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Lift big to get big? What do YOU think??

Do you have to lift heavy to get big?

  • Total voters
    318
Outtlaw

Outtlaw

New member
Ok, I already know the answer and what I think. I just want to poll the bros here just for the sake of discussion. I hear people say all the time, "you dont have to lift heavy to build muscle". And then there's the people that say "if you wanna get big, you gotta lift big". So what do you guys think? Who's right here? Let's put it to poll...
 
answer is obvious..as I am sure you know. Look at all of the skinny guys doing team bench, peck deck, etc. Then look at the big guys pulling HEAVY deads, squats, etc. Only way to get big is to lift big. It is hard but it works.
 
I would say a combination of both:

Heavy weight / Low rep for basic movements
Medium weights / higher rep for secondary movements to get 'pumped'

eat clean, eat often

get sufficient rest
 
I believe you have to lift BIG w/PROPER FORM....i can say for myself and personal experience that going heavy has put on muscle for me...that light weight shit doesnt cut it at all...to get big you must lift big..but with proper form ...just cause you have 500lbs on the squat rack and barley bending your knees doesnt mean your gaing mass...or cause your throwing up 185lbs on the bicep curl but you look like you have down syndrome while doing it doesnt mean you'll gain an inch....
 
Powerlifters are the biggest people on the planet. Arnold, Franco, all started as powerlifters, now Coleman lifts heavy with the high rep. shit, cause he is taking a suitcase full or roids.
 
swordfish151 said:
I believe you have to lift BIG w/PROPER FORM....i can say for myself and personal experience that going heavy has put on muscle for me...that light weight shit doesnt cut it at all...to get big you must lift big..but with proper form ...just cause you have 500lbs on the squat rack and barley bending your knees doesnt mean your gaing mass...or cause your throwing up 185lbs on the bicep curl but you look like you have down syndrome while doing it doesnt mean you'll gain an inch....
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I agree. You need to be able to get a full range of motion and contraction on your base reps. At the end of a workout on a muscle part though i like to do some heavy partials to finish off the muscle, form not important on these. Fact is muscle needs to be stressed to grow and real light weight tones but does not build in my opinion.
 
Heavy, all the way. One things that sucks is that the mass muscle seems to disiapate faster. I fucked up my hand last year and I had to have surgery, I obviously wasn't able to workout. I couldn't workout for 2 months. That muscle left so quickly even though I kept taking protein, eating, etc.

Why is that?
 
I always go heavy on most freeweight movements with the rep range between 4-6 reps. Especially on squats, deads, and bench. then I go for 8-12 reps on most sculpting exercises like flyes, cables.
 
I firmly believe that every day in the gym is a heavy day ....

but I laugh at the guys that come in throw a ton of weight on the bar grunt and grown real loud ( to make sure everybody is watching them lift this impressive amount) and thats it 1 maybe 2 reps then they stand around the rest of the time talking… what a joke
 
swordfish151 said:
BULKING = GO HEAVY
CUTTING = GO HEAVY

For everything else....go buy you one of those purdy bow-flexes :rainbow:
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Like someone else said on here a Bowflex is only good for hanging your clothes on! The commercials are so funny like that person got that body from a Bowflex!
 
jafo said:
I firmly believe that every day in the gym is a heavy day ....

but I laugh at the guys that come in throw a ton of weight on the bar grunt and grown real loud ( to make sure everybody is watching them lift this impressive amount) and thats it 1 maybe 2 reps then they stand around the rest of the time talking… what a joke
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I laugh at the guys who do all that, yet only do a quarter rep. I swear I've seen guys only move the bar 3 inches.
 
thelion2005 said:
You do not have to lift heavy to get big. You have to stimulate, teardown and rebuild.

Chest for example ... You can build a 50 inch chest with three pec exercises, one rib cage and three back exercises, and never have to go over 175 bb or 45 db.
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Says YOUR genetics my friend.
 
swordfish151 said:
Says YOUR genetics my friend.
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I agree, lift heavy 6-8 reps I`m, 6`00 250lbs 17-23% bf by design because of my jobs. This is whithout cycling but i am studying and researching for my
first cycle.
 
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Lift heavy? You will not get much hypertrophy near your 1RM. If lifting heavy got you bigger, then how could powerlifters increase their bench or dead between comps without changing weight classes? The fact is if you lift heavy doubles or triples like I do to cycle up for push-pulls you will not gain much size, say arm size. Powerlifters are not that big at all in proportion to their 1 rep max lifts. Hypertrophy is best achieved at 60-85% of your maximum with a lot more volume. I'm actually doing a hypertrophy cycle after months of westside. My bodyweight and measurements are changing weekly now, but I did not budge my weight at all while doing westside despite increasing my bench 22%. Most of the adaptations to maximum effort training are fiber transitions (ST - FT), neurological adaptations and form improvements.

So lifting very heavy, near your max will not make you big. It will make you strong. Working out 60-85% of your maxes at a high volume is the best way to increase muscle size.

