List of supplements that supposedly lower your SHBG levels!!

[FreakMonster]

I've put a list together of supplements that can lower SHBG levels. If anyone else has any other recommendations post them up.

List:
-Proviron
-GH
-Avena Sativa Extract/Green oat that contains Avenacosidas-supposedly there is none of this product out on the market that shows that it works.
-Carao Extract-Theory only
-Utica Dioca aka Stinging Nettles
-Nettle Root-I think it's the same thing as above.
-Muira Puama

I've also heard that Clomid increases SHBG levels. If anyone knows for sure let me know.

 

[dzuljas]

bump for responses

 

[RdStrcklnd]

Utica Dioca aka Stinging Nettles
Nettle Root-I think it's the same thing as above.

You're right. Bump for more input from the experts though.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

There is no avena sativa on the market that is the same kind as what was studied.

The SHBG lowering was just a theory about carao, nobody really knows what carao does at this point.

 

[lawnsaver]

There is no avena sativa on the market that is the same kind as what was studied.

The SHBG lowering was just a theory about carao, nobody really knows what carao does at this point.

We will find out soon enough on the Avena Sativa. I am taking 1.5grams ED for 4 days now. My base line blood work was 198 total, 7 free. I will be getting blood work done in 3 weeks. We will see if anything has changed. I will post my results. I tell you one thing, my morning woods are just like it was when I was 18. Something is working.

 

[buffdoc]

What elevates SHBG?

Has Nelson or anyone discussed the mechanisms by which SHBG becomes elevated?
I have always thought that the single most potent stimulus was estradiol levels. I remember when I was first on HRT w/ test, my SHBG level started around 40-50 and as the test dose increased, my SHBG crept up to 125! I was on no aromatase inhibitors except Chrysin.
Could it be that carao has anti-e effects, or, like Danazol, inhibits SHBG production through a variety of mechanisms?

 

[Suspension]

Whats a good dosage for the nettles?

 

[Zyglamail]

Re: What elevates SHBG?

Has Nelson or anyone discussed the mechanisms by which SHBG becomes elevated?
I have always thought that the single most potent stimulus was estradiol levels. I remember when I was first on HRT w/ test, my SHBG level started around 40-50 and as the test dose increased, my SHBG crept up to 125! I was on no aromatase inhibitors except Chrysin.
Could it be that carao has anti-e effects, or, like Danazol, inhibits SHBG production through a variety of mechanisms?

Off the top of my head without having done any specific research on the subject I would have to say that an increase is SHBG relational to increased androgen levels is simply one of the many ways our bodies try and remain homeostasis.

On a side note, the SHBG reduction provided by GH is likely one of the main muscle building aspects of that compund. GH, from everything I have read, leaves test levels unaltered however the simple reduction of SHBG can alter the test/SHBG ratio into an anabolic advantage.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Re: What elevates SHBG?

Could it be that carao has anti-e effects, or, like Danazol, inhibits SHBG production through a variety of mechanisms?

The posts on carao affecting SHBG were speculative only. There is absolutely no evidence yet that it does.

We don't yet know a mechanism of action as to how carao works. We don't even know how it affects RBC.

Hopefully more will be known once some people get key blood panels.

 

[Fonz]

Re: Re: What elevates SHBG?

Off the top of my head without having done any specific research on the subject I would have to say that an increase is SHBG relational to increased androgen levels is simply one of the many ways our bodies try and remain homeostasis.

On a side note, the SHBG reduction provided by GH is likely one of the main muscle building aspects of that compund. GH, from everything I have read, leaves test levels unaltered however the simple reduction of SHBG can alter the test/SHBG ratio into an anabolic advantage.

The only PROVEN drug in lowering SHBG is Mesterolone i.e. Proviron.

The rest are second-rate.

Fonz

 

[SofaGeorge]

Re: Re: Re: What elevates SHBG?

The only PROVEN drug in lowering SHBG is Mesterolone i.e. Proviron.

