and yadda yadda yadda). I RARELY eat 'junk food'
To each his own, but my goals are not to be some giant Arnold, but simply to put on some mass, larger well defined muscles. I'd like to carry myself well and be a guy that not just anyone would want to jump in a fight with.

Over the last year and a half I've tried a few programs, namely the Body for life program which focus's on 'HIIT', but I didn't like that so much. Then I was doing upper body about every second day (1 exercise for chest/shoulders/biceps/tris, with reps like 12/10/8/6/. I was getting frustrated as i wasn't see anything, and I was told that perhaps i was over training.

SO for a little over a month my program has been pretty much:
-Day1 Chest
DB press
Incline DB press
Flies

-Day 2 Shoulders
Shoulder Press
Upright row
Front Raise
Side Raise

- Day 3 Biceps
DB curl
Concentration Curl
Preacher Curl (EZ curl bar)

- Day 4 Triceps
Skull Crushers with Triceps bar
One Arm Extensions
Kickbacks (I can't seem to get any weight and straighten my arm!?)

-Day 5 Off -- but i usually run or something (although I may just delete day 5 and start with day 1 again.)

-I do a light warm up before each specific exercise with little to no weight.
-Then I try to have the reps/sets look like 12-10/8/6/6/5-4. Or something along those lines. If i'm trying to do a 6 and I added too much weight and can only push out 4, then I usually do one more set of the original weight to push out 6.

-Over the last month or so as I do the DB bench press or Curl or whatever, I find that I'm stuck! Being able to only push out the same amount as I did on my previous workout of that muscle group (sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less depending on it's it early or late or tired ect.) Regardless of me taking Creatien or anything, I can't seem to pump more weight!! In comparison to the amount of time working out!
For example one month ago I DB pressed 12x40/ 8x50/ 3x55/ 6x50/ 6x50/ 3x55
A few days ago on my chest day I did 12x40lbs (per dumbbell)/ 8x50/ 6x55/ 5x55/ 4x55/ 6x50
(sometimes I'll do an extra set or 2 just because I don't feel fulfilled or like I had actually done something with just the 4-5 sets... even though I'm pressing as hard as I can and that there is no way I could squeeze one more rep out)

I workout at home with a standard bench and free weights as I don't have a spotter.
I hurt my ulna [forearm] a while back curling too much on the bar, so that's why I use the Dumb Bells.

Knowing that I can say that I have made nominal gains in definition and firmness in the muscles, HOWEVER I think that I should be considerable larger, stronger, and lifting alot more at this point in the game! I've been working out for over a year... The first little bit was messed up and wasn't doing it right or the program for me, but now it seems no matter what I do nothings happing?!

Keeping that in mind, is there anything you'd suggest or recommend?
-I try to do a fat burning/cardio 3-4 times a week so my muscles do go catabolic and break down.
-My back and legs are something I wouldn't mind rotating into my routine, although as it stands I can't fit them in to this routine, and they're not as pressing for my workout as lets say my shoulders or chest are.
-These workouts take about an hour; even though I'm told a workout shouldn't be more than 45 min??
-How often should I workout each muscle group??
-How are the reps and sets? I've heard some people mention that 1 good set of about 8-6 reps is the same as doing 2-3 more... Therefore there's no point in doing 8 sets when the same can be accomplished in 4-5??
With a program of a similar nature, how fast, and what kind of results can be expected? How do I measure if my gains are sub-par or if i'm right on the money and i'm just expecting too much too soon (I don't think I am at all though!)

Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated... I'm racking my brain trying to figure this out and I'm getting know where. I figure some practical advise might be best!!

Ryan
PM post or email at [email protected]

 

[ChinkNasty]

first off, I would recommend that you condense that material haha...not trying to be a dick but thats an awful lot to process...I would suggest going on a 5x5 routine and really kick that weight up bro...read the stickes on what that is (assuming you don't know what it is...) and work with it...it's what I've used the past 2 years and I'm almost benching twice my bw weight now all natural

good luck,
CN

 

[resonator]

How many calories are you eating a day?

 

[RGS83]

I've no clue how many calories i eat daily.

I eat like a horse, but of all healthy foods.
for ex. after eating 4 eggs for breakfast, through the span of my 8 hour day at work I ate 3 apples 1 or 2 oranges, bannana, coldcut sandwhich, 2 oatmeal cookies, and a granola like bar.... i just got off and i'm about to eat again.. yumm

i take 1 protien shake after my workout, and one in the morning unless i'm eating a protien rich breakfast... starting to eat 1 can of tuna/salmon ect a day aswell.

does that help??