That being said, I believe that going near 80% gives a thicker physique than the guys who coast around 60%. Franco, Lou, Ronnie, Dorian, etc prove this.

Let's take a bodybuilder who's one-rep max squat is 425lbs. This is a good beginner/low-intermediate squat number. That bodybuilder will get a lot more size doing light sets of 75% of his one-rep max (which means 4 sets of 10 at 315lbs (75%)) than he will going heavy at 95% (doing 2 sets of 2 at 405lbs). There just isn't enough volume for good growth stimulus going heavy (95%) as there is when going light (75%).

Anyone who wants to read about all the latest training theories and periodizations along these lines should check out Tudor Bompa's (the Romanian Olympic weight training coach and trainer of 11 medalists) book Serious Strength Training, the second edition. It has EMG studies of exercises, explanation of hypertrophy, mixed, and max effort/powerlifting phases to blend to your satisfaction and goals. Very interesting read, even if you ultimately discard it for yourself.
 
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Outtlaw said:
I laugh at the guys who do all that, yet only do a quarter rep. I swear I've seen guys only move the bar 3 inches.
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LMAO at this ...and it never fails they are the ones that want to try and correct your/someone’s form and act as if they know it all
 
Heavy is different for everyone. To grow well, you need to lift heavy for YOU. Shit a heavy curl for a pro could be a heavy bench for some little dude with no lifting history. But in the end there is no way to get big working in the 20 rep range.
 
I try to keep most of my lifts at maximum 12 and the least 5. But then I am a newbie and still learning.
 
majutsu said:
Lift heavy? You will not get much hypertrophy near your 1RM. If lifting heavy got you bigger, then how could powerlifters increase their bench or dead between comps without changing weight classes? The fact is if you lift heavy doubles or triples like I do to cycle up for push-pulls you will not gain much size, say arm size. Powerlifters are not that big at all in proportion to their 1 rep max lifts. Hypertrophy is best achieved at 60-85% of your maximum with a lot more volume. I'm actually doing a hypertrophy cycle after months of westside. My bodyweight and measurements are changing weekly now, but I did not budge my weight at all while doing westside despite increasing my bench 22%. Most of the adaptations to maximum effort training are fiber transitions (ST - FT), neurological adaptations and form improvements.

So lifting very heavy, near your max will not make you big. It will make you strong. Working out 60-85% of your maxes at a high volume is the best way to increase muscle size.

That being said, I believe that going near 80% gives a thicker physique than the guys who coast around 60%. Franco, Lou, Ronnie, Dorian, etc prove this.

Let's take a bodybuilder who's one-rep max squat is 425lbs. This is a good beginner/low-intermediate squat number. That bodybuilder will get a lot more size doing light sets of 75% of his one-rep max (which means 4 sets of 10 at 315lbs (75%)) than he will going heavy at 95% (doing 2 sets of 2 at 405lbs). There just isn't enough volume for good growth stimulus going heavy (95%) as there is when going light (75%).

Anyone who wants to read about all the latest training theories and periodizations along these lines should check out Tudor Bompa's (the Romanian Olympic weight training coach and trainer of 11 medalists) book Serious Strength Training, the second edition. It has EMG studies of exercises, explanation of hypertrophy, mixed, and max effort/powerlifting phases to blend to your satisfaction and goals. Very interesting read, even if you ultimately discard it for yourself.
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This i definetely agree on.

RADAR
 
jafo said:
LMAO at this ...and it never fails they are the ones that want to try and correct your/someone’s form and act as if they know it all
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totally, that three inches is one SET for them...
 
I think one needs to lift heavy, but does need the lighter, more rep sets.
I'll get a good warm up in, do my heavy lifting for whatever muscle, then finnish off with lighter sets with more reps.

I like the strength aspect of it all though, so sometime I myself skip the lighter work, but for overall size, I believe the higher rep is needed.

Majutsu, good post. I'll have to check out that link

Whiskey
 
heavy is relative, while doing nothign but singles can and will make you bigger if done correctly I believe in 4-6 reps on the compound stuff with a full ROM and leave the bouncing & cheating for the frat boys..

to quote dante

I havent seen a guy who can squat 500 for 20 reps, bench press 500 for 15 and deadlift 500 for 15 who was small yet ---but I have seen alot and i mean alot of people in the gym and on these forums that are a buck 65 or two and change--shouting that you dont have to lift heavy to get big.
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Let's take a bodybuilder who's one-rep max squat is 425lbs. This is a good beginner/low-intermediate squat number.
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heh, I agree its a good intermediate trainee number but sadly I suspect you that you could count the number of 'good bros' who could squat that with both hands..
 
majutsu said:
Lift heavy? You will not get much hypertrophy near your 1RM. If lifting heavy got you bigger, then how could powerlifters increase their bench or dead between comps without changing weight classes? The fact is if you lift heavy doubles or triples like I do to cycle up for push-pulls you will not gain much size, say arm size. Powerlifters are not that big at all in proportion to their 1 rep max lifts. Hypertrophy is best achieved at 60-85% of your maximum with a lot more volume. I'm actually doing a hypertrophy cycle after months of westside. My bodyweight and measurements are changing weekly now, but I did not budge my weight at all while doing westside despite increasing my bench 22%. Most of the adaptations to maximum effort training are fiber transitions (ST - FT), neurological adaptations and form improvements.