The rest are second-rate.

Fonz

How does winstrol compare?

 

[V-SHAPE 2]

If proviron is so beneficial, why dont we use it with every cycle?

 

[MikeyG]

I agree V-shape.

I've decided to throw in 25mg Proviron ED......hopefully it's just enough to lower SHBG levels.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

We will find out soon enough on the Avena Sativa. I am taking 1.5grams ED for 4 days now. My base line blood work was 198 total, 7 free. I will be getting blood work done in 3 weeks. We will see if anything has changed. I will post my results. I tell you one thing, my morning woods are just like it was when I was 18. Something is working.

i'm using 1.7 grams of the GNC version of avena sativa right now....along with 25mg of proviron with the arimidex (.5 ED) first 5 weeks of cycle...then 50mg proviron last 8 weeks of cycle, as well as post cycle. getting on carao at about week 5 or 6 of 13 weeks also. i'll pick up some nettle at work tommorow. what is the dosage of that? now we are sweating goddamn SHBG....what's next?

 

[Zyglamail]

Re: Re: Re: What elevates SHBG?

The only PROVEN drug in lowering SHBG is Mesterolone i.e. Proviron.

The rest are second-rate.

Fonz

Ok let me rephrase. GH increases the Test/SHBG ratio in favor of free test. Where is the data showing the effects proviron has on SHBG?

 

[buffdoc]

I still believe that estrogen levels have the strongest impact on SHBG levels. When testosterone levels go up, estradiol follows, unless aromatase is adequately inhibited. This leads to elevated SHBG, which can then bind testost. Free testosterone is only a very small fraction of the total testost, the majority of which is bound to serum albumin, and secondarily to SHBG. So a relatively small increase in SHBG, triggered by estrogen, can markedly decrease the free, active test levels, with significant clinical effect.
Danazol is proven, although I wouldn't want to take it. It suppresses the whole axis, but if taken sparingly, will knock down the SHBG only.
Is not Proviron anti-e in action? If so, perhaps that is at least one of its purported actions on SHBG.
No more, I promise.

 

[lawnsaver]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What elevates SHBG?

Ok let me rephrase. GH increases the Test/SHBG ratio in favor of free test. Where is the data showing the effects proviron has on SHBG?

I dont think proviron lowers SHBG's it just has a great binding affinity to it, which results in more free test to circulate amd attach to the A/R's

Fonz, check out my post on proviron!!

 

[Silent Method]

Insulin and IGF-I both play big parts in either blunting the effects of, or blocking SHBG in normal human physiology.

 

[HighIntensity]

We will find out soon enough on the Avena Sativa. I am taking 1.5grams ED for 4 days now. My base line blood work was 198 total, 7 free. I will be getting blood work done in 3 weeks. We will see if anything has changed. I will post my results. I tell you one thing, my morning woods are just like it was when I was 18. Something is working.

what brand are you taking?

 

[icelandic]

I believe clomid actually raises SHBG levels. That is why using clomid as a testoterone booster is largely ineffective for non-endurance athletes.

 

[lawnsaver]

what brand are you taking?

www.Beyond-a-century.com

$5.95 per 50 grams!!

 

[HighIntensity]

www.Beyond-a-century.com

$5.95 per 50 grams!!

same as I got bro, napped 7 bottles ...going to use that with nettle and Muira Puama

hey can't hurt for under 100 bucks

 

[Nelson Montana]

Lots of good points. Forgive me if I don't credit everyone for each statement.

I'm with Lawnsaver on the BAC Avena Sative. I tried "Action LAbs" brand and it did nothing. Used the BAC and I've got a pup tent going every morning ( and I'm 49), so it obviously isn't an inert substance. (Now if I can ony get the wife to blow revelry).

Morning wood is the best "non scientific" gauge of higher free T. I'd be curious to see some tests. Either way, I'm going to keep using it.

