Liver Helper Myth Destroyed

[Silent Method]

Ulter, "36 were deemed suitable for detailed analysis" means they looked at 36 studies for their conclusions. We could argue their methods, motivations, criteria, point of view, etc, etc forever. The data and conclusions in the abstracts are limited. You restated my entire point for me...

No one can say that MT has NO benefit

This IS my point, pure and simple. Someone DID say this and I think it was premature and unsubstantiated.

No evidence has been presented to support the claim that milk thistle will not help the liver of an AAS user in any way.

 

[Fonz]

Ulter, "36 were deemed suitable for detailed analysis" means they looked at 36 studies for their conclusions. We could argue their methods, motivations, criteria, point of view, etc, etc forever. The data and conclusions in the abstracts are limited. You restated my entire point for me...
This IS my point, pure and simple. Someone DID say this and I think it was premature and unsubstantiated.

No evidence has been presented to support the claim that milk thistle will not help the liver of an AAS user in any way.

You're beating a dead horse and you know it.

You're talking semantics, while we're talking
about FACTS.

However, keep going. The more discussion we generate
the better. as that is what it takes for people to think
in new directions.

Fonz

 

[Silent Method]

You're beating a dead horse and you know it.

You're talking semantics, while we're talking
about FACTS.

I sure feel like I'm beating a dead horse. BTW, semantics is a prerequisite for discerning fact.

Please sumarize the facts that prove irrefutably that milk thistle has no worth whatsoever for an AAS user.

I agree, the more discussion the better. The "new direction" I hope people will begin to think in IS that of fact rather than assumption.

 

[MaGilicuti]

I'm not familiar with ALA, where would one purchase this?

 

[Ulter]

525 references were found in the databases, of which 84 papers were retained for closer examination and 36 were deemed suitable for detailed analysis

If you think I restated your point you aren't reading this thread very well.

Where do you get the idea that they only looked at 36 studies. They looked at all 525 of them, then requested 84, then went over the ones with merit leaving 36. Of the 36 NONE of them showed that Milk Thistle was of any use for liver protection.
You are using Milk Thistle to protect your liver and proclaim it's worth yet you've never been tested. You have no idea if it's helping you or not.

 

[Jeff_rys]

Silent Method, do you read others posts?

I sure feel like I'm beating a dead horse. BTW, semantics is a prerequisite for discerning fact.

Please sumarize the facts that prove irrefutably that milk thistle has no worth whatsoever for an AAS user.

I agree, the more discussion the better. The "new direction" I hope people will begin to think in IS that of fact rather than assumption.

Here is proof for you:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63625&highlight=Lreduced

What more do you want???

 

[HappyFunBall]

liver

Doesn't your liver regenerate on its own anyway? All this anecdotal stuff like: my values were 200 then i took XXX and they dropped to 95... This is not science.

Your liver will return to normal values if you are healthy. I think taking supplements might be good, if they work, but don't count on it. If they were so great doctors would be prescribing them to patients with high liver values, wouldn't they?

 

[Silent Method]

Oh boy...

If you think I restated your point you aren't reading this thread very well.

Ulter, you stated..."No one can say that MT has NO benefit." Bingo. My one and only point. In fact, Fonz restated my point too - "It <milk thistle> may be able to stem the tide somewhat." Bingo again. It may, it may not. To proclaim absolute worthlessness without factual basis is wrong.

Where do you get the idea that they only looked at 36 studies. They looked at all 525 of them, then requested 84, then went over the ones with merit leaving 36. Of the 36 NONE of them showed that Milk Thistle was of any use for liver protection.

Read your abstract. They whittled through 525 studies and settled on 36 for detailed analysis. This is why I previously raised the points, what were their criteria? What were their motivating factors? What objective points of view guided their research? We could argue these forever.

Look, their conclusions may cast a shadow of doubt over the degree of milk thistles effectivness. But they do not come anywhere near supporting the idea that milk thistle is worthless.

Oh and Jeff_rys, keep trying bud. That in no way establishes irrefutable factual evidence regarding the worth, or lack their of, of milk thistle.

 

[Jeff_rys]

you see it wrong Silent..

i only post my personal experience. Meaning, what you say or what any study claims, i don't buy it.
Personal experience is the only way to go. No hear say.

Milk Tistle did nothing (NOTHING) for me, but if it works for you, then go ahead. I only want the best protection and i can proof this with my blood results. So proof you your saying with your blood results.

As for you Happy:
Quote: "If they were so great doctors would be prescribing them to patients with high liver values, wouldn't they?"

But they do prescribe "L-reduced Glutathione" and "Lysomucil" (Acetylcysteinum) and they do work. Now of course Ala and Tyler's do also work but are not available in Belgium.

You should really do a search for liver protectors. Acetylcysteinum is used when your liver is REALLY upset. It can be injected DIRECTLY in the vein for fast result when detoxifying the liver is needed. You start with 150 mg/kg bodyweight, mix this with 250 ml Glucose 5%.
L-reduced Glutathione exists also in a injectable form. This must be shot I.M.

 

[Ulter]

silent,

If your point is that Milk Thistle is of some miniscule benefit to your liver. I concede it may be. So does a glass of milk.
If that's your point you have no business on this thread in the first place. Because "some benefit" is not what people on this board use it for and you know it. They use it thinking it is going to protect their liver from the 17aa drugs they use, which it will not do. Fonz and Jeff_rys and I are trying to let people know that Milk Thistle will not protect their liver and you're going on and on arguing that there is no proof it has no benefit.
Don't tell ME to read the abstract. You are the one who said they only looked at 36 studies and now you're back pedaling and saying they "whittled" through 525. So what are you saying they went through them without looking at them? Oh sorry, whittled through them without looking at them. Your contribution here is of no value.