So lifting very heavy, near your max will not make you big. It will make you strong. Working out 60-85% of your maxes at a high volume is the best way to increase muscle size.

That being said, I believe that going near 80% gives a thicker physique than the guys who coast around 60%. Franco, Lou, Ronnie, Dorian, etc prove this.

Let's take a bodybuilder who's one-rep max squat is 425lbs. This is a good beginner/low-intermediate squat number. That bodybuilder will get a lot more size doing light sets of 75% of his one-rep max (which means 4 sets of 10 at 315lbs (75%)) than he will going heavy at 95% (doing 2 sets of 2 at 405lbs). There just isn't enough volume for good growth stimulus going heavy (95%) as there is when going light (75%).

Anyone who wants to read about all the latest training theories and periodizations along these lines should check out Tudor Bompa's (the Romanian Olympic weight training coach and trainer of 11 medalists) book Serious Strength Training, the second edition. It has EMG studies of exercises, explanation of hypertrophy, mixed, and max effort/powerlifting phases to blend to your satisfaction and goals. Very interesting read, even if you ultimately discard it for yourself.
Click to expand...


Can't say that I'm an expert on muscle-building theory, but this makes the most sense to me...and it seems to work best for me!
 
hotnjmuscle said:
Can't say that I'm an expert on muscle-building theory, but this makes the most sense to me...and it seems to work best for me!
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I have to agree..I usually don't work much above the 65%-75% range...usually try to make sure I can do 3 sets of 10 reps at the weight I'm working...I seem to increase size...but do not have alot of strength gains...but I'm bumping 40 now...and the real heavy stuff causes alot of joint pain...wrists,sholders,elbows & knees.....I have a 50" chest 18.5 bicepts and at 225 lbs and can only bench in the 280 range...but for the last five years or so I've trained lighter,better form & higher reps...to try and preserve my joints.....I wonder what the 40+ guys shoulders and wrists feel like that are working 300 plus on the bench...If your out there..please chime in..
 
there is definately some kind of correlation to mucle size and strength and there is a place for singles like 95% of ur 1 rm for 5 sets of singles on occasion one program that works wonders in size and strenght is 10 sets of three with 80%of 1rm and increase load 5% every week the difference in 10 sets of three vs 3 stes of ten is u can use aheavier load which equalls hypertropy PERIOD
 
Depends on the individual - I repsond very well to HST, which is all about gaining size - but I also rotate to 5x5's and basic pyramid work. I also advocate one heavy day her week, but not 1 rep max stuff.

it all depends on the individual and how that person reacts to the stimulus. I know if I went heavy every day, my wrists, shoulders and back would put me on the bench real quick.


Bluesman
 
Ive said this many times before..I lift as heavy as i can to get the maxium weight i can lift till i cant go up anymore.(this is without forceing myself on the last rep to failure) granted i keeps reps at 5 or less. When i reach that point then i drop 30% of the weight down and do reps with that weight till i cant go anymore...I think this gives you the best of both worlds,as far as maxuim strenght and over all size..People seem to compare apples to oranges on what lifting heavy is...Its not one rep lifting its as much weight as the person can get at 2 to 3 reps,,,If i lift 250 at 3 reps a set and do say 6 sets.The other guy is doing lite weight at say 180 at sets of 8 reps say 10 sets whos going to grow faster? Simple muscles are forced to adapt to the load,they have to grow to support the weight you lift...Once you reach a point that its to easy to lift that weight the body would stop growing because it has adapted to the weight load...Just like anything else in life..
If this isnt the case we could all just do pushups and keep geting bigger...
Rip it, shock it,rest it and grow...and eat like hell....This is my opinion everyones different but i just keep out growing cloths so it must work...
 
For a NATURAL trainee, the only way to get big is to focus on the major lifts (squats, deads, bench, rows, etc.), and go heavy (eating a lot is of course a pre-requisite).

When drugs are incorporated you can get away with a lot more BS.

Note: I'm not saying that gear builds the muscle for you, but the only time those musclemag routines (train a bodypart once/week, tons of sets, fairly high rep) work is when someone is on cycle.
 
To build strength- you want to lift heavy weight failing at 3-5 reps, lots of sets, lots of rest between sets.

To build size- you want to lift a weight where you are failing between 8 and 12 reps. You want to perform 5-7 sets per exercise, and rest between sets should be minimal, if training with a partner, use the "I go, you go" method, with MAYBE enough time for a drink of water between sets, if that.

