Me at 185 lol, 4 Weeks in

[Little Boy]

rao740...how many calories a day do you eat? Protien?

And be honest. Lying isn't gonna help....a lot of guys lie about that, and they're only cheating themselves!

 

[Outtlaw]

slat appreciate ur help thanks bro, also van ur a help in what u sent me, I am goignt o dropp susut to 500 mgs ew instead of 750 mgs ew I am going to keep EQ at 500 casue thats what I have gtp 500 mg eq split inot 250 with every sust shot and I what would anyone reccomend for the tren at the last 4 weeks 75 mg eod or 100 mgs ed or what let know so i can beefit from what i am using, aslo just wnat to add as for food today,

rao740

As I said before, I dont think your doses are that high. You're just using 5 different things when you could've probably gotten by with 3. Also, 750mg of sust seems high, but you have to realise that it's sust and you never really get the full 750mg acting all at once like you would with enanthate. I would've kept the sust and eq, and then picked one other thing to run with it... (if you really felt you needed it). It's a little late now to change the cycle if you're already well into it. You just have to do what you think is best. Next time, run your cycle by a few people for some critiques if your not sure about it.

 

[karachi183]

thanks bluesy, I like it that way I mena my room I know wher everyhting is also all that is clean if u can beleive that, fresh out the dryer never put it away though thats a lot of work hahaha

Keep up the good work and drop the doses just a little. You'll get to 200 easily over this winter with not that much gear at all and then after the winter get juiced to gills again. IMO you don't need anymore gear to reach 200. Solid Base bro keep it up!!!!

 

[rao740]

rao740...how many calories a day do you eat? Protien?

And be honest. Lying isn't gonna help....a lot of guys lie about that, and they're only cheating themselves!

cals are probably around 4500 or give or take depending on which shakes i drink but anywhere from 3500 to 4500 roughly, and protien is about 150 to 200 mg ed, I eat like a pig, so i hope to keep growing any suggestions with trianing or diet?


rao740

 

[slat1]

Check out the stuff I PM'd you. You will be glad you did. It takes time to put on quality muscle. Do it right and you will be happy.
*Side note... My goal is 250 at 8% or lower. Girls love lean guys. I love girls. Yeah I feel skinny. They love it though. I'm sure once I get to 250 I will think "why not 260 with abs?" LOL

 

[van_wilder]

i don't give a fuck what your doses are, i am personally getting sick of the whole you don't need gear shit. i'm a hardgainer too, i was stuck at 140 for ever eating 4500 cals or more and nothing but a sick stomach. one cycle of deca at 600 bam i am at 165, first off, you look good man, i think your arms could use a bit more mass, but like said before girls love that look i can tell you for a fact. my girl thinks i am too big and i think i am a to thin. keep up the work, eat up and enjoy, fuck the haters. i think if you want to outright flame rao have a pic of yourself under it. now slat1 you are walking the walk not just talking, then again your just giving your opinion not flamin. i think everyone on ef should have to post a pic in their gallery. there are too many guys claiming to be 235 single digit bf. my fucking ass. guys like us come on and are honest about are stats and get flamed, and i prefer to be small and shredded than big and flabby. keep your weight up rao. 12 more pounds is cake if you eat right on that cycle. as slat said use that hcg like its crack and your addicted. your gonna have a tough recovery otherwise.
410 is out. sorry if i was a dick bros been movin cross country and have had no sleep.

Edited for stupidity.
VW

 

[Bruce]

yes... 16 year old girls are impressed by the 160lb look because you'd be the biggest kid in their high school

this post is a waste of thread paste as far as I'm concerned. I've PM'd RAO with diet advice and a pic... so don't run your mouth until you know the entire situation. I'm not gonna post a pic for you because I don't see the point. I've posted pics on here before and I therefore stand by my original posts. RAO i hope the PM's help you out...and like i said PM me anytime you need advice on diet or training. good luck bro
VW

i wasn't running my mouth to you bro, i was in a shitty mood and i get sick of hardgainers being flamed when we are trying for the same thing. my comments were not directed at you, just in general there has been a lot of "you have no business on aas" comments on many threads lately and its not like a guy who is mid cycle is gonna just drop it cause we say to. ive seen your pics van and i complimented you. slat i was just saying your not all talk and i respect that nothing more. you look awesome. i love this site i just wish that people who weigh under 200lbs could get some respect being that we all have different goals. if you had a 28 inch waist and were 125 as a frosh in college, 170 is pretty nice to be at. like i said van your a good bro, i was just tired stickin up for a fellow ecto. hope there are no hard feelings man.