I'm just at a loss, I don't know when or how i should arrange my sechdule to maximize my time.
My biggest issue, or fear is spending all this time working out and getting next to no where.

 

[zxe003]

I'd say you need to consider your work load and frequency. Have you been training with this 4/1 split a whole year without time off? If so, you may want to consider taking a rest for about a week or so, then come back hard and you should be able to break through some of your plateaus. Also, I think since you've been pushing out around eight sets per exercise without great results, you may want to cut back on the volume and throw in some more variety as well as the extra muscle groups you've been neglecting (legs/back).

As far as your current routine, the only changes I would make would be to leave out the front raises on shoulder day....you hit your anterior delts enough with your presses, upright rows and even inclines (on chest day). And then of course, throw in some more variety on all your exercises (I know this is challenging however, due to the fact that you're limited to what you have at home.)

-Also, you don't seem to be very fat, so why so much cardio? You may want to consider dropping cardio for a while or at least limiting it to only once or twice a week.

 

[resonator]

I am not a diet guru but I can see your calories are not nearly enough to be gaining. If you don't intake enough calories, your body will not grow. I'd say up your calories to see some gains, as long as you are giving your muscles stimulation AND feeding your muscles sufficient calories/protein, you WILL grow. Supplement some creatine, (5 grams before workout and 5 grams after) and drink a lot of water. Try not to drink caffeinated products as it may negate what the creatine is trying to do. And I strongly suggest you at least incorporate some back work into your routine!


*edit*
I would try a different routine too, like 5x5. Check the sticky at the top of the page for some ideas. Good Luck bro!

 

[RGS83]

Thanks guys.
I'm gonna read up on the 5x5.

This routine i've been on for only a short while (just over a month)... I'll try to eat a bit more haha!

My cardio is lucky if it's 3 times a week - too much you think?? Not fat, but i just plain don't want a gut anymore! hah

So then looking at this my real questions should be summized into:

1) How many sets/reps can i do before its just becoming a waste (after X amount you're not really doing anything as it's alreayd peaked at faileur)?

2) how long should my workout be?

3) How would you recommend I cycle in my back and legs -- Keeping in mind the 2 previous Q's (insofar that i want to efficiently workout the muscle groups i am now; and i can't spend 2-3 hours in the gym! )


Thanks!

 

[zxe003]

1) Your rep scheme is really best determined by trial and error (as far as what's best effective for you). You'll find bros on this board who train hard and heavy for only a couple of sets of 6-8 reps, and then you'll see monsters like WalkingBeast who will also train hard and heavy but with a lot more sets and a rep range between 12-15. To each his own. A big part of it has to do with feeling. If you are crunching out set after set, but feel like you're just going through the motions, then you need to concentrate on getting a better mind-muscle connection. Your body will tell you if you need more weight, or reps. 5x5 is a good starting point. I'd give this routine a shot and see how well you progress.

2) As for the duration of your workouts....again, this is subjective. If you're doing a lot more heavy compound lifts for that workout, you may want to take longer rest periods which would definitely lengthen your session time. I personally like to keep my rest periods very short (like 30-60 secs.) in order to improve my muscle endurance. My typical workout is between 30-60 mins. depending on the muscle group....and that's with a training partner.

3) I peronally like to give each group it's own day (but then I go with a 5/2 split). If you are still planning to train 4 days at a time (which is what I was doing previously), you may want to try: Day 1 Chest/Tri's, Day 2 Back/Bi's, Day 3 Delts/Traps, Day 4 Legs. On days 1 and 2, you should definitely do each in that order (chest then tri's and back then bi's) so that you don't drain your supporting muscles for the compound lifts you would do for chest and back.

 

[Deathbydefault]

i would suggest corns 3 day oldschool program or whatever.. its almost guarenteed you gain 5-10 lbs that is if you keep up the intensity and keep raising the weight and a decent diet..

 

[Dave949]

Where`s the leg work bro !!! You have to start squatting brother. If you don`t have the equipment to squat then at least do squats or lunges holding dumbells. Gotta work them leggs bro. Gotta gotta gotta.

Everyone gave you solid info. You have a light frame structure (5`11" @ 155) and IMHO I don`t feel high volume training is the way to go for you at this time.

Stick with the big daddy basic compound moves.... Deads, squats, MP pressing, rows, chins, dips, benches. Throw is a few standard curls and calf work. Nothing fancy. Keep it simple and work em hard, eat and rest. On the big daddy lifts, I would recommend pyramiding the weight and reps. IMHO...if your really pushing, no more than 5 sets is needed on the big daddy lifts.. On the smaller moves, straight reps of around 8 reps is fine @ 2 or 3 sets. Consider using an every other day split.