To build shape- you want to fail between 15 and 20 reps, everything else the same as size training.
 
ocisbomb said:
To build strength- you want to lift heavy weight failing at 3-5 reps, lots of sets, lots of rest between sets.

To build size- you want to lift a weight where you are failing between 8 and 12 reps. You want to perform 5-7 sets per exercise, and rest between sets should be minimal, if training with a partner, use the "I go, you go" method, with MAYBE enough time for a drink of water between sets, if that.

To build shape- you want to fail between 15 and 20 reps, everything else the same as size training.
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#1. There is NO such thing as "shaping" a muscle. You can thank your mommy and daddy for the shape of your muscles.

#2. You can grow on any rep range, powerlifters are HUGE, they just don't diet like a bodybuilder. The reason why you don't sit there and go for 1-3 RM's all the time is because your body and CNS can't handle that for long, but you're still going to grow in these rep ranges.

#3. The way to effect your gaining size potential through your training is to take short 1-3 minute rests in between sets. Reason being the metabolic response(release of GH, natural Testosterone boost, increased metabolism, etc...)
 
Short rest between sets is good. And by "Shape", I meant, bring out more stirations, look more "Ripped" but that, of course, has a lot to do with diet and cardio too.

This is just my experience.

Also, it's good to power lift every 3-5 workouts per bodypart because when your 1rm is up, you can push more weight for you 8-12 (size) sets, and when a muscle is able to perform more work, more times, size will increase as a response to the increased demand, as provided by the increase in weight and reps.

You should keep a training journal and try to add at least one rep to each set per weight, every week. This is a slow, but quantifiable measure of progress.
 
I rarely even count reps any more. I lift a weight until i cant do another rep with good form. Like if i get to 8 and i can do more, i do more, i dont just stop because i wanted to get 8 and i got it. The next time i up the weight. But i believe lifting heavy and upping your weight is what its all about. Forcing your body to always work harder, adapt and overcome, your muscles will grow. Im happy with a weight work out when at the end im as covered in sweat as when i do cardio. I always try to work out with maximim intensity. Just my two cents.
 
When I want to add size I pyarmid -one warm-up set of 10-12 reps. than add weigh for 8,7,6 reps. 4 sets each exercise total. 8-10 sets for small muscles, 15-20 sets for large. 4 day split.
 
I see a few people bringing up the overload and progression aspects to building muscle. A lot of people made some good points. I tried to hit those people with K where I could.
 
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I voted that it's necessary to lift big but as others have pointed out, you have to qualify that in several ways. I'll agree that constantly going for the 1-2 rep set won't cut it either, but it's hard to argue with the mirror the day after hitting a 1 rep max with good form. I think the shock to the CNS helps release the GH, almost as if you were doing old school shock sets of 20-100, which I still do occaisionally when I have the energy. Lastly, also mentioned earlier, assistence work goes better in a moderate range and it helps keep the intensity up. SO- getting to the point- lifting heavy is the foundation,but use all your tools to get the best results.
 
i see alot of posts about lifting mediun/light weights for definition or shape.

don't work that way folks.

definition is brought out through diet

shape is determined by genetics

PERIOD

the best way to lift for overall size is to hit all fiber types- a, b, and c.

this is accomplished through rep schemes or 1-5, 6-10, and 12-15 in each set.
 
ocisbomb said:
Short rest between sets is good. And by "Shape", I meant, bring out more stirations, look more "Ripped" but that, of course, has a lot to do with diet and cardio too.
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Short rests between sets makes the workout more cardio-like, which has benefits and drawbacks.

Striations and looking ripped is a product of diet, cardio, and the type of gear you are using.

ocisbomb said:
Also, it's good to power lift every 3-5 workouts per bodypart because when your 1rm is up, you can push more weight for you 8-12 (size) sets, and when a muscle is able to perform more work, more times, size will increase as a response to the increased demand, as provided by the increase in weight and reps.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll necessarily see a direct correlation between an increase in your 1RM and your 8-12RM. Of course, in general if you're getting stronger it's going to have a carryover effect, but you might need to see a 20lb increase in your 1RM before your 8-12RM is affected. There are numerous differences between lifting in the single rep range vs mid-rep range that do not allow for a direct relationship.

ocisbomb said:
You should keep a training journal and try to add at least one rep to each set per weight, every week. This is a slow, but quantifiable measure of progress.
Click to expand...

Progression is key. Whether it's extra reps or more weight, you need to progress to grow.
 
majutsu said:
Lift heavy? You will not get much hypertrophy near your 1RM. If lifting heavy got you bigger, then how could powerlifters increase their bench or dead between comps without changing weight classes? The fact is if you lift heavy doubles or triples like I do to cycle up for push-pulls you will not gain much size, say arm size. Powerlifters are not that big at all in proportion to their 1 rep max lifts. Hypertrophy is best achieved at 60-85% of your maximum with a lot more volume. I'm actually doing a hypertrophy cycle after months of westside. My bodyweight and measurements are changing weekly now, but I did not budge my weight at all while doing westside despite increasing my bench 22%. Most of the adaptations to maximum effort training are fiber transitions (ST - FT), neurological adaptations and form improvements.