Didn't like the Nettles (Utica Diorca) because it lowers DHT which kills the libido highening effect.

I found Muama Puama to be effecive as well but evidence is scant, although the locals swear by it. Anecdotally increases ejaculate volume.

Here's one more: Catuaba. Some studies show it creases sperm count. Good for all you Deca users.

Proviron doesn't directly block estrogen.It competes with the aromatase enzyme.

Estrogen is a factor in SHBG, but not the sole factor. You can have low e-and high SHBG and vice versa.

Winstrol supposedly lowers SHBG, depending on who you want to believe, but I'd say it's speculative. Winny can't convert to estrogen which suggests it increases DHT which can't convert to estrogen yet has a high affinty for androgen receptor sites. So in theory, it should lower SHBG -- but the damn LDL elevation. No such problem with Proviron.

SHBG level is a genetic trait which increase with age. Why? Who the fuck knows? Everything gets less effecient with age. It could be the body wasn't meant to reproduce after the age of 30 or so. But even young men can have too much SHBG. It's like testosterone. Why does one guy have 400 and another guy has 900? And realize, all this is just a piece of the puzzle. The process of anabolism is more than ones testosterone levels. That's why someoe can take enough cyp so that they have 100X's the testosterone of a natural athlete, yet the natural athlete can put on more muscle. There's so much we don't know.

And yes. Clomid has been shown to increase SHBG. It's also been shown to lower it. So go figure. I believe the former. Clomid is a libido killer in about half of the people who use it. Proviron is a much better choice for post short cycle and HCG is a much better choice post long cycle. Clomid blows.

 

[HighIntensity]

Nelson your right about nettle I use to use it to keep my hair.

What about Maca? I love this herb.

 

[lawnsaver]

"Clomid blows" wow, thats a strong statement!! Why is HCG a better choice than clomid? HCG, to my knowledge doesnt restart one's HPTA. Correct me if I'm wrong. It only signals the LC to produce more LH. Once the "signal" fades when you stop, so does the production of test from your testicles. And what about the high conversion rate of test to estrogen that HCG produces? Wouldnt that hinder recovery?

Nelson please school me!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Whether you use Clomid or HCG there comes a time when your own HPTA has to take over. HCG only cushions the blow. Clomid does so in some people, not in others, and for many, it makes the situation worse, they just don't know it. The estrogen from HCG can be avoided by taking smaller interspersed dosages -- and using --what else? -- Proviron.

Yeah, Maca's good too, although I don't think it affects testosterone. Oddly enough, it's been shown to improve thyroid function. (!)

 

[plornive]

Whether you use Clomid or HCG there comes a time when your own HPTA has to take over. HCG only cushions the blow. Clomid does so in some people, not in others, and for many, it makes the situation worse, they just don't know it. The estrogen from HCG can be avoided by taking smaller interspersed dosages -- and using --what else? -- Proviron.

Yeah, Maca's good too, although I don't think it affects testosterone. Oddly enough, it's been shown to improve thyroid function. (!)

Hey Nelson, does Nolvadex do anything to SHBG? If I take 20mg Nolvadex while using dbol for a while to prevent gyno, will I also be increasing SHBG?

 

[Punschkrapfen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What elevates SHBG?

Where is the data showing the effects proviron has on SHBG?

the only study i know of compares the binding affinity of various steroids to SHBG in rats and there, mesterolone (Proviron) did bind much stronger than all other compounds, including DHT, testosterone and nandrolone to SHBG, but less strongly to the AR compared to the other androgens:

Endocrinology 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6

Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin.

Saartok T, Dahlberg E, Gustafsson JA.