 

[van_wilder]

i wasn't running my mouth to you bro, i was in a shitty mood and i get sick of hardgainers being flamed when we are trying for the same thing. my comments were not directed at you, just in general there has been a lot of "you have no business on aas" comments on many threads lately and its not like a guy who is mid cycle is gonna just drop it cause we say to. ive seen your pics van and i complimented you. slat i was just saying your not all talk and i respect that nothing more. you look awesome. i love this site i just wish that people who weigh under 200lbs could get some respect being that we all have different goals. if you had a 28 inch waist and were 125 as a frosh in college, 170 is pretty nice to be at. like i said van your a good bro, i was just tired stickin up for a fellow ecto. hope there are no hard feelings man.

Yeah bro...i definately jumped the gun and that one and my negative comments weren't warranted. definately no hard feelings.
VW

 

[Madcow2]

Mon -
chest and back
incline bench 4 sets 8 reps
flat bench same as above
incline fly's """"""""""""""""""
decline bench 4 sets 8 reps

back
Lat pull downs 3 sets 8 reps
seated row 3 sets 8 reps
hanmmer high row 3 sets 8 reps
wide grip pull ups to faliure

tues - OFF

Wed -

shoulders and biceps

setaed shoulder presses smae sets reps as above
1 arm front riases same set reps
delt machine - same
rear delts same
shruggs - 4 sets 12 reps BB and DB

biceps -
BB curls 4 sets 12 to 15 reps
seated inclien curls 4 sets 8 reps
hammer curls superset 30 DB to 10 DB 4 sets
concentrated precher DB curls

thurs - OFF

Friady - legs and triceps

BB squats 5 sets 8 reps
leg extention 3 sets 8 reps
leg press 3 sets 8 reps
standing calf raises, seated calf raises 4 sets 15 reps

triceps -
skull crushes 4 sets 8 reps
rope pull down 4 sets 8 reps or superset them 12 reps to 4 sets to faliure
DB kick back 3 sets 8 reps
weighteed dipps and unwieghted also 4 sets to faliure


ABBS every day I work out and before bed on days off with soem push up also on off days,

food


shakes are cyto gainer in the AM before bed also muscle milk 1 or 2 during day with a meal, breakfats consist of at least 4 egggs bagel ornage juice too

lunch, usually 2 can tuna mayo white bread, shake, maybe more,

sdnacks are same tuna fish 11 or 16 oz steaks from work when i get teher after gym with rice potatoes ect

after work out to eat past chix thne home to ahve shake them sleep by 1 am and up at 9 am to do it allk ove r agian aso what would u suggest in any of what i have told you

Program is not designed to add mass to a natural - which is probably why you are using roids and a lot of them - and you need to look at total mg intake not just say that the Equ isn't out of line. 25mg of dbol isn't out of line either but if it's combined with a bunch of other crap for 1.5 grams a week, on someone who is 6' and 180 - that's a lot.

I know a lot of guys' programs look like this but then again, these are the guys who most often need roids to see consistent progress - if you have problems putting on weight naturally it's this and your diet. It's not enough to go in and work hard (and least not after the very beginning). You need a plan that provides for focused consistent progression.

Your back exercises are horrid. Conventional Deads, Barbell Rows, and Pullups. Get off the machines and cables in general. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of isolation work and that's all well and nice if you are looking to refine an existing physique but if you want to get big you had best learn to love squatting, benching, pulling (deads), rowing, overhead press, and chins. You don't really need anything else to pack on muscle as fast as possible and it will almost always develop very symmetrically so don't get overly concerned that if you don't do Hammer Iso Ass Squeezes your butt crack will get out of alignment. If isolation work is thrown in without real tangible reason (i.e. your program and most) it decreases your ability to carry more load in the big exercises and perform them more frequenty . Since these drive 95% of your results, don't waste your efforts on the garbage unless there's a good reason and when trying to add muscle for a novice developing general foundation there's simply not one. In addition frequency is linked to specificity and then adaptation. In short, if you do an exercise a lot - your body will adapt to the movement much faster than if you try to do a bunch of crap and only train that single exercise for a bit of volume once per week. There is massive research to back this up. It's just a matter of balancing volume, frequency, and intensity (%1RM - not preceived effort) for a given athelte's capacity.