So lifting very heavy, near your max will not make you big. It will make you strong. Working out 60-85% of your maxes at a high volume is the best way to increase muscle size.

That being said, I believe that going near 80% gives a thicker physique than the guys who coast around 60%. Franco, Lou, Ronnie, Dorian, etc prove this.

Let's take a bodybuilder who's one-rep max squat is 425lbs. This is a good beginner/low-intermediate squat number. That bodybuilder will get a lot more size doing light sets of 75% of his one-rep max (which means 4 sets of 10 at 315lbs (75%)) than he will going heavy at 95% (doing 2 sets of 2 at 405lbs). There just isn't enough volume for good growth stimulus going heavy (95%) as there is when going light (75%).

Anyone who wants to read about all the latest training theories and periodizations along these lines should check out Tudor Bompa's (the Romanian Olympic weight training coach and trainer of 11 medalists) book Serious Strength Training, the second edition. It has EMG studies of exercises, explanation of hypertrophy, mixed, and max effort/powerlifting phases to blend to your satisfaction and goals. Very interesting read, even if you ultimately discard it for yourself.
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Excellent post
 
I answered "in between"
Altough theres no doubt you have to lift heavy,
but not to heavy to get past the -sometimes thin- line of hurting
You cant grow if youre in rehab
 
Quote from John Brown, former Mr. Universe: If you want to be big like the big boys, you have to lift big like the big boys, eat big like the big boys and take the big boys drugs. (end quote)
 
TRAPezoid said:
Heavy, all the way. One things that sucks is that the mass muscle seems to disiapate faster. I fucked up my hand last year and I had to have surgery, I obviously wasn't able to workout. I couldn't workout for 2 months. That muscle left so quickly even though I kept taking protein, eating, etc.

Why is that?
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Probably, maybe had reached and surpassed your genetic limits and when you stop pushing the muscle, It will almost immediately beging a decline back to genetic max. That is what I have been told, many threads bout cycling and having to continue to keep any real size above genetic limits. Just my .2 pennies, and they arent worth that much probably !
 
from what I have seen once a certain degree of power is reached, one shoudl then opt for a higher rep multi exercise routine to look like a bodybuilder

fro me this meant repping 225 for Squats, Deadlifts,and Bench.

once I got up to 315 for reps on all three lifts, I realized that a point of diminishing returns was had
 
Ive incorporated AB type workouts with great success.
basically if Im trying to get a muscle bigger I train it every 4 days with alternating heavy and light(pretty much low rep+compound=heavy, high rep+compound(but different than the other day)=light). for these bodyparts I stay almost completely away from shock techniques. I find when I do all kinds of drop sets and superset and forced rep and negative orwhatever else you can think of 4 days is not enugh time to recoup and I dont get very much hypertrophy.
I utilize that technique for laging bodyparts
for bodyparts I am just trying to increase the quality of my muscle and perhaps gain a bit of stimulation I train it once every 7 days utilizing shock techniques.

i dunno if thats crazy to you guys but it works for me

some of my personal best lifts
Deadlifts 605x2(using a belt and straps)
Squats 645x2(ass to grass, bodybuilders stance, but ill admit, with a squat suit, belt and wraps)
Bench press 365x10(dont like low rep bench press)
DB Incline press 180'sx 10
Seated Military press 275x8

taken a long time to get there...but it works and I am lifetime injury free...patience is a virtue
 
thelion2005 said:
You do not have to lift heavy to get big. You have to stimulate, teardown and rebuild.

Chest for example ... You can build a 50 inch chest with three pec exercises, one rib cage and three back exercises, and never have to go over 175 bb or 45 db.
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Bro you use 175 bb?!?! How do you stimulate, teardown - i'd have to do 100 reps at that pussy weight. You can't be serious man. How could that possibly stimulate anyone with any decent size.
 
I think one must switch back and forth between heavy and moderate weights. When you are lifting heavy for some time and strength and size gains slow down to a crawl, its time to go moderate and up the reps.

Then, after your weighs that you repped for 8 or 9 are now 12, go back to heavy....
 
i find pushing the heaviest weight in different training phases is the key. if i'm doing 1 to 5 reps i'll push the most i can for every set. when i'm hitting 6 to 10 rep range i do the exact same and 12 to 15 the same.

i'm sort of stealing from dante and his manual where he says the heaviest for the given rep range. i cant do the heaviest i can in anything for 20 reps like he does but on my 12 to 15 rep day, yesterday for chest, i was hitting incline db's with 90 for 15 for 3 sets. it was absolutely killer. then flat flies with 80's for 12 for 3 sets. super hard. used alot of rest-pause too.

i just started using the dc principle of heavy as possible at all times for all rep ranges. i think its effective now but need a few more weeks for a final, personal assessment.

prior to this i was using phases of training but had specific days where the intensity was high. now, the intensity is always high regardless of rep ranges.
 
