Marijuana Kills

[jerseyrugger76]

great point!

Why are you against kiddie porn? I can tell you why I am.

It victimizes CHILDREN. They are not old enough to consent to doing porn, its damaging and a form of abuse.

But back to your original point, you are unwilling to spend tax money on what exactly? billions are spent on the incarceration of drug offenders, I thought you said you weren't willing to spend tax dollars on the issue?

On no, my dear, I'm unwilling to subsidize the amendment process and the drafting of new FDA standards for the production and distribution of little pot cigarettes just to make a small band of hippies happy.

 

[Lestat]

Let's break down the argument here.

We have things in this society that do bad things to people: incapacitate them, make them less productive, estrange them from one another. If we consider the case of DUI, these other perfectly legal things could be DEADLY.

THIS is your argument FOR the legalization of POT???? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Why in God's name would any society of sane people EVER agree to legalizing ANYTHING with the same deleterious effects as all of the other aforementioned substances. Are things not bad enough???

that's an easy one.

Because if everything that could be detrimental to society, or even a single individual was illegal, you wouldn't be able to do any of the following:

drive a car
eat anything with saturated fat
drink alcohol
have sex
post on the internet (carpal tunnel is a bitch)
cough or sneeze in public
etc etc.

Is that the kind of place you wish to live in? We all make personal choices as to risk/reward. I'd say we all engage in some sort of risky behavior (some more than some). Those are choices I choose to leave to the individual as long as it can stay more or less confined to the invidual.

Alcohol users put non alcohol users at risk every single day. I agree with the legislation and laws we have around it. We persecute drunk drivers vehemently. In California its a FELONY to drive intoxicated, the legal limits are VERY low, and your 2nd offense is gonna get you mandatory jail time! I have no problem whatsoever with this because driving drunk is not a simple personal choice, its a choice to put other's in harms way.

We don't attack the alcohol use, you can drink in the privacy of your own home as much as you want, but we attack the negative effects and behaviors that could result from it. Its not illegal to be an alcoholic, and we'll still even treat you for liver disease and the like that in some cases cost other people indirectly.

 

[p0ink]

my main problem with the WOD is the heavy handed tactics police departments across the country are using.

i get really sick and tired of reading about 'no-knock' warrants being executed across the country where some, if not all, the people/animals in the house get murdered.

the police departments are even starting to do no-knock warrants, at night, wearing plain clothes. can you not see how that is a recipe for disaster?

the police can 'accidentally' kill someone and it will be justified as 'having to make a life-or-death decision in a split second. ok, but what happens if joe sixpack american did the same thing and killed a plain clothes police officer banging his door down at 4am? he will be facing capital muder.

i'm not pro-drug...i am pro-constitution.

 

[Lestat]

On no, my dear, I'm unwilling to subsidize the amendment process and the drafting of new FDA standards for the production and distribution of little pot cigarettes just to make a small band of hippies happy.

That doesn't make sense to me. You don't want to pay for an amendment process (keep in mind, we're not paying the legislature overtime to vote on this bill) that would ultimately save billions of dollars in law enforcement costs? Why not?

 

[jerseyrugger76]

that's an easy one.

Because if everything that could be detrimental to society, or even a single individual was illegal, you wouldn't be able to do any of the following:

drive a car
eat anything with saturated fat
drink alcohol
have sex
post on the internet (carpal tunnel is a bitch)
cough or sneeze in public
etc etc.

Is that the kind of place you wish to live in? We all make personal choices as to risk/reward. I'd say we all engage in some sort of risky behavior (some more than some). Those are choices I choose to leave to the individual as long as it can stay more or less confined to the invidual.

Alcohol users put non alcohol users at risk every single day. I agree with the legislation and laws we have around it. We persecute drunk drivers vehemently. In California its a FELONY to drive intoxicated, the legal limits are VERY low, and your 2nd offense is gonna get you mandatory jail time! I have no problem whatsoever with this because driving drunk is not a simple personal choice, its a choice to put other's in harms way.

We don't attack the alcohol use, you can drink in the privacy of your own home as much as you want, but we attack the negative effects and behaviors that could result from it. Its not illegal to be an alcoholic, and we'll still even treat you for liver disease and the like that in some cases cost other people indirectly.

Ok, you should NEVER use California as an example of why it's bad to get pinched for DUI -- witness the stiff sentences faced by Lindsay Lohan and Nicole Richie.

And, you're right, we don't attack people for doing shit in the privacy of their own homes, which is why the police haven't busted in of your burnt out ass yet. So, as long as you aren't running drugs, Lestat, you'll likely be ok.

 

[Lestat]

Thanks JR, Jnev, and bino for the robust debate!

This is something I constantlly struggle with. One side of me thinks, lets outlaw anything that negatively affects society as a whole. Why do I think this? Because I do favor taxes and social programs that may cost certain people on an individual basis, but ultimately are for the great good and help the majority.

So how do I reconcile that viewpoint with the fact that I think we should allow people personal freedoms, even if they could be detrimental to themselves, which in turn could be detrimental to society (like I always say, we don't exist in a vaccum).

I would imagine I'd struggle with this either way, lets say I was in favor of abolishing all social ills, alcohol, ciggs, juice, weed, all rec drugs. Any lets say my argument was that it would increase overall productivity and prosperity for the entire nation. Seems rational right.

The part that becomes subjective an unquantifiable for me is the personal freedom aspect. Should people be allowed to do things that could harm them? That could make them less productive? That could in generall cause the quality of life for others to go down.

Somewhere a subjective line has to be drawn, it seems like ever individual does this for themselves, and together as a society we figure out where that is. It also seems to change very frequently. So what am I doing when I argue my case? I'm stating where I draw my personal lines and where I would want those lines to be drawn as a nation.

I tend to believe that we should allow people as much personal freedom as possible in so much as it doesn't negatively affect others. This is far easier said than done because in many cases its near impossible to quantify all of the ramifications of some behaviors.


At the end of the day, I'd love sit around in person, the 4 of us, and pass the peace pipe!

 

[jerseyrugger76]

Until then!

 

[Lestat]

Ok, you should NEVER use California as an example of why it's bad to get pinched for DUI -- witness the stiff sentences faced by Lindsay Lohan and Nicole Richie.

And, you're right, we don't attack people for doing shit in the privacy of their own homes, which is why the police haven't busted in of your burnt out ass yet. So, as long as you aren't running drugs, Lestat, you'll likely be ok.

those celeb cases are bullshit. I know a dozen people or more who have gotten a DUI, a couple of them TWICE, and they have paid dearly. I have no sympathy either, the empiracle evidence shows that driving while drunk leads to death.. not all of the time, not even most of the time, but its too great of a risk.

 

[jnevin]

I won't inhale.

 

[Lestat]

I won't inhale.

hahahahah serious? how about some salvia divinorium? its still legal