My Experience with Sustain Alpha/Unleashed/Post Cycle for PCT

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson did you actually read my first post or not? I haven't been on any aas for over 3 months now, when I started that pct. So it's not like I've just been on and on and on. I'm not going to repeat the story so you can look at the first post if you want to know.

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Dude, in post #18 you say... AND I QUOTE..."I was on one aas or another for almost 8 months." So, the fact that you've been off for 3 months is irrelevant to the point that you never allowed yourself to fully recover.


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And honestly how can you tell me that nolvadex and/or clomid isn't going to do anything to help me recover when one or the other is used by almost every person that cycles?

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Also irrelevant. The fact that it's used doesn't make it a proven method. Lots of people pray too. Works for some, not for others. The fact that lots of people do it doesn't make it any more effective. I can give you just as many examples of Clomid NOT working as when it has.





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Nolvadex does increase test levels (Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men. Vermeulen, Comhaire. Fertil and Steril 29 (1978) 320-7) as does clomid just at a higher dose.

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Assuming this study is correct (which I would question because it's full of holes) Nolva is also known for killing libido. When libido is down, sexual activity goes down which leads to lower testosterone. catch 22. Bottom line; you feel like shit and that's what you want to avoid.


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And I hate to tell you, but before sustain, unleashed, and post cycle came out people were using nolvadex/clomid and hcg for years to recover test levels.

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Yeah, and I hate to tell you, but it often didn't work very well.




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I would love to use sustain alpha along with it (might as well have every angle covered) but I don't want bumps and itchy skin for the next month.

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That I can,t help you with. It's not my product. Maybe needto or PP can offer some advice.

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If there is anything else you can think of that would help me, feel free to let me know, but I don't see how you can tell me what I am doing now won't help at all.
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You're missing my point bro. Basically everything is temporary and at some point you need to recover fully. In order for that to happen you must take the right steps. If you take a shotgun approach you'll never really know what is workinfg and what isn't.


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[needtogetaas]

nice bump.

 

[needtogetaas]

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be as detailed as possible for others that may be considering the OTC route for PCT.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone flames me for doing gear WAAAAAAAAAAAY too early, I ALREADY KNOW! I realized that after I started really researching this site. I started doing it on bad advice. I'm now staying natty and working on all of my core power exercises and not looking to do any more gear any time soon.

I mentioned a few times that I was going to use sustain alpha, post cycle, and unleashed only for my pct and that I would post my results when I was finished. I promised blood test results but I just don't have the money to get my test levels checked right now (and don't have any baseline numbers anyway) so I am going by feeling.

To understand the way I was suppressed you need the whole story. I got into gear because of bad advice from a so called "friend". In the past I had only worked out for about 6 months solid. I had stopped for about a year and lost whatever gains I had made. I wanted to get back into the gym and he convinced me that "light supplementation" -- his words -- with gear would get me amazing results. He definitely overstated the impact that it would have and I probably could have gained much more than I did if he had taught me good diet and exercise routines instead of giving me gear.

I started at 5'8" 155lbs, basically no muscle. I was 21 then which was about 8 months ago, now I am 22, 158-160 and much less fat then when I started. My goal now for the short term is to keep my weight the same while dropping my bf down to around 12%.

He somehow convinced me to do 8 weeks of 50mg var and 50mg winnie a day (because I didn't want needles). He never mentioned PCT or anything like that.

Next he finally convinced me to use needles. He sold me a bunch of deca, masteron enanthate, and a test p/tren ace/masteron p blend. He tried to get me on the blend first but the test p hurt and I didn't want to do it. So he got be on 8 weeks of deca (I'm guessing it was only 100mg a week because the vial was unlabeled so I don't know exact dosage and I was only shooting 1/2cc a week) with 200mg masteron every 5 days (I know that one because it was a labeled vial). Keep in mind this was only about 4 weeks after the first cycle.

When I finished that one, 2 weeks later I got on the blend. I basically had made no noticeable gains off of the deca/masteron because my diet wasn't right and well it just was a retarted cycle. Now that I was used to needles, I was ok with pinning EOD so I got on half dose of the blend. I don't know the exact dosage because it was unlabeled. He told me it was "double dosed" at his request from his supplier. Now I have no idea what the original dose would be or exactly how much you can even fit in a cc.