I had a buddy that kept agging me to do a high rep workout with him. i tried it for about 4 weeks and hated it. I actually got weaker. It wasn't my mental state either, if I'm gonna lift I'm puttin everything into it. I'll never do it again.

lift BIG = get BIG
 
this is very easy, lift big to get big. high weight low reps works for everyone who's ever tried it as far as i know.
 
I am no pro but I always do my 3x10 rep sets at about 75% and then on the last set couple of sets max out for 3-5. Is this an effective way to hit both High & Low?
 
kdasilva said:
I am no pro but I always do my 3x10 rep sets at about 75% and then on the last set couple of sets max out for 3-5. Is this an effective way to hit both High & Low?
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Brother some of it is purely personal but for me it's 5 X 5's, 5 x 6's or drop sets - 8, 6 , 4, 8, 15 on defining lifts.
 
i've seen cutler workout and the most he ever put on the bench press was 245.... lift real slow... 5-5-1 counts for ten to 15 reps.... just what i saw
 
Lyle McDonald wrote something a few years ago stating something along the lines of, if you are lifting the same amount of weight (whether it be heavy, light weight, high rep, low rep, etc) from one year to the next, with no added change in strength, then you will probably end up looking the same and not be much bigger.

Over the years, I think I agree with this.

BMJ
 
PlayaPimp said:
i've seen cutler workout and the most he ever put on the bench press was 245.... lift real slow... 5-5-1 counts for ten to 15 reps.... just what i saw
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Yeah, and I've seen Ronnie go really heavy for set of 2.
 
Moderate to heavy weights, basic exercises, strict proper technique and a full range of motion works best for me.
 
Variety is where it is at. Doing it all is the best way to keep the body changing. Just be careful to not do too much when the body isnt ready for it. In the words of the great Lee Haney "Stimulate, dont annhialate"
 
This dude who used to lift at my gym was weak to say the least, lat pulldowns of 160 was his working set, but he was fuckin swole and ripped to the bone. I personally can put on size but i never can get really strong. 18.5 inch arms with only a 65lb dummy curl for 5 reps. Im going to focus on heavy set being 6 reps min. The more reps, the more tearing down, the more rebuilding.
Im beating my head against a brick wall trying to get strong with my lifting partners, i just dont think will get there.....i can get bigger though.
 
bigrand said:
i just dont think will get there.....i can get bigger though.
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That's your problem right there bro. I had a problem with strength gains years ago (at around 20yrs old). I feel like I know a little about training and I knew what I was doing should stimulate strength gains. I actually used a tip from a HS coach that use to tell me "when you get set before every play you have to KNOW you are better than the man in front of you, don't just think it... know it!". I started using that with my lifting. I would know before I went to the gym how much I was going to lift before I got there (I used the weight from the week before and added to it appropriately).

e.g. At the time I was working with 275 for 5 x 5's on bp. The next week I would put 285 on the bar and do it. Of course there were some weeks I couldn't get all 5 sets but for about 3 months my bp went up faster than it ever did or has. I started to plateau some at that point but by then I was working out with 335 for 5 x 5's.

I promise you the only thing I did differently was my mental preparation. I just truly believed I was going to lift the weight I had on the bar!

Good luck bro! :coffee:
 
On the surface this question seems very simple, but it isn't. I for the most part, believe in the 6 - 8 heavy method. But after weeks of that, I get fatigued but I don't feel the soreness the next few days. Just the fatigue. However if I do say, 3 weeks heavy, then hit 5 or 6 sets of 13 like I did the other day for biceps, I felt and still feel it. To make a long story short: go primarily heavy, but change it up on occasion. Your body is an extremely adaptive force.
 
marvelous54 said:
That's your problem right there bro. I had a problem with strength gains years ago (at around 20yrs old). I feel like I know a little about training and I knew what I was doing should stimulate strength gains. I actually used a tip from a HS coach that use to tell me "when you get set before every play you have to KNOW you are better than the man in front of you, don't just think it... know it!". I started using that with my lifting. I would know before I went to the gym how much I was going to lift before I got there (I used the weight from the week before and added to it appropriately).

e.g. At the time I was working with 275 for 5 x 5's on bp. The next week I would put 285 on the bar and do it. Of course there were some weeks I couldn't get all 5 sets but for about 3 months my bp went up faster than it ever did or has. I started to plateau some at that point but by then I was working out with 335 for 5 x 5's.

I promise you the only thing I did differently was my mental preparation. I just truly believed I was going to lift the weight I had on the bar!