It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as competitors for the binding of [3H]methyltrienolone (MT; 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-4,9,11-estratrien-3-one) to the AR in rat and rabbit skeletal muscle and rat prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone) bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) [relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [ RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone ( NorT ; nandrolone) greater than methenolone (17 beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5 alpha-androst-1-en-3-one) greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05): stanozolol (17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha- androstano [3,2-c]pyrazol-17 beta-ol), methanedienone (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-1,4-androstadien-3-one), and fluoxymesterolone (9 alpha-fluoro-11 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-T). Other compounds had RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone (17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one) and ethylestrenol (17 alpha-ethyl-4- estren -17 beta-ol). The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction of its 3-keto function to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR [5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and its 3 beta-isomer (3 alpha- and 3 beta-adiol, respectively)]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha-adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA in rat muscle to that in the prostate (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most cases

 

[arigold]

Winstrol lowers the SHBG.........

To me is the better choice.......,but conterfeit are a problem......

 

[Silent Method]

SHBG level is a genetic trait which increase with age. Why? Who the fuck knows?

Sex differences in the control of sex-hormone-binding globulin in the elderly: role of insulin-like growth factor-I and insulin.

Lecomte P, Lecureuil N, Lecureuil M, Lemonnier Y, Mariotte N, Valat C, Garrigue MA
Eur J Endocrinol 1998 Aug 139:178-83

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: Serum levels of sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) have been reported in the literature to increase with age in both sexes. We have investigated the variations in levels of androgens, insulin and IGF-I with age and have evaluated their putative roles to obtain a better understanding of the increase in SHBG. DESIGN: Cross-sectional pilot study of blood samples in healthy elderly subjects aged 50 to 90 years. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Forty-four postmenopausal women and 40 men were classified into three age groups. Subjects who were obese, undernourished or smokers and postmenopausal women receiving hormone replacement therapy were excluded from the study. Body mass index and waist/hip ratio were evaluated in each subject. Fasting levels of blood glucose, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol, SHBG, testosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) and IGF-I were measured. Free testosterone and glucose/insulin ratio were calculated. RESULTS: The results are based on variance analysis of the mean of each parameter in the three age groups. Multiple regression analysis was performed to define the role of age, insulin and IGF-I in the increase in SHBG. The increase in SHBG with age in older men was significant but that in postmenopausal women was not. Decreasing DHEAS with age was confirmed. No significant variations in glucose and insulin were observed with age in our selected population. A positive correlation was observed between insulin and triglycerides in elderly men and women. IGF-I decreased significantly with age in both sexes. Insulin was the main factor explaining SHBG increase with age in women. In men, both age and IGF-I contributed to the SHBG increase. CONCLUSIONS: The factors regulating the increase in SHBG with age appear to be different in the two sexes. Insulin plays a major role in women, whereas a decrease in IGF-I is the predominant regulating factor in men. These results should be thought of as a working hypothesis rather than a reflection of physiology.

Of course this does not explain everything related to age and sHBG, but once again we see that insulin and IGF-I are big peices of the SHBG level puzzle.

 

[FreakMonster]

Hey Nelson, does Nolvadex do anything to SHBG? If I take 20mg Nolvadex while using dbol for a while to prevent gyno, will I also be increasing SHBG?

According to this study it says that Nolvadex does increase SHBG:

Trait anxiety and tamoxifen effects on bone mineral density and sex hormone- binding globulin.

Cameron LD, Leventhal H, Love RR, Patrick-Miller LJ.

Department of Psychology, Faculty of Science, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Tamoxifen therapy preserves BMD of the lumbar spine and increases levels of SHBG. We assessed whether trait anxiety, a factor linked with a reactive endocrine system, is associated with differential changes in BMD and SHBG levels in response to tamoxifen therapy. METHODS: Postmenopausal women (N= 140) with axillary-node-negative breast cancer participated in a 2-year randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of tamoxifen (10 mg twice a day). Levels of BMD and SHBG were assessed at baseline and at 3, 6, 12, 18, and 24 months. RESULTS: Trait anxiety predicted tamoxifen-induced changes in lumbar spine BMD; high levels of trait anxiety were associated with significantly greater lumbar spine BMD at 3, 12, and 24 months (p values <.05) for women on tamoxifen therapy. High anxiety also was associated with lower levels of SHBG for women using tamoxifen at 3, 12, 18, and 24 months (p values <.05). CONCLUSIONS: Trait anxiety is associated with greater preservation of lumbar spine BMD in response to tamoxifen and with a suppression of tamoxifen-induced increases in SHBG. Trait anxiety and other affective traits may serve as indicators of underlying physiological processes that moderate the effects of estrogen receptor modulators (such as tamoxifen) in clinical trials. Such data may help to elucidate the physiological mechanisms responsible for some of the variation in individual responses to treatment.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