Of all the info shared with you on this post, I think the best is what ZXE003 gave to you which is: It will ultimately come down to trial and error and finding out what works best for you. This is called instinctive training. It takes time but eventually you will know.....just as all of us on this board have learned whats works for each of us as individuals.

As far as your current routine I would:
ADD LEG WORK.
Lose the pec flys.
Lose the shoulder laterals.
ADD LEG WORK.
Lose the concentration curls.
Lose the one arm tricep extensions.
Lose the tricep kickbacks. (its a girly exercise)
ADD LEG WORK.

keep asking questions. Keep reading.... keep experimenting.... keep lifting.

A winner never quits and a quitter never wins.

Pump on .....

 

[InTraining]

Yes!! I thought I was the only one to see the absence of leg work in this program...also lose the isolation stuff as Dave949 said...

The two things I wish I had done when I first started lifting was squats and deadlifts...also I focused WAY too much on stupid cable and isolation exercises that aren't needed.

The compound lifts are where it's at...if you are eating correctly you will be amazed at the amount of mass you are able to put on....

PM me anytime if you have any questions

 

[RGS83]

Thanks for the info man!
But I gotta ask, what is a big daddy lift? I can do squats at home, and perhaps deadlifts too i think, i'll read more up on the exact form.

So you suggest loosing the isolation exercises? (concentration curls, 1 arm extensions.) Obviously that would free up alot of time in my routine to mess around and play with; but if i'm taking away those exercises, shouldn't i replace them with something else?

Or are you suggesting that all I need todo is essentially:
Chest - DB press, Incline DB press
Bicepts - DB curls, preacher curl
Shoulders - Shoulder Press, Upright row
Tricepts - Skull crushers

Is there any cycle that you'd recommend inorder to workout my legs and back. (order of days? or what exercises I should be doing? number of reps per exercise?)

Thanks for everything!
Ryan

 

[Dave949]

But I gotta ask, what is a big daddy lift?

Big Daddy Lifts: Squats, Deadlifts, Bench presses, Power cleans, Clean and press/jerk, Bent over rows. Although I don`t consider Dips and Chins to be a true Big Daddy lift....they definetly run a very close second and should be mentioned as well.

Pump on .....

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

I workout at home with a standard bench and free weights as I don't have a spotter.

if your gonna add the Big Daddy lifts- buy this-

http://www.newyorkbarbells.tv/92552.html

 

[RGS83]

Unfortunatly, I've no room for that in my place!!

Is it still possible to effectivly and SAFELY workout my legs and back without a spotter at home with free weights??


I'm thinking I can workout my back with my Biscepts... as it was suggested that I loose some of my bicept exercises.

Aswell I was thinking of doing my legs with my Tris....

 

[Dave949]

Is it still possible to effectivly and SAFELY workout my legs and back without a spotter at home with free weights?? I'm thinking I can workout my back with my Biscepts... as it was suggested that I loose some of my bicept exercises. Aswell I was thinking of doing my legs with my Tris....

Absolutely you can effectively and safely work the legs and back without a spotter.

As far as doing back with bi`s...and tri`s with legs....yeah....that`ll work.

But lemme make a suggestion..... consider doing bi`s and tri`s with legs.
My logic being they are both small bodyparts and would fit in nicely with legs
AND your arms are getting hit twice a week. Once directly after doing your legs and they will get hit again indirectly when you do chest/shoulder and back work. If your gonna hit em hard....and you should....IMHO....You don`t need to do more than 3 - 5 sets each for your bi`s or tri`s.

OR you can do shoulders with your legs and move the direct arm work with your back and chest work. Like bi`s with your chest and tri`s with your back.

Nothing is written in stone. Try different combos and I guarantee you will find what works best for you.

Pump on .....

 

[RGS83]

I'm thinking I may make a trip to my gym once a cycle to work my back and legs in the same day... I hate going to the gym, i prefer at home. But I find it hard to do a safe and efficient workout for those groups without the machines.

Anyways - I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to what muscle group(s) I should be working, and on which days - bearing in mind my goals and time constraints (working full time in the summer, 2 days of the week i work a second job making it even harder)... during the rest of the year i'm in school, so not such a big deal, just have to workout around it.
But anyways, I'm told i shouldn't really need to be in a gym for anymore than 1 hour per workout - after that it's not intense, which is fine. i can dedicate about 1 hour a day, sometimes more if i'm going to run.

