My first box squats

[bigguns15]

I did box squats today! I did 6 sets of 3, really light (all with 135), just to get the feel for them. I'm thinking later on I can add bands if I want to. Here is a link to the video:
http://www.rebeccaphelps.com/trainvids/boxsquat7-21-03.wmv

Tell me what you think. There isn't really anyone at our gym that has much experience with these, so I need your input here. Thanks!

 

[spatts]

Those look great!

In our gym, we call those "low box squats."

 

[Ish]

I'm no expert, but if you can try to sit back more than straight down, I think that would be better. Sit down like you are sitting in a chair.

 

[pwr_machine]

Those look great!

In our gym, we call those "low box squats."

I'm with you Spatts. I thought they looked great!

 

[pwr_machine]

I'm no expert, but if you can try to sit back more than straight down, I think that would be better. Sit down like you are sitting in a chair.

That actually is her sitting back. If you notice, on the second set, her toes come off the ground. She's been having trouble with a forward lean, so we thought incorporating the box squats would help alleviate this. Thanks for the tip though!

 

[louden_swain]

Looks solid to me!!

 

[Liftbig]

maybe she should try wearing chucks to squat in, those shoes look like they put her on her toes. also defianatly sit back more, it looks like most of the stress is on the quads.

 

[louden_swain]

When I perform box squats. . I try and sit back as far as possible then I will have a 2 second pause. From the bottom position, the hips are forced to work like hell.

Overall, your squat technique looks excellent. . .

 

[bigguns15]

maybe she should try wearing chucks to squat in, those shoes look like they put her on her toes. also defianatly sit back more, it looks like most of the stress is on the quads.

I have always thought that those shoes were very flat. However, I am about to experiment squating in my deadlift shoes to see what kind of a difference that makes. Thanks for the tip! I'm not even used to sitting that far back though. I felt like I was going to fall backwards.

 

[spatts]

I think it would be hard to sit back in those shoes...aren't they kind of designed to keep you forward? Seems like you'd need more hamstring recruitment to sit back more and use flat shoes.

 

[bigguns15]

I think it would be hard to sit back in those shoes.

Why is this?

 

[spatts]

Because they're not flat. You're probably used to them though. Personally, when I wear a shoe that's not flat, I feel like I have to lean forward more to balance things out.

...but then again, I can't squat. lol

 

[bigguns15]

Because they're not flat. You're probably used to them though. Personally, when I wear a shoe that's not flat, I feel like I have to lean forward more to balance things out.

...but then again, I can't squat. lol

Thanks. I have never thought about my squat shoes being a problem until about 2 days ago. That would be great if something as small as that could make a difference. If it does make a difference, I'll try to get some custom shoes made for me.

 

[spatts]

Do you ever squat barefooted? Just chalk up your socks or go bare? What happens to your form when you don't wear shoes?

 

[Liftbig]

its becuase the heel on that shoe is pretty high compared to flat soled shoes. it keeps your heel up, which is good for squatting real deep. but not good for sitting back.

 

[bigguns15]

Do you ever squat barefooted? Just chalk up your socks or go bare? What happens to your form when you don't wear shoes?

I've never tried squatting barefoot. Do you do this?

 

[bigguns15]

its becuase the heel on that shoe is pretty high compared to flat soled shoes. it keeps your heel up, which is good for squatting real deep. but not good for sitting back.

I've just never thought of them as having that high of a heel. Just measured the heel compared to the toe and there was only a 3/8" difference. Could that be enough to throw me off?

 

[spatts]

I've never tried squatting barefoot. Do you do this?

Honey, I have tried everything shy of squatting in a hand stand to figure this crap out. Personally, I would squat barefooted if they let me. I prefer it. Next best thing, IMO, is my Chucks.

 

[Liftbig]

i think any difference can put you on your toes.

 

[bigguns15]

Honey, I have tried everything shy of squatting in a hand stand to figure this crap out.

Thanks for all the input!

 

[Ish]

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_120squat.html

One last little tidbit. It might be useful to you, it might not.

 

[bigguns15]

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_120squat.html

One last little tidbit. It might be useful to you, it might not.

Thanks for the link and info!

 

[b fold the truth]

That IS a low box...lol. Your reps seem to get better as you do them though. The last rep on the last set looks the best to me.

I do feel that you can not properly sit back with OL shoes on. Why do you pull in flat soled shoes? Because it causes you to use your hips/hams more and allows you to sit back instead of up...right? Why don't you do this when you squat?

I do find it important to take a wider stance with Chucks. To make the Chucks work for me I have to be in a position where I can 'split the floor' when I squat to use the side of my hips instead of just my legs.

From the clip it looks like a lot of quads are being used and not much hips or hams... Just an observation...but I'm not much of a squatter myself either.

B True

 

[IronLion]

The box needs to be about 2 inches higher, this will allow you to sit back like everyone suggested. The box being so low forces you to go into a more olympic type squat with your shins coming forward in order to balance yourself

 

[coolcolj]

Looks great!

 

[pwr_machine]

From the clip it looks like a lot of quads are being used and not much hips or hams... Just an observation...but I'm not much of a squatter myself either.

