My DHEA-S results on Dermacrine

[Primordial Performance]

DHT will help counter the effects of estrogen, but not actually lower E2 levels.

The pregnenolone/progesterone does limit DHT conversion. Your levels would have been beyond range had you not been on the pregnenolone.

The high “end-hormones” make sense as you just completed Dermacrine a few days prior to this test. These are some of the last hormones in the conversion tree so it makes sense that your DHEA-S was low during this time and these other hormones where elevated. (They are probably lower now that you’ve had a few weeks to level out, and DHEA-S is probably back up) Again, this test was timed badly, so you really cant say anything certain about your hormonal condition.

A stress problem is coming to mind… perhaps high cortisol or aldosterone levels… What does your daily physical activity consist of anyway? Sleep schedule?

-Pp

 

[gjohnson5]

Well you would expect DHT to inhibit aromatase

I wonder if his DHEA is converting to estrogen. High cortisol can elevate aromatase activity and decrease DHEA. But it could be stress , diet or lack of sleep or other factors.

dihydrotestosterone will help counter the effects of estrogen, but not actually lower E2 levels.

The pregnenolone/progesterone does limit dihydrotestosterone conversion. Your levels would have been beyond range had you not been on the pregnenolone.

The high “end-hormones” make sense as you just completed Dermacrine a few days prior to this test. These are some of the last hormones in the conversion tree so it makes sense that your DHEA-S was low during this time and these other hormones where elevated. (They are probably lower now that you’ve had a few weeks to level out, and DHEA-S is probably back up) Again, this test was timed badly, so you really cant say anything certain about your hormonal condition.

A stress problem is coming to mind… perhaps high cortisol or aldosterone levels… What does your daily physical activity consist of anyway? Sleep schedule?

-Pp

 

[SuperOne]

Hey guys, thanks for the help.


Eric, i dont argue that Dermacrine didnt raise my hormones, as the test showed it did, but ive had low DHEA-S since my first blood test on August 15 below.

Aug/15/07
Free Testosterone = 53.6 Range 31 - 94
DHEA-S = 2.8 LOW Range 7.6 - 17.4
LH = 3 Range 2 - 6
FSH = 3 Range 2 - 8


So would this mean that i had elevated hormones there aswell? I dont get what was going on there. Here's another test i had in October.

Sep/18/07
DHEA-S - 3.6 LOW Range 7.6-17.4
Cortisol 24 Hour Urine - 132 Range 27-180


Then i startd Dermacrine right after, and took the following test 4-5 days after i finished Dermacrine


Oct/15/07

DHEA-S - 3.3 LOW Range 7.6-17.4
Estradiol-17 Beta - 224 HIGH Range Up To 206
DHT= 3391 - Range 860 - 3406


Mabye the Endo will do a full blood panel for me when i see him in Nov, this way i wouldnt have taken any supplement or anything on over 1 month, and by then my hormones shouldnt be tainted or anything.



Regarding the stress, well when i was on Dutasteride, i was a MESS, my stress tolerance was zero, and i was snapping at people and thing instead of letting them slide. I will NEVER touch Avodart again.


Also, as soon as i quit Avodart i started using stims, which gave me anxiety, insomnia, jitters,ect, started doing hard morning cardio on an empty stomach for 45-60 minutes, popping some stims before hand, and hitting the weights real hard. I couldnt sleep usually untill 3-4am in the morning.


I seriously think the stims, yohimbine, caffeine,ect, stressed out my adrenals, and my DHT was probabbly still low from the Avodart at that time, and my estrogen might have been high. But based on my appearance, i dont think my Testosterone was low, unless i get jacked as shit on low Test, because people were commenting when i wore cut off shirts, and i dont think ive been that vascular and pumped before. My arms also got bigger. I know Finesteride upregulates the androgen receptors, so Avodart probabbly did this more because my forarms looked like friggin pop eye's on Avodart.



I do do a physical labour job, but ive been doing it for years and its not as stressful as an intense 45-60 workout it.



I seriosuly think my problems were either due to Avodart, the stimulants, or both, because ive never had a problem like this before in my life, and shit like this doesnt just happen for no reason when your healthy.