But can someone please help me as to when and how I should organize it.
Bear in mind; following a setup like in my first post on this thread, my workout take about an hour... I'll cut or add too it - I hate working out if it's not going to produce!!! (ie. i don't want to do some very small centralized exercize that will only tone or work some miniscule muscle when I think it's really going to help me)

Thanks for the imput!!
Ryan

 

[zxe003]

Anyways - I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to what muscle group(s) I should be working, and on which days - bearing in mind my goals and time constraints (working full time in the summer, 2 days of the week i work a second job making it even harder)... during the rest of the year i'm in school, so not such a big deal, just have to workout around it.
But anyways, I'm told i shouldn't really need to be in a gym for anymore than 1 hour per workout - after that it's not intense, which is fine. i can dedicate about 1 hour a day, sometimes more if i'm going to run.

But can someone please help me as to when and how I should organize it.
Bear in mind; following a setup like in my first post on this thread, my workout take about an hour... I'll cut or add too it - I hate working out if it's not going to produce!!! (ie. i don't want to do some very small centralized exercize that will only tone or work some miniscule muscle when I think it's really going to help me)

Thanks for the imput!!
Ryan

3) I peronally like to give each group it's own day (but then I go with a 5/2 split). If you are still planning to train 4 days at a time (which is what I was doing previously), you may want to try: Day 1 Chest/Tri's, Day 2 Back/Bi's, Day 3 Delts/Traps, Day 4 Legs. On days 1 and 2, you should definitely do each in that order (chest then tri's and back then bi's) so that you don't drain your supporting muscles for the compound lifts you would do for chest and back.

 

[RGS83]

HAH!
I getcha zxe003 - but can you add to it.

What I'm really asking for is if i stick with that program that i'm doing or the similar one you recommended... what exercises should I be doing for each muscle group to maximize my gain and time working out.
Not only to max my time, but I also ask this because as it stands now, doing my routine takes anywhere from 45 min - 1hour... and thats only 1 muscle group a day, therefore, what and how should i organize myself to workout 2 muscle groups in 1 day and keep it within an hour??

Also, why do people recommend working out the legs so much?? Other than lower bod strength and stability, and obviously over all apperance, is there something I'm missing or not understanding about working out my legs??

Thanks man, you've been a help!

 

[Dave949]

YES....there is something you are missing and not understanding. Lemme try to briefly explain. Your legs are half of your total body mass....meaning...half your body is your legs and glutes. When you work your legs with a compound exercise (squats) you are working half of your entire body with one single exercise. This has a PROFOUND effect not only on your legs but your ENTIRE BODY. It is called a systemic effect. When you squat hard it taxes everything and sends messages throughout your entire body to adapt to this demand and GROW...... by releasing testosterone, growth hormones, endorphins, neural function increases, enzymes, etc. Last and far from least your upper body also has to meet the demand of you shouldering ever increasing heavier poundages as your squat poundages goes up. And how does your upper body meet this demand ? IT GROWS. Its get your core, your stabilizers, your everything. If you want to get bigger, if you want to get stronger you must work your legs hard with a compound movement just as you must use com[pound movements for your upper body. Trust me on this one bro.

One day when you get a little experience under your belt we will introduce you
to super squats...............you ain`t seen nothing yet !!!

Pump on .....

 

[RGS83]

What I'm really asking for is if i stick with that program that i'm doing or the similar one you recommended... what exercises should I be doing for each muscle group to maximize my gain and time working out.
Not only to max my time, but I also ask this because as it stands now, doing my routine takes anywhere from 45 min - 1hour... and thats only 1 muscle group a day, therefore, what and how should i organize myself to workout 2 muscle groups in 1 day and keep it within an hour??

 

[zxe003]

If what your concerned about is time, then there's two factors that you have to consider. 1) you need to determine what your rep/set scheme will be. If you're planning to stick with higher reps, then not as many sets will be required (this will cut down your workout duration), if you're going with lower reps but more sets then obviously your workout will take longer and you will be limited on how many variations of each workout you can do. 2) you need to figure out what muscle pairings you're going to make. If you do as I suggested (chest/tris, back/bis), you will not need to do as many variations for your arms on these days, since they are already being pre-exhausted with your chest and back exercises. If you choose to go with a push/pull routine as Dave suggested (chest/bis, back/tris), you definitely want to make sure you're throwing in enough volume for your arms, since they aren't being used in the previous lifts.

-Sorry for not citing a specific routine for you, but that's hard to determine for you if I don't know how you will address these two factors.

Another factor which makes a huge difference is rest periods. Like I said before, my rest periods are very short (never any longer than 60secs). If you don't have it naturally or you haven't built up muscle endurance, then this is difficult to do.