Good luck bro! :coffee:
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Yeah, im a pessamist, all my lifting buddys tell me that too! There have been too many times where i went in week and week out and the weight never got easier, sometimes harder, its supposed to get easier each week with the same weights. I would always go heavier then work till i could eventually rep it 8 times, then go heavier. Hit a point where the weight never got any easier. I want to hit it and i push it, but it just doesnt go, even when i go in there with a pissed off demenor and on a mission. Im injured now and want to go back with a vengance in about 2 weeks, ill regroup and rededicate and see what happens.
 
bigrand said:
Yeah, im a pessamist, all my lifting buddys tell me that too! There have been too many times where i went in week and week out and the weight never got easier, sometimes harder, its supposed to get easier each week with the same weights. I would always go heavier then work till i could eventually rep it 8 times, then go heavier. Hit a point where the weight never got any easier. I want to hit it and i push it, but it just doesnt go, even when i go in there with a pissed off demenor and on a mission. Im injured now and want to go back with a vengance in about 2 weeks, ill regroup and rededicate and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a guy I work out with occasionally just like that. I'm sure you do fine I was just pointing out the obvious. Good luck with the injury recovery bro!
 
I have a consistent routine I follow. I follow this plan for approx 25 weeks before starting over.

Week 1 I always start off 3 x 10.

Starting with week 3, i add another set. 4 x 10
Week 4 i lower the last set to 8 reps and increase the weight 3 x 10, 1 x 8

I follow this same type of style... increasing sets, lowering reps and increasing weight.

By week 21 + I am usually doing 6 sets of 5,5,5,4,4,3

I follow that same pattern until I get to where I am doing 4,4,4,3,2,1

After that I usually will take 1 week to do a 1 rep max test to see where I stand, then start all over at the top with 3 x 10.


This has always seemed to suit me well. :coffee:
 
I'm more of an athlete than a body builder....so getting to big slows me down. I've done it before, was about 250 and was huge, but the slowest man on the planet. I'm much better overall around 205 or so. It's hard, I mix up days of heavy klifting with high reps, also plyometrics, etc. This keeps me both strong and fast. Just what works for me, though.
 
Hummm good question

it would depend what you are training for? just to look big at the club or to compete , its one thing to lift big BUT i have seen guys lift crazy weight at the gym and not have any form using secondary muscles to help so my veiw is what was said by my favorite Pro Shawn Ray ,"lift for tomorrow not today" meaning train yourself right learn style and form and size will come if you want to impress people in the gym than thats all you will ever do , i have trained for years and its hard to not want size but i know there are steps becasue there are the guys at every gym that look so stupid with big arms and chest NO TRAPS NO QUADS NO CALVES they push crazy weight but really look at them....?????

My 2 cents
 
I was refered to do a "ladder" routine... I start out with medium weight and move up to a difficult weight then drop back down... for instance

start with 60's then 70's then 80's for 8-10 reps then I go back to 70's and and then 60's... and on that last set w/ the 60's I pump out as much as I can.

Has anyone tried this, seems to work for me..

Inhibitor
 
richspc said:
Powerlifters are the biggest people on the planet. Arnold, Franco, all started as powerlifters, now Coleman lifts heavy with the high rep. shit, cause he is taking a suitcase full or roids.
Click to expand...

Coleman has enough roids to give a horse gyno.
 
jetty said:
Coleman has enough roids to give a horse gyno.
Click to expand...

I hate people like you - and average person pointing towards roids, not recognizing the hard work and sheer genetics it takes to look like that. You could take twice the roids and never acheive an ounce of what he has acheived... have a little respect... this is a steroid oriented bodybuilding site in case you didn't know

And Richspc is even more full of shit - he does high rep cuz hes on? You are ridiculous
 
steelmass said:
I hate people like you - and average person pointing towards roids, not recognizing the hard work and sheer genetics it takes to look like that. You could take twice the roids and never acheive an ounce of what he has acheived... have a little respect... this is a steroid oriented bodybuilding site in case you didn't know

And Richspc is even more full of shit - he does high rep cuz hes on? You are ridiculous
Click to expand...
what do you mean you "hate people" like me? I personally think Ronnie C. has a repulsive physique and one can only assume by looking at his roid gut that he's on a shitload of gear. Don't get me wrong, i know at the top level genetics is just as important as their drug regimin, but come on bro. Pick up your skirt and grab your balls and get over it. Don't take things so personally, "you hate". LOL.
 
My avatar shows me only after about five weeks into my first cycle I dabbled with a cycle when I was 18 but did not know what I was doing so most of my frame is or after this cycle at least was natural and back then I lifted higher reps lower weights and had pretty good gains. Probably genetics and my chest grew like a weed this way (as someone mentioned in this thread) however this time around with my cycle decided to lift heavy as that seems to be the common thought here and so far that is working out great as well. But the reason I decided I liked lifting heavy the most after this go round is the strength gains obviously far exceed that of light weights and that in itself is motivating to me during a workout. I do think that when I get into my cutting cycle though that I will be going back to the high reps low weights theory for chiseling. I do expect however to lose a lot of strength I had gained in the cycle but I am not competing in any strong man contest I am just competing in the gene pool for the ladies. Interesting the theories about this however good thread.