Also, it's nice that your diet is under control but the most important thing is caloric excess and this is absolutely critical for a novice. You need to eat and gain weight - if you don't gain weight (any combination of fat or muscle) then there's no excess. A good program should keep most of the weight gain muscle - if you are putting on mostly fat and you aren't getting stronger in the big lifts, it's a program issue. Also - your diet does not need to be clean to gain muscle (if it is, kudos to you) but you absolutely must have caloric excess. Ultra clean food blessed by the Pope himself with no caloric excess = no muscle gain. McDonalds and friend chicken all day long with caloric excess = muscle gain. So excess must be present, it need not intersect with clean and healthy but if it does that's a nice healthy thing so pat yourself on the back and get get in the squat rack.

These are some of the best writeups around on the squat, bench, and dead (as well as the snatch) - no matter how long you've been lifting you will learn a great deal: http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=14

This is a basic type of program to add muscle and strength to an athlete as fast as possible. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15. As a matter of fact, it's been around for over 30 years and you'll find variants today used all the way from novices to the best athletes in the world. It doesn't look much like your program or a typical BBer program but that's why it works and doesn't require roids for good results. It gets the big lifts up as fast as possible and doesn't dilute itself with garbage. It's worked for naturals, not so naturals, guys, girls, everyone and all ages - although there are obviously many different variants of the program because some high school kid isn't going to handle the same workload and volume as an elite lifter.

A lot more info in this thread on programs, programming, and training theory: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

 

[tatman3177]

Program is not designed to add mass to a natural - which is probably why you are using roids and a lot of them - and you need to look at total mg intake not just say that the Equ isn't out of line. 25mg of dbol isn't out of line either but if it's combined with a bunch of other crap for 1.5 grams a week, on someone who is 6' and 180 - that's a lot.

I know a lot of guys' programs look like this but then again, these are the guys who most often need roids to see consistent progress - if you have problems putting on weight naturally it's this and your diet. It's not enough to go in and work hard (and least not after the very beginning). You need a plan that provides for focused consistent progression.

Your back exercises are horrid. Conventional Deads, Barbell Rows, and Pullups. Get off the machines and cables in general. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of isolation work and that's all well and nice if you are looking to refine an existing physique but if you want to get big you had best learn to love squatting, benching, pulling (deads), rowing, overhead press, and chins. You don't really need anything else to pack on muscle as fast as possible and it will almost always develop very symmetrically so don't get overly concerned that if you don't do Hammer Iso Ass Squeezes your butt crack will get out of alignment. If isolation work is thrown in without real tangible reason (i.e. your program and most) it decreases your ability to carry more load in the big exercises and perform them more frequenty . Since these drive 95% of your results, don't waste your efforts on the garbage unless there's a good reason and when trying to add muscle for a novice developing general foundation there's simply not one. In addition frequency is linked to specificity and then adaptation. In short, if you do an exercise a lot - your body will adapt to the movement much faster than if you try to do a bunch of crap and only train that single exercise for a bit of volume once per week. There is massive research to back this up. It's just a matter of balancing volume, frequency, and intensity (%1RM - not preceived effort) for a given athelte's capacity.

Also, it's nice that your diet is under control but the most important thing is caloric excess and this is absolutely critical for a novice. You need to eat and gain weight - if you don't gain weight (any combination of fat or muscle) then there's no excess. A good program should keep most of the weight gain muscle - if you are putting on mostly fat and you aren't getting stronger in the big lifts, it's a program issue. Also - your diet does not need to be clean to gain muscle (if it is, kudos to you) but you absolutely must have caloric excess. Ultra clean food blessed by the Pope himself with no caloric excess = no muscle gain. McDonalds and friend chicken all day long with caloric excess = muscle gain. So excess must be present, it need not intersect with clean and healthy but if it does that's a nice healthy thing so pat yourself on the back and get get in the squat rack.

These are some of the best writeups around on the squat, bench, and dead (as well as the snatch) - no matter how long you've been lifting you will learn a great deal: http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=14

This is a basic type of program to add muscle and strength to an athlete as fast as possible. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15. As a matter of fact, it's been around for over 30 years and you'll find variants today used all the way from novices to the best athletes in the world. It doesn't look much like your program or a typical BBer program but that's why it works and doesn't require roids for good results. It gets the big lifts up as fast as possible and doesn't dilute itself with garbage. It's worked for naturals, not so naturals, guys, girls, everyone and all ages - although there are obviously many different variants of the program because some high school kid isn't going to handle the same workload and volume as an elite lifter.

A lot more info in this thread on programs, programming, and training theory: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

this is a damn good response.
madcow ive seen personally the effect of the advice mentioned here and more to a good bro. hell ive even followed the same advice myself . tremendous change.