At this point I was 153lbs, but had less fat and more muscle than when I started. I ran this (1/2 cc EOD) for 8 weeks. About 1 week into it he moved away. Thank god this happened because that was when I started really reading this site because I couldn't ask him for advice anymore. I got my diet in check eating 3500+ clean cals a day and really got my exercise routines in check as well. I learned about hcg, so I ran 250iu twice a week for weeks 4-8. Also about halfway through I did 1/2cc of deca for 2 weeks because I was having joint problems.

At the end of that I was 165lbs with much more muscle definition. I started my PCT of sustain alpha 5 pumps ED, Unleashed 3 caps morning 3 caps night for the first week and then just 3 caps in the morning after that, and Post Cycle 3 caps morning 3 caps night. I started this a day or 2 after my last inject. I ran it until I went to the Winter Music Conference in South Beach last week on Tues which was right when my bottle of sustain ran out (about 3 and a half weeks). Also, near the end I was forgetting to take the unleashed and post cycle sometimes. I was very strict at the beginning. I did use sustain every day though.

As soon as I started PCT I switched to a carb cycling diet for a week which dropped off about 5 lbs of water weight, then I switched to a more sustainable diet of about 3000 clean cals a day with about 320g protein, and 250g carbs everyday, no cycling. My lifts continued to go up for a couple weeks (possibly from the gear still being in my blood somewhat). End result: 158-160lbs, much more muscular, about the same fat. So total gain of maybe 5 or 6 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. Could I have done it without gear? Yes! Do I wish I hadn't done the gear in the first place and just learned the diet and training knowledge I have now? Hell yes!

CONCLUSION:
My libido was starting to suffer by the end of the test/tren/mast cycle. Probably because I through in the deca for my joints. Also my mood was getting really bad because of sleep problems from the tren. Within a day of the Sustain my mood was 100% better even though I was still tired as hell. This was not placebo. It was that big of a difference. And if it was placebo, it was one hell of a placebo affect!

My balls were about half size on the last cycle. By about 1 week they visibly looked back to normal. Within a week my libido was improving. Not great -- it was hard to bust, took forever -- but getting better. Then it took a dip for about a week or 2. Right now I can say it is coming back strong.

I don't know if it was looking at all of the stupidly hot women in South Beach that I couldn't have that brought it back or hanging out with 2 stupid hot girls for the week that I couldn't bang (they were taken) or what. But, all I can say is I actually feel like a man again. The idea of a naked woman was barely doing anything for me before. Now I feel like I'm back to myself. Not 100% there, but 95%. I would say not bad for 3 and a half weeks of otc sups for pct after being low to then highly suppressed for what was basically 8 months straight. Luckily I was doing fairly low dosages of everything so I think that helped. Either way I never had to touch the Nolvadex I had laying around.

Also, even though I barely got in cals during the last week and didn't get to work out because I was partying, I have kept all of my mass. I was sick with a bad cold/sore throat this week so I didn't get to work out either but I've been getting my cals in. I am the same musculature/weight as I was during pct so I would say the only thing I lost from the last cycle was water weight. I can't wait to hit the gym hard again next week. I'll keep this thread updated with my progress over the next month or two. I hope to continue to lose fat slowly and build up my strength. Unless my weight dips all of a sudden or I loose a bunch of muscle I would call this PCT successful in retaining mass.

Would I recommend to others? Definitely.

I would say try it after a shorter cycle (no more than 8 weeks) and definitely run hcg during cycle. I think for most people nothing else but sustain would be necessary. I can't say for certain what product did what. I can say I didn't like taking all of the pills so for a first time I would say just run sustain for 1 month and see how that works for you. If you aren't feeling back to normal then maybe add post cycle and unleashed and run sustain for another month. Of course these sups may not work for everyone (especially on a heavy cycle) so if you try it and you aren't back to normal after 8 weeks you can always run a "normal" pct cycle then.

sounds like you are happy then. Nice!!!!!

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

You're missing my point bro. Basically everything is temporary and at some point you need to recover fully. In order for that to happen you must take the right steps. If you take a shotgun approach you'll never really know what is workinfg and what isn't.

and what exactly are the "right steps". I've haven't used any pct products in 2 months, and no aas in 3 months. I noticed that I only thought about sex once a week or so instead of all the time like a normal 22 year old. I was seeing no difference for over a month. I felt it was time to try something other than what I tried before. Hence the nolvadex and hcg (which is a commonly recommended pct, although it may not work for everyone but it is worth a shot). Right now my libido is higher than it was a week ago before I started, so at least I am improving. Whether I continue to improve is to be seen.