By the way I am not bragging or anything nor claiming to be huge in anyway just happy with what I have so far nothing more
 
CO B-man said:
My avatar shows me only after about five weeks into my first cycle I dabbled with a cycle when I was 18 but did not know what I was doing so most of my frame is or after this cycle at least was natural and back then I lifted higher reps lower weights and had pretty good gains. Probably genetics and my chest grew like a weed this way (as someone mentioned in this thread) however this time around with my cycle decided to lift heavy as that seems to be the common thought here and so far that is working out great as well. But the reason I decided I liked lifting heavy the most after this go round is the strength gains obviously far exceed that of light weights and that in itself is motivating to me during a workout. I do think that when I get into my cutting cycle though that I will be going back to the high reps low weights theory for chiseling. I do expect however to lose a lot of strength I had gained in the cycle but I am not competing in any strong man contest I am just competing in the gene pool for the ladies. Interesting the theories about this however good thread.

By the way I am not bragging or anything nor claiming to be huge in anyway just happy with what I have so far nothing more
Click to expand...

I would have slimmed down before doing anything if I were you. High reps low weights does not get you cut LMFAO
 
Neo22 said:
I would have slimmed down before doing anything if I were you. High reps low weights does not get you cut LMFAO
Click to expand...


I value your input as much as I value the input of a kindergarten class teaching physics as long as you have responses the way you do. Talk about insecurity the obvious sign is to put someone else down to make you feel better inside about your own shortcomings.
I know exactly what it takes to get cut. diet and cardio. I simply stated I plan on changing my workout routine.
 
Want to throw in my two cents here. I've never been big or very strong. I'm just kinda average looking. But, I've gone from tiny to high average... Anyhow, though I know this will get me laughed at, a few months back I was repping on flat bench with 235. That was a lot for me. I felt good, so I kept doing it and doing it. Honestly, after the first month or so I didn't really get any more growth though I tried to keep the weight heavy. The problem was my triceps were lagging.

My chest does most of the work during bench. I don't know why, but it always has. And, I can't seem to get good growth for triceps with isolation movements. AND, true close-grip benches kill my shoulders and elbows. Though I still do isolation movements for the triceps, I've modified how I bench so that my hands are about 5-6" closer together- which still isn't and extremely close grip. I've had to lower my weight (all the way down to 185 initially- see, told you you would laugh...), but for the first time, my anterior shoulders and inner tricep heads are getting adequate work. My chest is growing again and still gets sore every workout, but my shoulders and elbows don't hurt. So, sometimes it can benifit to lighten the load for the right reasons.


Jacob
 
The problem was my triceps were lagging.

My chest does most of the work during bench. I don't know why, but it always has.

Basic kinesiology as to why your chest does most of the work during the bench press. It is the primary muscle and the triceps are actually a close secondary. Pick up a kinesiology book might help you plan your workouts better. Not flaming just saying!

Because your tri's being secondary during bench press, after working on my chest I have always then worked the tri's as most people do to basically finish off your triceps that the bench press work already started.
 
Being an X competitive powerlifter and now more of a BB sort of....I can a point for both....

I do both...I do sets of 5 on my heavy day and sets of 8-10 on my light days...honestly i never ever agreed with singles and triples...till comp time....
Ive benched close to 500 and squated well into the 7's in the squat....
i had a 56" chest and 30" legs...
 
Well in order to get bigger you have to keep getting stronger so the weights go up on your hypertrophy weeks following your strength training. Hypertrophy training will not make you stronger in the long run and will plateau and wont be able to get past it. Strength training is the only way to go up in hypertrophy training to get bigger.

4 weeks of strength then 2 weeks of hypertrophy is a good way to start.

I will also say this...DC Training
 
regardless of wieght used you must train your muscles to failure. I think it is easier to do that with higher weight. You also stimulate muscle fiber differently by shocking with weight compared to burning out with reps. They both have their time and place, but if you want to get big, the most important thing is still to eat, eat, eat. Then I would train heavy. If I were an athelete, I would train heavy compound movements to get strong, but that won't necessarily give you the "big" appearance you are looking for if you are a bodybuilder
 
swordfish151 said:
I believe you have to lift BIG w/PROPER FORM....i can say for myself and personal experience that going heavy has put on muscle for me...that light weight shit doesnt cut it at all...to get big you must lift big..but with proper form ...just cause you have 500lbs on the squat rack and barley bending your knees doesnt mean your gaing mass...or cause your throwing up 185lbs on the bicep curl but you look like you have down syndrome while doing it doesnt mean you'll gain an inch....
Click to expand...

That comment about down syndrome and curling is exactly what I saw 2 days ago in the gym. I couldn't help but laugh, felt like going over there and telling the kid to do about a 1/4 of the weight he was doing. It was one of the funniest moments in the gym ever, you just had to be there.
 
majutsu said:
Let's take a bodybuilder who's one-rep max squat is 425lbs. This is a good beginner/low-intermediate squat number.
Click to expand...


maybe for the beginners you know... but i dont think ive ever met someone (in person) that can touch their ass to the floor with 425 on their back
 
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