My disgusting GUT is KILLING me !!!!!!!!

[junk]

Ok here's the story:

I finished my Test/Fina cycle about almost 1.5 months ago. I finished the Clomid therapy about two weeks ago of course along all anti-es and stuff.

I went down to 10% BF and stomach looked great, all abs showing up and almost no love handles.

Now about almost two months after the cycle is over I've lost another 1% BF and I am now standing on 9% BF.

BUT

AT 9% Right now my abs look WORSE !!!!!!!!!!!! It's like I have a fucking horrible tummy. I've worked so hard and it drives me totally fucking insane.

I've started taking Dandelion root at 500mg every 3 hours yesterday and I drink about 2 galons a day of water. I do 60 minutes cardio every morning and still the body fat is lower than before but abs look worse !

I don't know what to contribute this horrible change in my abs to. Maybe it could be the Creatine that I just started taking about two weeks ago?? But not sure if creatine give subcutanous water retension? Anyway, I've STOPPED creatine all-together about 3 days ago.

I've started today to take Femara (Letrozole) half a tab. Should I continue with 0.5 a tab every day? And how much Dandelion.

I am not competing or anything like that. I just fucking HATE FAT, I just can't seem to bare it. I always go for the lean look. And this thing really depresses me in the last few days.

I know I sound excited (I am) But I hope other leaness compulisive friends will understand me down here.

I Appreciate your help. GREATLY

 

[Stillgoing]

here's my initial reaction:

I'm suprised that your bodyfat is lower and you look substantially worse. Its not the creatine, and I wouldn't run femara.

If its not all in your head, my suspicion is that your now off cycle, so you've lost the fina hardness, and your natural test may still be shut-down and you are getting the low test look. When I'm shut-down my waist accumulates fat very easily and the overall appearance is soft & watery......

Have you had post-c bloodwork done? I would start here. You need to determine if your still shut-down. If so, a HCG/clomid or nolv run may be in order. Or, you can wait it out....or, you could run some clen or ECA to harden up a little.....

 

[georgie24]

YOU LOST MUSCLE AND GAINED FAT

 

[FOZY]

cant beat geneti

Mine dont show at 9% either unless im on some sort of AAS that makes you hard. Lastt ime isaw abbs was when i was on anavar and they all didnt come out. The rest of my body looks 9% just not my stomach...................Im going to diet down to six starting in may and see how that looks, thin its just one of those things yu have to live with

JMO

 

[FOZY]

goerge how did he lose muscle and gain fat if his body fat dropped 1% plaese elabortat

thanks

 

[junk]

Not quite

to: Stillgoing

No it's not in my head. I have photos and a personal trainer that also thinks the same. It's so obvious.

I can't use clen or ECA because I've already used them both at the same time for 3 weeks in a row, so they are not efficient for me anymore.

I've used by the book HCG and ran Clomid for 4 weeks, I doubt this is the problem.


to: YOU LOST MUSCLE AND GAINED FAT

I don't think this is my case. I make Bodyfat and LBM / Fat mass readings once a week and results are steady (same time of day, same hydration level, so readings are more or less percise). My FAT mass has gone down about a pound so that's not the case. I didn't gain fat. Or hopefully not.

I'm on 1500 cals a day doing 1 hour aerobics a day and 3 times a week weight-training NO fucking way of gaining fat that way.

 

[FOZY]

1500..................???? Your going to lose muscle that way......I hope your on some sort of geer to hault catabolism

1500 ? ? ?

 

[SofaGeorge]

Hate to tell you bro, but this may be all in your head.

I worked out at Gold's Venice for 10 years. We had a thing there we used to describe as "Gold's Syndrome." This is where you train, work out with a serious crowd, and become hyper vigilant in how you critique your own body.

We had girls who were absolute goddesses... and they thought they looked like sh-t. Why? Because they would hyper analyze the tweak of their obliques... a 16th of an inch of fat on their hammies... a pec that squared a 32th of an inch too much.

Then... when you sat them next to a dumpy chick at Taco Bell they'd say... Oh... Yeah... I guess I do look okay.

So before this goes further... post a pic of your abs. They may not be as bad as you think.

 

[Stillgoing]

Re: Not quite

to: Stillgoing I'm on 1500 cals a day doing 1 hour aerobics a day and 3 times a week weight-training NO fucking way of gaining fat that way.

Ahhh hahh!! We've found the culprit!! Your eating way too little calories in conjunction with high amounts of aerobic exercise. There is absolutely NO WAY you can retain a muscular hard appearance in this catabolic state. I guarantee it. Let me say it again, I guarantee it. Further - your last post didn't address test levels. For your own benefit, please consider this. Your diet will exascerbate a low test problem.

Solution: High protein, moderate fat, low carbs. Up the calories substantially. Also - I would lower cardio for a couple weeks to a month, and, you may want to take a cheat couple days on the diet. You need to alter course now.....

 

[SofaGeorge]

Re: Re: Not quite

Ahhh hahh!! We've found the culprit!! Your eating way too little calories in conjunction with high amounts of aerobic exercise. There is absolutely NO WAY you can retain a muscular hard appearance in this catabolic state. I guarantee it. Let me say it again, I guarantee it. Further - your last post didn't address test levels. For your own benefit, please consider this. Your diet will exascerbate a low test problem.

Solution: High protein, moderate fat, low carbs. Up the calories substantially. Also - I would lower cardio for a couple weeks to a month, and, you may want to take a cheat couple days on the diet. You need to alter course now.....

Could be some solid truth to this too. I know that if I cut carbs too much... I need to carb up to get that hard look back. Dieting can make you look like crap.... especially if you are disciplined.

 

[satchboogie]

dude... are you tripping?????

