MASS question.......Madcow?

[JKurz1]

There is a trainer in my gym who has been working with all the pro athletes in the area (Cavs, Browns, etc...) I was watching them train and aside from agility drills, all they do is the basics, squats, bench, cleans, medicine ball work, etc. Anyways, most, if not all, of the lifts are geared to the 3-5 range. I finally got to pick his brain for a second and he said it was strictly a speed, agility, strength program. Ok. Then I asked what is best for MASS. He said, without question, 10s,12,15s as its all time under tention = mass. I said, but doesnt mass come with strength? He said yeah, but if you want serious mass, you need to move lighter weights, higher reps, quick rest periods, and supersets.

Wht do you think about this? Accurate?

 

[Madcow2]

Wht do you think about this? Accurate?

No, I don't feel that's accurate and I doubt a lot of others would either. Granted it might be beneficial for a pure hypertrophy goal to spend a part of the year doing higher rep work but I doubt you'll find much consensus that sets of 10-15 are optimal or even necessary for great hypertrophy results.

 

[mrhoon]

I remember reading an article some time ago that stated ( opion or study???) when a power or strength athlete switched to a higher volume routine they added mass very quickly. But again I don't remember the source, or if it is valid. But I would disagree that lighter weights will make you grow. Break me out of a plateau, yes. Years ago I tried some routine that called for 10 sets of 10, on compound movements, ouch! But after recovery I came back feeling much stronger. Done that a few times.

 

[JKurz1]

I dont know about 10 x 10, but 8-12 rep range appears to be sound advice...at least the time under tention part with very very brief rest periods. In my opinion, people waste too much time standing around.....no reason a session should take more than 45 minutes, plain and simple.

 

[mrhoon]

Here's a link to an article on the 10x10 routine, called German Training Volume.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

There are many others if you google German Volume Training. I wouldn't do this for very long at all. Too much stress on joints, tendons etc. But like I said, it has pulled me out of a slump more than once. Really makes me appreciate 5x5.

 

[guldukat]

I dont know about 10 x 10, but 8-12 rep range appears to be sound advice...at least the time under tention part with very very brief rest periods. In my opinion, people waste too much time standing around.....no reason a session should take more than 45 minutes, plain and simple.

I think you or the fellow to whom you spoke are trying to put two distinct things under one umbrella. Time under tension doesn't refer to the percentage one spends actually lifting or resting during a workout; it refers to set duration. For example, doing a 1RM would be very low TUT. 30-60 seconds would be moderate to high TUT. A 2 min. set or 20 rep breathing squat would be very high TUT, and so on.

In any case, if there is merit to TUT (some studies have supposedly shown sets lasting between 30-60 seconds are "ideal" for size increases, but that's a whole other can of worms), it'd only be to the extent that it'd permit you to lift progressively heavier weights.

That would best be served by more, not less, rest. More rest = higher output = more reps = higher TUT.

 

[JKurz1]

I think you or the fellow to whom you spoke are trying to put two distinct things under one umbrella. Time under tension doesn't refer to the percentage one spends actually lifting or resting during a workout; it refers to set duration. For example, doing a 1RM would be very low TUT. 30-60 seconds would be moderate to high TUT. A 2 min. set or 20 rep breathing squat would be very high TUT, and so on.

In any case, if there is merit to TUT (some studies have supposedly shown sets lasting between 30-60 seconds are "ideal" for size increases, but that's a whole other can of worms), it'd only be to the extent that it'd permit you to lift progressively heavier weights.

That would best be served by more, not less, rest. More rest = higher output = more reps = higher TUT.

so what do u suggest?

 

[guldukat]

so what do u suggest?

About what, exactly? Training in general, TUT or resting between sets?

 

[b fold the truth]

I beieve that "The Shadow" once said:

"Everything works. Nothing works for long."

B True

 

[JKurz1]

thats so true b fold.....yet, I still get ridiculed for inquiring about new theories...it's because if I'm stuck at the same weight for more than 3 sessions, I want a switch!

Best for mass? TUT , sets, reps, etc? Suggestions? Pure mass.....strength comes second.

 

[Madcow2]

Plenty of good proven programs linked at the top sticky but without being a novice or drugged you can't expect instant success. Like anything worthwhile, you have to be willing to invest some time, effort, and stick with a plan.

 

[rbtrout]

10-15 reps is what most of the bb mags say you should do to build mass. If that's the case, then how would they explain the 5X5?

 

[Sub-Zero]

I think you or the fellow to whom you spoke are trying to put two distinct things under one umbrella. Time under tension doesn't refer to the percentage one spends actually lifting or resting during a workout; it refers to set duration. For example, doing a 1RM would be very low TUT. 30-60 seconds would be moderate to high TUT. A 2 min. set or 20 rep breathing squat would be very high TUT, and so on.

In any case, if there is merit to TUT (some studies have supposedly shown sets lasting between 30-60 seconds are "ideal" for size increases, but that's a whole other can of worms), it'd only be to the extent that it'd permit you to lift progressively heavier weights.

That would best be served by more, not less, rest. More rest = higher output = more reps = higher TUT.

yeah i heard TUT as this too, i overheard a trainer telling one of his clients to go very slow and steady while focusing on the muscles and slow and controlled and then he said "cause that increases time under tension and what gets you results...blah blah"

i say fuck it and just expload through

 

[blut wump]

Explode up and you can do more reps or sets since you'll be less tired.

 

[b fold the truth]

Remember this...

1) That coach said that he was an athletic trainer. That means that he trains athletes and that is his specialty. If you want to know about what bodybuilders do...you need to find a real bodybuilder and work with them.

2) When you find a bodybuilder they are hopefully going to explain a few things to you:
a) At a decent level they will use 6-8 grams of Test a week added with 2-3 kits of gh a month, slin t3, orals, etc.
b) Because of the large amounts of AAS that their body is consuming...their muscles will be recovering faster than their joints, tendons, ligaments, and CNS will be. With this in mind...they need to put less stress on those joints, tendons, ligaments, and their CNS so that they can train them more often.

If they do not...they will either undertrain while waiting for them to recover (and lose size) or end up getting injured by training too frequent or with too much volume.

How do they do that? By doing different exercises, more reps, less weight.

Make no bones about it...the gear does make training a totally different set of theories and laws at that point. Knowing that will hopefully allow you to understand that YOU have to do what YOU have to do to get to where you want to be. To do that...YOU have to experiment and continue to adapt faster than your body does because what works for you this year...will NOT next year.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

Bfold is wise...and right on about ergo use of gear and training methodologies

 

[H_T_]

it's been hotter than fuck in my gym lately, all my numbers have plummeted.....

 

[blut wump]

Thanks for that insight, bfold. That gear-related aspect of muscle recovery Vs. recovery of everything else had never occurred to me.