All my non hormonal blood work came back fine, i was tested for HIV, Mono, Syphilis, ect, and they all came back negative,ect.



I decided to wait untill Monday to get my Bioavailable Testosterone test done, so that should be interesting.



What do you think of Relora? A study showed it increased DHEA and reduced morning Cortisol levels.



So it looks like i can possibly use Propecia, with mabye low dose Letrozole, and not get any bloat?


I dont want to throw my system out of balance like i did with Dutasteride, which inhibits almost all DHT, including type 1 and 2 DHT.


Propecia only reduces type 2 DHT buy about 75%, in that case my DHT levels would still pretty much be on the low side of normal range, or just a bit below normal mabye. The halflife is really short, like 8 hours, and DHT levels return to normal within 2-3 weeks max when quitting Propecia.


What do you think would be a good dose of Letrozole to use to "control" Estradiol while on Propecia? I think Letro would be a good choice, because it has anti-progestin effects aswell. Mabye even using Sustain on the sack, in addition would be a cool idea?



Thanks for the help!

 

[Primordial Performance]

Yes Sustain perhaps combined with a very low dose of Arimidex. (letro is a bit too powerful to accurately control E levels)

BTW, get your total T checked too… it’s just as important as free T despite what your Doc says.

Gjohnson, where do you get the info that DHT inhibits aromatase?

-Pp

 

[SuperOne]

Thanks Eric, do you sell the Total Testosterone Test? Mabye i can order the Total & Bioavailable test from you.


My Doctor was getting mad and wouldnt order me the Total Testosterone test, the asshole.


What anti-estrogen has the greatest effect on lowering Estradiol, opposed to sulfated estrogens?


Ive read that Arimidex doesnt lower that much Estradiol, and lowers mostly sulfated estrogens, like Estrone,ect.



Thanks.

 

[SuperOne]

Oh Eric, i have a study showing that patients given DHT, lowered Estradiol.


I think it was on the Patrick Arnold " Give DHT A Break " article that i posted in this thread.

 

[gjohnson5]

Can I tell you my experience on dutasteride. I took generic duprost for 3.5 months. Morning wood every day and I think my libido actually went up. I was totally dis-satisfied with it's effectiveness to do anything including stop hair loss. I still lost hair on the middle of my head.

I'm starting to think dutasteride has little to do with this problem.

The stress plus the use of stimulant use seems to be the issue to me at this point. I've had issues with stress as well. You probably should try deep breathing and/or consultations with a friend or someone you trust. Hitting the weight room hard works for me. I don't believe in taking drugs including alcohol and cigarettes for stress | anxiety |depression. I think it's more up to you to decide not to take your issues is such extremely cynical and harsh ways. Letro will not cure anxiety. I don't see the harm in you doing a really low dose letro, but you shouldn't take any drugs now if you're going to see a doctor. He may want you to wait several months so all the other drugs clear your system so he can run good tests. This is my advise about any other meds is to wait until you are done with the doctors you are seeing. After that , you can experiment if you like.

Anyway let us know how the doctor goes.

Hey guys, thanks for the help.


Eric, i dont argue that Dermacrine didnt raise my hormones, as the test showed it did, but ive had low DHEA-S since my first blood test on August 15 below.

Aug/15/07
Free Testosterone = 53.6 Range 31 - 94
DHEA-S = 2.8 LOW Range 7.6 - 17.4
lh - leutenizing hormone - = 3 Range 2 - 6
FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - = 3 Range 2 - 8


So would this mean that i had elevated hormones there aswell? I dont get what was going on there. Here's another test i had in October.

Sep/18/07
DHEA-S - 3.6 LOW Range 7.6-17.4
Cortisol 24 Hour Urine - 132 Range 27-180


Then i startd Dermacrine right after, and took the following test 4-5 days after i finished Dermacrine


Oct/15/07

DHEA-S - 3.3 LOW Range 7.6-17.4
Estradiol-17 Beta - 224 HIGH Range Up To 206
dihydrotestosterone= 3391 - Range 860 - 3406


Mabye the Endo will do a full blood panel for me when i see him in Nov, this way i wouldnt have taken any supplement or anything on over 1 month, and by then my hormones shouldnt be tainted or anything.