B True

Good observation. We've pretty much identified that her hips and hams are probably the weak link in her squat. We're hoping the box squats among some other exercises that we have incorporated will help get her strength up.

 

[pwr_machine]

The box needs to be about 2 inches higher, this will allow you to sit back like everyone suggested. The box being so low forces you to go into a more olympic type squat with your shins coming forward in order to balance yourself

We can't go 2 inches higher. It's VERY important that she develops strength from that depth. It's the USAPL...convincingly deep.

 

[pwr_machine]

This was her FIRST time doing box squats. For years, she had a problem with a forward lean coming out of the hole. I believe her hips and hams aren't up to speed so her lower back compensates for the weak link. Box squats are one addition to her training to strengthen that area.

In the past, her knees were pretty much past her toes, much like an OL lifter. This past training cycle, she has been learning to sit back and there is a HUGE difference between her old squats and the new form she is still LEARNING. Her knees are no longer past her toes! It can only improves. We're taking her form and completely changing it. I'm sure that's going to take some time to learn.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. If you have more, keep the comments coming. We will be experimenting around with a flatter soled shoe. I've made the request to have a pair custom made if need be.

 

[pwr_machine]

Looks great!

Thank you! I think she is looking great also. I expect perfection so they can only get better.

 

[bigguns15]

That IS a low box...lol. Your reps seem to get better as you do them though. The last rep on the last set looks the best to me.

I do feel that you can not properly sit back with OL shoes on. Why do you pull in flat soled shoes? Because it causes you to use your hips/hams more and allows you to sit back instead of up...right? Why don't you do this when you squat?

I do find it important to take a wider stance with Chucks. To make the Chucks work for me I have to be in a position where I can 'split the floor' when I squat to use the side of my hips instead of just my legs.

From the clip it looks like a lot of quads are being used and not much hips or hams... Just an observation...but I'm not much of a squatter myself either.

B True

Thanks B. My reps did feel better as I did them. As for the shoes, I use the deadlift (wrestling) shoes because they are flat and close to the ground. I have somewhat of a problem keeping my butt down in the deadlift, which I think is also due to weaker hips/hams. But I'm working on it

 

[pwr_machine]

I use the deadlift (wrestling) shoes because they are flat and close to the ground.

I could always see a huge difference between tennis shoes and wrestling shoes. The weight was always SO much easier to pull when I was closer to the ground.

 

[Liftbig]

yeah its defiantly easier to pull back when wearing wrestling shoes vs. tennis shoes. helps me get my weight on my heels instead of my toes.

 

[pwr_machine]

yeah its defiantly easier to pull back when wearing wrestling shoes vs. tennis shoes. helps me get my weight on my heels instead of my toes.

Glad to see someone has had similar experiences.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Nice looking low box.

 

[slinky]

Excellent thread.

 

[pwr_machine]

I've received notification from Bigguns15's sponsor that we could easily alter her squat shoes to a flatter sole if necessary. We'll be playing around with her deadlifts shoes and see if such a change might be necessary.

 

[bigguns15]

Nice looking low box.

Thanks

 

[pwr_machine]

I keep watching this video and I just can't find flaws in it. Her form looks 10x better than it has in the past. I'm still open to trying a flatter soled shoe to compare her performance, but I'm pretty happy with the way these look.

 

[louden_swain]

The only thing I can says is letting the hips relax on the box and pausing. When coming out of the paused low position, the hips are forced to work big time. This is a technique that I use. To sum it up:

sit back, let hips relax, pause, then explode out of the hole.

 

[pwr_machine]

I see what you're saying.

I look forward to even more responses.

 

[Ish]

http://66.235.16.23/Training/videos/2003_north_americans/030704-box-squats.wmv

Watch how he sits back.

 

[pwr_machine]

That's what I figured everyone was talking about when I looked at the last picture on the link posted earlier in this thread. Here's what I don't understand, in both the picture and the video, the lower leg appears to go vertical or even slightly past vertical when the lifter sits back at the bottom of the squat. So if the box wasn't there, he wouldn't be coming back up with the weight. In my mind, I'd rather see Bigguns15 box squat like she is going to squat at a competition. I need justification for a lifter sitting so far back.

 

[OreoPL]

i felt the same way u did pwr machine until i did box squats in chucks sitting back. in 6 weeks i added 75 pounds to my squat jsut from recruiting more hamstrings and hips. and i can now swuat with or without weight with my legs perpendicular to the floor of my knees back behind that. i was amazed at how stable box squats made me and how much more i could lift due to them. have faith in sitting back then get off box after about a montha nd squat normal. u will be amazed at how u can sit back without the box without fear after that and have a higher squat. at least that is my experience

 

[pwr_machine]

i can now swuat with or without weight with my legs perpendicular to the floor of my knees back behind that.

I'm not opposed to trying something new, but I'm having a hard time grasping this concept. I do not see it mechanically possible to squat with your legs perpendicular or knees past perpendicular.

 

[spatts]

I think she's sitting back plenty far, and here's why:

1> Her knees do not change position much during the movement and they remain behind her toes.