According to this study it says that Nolvadex does increase SHBG:

Trait anxiety and tamoxifen effects on bone mineral density and sex hormone- binding globulin.

Cameron LD, Leventhal H, Love RR, Patrick-Miller LJ.

Department of Psychology, Faculty of Science, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Tamoxifen therapy preserves BMD of the lumbar spine and increases levels of SHBG. We assessed whether trait anxiety, a factor linked with a reactive endocrine system, is associated with differential changes in BMD and SHBG levels in response to tamoxifen therapy. METHODS: Postmenopausal women (N= 140) with axillary-node-negative breast cancer participated in a 2-year randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of tamoxifen (10 mg twice a day). Levels of BMD and SHBG were assessed at baseline and at 3, 6, 12, 18, and 24 months. RESULTS: Trait anxiety predicted tamoxifen-induced changes in lumbar spine BMD; high levels of trait anxiety were associated with significantly greater lumbar spine BMD at 3, 12, and 24 months (p values <.05) for women on tamoxifen therapy. High anxiety also was associated with lower levels of SHBG for women using tamoxifen at 3, 12, 18, and 24 months (p values <.05). CONCLUSIONS: Trait anxiety is associated with greater preservation of lumbar spine BMD in response to tamoxifen and with a suppression of tamoxifen-induced increases in SHBG. Trait anxiety and other affective traits may serve as indicators of underlying physiological processes that moderate the effects of estrogen receptor modulators (such as tamoxifen) in clinical trials. Such data may help to elucidate the physiological mechanisms responsible for some of the variation in individual responses to treatment.

oh fuck, i'm taking that too for my titties. maybe i'll crush it up with the andractim gel like clobro does...and get localized effect only for the most part on the nipples. was hoping to take it all the cycle through....but i'll stop it after dbol if it is a bad guy.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Silient: Good post. But even with that evidence it becomes a "chicken and the egg" scenario. If lower IGF-1 is what raises SHBG as we age...why does our IGF-! get lower?

Bottom Line: We get older. It does give further validy for the need for resistance exercise and the dismissal of aerobic exercise since resistance increases GH release and aerobics can lower IGF-!.

Anxiety raises SHBG. Does this mean that benzos lower it? Hmmmm.

plornive: Yes, Nolvadex, which is similar to Clomid , will raise SHBG. (Could be due to supposed lowered IGF as a matter of fact) Studies show this to be true but so does a more accurate barometer -- my dick. Nolva is another libido killer which decreases semenal volume. Nolvadex blows as bad as CLomid. The option is pretty simple. Just use less of what causes the problems that Nolva fixes.

 

[FreakMonster]

If proviron is so beneficial, why dont we use it with every cycle?

Probably because of the price.

 

[FreakMonster]

Didn't like the Nettles (Utica Diorca) because it lowers DHT which kills the libido highening effect.

But if your taking Proviron with Nettles wouldn't DHT levels stay the same?

It is also well known that taking Proviron can make you lose hair. Taking Nettle should help with that.

 

[FreakMonster]

same as I got bro, napped 7 bottles ...going to use that with nettle and Muira Puama

hey can't hurt for under 100 bucks

Do you know how many bottles of Muira Puama and Nettle I should get to last me for 8 weeks?