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

sounds like you are happy then. Nice!!!!!

Change that "are" to a "was". Read my last couple posts from today.

 

[needtogetaas]

Change that "are" to a "was". Read my last couple posts from today.

Ok well something went wrong. If there is anything I can do for you bro just let me know. What I have a will give to you.

 

[Nelson Montana]

and what exactly are the "right steps". I've haven't used any pct products in 2 months, and no aas in 3 months. I noticed that I only thought about sex once a week or so instead of all the time like a normal 22 year old. I was seeing no difference for over a month. I felt it was time to try something other than what I tried before. Hence the nolvadex and hcg (which is a commonly recommended pct, although it may not work for everyone but it is worth a shot). Right now my libido is higher than it was a week ago before I started, so at least I am improving. Whether I continue to improve is to be seen.

The "right steps" is use some precautionary measures. I'll say it a third time -- staying on for 8 months is the cause of your problems. You seem to gloss over that. What you're doing now is just alleviating the symptoms.

I've said it a thousand times -- PCT is not a surefire cure. You MUST do things correctly and then use PCT as an AID to recovery.

At any rate, I hope what you're doing works out for you. I'm sure in time, you'll come around. Next time, be more careful.

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

The "right steps" is use some precautionary measures. I'll say it a third time -- staying on for 8 months is the cause of your problems. You seem to gloss over that. What you're doing now is just alleviating the symptoms.

I've said it a thousand times -- PCT is not a surefire cure. You MUST do things correctly and then use PCT as an AID to recovery.

At any rate, I hope what you're doing works out for you. I'm sure in time, you'll come around. Next time, be more careful.

Believe me, had I not gotten horrible advice from someone that I trusted at the time, I would have never been on for that long. I was basically told that because I am in my early 20's, I could be on for 2 years straight and recover just fine. No mention of PCT, nothing. I agree that I was dumb enough to take his advice, but at the time I trusted him because he was a powerlifter that had used aas for years and I had basically no knowledge of aas. He basically had me do 3 cycles in a row (anavar/winnie, deca/masteron, and then test/tren/masteron). It wasn't until he moved away during the 3rd cycle that I turned to this forum for my info instead of him. By the time I learned all about aas from here, I was already almost done with that 3rd cycle. Believe me I will never be on aas that long again. I had no idea the impact it could have when I did it. Now I'm just trying to mop up the mess.

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

Just wanted to chime in with how its going so far.

I started my new mini pct on 5/30 with my first 1000iu shot of hcg and 20mg capsule of nolvadex. I then took 20mg of nolvadex everyday until yesterday and I shot hcg EOD from the beginning for 5 shots.

Right now I have stopped taking the nolvadex as of yesterday as I started my clen today and I figured the less compounds in my body the better.

Before I did this I had been off cycle for around 3 months, done with pct for 2, and my balls were half size hanging really low like they werent doing anything. I had no sex drive, etc. Right now they are full size (or at least what I remember being full size) and my sex drive is what I would call normal. In fact I never had any lowering of libido from the nolvadex as many claim happens. In fact my libido shot up after the first day and has stayed high since. Hopefully in a month or two by balls will still be big and I will still have a good sex drive. I'll keep the thread updated.

 

[mus1cjunk1e]

Well I took a, uh, closer look at my nuts last night and this morning and it seems like at night they hang pretty low and are half size, while in the morning/afternoon they are about 3/4 of normal size and stay higher up like normal. I know it is normal for the body to produce more test in the mornings than at night, but I know that my balls werent that small and didn't hang that low at night before the cycles. So if anything, I'm on the road to recovery but I just need to give my body time to fully recover. It seems like the hcg/nolva helped a lot tho because before that they were smaller and hung lower during the day than they even do at night now.

On a side note, I woke up with huge morning wood this morning which was a pleasant surprise. That's always a good indication. I think I'm going to grab another bottle of unleashed and see if I get more morning wood from it. That would be a nice indication of rising test levels. At some point a couple months from now I'm going to get a full test and lh/fsh panel so I can see where I stand. For now I'm just going to let myself recover.