1500 cals post cycle and cardio??????????????????????

dont be surprised if you lose ALL of your gains.

again, not some, but ALL of your gains.

fact is that post cycle you need slightly more calories than usual to ensure that your body has all the tools necessary to at least maintain its mass. surely, in a catabolic state (off cycle) shorting your body the cals it need and on top of that doing cardio is totally gonna fuck your gains up.

but i guess it's too late.

you learn something new every day though. dont you?

 

[junk]

Guys guys guys relax.

1) It's NOT in my head. I've asked a pt who's a close friend of mine and two other guys that know my body's look quite well. I've also compared photos (both taken under same light conditions and hydration level). I am a serious guy.

2) I am had great success with 1500-1800 cals a day.

3) I did use clen most of the time and did not loose more than 2 or 3 pounds of lbm (lean body mass).

4) I am very ectomorphic (small frame) and my weight is very low, so 1500 cals is not that low for a guy like me.

5) I't __NOT__ a carb depletion issue. Why? Because I didn't mention it but during my dieting in the last 3 weeks I had several HUGE crashes (I mean one 6000 cals meal (!!!), which I had to cover with more cardio).

6) How do you know if th tummy is abdominal fat accumilation or just plain water ?

 

[junk]

Guys guys guys relax.

1) It's NOT in my head. I've asked a pt who's a close friend of mine and two other guys that know my body's look quite well. I've also compared photos (both taken under same light conditions and hydration level). I am a serious guy.

2) I am had great success with 1500-1800 cals a day.

3) I did use clen most of the time and did not loose more than 2 or 3 pounds of lbm (lean body mass).

4) I am very ectomorphic (small frame) and my weight is very low, so 1500 cals is not that low for a guy like me.

5) I't __NOT__ a carb depletion issue. Why? Because I didn't mention it but during my dieting in the last 3 weeks I had several HUGE crashes (I mean one 6000 cals meal (!!!), which I had to cover with more cardio).

6) How do you know if th tummy is abdominal fat accumilation or just plain water ?

7) What do you suggest for me to check Free Testosterone levels? Or both Total and Free test levels?

 

[abc 1]

6000 calories in one meal?

whatever.
how much do you weigh? 1500 calories is low, if your 150 pounds, 1500 calories is the lowest you could possibly go without loosing muscle. i know from experience doing 10 x bw in calories until i started to flatten out (which only took 6 weeks), now i'm up to 11 x bw to try and slow things.

give us more info: age, height, weight, etc.

 

[DepressiveJuice]

4) I am very ectomorphic (small frame) and my weight is very low, so 1500 cals is not that low for a guy like me.

if thats the case then there is no logic in wasting money in AAS on what you can achieve naturally

 

[BrickGirl]

For my last nationals competition, I got down to 119 pounds and my "calores" never got below 1500.

 

[AMBB4L]

5) I't __NOT__ a carb depletion issue. Why? Because I didn't mention it but during my dieting in the last 3 weeks I had several HUGE crashes (I mean one 6000 cals meal (!!!), which I had to cover with more cardio).

This sounds like a form of bulimia. You're STARVING yourself at 1500cal/day, and then you break down and binge on thousands of calories at once. Then to compensate, you do highly catabolic amounts of cardio, i.e. you purge.

Try having a sensible diet and cutting back on the cardio

 

[geoboy]

cant beat geneti

Mine dont show at 9% either unless im on some sort of AAS that makes you hard. Lastt ime isaw abbs was when i was on anavar and they all didnt come out. The rest of my body looks 9% just not my stomach...................Im going to diet down to six starting in may and see how that looks, thin its just one of those things yu have to live with

JMO

ditto- only time I see a 6 pack is on anavar.

 

[ceo]

wasted breath

 

[geoboy]

Re: Re: Re: Not quite

Could be some solid truth to this too. I know that if I cut carbs too much... I need to carb up to get that hard look back. Dieting can make you look like crap.... especially if you are disciplined.

It's simple biology. cardio &/or low calorie (esp low carb) diets are interpreted by your body as fight-or-flight stress, and cause the body to release cortisol. in men, this causes abdominal fat deposition and muscle catabolism - iow the center belly area is cortisol-associated (love handles are more 'estrogen dependant via a2 receptors). [

cut the cortisol, less ab fat.

all the low test posts are correct also- more test, less ab fat.

p.s. anavar is amazing for cutting abdominal fat (yes it burns visceral fat-look it up) while maintaining and even gaining muscle which makes sense: it is indicated for 'wasting' states such as in cancer/aids/major surgery patients. what do these have in coomon? high 'stress' causing huge cortisol increases which eat muscle and increase fat stores.

try drinking 10-20 grams of _PROTEIN-ONLY_ drink mix before AM fasting state cardio (this means no met-rx or eas stuff- just 100% protein from egg etc). this will prevent body from going catabolic and spitting out cortisol, while not impairing fat burning effect of the cardio.

 

[marky]

Have you done fina before? Could be a prolactin issue. Its not just reserved for the chest but anywhere where fat deposits including the waist and stomach. Maybe some bromocriptine. It has helped me with a variety of post fina effects.

 

[junk]

Thanks but my Prolactin levels are very very low (I've made a blood test) because I used Bromo during my cycle and two weeks after. That's not case.

 

[Dante666]

It's simple biology. cardio &/or low calorie (esp low carb) diets are interpreted by your body as fight-or-flight stress, and cause the body to release cortisol. in men, this causes abdominal fat deposition and muscle catabolism - iow the center belly area is cortisol-associated (love handles are more 'estrogen dependant via a2 receptors). [

That is one of the most overlooked things I know of. The physical stress your body is undergoing because of ending your cycle is all ready large and you are just compounding the problem with your dieting and exercise, especially with 6,000 calorie binges and so forth. It might also help to have a description of what your abs are looking like if you can describe it.