 

[FreakMonster]

Anyone heard of Paul Cribb? He states that benefiting from lower SHBG levels is a complete crock of shit. Below is the link:
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=763

 

[FreakMonster]

Here are 2 studies showing the binding affinity of Stinging nettle to SHBG



Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).

Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.

Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

Polar extracts of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica L.) roots contain the ligans (+)-neoolivil, (-)-secoisolariciresinol, dehydrodiconiferyl alcohol, isolariciresinol, pinoresinol, and 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. These compounds were either isolated from Urtica roots, or obtained semisynthetically. Their affinity to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was tested in an in vitro assay. In addition, the main intestinal transformation products of plant lignans in humans, enterodiol and enterolactone, together with enterofuran were checked for their activity. All lignans except (-)-pinoresinol developed a binding affinity to SHBG in the in vitro assay. The affinity of (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high. These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).


The effect of extracts of the roots of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica) on the interaction of SHBG with its receptor on human prostatic membranes.

Hryb DJ, Khan MS, Romas NA, Rosner W.

Department of Medicine, St. Luke's/Roosevelt Hospital Center, New York, N.Y. 10019.

Extracts from the roots of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica) are used in the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia. The mechanisms underlying this treatment have not been elucidated. We set out to determine whether specific extracts from U. dioica had the ability to modulate the binding of sex hormone-binding globulin to its receptor on human prostatic membranes. Four substances contained in U. dioica were examined: an aqueous extract; an alcoholic extract; U. dioica agglutinin, and stigmasta-4-en-3-one. Of these, only the aqueous extract was active. It inhibited the binding of 125I-SHBG to its receptor. The inhibition was dose related, starting at about 0.6 mg/ml and completely inhibited binding at 10 mg/ml.

PMID: 7700987 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Judo Tom]

plornive: Yes, Nolvadex, which is similar to Clomid , will raise SHBG. (Could be due to supposed lowered IGF as a matter of fact) Studies show this to be true but so does a more accurate barometer -- my dick. Nolva is another libido killer which decreases semenal volume. Nolvadex blows as bad as CLomid. The option is pretty simple. Just use less of what causes the problems that Nolva fixes.

hey nelson.. i really enjoy some of the points you have brought up.. especially when they go against some of the things that people believe to be TRUTHS...

my question is if nolva/clomid blows.. what would you recommend post cycle.. just hcg hcg/ with proviron? or another anti e?

thanks

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Anxiety raises SHBG. Does this mean that benzos lower it? Hmmmm.

i take two 10mg valiums a day....GH release and SHBG lowering. wonderful if true! BTW, i take every drug and supplement known to man if no one noticed yet.

 

[SofaGeorge]

i take two 10mg valiums a day....GH release and SHBG lowering. wonderful if true! BTW, i take every drug and supplement known to man if no one noticed yet.

We respect that. You aren't a junkie. You're a pioneer.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

We respect that. You aren't a junkie. You're a pioneer.

oddly enough thats how i look at it. very sick society here indeed. at least i don't drink alchohol or smoke (weed or cigs) or do X or any shit like that. just everything else.

 

[FreakMonster]

 

[SofaGeorge]

oddly enough thats how i look at it. very sick society here indeed. at least i don't drink alchohol or smoke (weed or cigs) or do X or any shit like that. just everything else.

Naw... before I retired I worked in the supp industry. I launched a ton of innovative substances to the health market. (Mostly because I worked with the very few companies that would actually take a chance on something new.) My first step in "finding" a new substance was always self experimentation. You've got to try it, see what it does, try to figure out how much to take, etc...

I launched melatonin, spent three years playing with it before anyone knew what it was. I can still remember when we didn't have a clue how much to take... and I was getting it from the lag in 100mg capsules. (Normal dose today is 3mg.) We lived up in the mountains, me my girlfriend and another girl. At night we'd pop between 300-1000mg... then get the ricochet effect - four hours later we were wide awake at 2:00am and could not get back to sleep... so we'd get up at night and go on moonlight hikes with the dogs.

