music 2

[GenetiKing]

I dont want to have a go at you or single you out here Geneti, but why 'the beginning of the end'....i think that is a bit harsh, i like load, garage inc, reload and S&M.

Hey bro. I guess I could have worded that differently or explained myself a little better. I was referring to the period in which much of Metallica's hardcore fan base turned their backs on the band feeling that they had left their metal roots. While Black is still regarded as a classic metal album (and I agree that it definitely is), it also angered many of their hardcore fans because they saw it as commercialized album.

I didn't mean to say that this was "the beginning of the end" in terms of Metallica's career, creative flavor, gusto, or viability. It was, however, the end of their initial speed metal phase. I don't think anyone can really argue that after "...And Justice for All" they lost a certain edge to their music that had, up until that point, kept them fairly restricted to an underground following and word-of-mouth circulation. Granted, their sound has changed with each album...each has its own flavor and theme. But the entire structure of how their songs were written became more mainstream-oriented as of Black.

But don't get me wrong. I'm just like you Welsh, I love the post-Black stuff too. In fact, I posted a thread on the training board several months ago asking people what their favorite album to train to was. I said mine was S&M because I find most tracks on it fascinating. (Maybe you can find it in the archives.) Of course some people thought i was crazy for selecting that particular album. But if my house was on fire and I could only grab the pre-Black albums or the post-Black stuff, I would probably grab the early stuff. (Okay, bad analogy I know but...)

Originally posted by 6(SIC)6
You are right about the length of the tracks aswel, thats something i didn't notice, they are all shortened now, it's like they are not putting in the effort that they used to.

I wasn't saying that they aren't putting forth the same effort as before. My only point was that the tracks off Black seem more oriented for a broader-based fan appeal and increased radio airtime. It was unlikely that tracks as long as "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" and "Call of the Ktulu" were gonna be heard on the radio.

Originally posted by 6(SIC)6
Master of Puppets is DEFINATELY the best album, i like every song on it except 'the thing that should not be'.

LOL! I agree. I love every song on that album but "The Thing That Should Not Be." It just doesn't do anything for me.

 

[6(SIC)6]

Does it matter how much you pay for an album that makes it good or not????
The backstreet boys album's are way more than guns n' roses appetitte for destruction, which IS the best album of all time IMO.
I t stayed in the US album chart for 3 years, and still sells over 6000 copies a week....it was released in 1987!!!
But, it still costs half the price of a linkin park, backstreet boys or britney album.

I didn't say it matters, i just said that even the big record executives are aware that the Black album is not worth charging people full price for.

slipknot have been number one for 6 weeks, great for them..but they will never be a guns n' roses or metallica talent wise.
Their guitarists cant compete with slash or hammet, no matter how big they are!

Actually they can but seeing as you refuse to actually listen to the complicity of Mick and James' riffs on the new album, you wont know that. And at soundcheck you should hear them solo it sounds great (soundcheck in case you dont know is when they check all their instruments before a show to see if they are working). Theres no solos in SlipKnots music because it's not that kind of music.

And so what if the metallica stuff on the black album is slower paced, that does not mean shit.
Nothing else matters, imo is one of the best songs they have ever done, and a cracking solo in there from james(so much for his arms falling off!!) it is packed full of raw emotion....great track.

Actually it does mean shit, it means that they dropped ALOT of their fans that were into the fast stuff, me for instance.

I whole-heartedly agree that nothing else matters is one of their best songs, i learnt it a few months back and it sounds great.

And the solo is by Kirk not james, so my argument that james' arms have fallen off still stands lol

I said that slipknot were sell outs because they had auditioned members brought into the band(auditioned by the record label)....ok their sound did'nt change much at all, but i still class this as way more of a sell out than what metallica did by changing producers, labels or whatever.
Slipknot, imo have always made nu metal so can't be called sellouts for making that type of music, but by having some of their line up auditioned to me is just like a boy band, but targeted at a different audience.
Boy bands target young girls
Nu metal is targeted at the gothic/nu metal trend

They only auditioned ONE member, but i dont think you realise what SORT of auditoning, or even what auditioning is. You cant just get any old person to join a band you know, you have to know that they can actually play. So they sat down the member and said 'play'. He played, SlipKnot liked his skills, he was in. Thats all their is to it. How is that making them 'just like a boyband'? I really fail to see your logic.

And for the record i have NEVER ONCE SEEN any goth who was into SlipKnot, infact they hate them. They know that they are standard straight Heavy Metal which they are not into because it's got nothing to do with death and such.

I am not having a go at goths with that comment, but slipknot are deffinatley targeted at that audience to make as much money as they can....that is why they were auditioned, to make them more marketable.
I dont blame any band for trying to make money, after all thats what they are paid to do....but dont call metallica sellouts when the band you like haved 'sold out' way more than metallica have.

This is where you really start to piss me off.


What are you on about, 'to make them more marketable'!??

They're NOT in it for the money like fucking metallica are what with them and the napster thing.

You dont see SlipKnot crying about napster, in fact they condone it.

Now if metallica were'nt in it for the money they wouldn't care about napster, but they do. In fact, when fans say for them to leave napster alone they tell them to fuck off!! SlipKnot would never do that, they respect their fans, and they would never 'suck the money dick' as the singer Corey so nicely puts it.


You go on about SlipKnot selling out and such, what the fuck!?? They havn't even fucking changed!! They've only been around for like, 2 years!!

Now metallica, first they release the black album, lose alot of fans because of the style of music change. Then they release load and the other shit. Lose more fans. THEN, they go and have a cry about napster, which is perfect evidence suggesting they are only in it for the money, nowadays anyway.

