MadCows 5x5

[wnt2bBeast]

I'll be glad to help. You can really add arms or swap military to incline. These are very common additions and substitutions - tried and true, they won't screw it up at all. I've just become kind of shellshocked because I remember a period when this program was new here where I had 5 different people in 3 days PMing me with changes they wanted to make (like creating a 3 day split from it and all kinds of stuff). It is very very hard to convince people used to BBing and the Weider Bullshit-Intuitive Training Principle not to screw with a program.

whcih is prolly the reason that those routines dont yeild the kind of results they should..after a week or two the routine looks like something out of flex instead of the way it was laid out

 

[super_rice]

i think the biggest thing that everyone is trying to get at is to stop thinking of training as "tuesday, arms and back, saturday, triceps and chest" or whatever. 5x5 uses all the major compound exercises that will create growth over your entire body, and it does it as often as possible.

have your read any of the dual factor stuff on meso that madcow provided?

the reason why we don't overtrain on the program and the reason why it works is because of dual factor theory, and the way it enables us a template of how to load and deload the body and CNS to get maximal performance on a more systematic basis.

my advice is to learn all those movements and know how to do them with flawless form, because you will be doing them a helluva lot (which you should be).

honestly, do a couple of curls and work your abs hard in the 1st, 2nd, deloading, 6th, and 7th weeks. all the other weeks are record weeks. if you paid your dues on the record days - some days you'll be setting a couple of PRs (if this is your first time, like it was for me) so you'll not want to hang around and do 10000000 curls.

one problem i have with the program is that there is no speed only work. after finishing 5x5 i'm a lot stronger, but a lot less fast.

 

[blut wump]

There's a week's worth of reading mostly on various dual factor aspects and workouts here:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/

The 3x3 by Korte would have you doing nothing but squat, bench and deadlift three times a week, all three lifts on the same day. Obviously that one is aimed squarely at powerlifters. This one by madcow seems like a version well-balanced for general strength throughout the body.

For anyone interested in learning more about dual-factor training and periodization, I'd recommend reading through some or all of those articles. I probably got the link from one of madcow's posts, anyway.

 

[Madcow2]

Deepquatter has a lot of good stuff. I ran Korte's program years ago - 1998-1999 maybe. That thing is a nightmare. Every workout is an event. I'd get through my squats and get on the bench which was like a vacation but in the back of my mind I always knew the deads were coming. It works very well and your core lifts are going to get really good and technically sounds with all the practice but it is very taxing and you leave the gym soundly beaten.

 

[mcr]

Is Wednesday supposed to be that much more volume than the other days? There are 20 sets in there, plus warm-ups (ok the 5 squat sets are lighter but they won't be a walk in the park). Given reasonable rest periods (3-4 mins between work sets maybe more for deads) and a bunch of warm-ups, this means somewhere between 1.5-2 hours in the gym? Is this correct, or should I be moving swifter between sets? I am very keen to do this program, but I am used to 40 mins each session with much lower volume than this. Please advise! Thanks.

 

[Madcow2]

The wednesday squats go fast and don't rachet up as fast in weight as the Monday workouts (if you start at 12% less you might finish at 18% less). These really warm you up nicely for the deads - although you still need to build to working set weight. I simply can't see over an hour and a half even on the heaviest day with time between sets. Warm ups go fast and you don't want to be doing high rep warmups, start with the bar and then a set of 5-6 with some light weight and then build with triples, doubles, and singles until you hit working weight. Take whatever time you need between sets. Record weeks you might need 5 minutes to get your last 2 sets in a 5x5 for the dead and squat.

 

[mcr]

Thanks bro, that makes sense.

I am in the middle of a training cycle right now. Once I'm done milking the gains from it, I'm going to switch up to your 5x5 method and follow it to the letter (no extra arm work either!). I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

 

[Madcow2]

(no extra arm work either!).

LOL - feast or famine.

One day everybody wants to figure out how use the 5x5 but only train a bodypart once per week (can't be done). The next day, no one even wants to chance adding some curls in. I will say that the overall desire to change the program seems to be inversely related to the number of people who have put in some time using it and reported their results.

 

[super_rice]

i'm glad to have been part of the first guinea pigs from elite. hopefully more people will follow suit.

 

[mcr]

LOL - feast or famine.

One day everybody wants to figure out how use the 5x5 but only train a bodypart once per week (can't be done). The next day, no one even wants to chance adding some curls in. I will say that the overall desire to change the program seems to be inversely related to the number of people who have put in some time using it and reported their results.

I just like to follow a program without changing anything around (unless the program mandates it like WSB). I have made too many mistakes in the past taking someone else's program and bastardizing it, only to find that I messed up the program by "tweaking" it LOL.