2> If you watch the video in slo-mo, and stop it at parallel, she's sitting WAY back. Her depth gives the illusion that she never passes through that plane, when in fact she does.

 

[pwr_machine]

I think she's sitting back plenty far, and here's why:

1> Her knees do not change position much during the movement and they remain behind her toes.

2> If you watch the video in slo-mo, and stop it at parallel, she's sitting WAY back. Her depth gives the illusion that she never passes through that plane, when in fact she does.

I agree. Good observation, Spatts. We did play around with and without the box tonight in both pairs of shoes (deadlift and squat shoes). We'll try to get that up in a little while.

 

[bigguns15]

Here is my experiment I tried today.
Set 1- Deadlift shoes, no box
Set 2- Deadlift shoes, box
Set 3- Squat shoes, box
Set 4- Squat shoes, no box

http://www.rebeccaphelps.com/trainvids/boxsquat7-23-03.wmv

The only difference I felt was that I was more uncomfortable in my deadlift shoes. But, I'm also used to squating in my squat shoes. I felt as if I was going to roll on my ankles because of lack of support. I don't really see a difference in the videos either. I would like some feedback from you guys and gals anyway. I appreciate everyone checking out my form and giving me tips. I'm always trying to improve!

 

[spatts]

Do you realize that you rock back on your heels, and your toes come up off the ground, in almost every rep?

 

[bigguns15]

Do you realize that you rock back on your heels, and your toes come up off the ground, in almost every rep?

Yep. That's me trying to sit back as far as I can without falling on my rear. It's getting better, but I'm still learning (as always )

 

[spatts]

Yeah, knees out ought to fix that AND create the "sitting back" illusion.

 

[Liftbig]

make sure when your sitting back you are also pushing out on the side of your feet, and pushing you knees out too, another reason for flat soled shoes.

 

[bigguns15]

I was pushing my knees out. That's one of my new things I'm working on. That's one reason I felt like my ankles were going to roll in my deadlift shoes, because I was trying so hard to push out. Those shoes just don't have the ankle support that my squat shoes have.

 

[Liftbig]

chucks have great ankle support, if there was a way to roll your ankles over in them, my big arse would have done it by now.

 

[bigguns15]

chucks have great ankle support, if there was a way to roll your ankles over in them, my big arse would have done it by now.

I'm not ready to change shoes just yet. I don't feel a difference. I'll keep playing around and see which one becomes more comfortable. I can easily change my squats shoes to a flatter sole, but I don't feel ready for that.

 

[Cuthbert]

...but I'm not much of a squatter myself either.

B True

What the CRAP are you talking about????

 

[spatts]

What the CRAP are you talking about????

 

[b fold the truth]

What the CRAP are you talking about????

Having a stronger than average squat is one thing...and being a technical squatter is another. I KNOW that I have the potential to squat a grand or better...or to have a 2k+ total. Heck, maybe someday I'll do that...but it will not mean that I have a great squat...just that I put up some big numbers.

bigguns15: is it just me..or didn't the squat used to be one of the easiest lifts...lol. When I squat now I have a million things to think about to nail the squat... Here you are, one of the top powerlifters in the world, thinking about how to improve yours. THAT is something that I respect soooo much about both yourself and Spatts...the willingness to seek out information (even at an Elite level) and hopefully find a better way to do what you are doing.

I do swear...squatting used to be soooo much simplier...lol

B True

 

[pwr_machine]

bigguns15: Here you are, one of the top powerlifters in the world, thinking about how to improve yours. THAT is something that I respect soooo much about both yourself and Spatts...the willingness to seek out information (even at an Elite level) and hopefully find a better way to do what you are doing.
B True

I agree, B Fold. I think that's what separates these girls from most lifters. I know that's why they're headed for that #1 spot. When people look at Bigguns15 differently or question the way she trains, I know exactly what she's thinking. It comes back to a simple speech from a movie.

"We CLAW with our finger nails for that inch.
Cause we know
when we add up all those inches
that's going to make the f***ing difference
between WINNING and LOSING
between LIVING and DYING."

I know she's willing to do anything for that inch...

...to separate herself from the rest. It's a desire to win.

And she will win! I'll do anything I can to get those numbers up. She's smart enough and coachable enough to make those changes to get to the top!

I think Bigguns15 and Spatts have that same fire. It's a beautiful thing to watch and be part of.

 

[bigguns15]

bigguns15: is it just me..or didn't the squat used to be one of the easiest lifts...lol. When I squat now I have a million things to think about to nail the squat... Here you are, one of the top powerlifters in the world, thinking about how to improve yours. THAT is something that I respect soooo much about both yourself and Spatts...the willingness to seek out information (even at an Elite level) and hopefully find a better way to do what you are doing.

I do swear...squatting used to be soooo much simplier...lol

B True

Oh how right you are. But just squatting without all those little things will only get you so far, and I want to be the best. Thank you for your kind words. I think that is one of the best compliments I've gotten

 

[pwr_machine]

I think that is one of the best compliments I've gotten

It's cause you're on the right track! Keep it up!