Now how can you say that SlipKnot have sold out more than metallica, when SlipKnot havn't even DONE ANYTHING!!??

 

[buffal2001]

o dear dear dear sic...........still hung up on this debate.......slipknot have now appeared on MTV now sic meaning one thing.......selling out signs....i think so!

 

[GaryWary]

Anyone hear of Static-X? They rock.

Slipknot have one decent track imho - wait and bleed. It's a blinder.

Auditioned? What about Linkin Park - the boy band of metal....

 

[Welsh power house]

No, the solo in nothing else matters IS DEFFINATLEY DONE BY JAMES HETTFEILD...have you seent he video?
I know hammet is the lead guitarist, but james does also perform solos on not just that song but on others....such as orion on M.O.P....he does the first(i think) and hammet does most of the others.

I'm sorry bro, but i think most will agree that slash and hammet are indeed of a different class to the slipknot guys(dont know names) you may be thinking right, he is just saying this because he hates them, not at all, i have heard them and dont think too much of them, dont hate, just dislike their music and dont rate them at all compared to the likes of guns n' roses and metallica.
I do on the other hand think they are just as good as most other bands of today, but you have to agree, even though, you prefer slipknots music to listen to, guns n' roses and metallica are more talented regardless of tatse.

I was not saying it about the band slipknot, but the people behind them are trying to make money, as every label, producer ect wants.

Over here goths of all ages think of slipknot as Gods, but people everywhere change, the goths over there might hate them, i dont know....Christ, we are on the other side of the wolrd!! things and people change from place to place.

LOL, buffal....yeah, they are always on MTV over here, that to me is selling out....my opinion.

Right, you say that you dont like the black album and how they lost alot of their fans with this album, including you in one of your comments, then say you love nothing else matters and have learnt the song in another???
Please you are making contradictions so i dont know where you are coming from with alot of your comments.

to go on about the selling out point, yeah ok, it is not for me to say what selling out is....but, seeing them on MTV with the likes of the backstreet boys speaks alot louder than metallica complaining that their music was being given away.
Hey, if someone tryed to take away my livlyhood i would be pissed..i dont blame them or care that they wanted napster shut down, i would have done the same.

In my mind metallica are far more musically talented than slipknot are and by the looks of their latest video on MTV, better than they ever will be.

peace

 

[Jitsuka]

I said that slipknot were sell outs because they had auditioned members brought into the band(auditioned by the record label)....ok their sound did'nt change much at all, but i still class this as way more of a sell out than what metallica did by changing producers, labels or whatever.

Oh no, they auditioned A band member!! What were you expecting?

Joey: "So your the first guy to audition, we dont need to hear you play anything, your in!"

They have to at least check some things you know.

Slipknot, imo have always made nu metal so can't be called sellouts for making that type of music, but by having some of their line up auditioned to me is just like a boy band, but targeted at a different audience.

Listen.



Slipknot.



Arent.



Nu.



Metal.

I cant make this any clearer to you can I? I have pointed this out to you several times. They have nu-metal influences, but they themselves are NOT NU METAL.

Boy bands target young girls
Nu metal is targeted at the gothic/nu metal trend

As for nu-metal, see above.

Nu-metal is targeted at goths? you insist on using tags for a group of people you still havent explained (Unless ive missed it whilest ive been watching this threead.) Slipknot is not gothic music. Goths generally dont like this. They are the people dressed in black, who will generally be seen wearing pale make up. This is the best example i could dig up at short notice as an example.

(If it doesnt work go to properties and copy, paste the address into your address bar.)

This is a Goth. If you have Goths in Wales that say that Slipknot is gothic music I know several groups of goths from round the country who would like to meert up with them for a little chat.

I am not having a go at goths with that comment, but slipknot are deffinatley targeted at that audience to make as much money as they can....that is why they were auditioned, to make them more marketable.
I dont blame any band for trying to make money, after all thats what they are paid to do....but dont call metallica sellouts when the band you like have 'sold out' way more than metallica have.I was not saying it about the band slipknot, but the people behind them are trying to make money, as every label, producer ect wants.

If theyre in it for the money then why the f*ck are they playing music that is essentially (wether marketed or not) is gonna be a minority audience? They are never gonna make the money that the BSB, or 5ive or any other of the happy horse shit crap thats in the charts is so why bother? Answer, they dont care.

LOL, buffal....yeah, they are always on MTV over here, that to me is selling out....my opinion.

So Metallica have NEVER had a video on MTV? EVER?

In my mind metallica are far more musically talented than slipknot are and by the looks of their latest video on MTV, better than they ever will be.

Of course by LOOKING at a video you can tell how good a band is. That is perfectly reasonable logic of course.

Just thought id add my 2p again.

 

[Thaibox]

PANTERA dammit

 

[LuciferLovesYou]

Ah yes, Pantera, another great band.

 

[Welsh power house]

pantera are class!

Yeah, sorry mate, 90% of the goths here in wales love slipknot, i think goths suck in my opinion, and everyone gives people a label so fuck off and dont judge me you silly little cunt!

 

[Jitsuka]

pantera are class!

Yeah, sorry mate, 90% of the goths here in wales love slipknot, i think goths suck in my opinion, and everyone gives people a label so fuck off and dont judge me you silly little cunt!

Oh im so sorry about judging you in my post, it wont ha. . . . hold on, where exactly did i judge you? Alls i said was that you were saying "Goths" like Slipknot, without explaining what a "Goth" is by you. You say that Slipknot is "Gothic" music based on the "Goths" by you, when i know for a fact that Slipknot isnt Gothic.