Regarding the stress, well when i was on Dutasteride, i was a MESS, my stress tolerance was zero, and i was snapping at people and thing instead of letting them slide. I will NEVER touch Avodart again.


Also, as soon as i quit Avodart i started using stims, which gave me anxiety, insomnia, jitters,ect, started doing hard morning cardio on an empty stomach for 45-60 minutes, popping some stims before hand, and hitting the weights real hard. I couldnt sleep usually untill 3-4am in the morning.


I seriously think the stims, yohimbine, caffeine,ect, stressed out my adrenals, and my DHT was probabbly still low from the Avodart at that time, and my estrogen might have been high. But based on my appearance, i dont think my Testosterone was low, unless i get jacked as shit on low Test, because people were commenting when i wore cut off shirts, and i dont think ive been that vascular and pumped before. My arms also got bigger. I know Finesteride upregulates the androgen receptors, so Avodart probabbly did this more because my forarms looked like friggin pop eye's on Avodart.



I do do a physical labour job, but ive been doing it for years and its not as stressful as an intense 45-60 workout it.



I seriosuly think my problems were either due to Avodart, the stimulants, or both, because ive never had a problem like this before in my life, and shit like this doesnt just happen for no reason when your healthy.



All my non hormonal blood work came back fine, i was tested for HIV, Mono, Syphilis, ect, and they all came back negative,ect.



I decided to wait untill Monday to get my Bioavailable Testosterone test done, so that should be interesting.



What do you think of Relora? A study showed it increased DHEA and reduced morning Cortisol levels.



So it looks like i can possibly use Propecia, with mabye low dose Letrozole, and not get any bloat?


I dont want to throw my system out of balance like i did with Dutasteride, which inhibits almost all DHT, including type 1 and 2 DHT.


Propecia only reduces type 2 DHT buy about 75%, in that case my DHT levels would still pretty much be on the low side of normal range, or just a bit below normal mabye. The halflife is really short, like 8 hours, and DHT levels return to normal within 2-3 weeks max when quitting Propecia.


What do you think would be a good dose of Letrozole to use to "control" Estradiol while on Propecia? I think Femera - letrozole - would be a good choice, because it has anti-progestin effects aswell. Mabye even using Sustain on the sack, in addition would be a cool idea?



Thanks for the help!

 

[SuperOne]

Well i can tell you from my many readings on hairloss Forums, that the Duprost you used was probabbly crap, as ive read tons of others people experience on Duprost, and they had similar results to yours.


They switched to REAL brand name Avodart, and then they had much better results, aswell as some side effects. I can point to you numerous threads to back this up.


So i would try real brand name Avodart, wait atleast 6 months, and get back to me. Avodart is powerfull shit, and i noticed results within 4 weeks. Another thing to note is that everybody reacts differently, and it usually takes 12 months to see results as far as hair treatments go. On Propecia it took about 10 months before i saw results, and my hair actually looked a bit worse for a few months, before i had an overall improvement.



Ive been under MUCH more stressful situtations in my life, trust me, and i had no issues as a result. Breathing,ect, has nothing to do with it, ive never reacted like that before to stress, it was the Dutasteride fucking up my hormones. Woman react the same way on PMS when their hormones are all messed up. Its not totally their fault. You know dihydrotestosterone has strong effects on central nervous system and stress right?


To tell you the truth, today i feel pretty damn good!


I know my body and can tell you with absolute certainty is was either the Dutasteride, stimulants, or both.


Ive never used stimulants before this, and T-Rex,ect, is some powerfull shit.


I wont use Propecia or anything untill i see the endo in a month, just incase he wants to run more tests.

 

[gjohnson5]

It's a common side effect of DHT based drugs, especially winstrol joint inflammation.

Anyway, It's the mechanism which is the issue. If one has elevated estrogen , the real issue is HOW the estrogen became elevated.

Oh Eric, i have a study showing that patients given dihydrotestosterone, lowered Estradiol.


I think it was on the Patrick Arnold " Give DHT A Break " article that i posted in this thread.