I am probably the only person in the world who associates melatonin with moonlight hikes.

After we played with it for a while, and got the dose down, we even got to sleep through the night.

The experimentation phase with an effective supplement is the most fun part of the whole thing.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Naw... before I retired I worked in the supp industry. I launched a ton of innovative substances to the health market. (Mostly because I worked with the very few companies that would actually take a chance on something new.) My first step in "finding" a new substance was always self experimentation. You've got to try it, see what it does, try to figure out how much to take, etc...

I launched melatonin, spent three years playing with it before anyone knew what it was. I can still remember when we didn't have a clue how much to take... and I was getting it from the lag in 100mg capsules. (Normal dose today is 3mg.) We lived up in the mountains, me my girlfriend and another girl. At night we'd pop between 300-1000mg... then get the ricochet effect - four hours later we were wide awake at 2:00am and could not get back to sleep... so we'd get up at night and go on moonlight hikes with the dogs.

I am probably the only person in the world who associates melatonin with moonlight hikes.

After we played with it for a while, and got the dose down, we even got to sleep through the night.

The experimentation phase with an effective supplement is the most fun part of the whole thing.

lol. yeah, i worked for GNC for 10 years now....and was into supps for like 5-6 years previous. my friends used to call me "duchaine" because i was the guinea pig for everything and anything new that came out. i'd take it. BTW: melatonin gives me the wide awake effect at any dose. but kava kava and xanax....nighty night!

 

[Jguns]

The only PROVEN drug in lowering SHBG is Mesterolone i.e. Proviron.

You are forgetting about DHT, and Winstrol. To be clear, Proviron works to bind to shbg, Stanozolol reduces shbg.

Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.

Sinnecker G, Kohler S.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG. The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

However, just because SHBG is lowered does NOT mean an increase in free testosterone.

This particular study noted a reduction in total testosterone due to mesterolone administration, but no change in free testosterone levels.

The authors concluded that:

"The reduction in total plasma testosterone and the unchanged free testosterone is probably due to reduced testosterone binding to SHBG."

So even though mesterolone competes with test for SHBG binding, the diplaced test is cleared from the system faster, resulting in no net change of free test, since as the authors point out:

"the MCR [metabolic clearance rate] is inversely related to the degree of protein binding."

(1) Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1974 Oct;77(2):380-6

The effect of mesterolone administration to normal men on the pituitary-testicular function.

Aakvaag A, Stromme SB.

 

[jboldman]

My reading of the studies suggests that aerobic conditioning does indeed lead to an increase in gh release and in older individuals igf-1 levels and aerobic capacity are positively correlated. Since igf-1 downregulates the synthesis the shbg, it sounds to me like aerobic conditioning is exactly what we need as we get older to promote good health, lower levels of shbg and increased release of growth hormone. As far as I can determine , the only time that igf-1 is diminished by aerobic conditioning is when it is combined with caloric restriction. I can post the studies if anyone is interested.

jb

Silient: Good post. But even with that evidence it becomes a "chicken and the egg" scenario. If lower IGF-1 is what raises SHBG as we age...why does our IGF-! get lower?

Bottom Line: We get older. It does give further validy for the need for resistance exercise and the dismissal of aerobic exercise since resistance increases GH release and aerobics can lower IGF-!.

Anxiety raises SHBG. Does this mean that benzos lower it? Hmmmm.

plornive: Yes, Nolvadex, which is similar to Clomid , will raise SHBG. (Could be due to supposed lowered IGF as a matter of fact) Studies show this to be true but so does a more accurate barometer -- my dick. Nolva is another libido killer which decreases semenal volume. Nolvadex blows as bad as CLomid. The option is pretty simple. Just use less of what causes the problems that Nolva fixes.

 

[geoboy]

Nelson your right about nettle I use to use it to keep my hair.

What about Maca? I love this herb.

does the nettles use (what dose & brand btw?) impair libido??