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Leaning Out HRT add Ons

Power36

New member
For simple blasting and cruising on an HRT plan, not to get bigger, but to lean out, any suggestions? I wish there were more human grade injectable options, as people seem to love Masteron....Proviron, Deca (for joints more than leaning out), Winny, Var, Primo, Tbol, in addition to T, GH, HCG HRT, any creative ideas for a 6 month plan blast and cruise for leaning out....not all of those at once of course!!!! Just throwing out ideas of compounds I might like to toy with. I put muscle on easy now that Im lifting moderate again...doing tons of intervals/"cardio" you might say, getting leaner, but still big and slowly putting on more pounds...want to drop bodyfat and bodyweight....cant do the major calorie cutting stuff, have weak immune system and adrenal fatigue, so I cant go psycho cutting calories and compromise my health...
 
For me its all about what I eat (or dont eat for that matter). I was 185 pounds but did not feel comfortable at all. I readjusted my eating habits (notice I did not say that I went on a diet) and implemented cardio 3 or 4 times per week. First I HATED cardio! but with time I realized I really enjoyed as I got "lost" in the run. My mind just relaxed and gives me time to think. I got to enjoy it so much that I dopped to 155 pounds (too much). So now at 170 I can tell you I feel a lot better.
 
For simple blasting and cruising on an HRT plan, not to get bigger, but to lean out, any suggestions?

cutting cals will slow muscle growth and speed fat lose. If you are eating ultra clean it can be a lot of work to eat the needed amount of cals so cutting cals (200-300 a day) should not be difficult or out of the question.

You could also cut your lifting as well and work like one big compound move a day and then hit an xfit style workout. Your should still be able to gain some strength and should really cut fat. Diet being equal,I havent seen anything melt bodyfat like xfit and definitely nothing that can be done in as little time.
 
cutting cals will slow muscle growth and speed fat lose. If you are eating ultra clean it can be a lot of work to eat the needed amount of cals so cutting cals (200-300 a day) should not be difficult or out of the question.

You could also cut your lifting as well and work like one big compound move a day and then hit an xfit style workout. Your should still be able to gain some strength and should really cut fat. Diet being equal,I havent seen anything melt bodyfat like xfit and definitely nothing that can be done in as little time.

Youre right...I need to cut calories even if its minor, and clean up the diet....if I dont go too extreme I can drop the lbs in time without compromising my health issues...

I do not lift too much right now, Im actually doing mostly intervals and integrated circuit training with full body athletic workouts...two of my workouts a week start (after a dynamic warm up and bar complex warmup) start with a major compound lift in the rack or on the platform...then move into supersets of other functional compound movements but often single limb or working in different planes, at different bar tempos, and then finish up with some sort of super metabolic cirucuit or superset....two of my other workouts are a extended dynamic warmup (lots of skipping, lunging, agility type drills), working into light sprints, then 20 minutes of circuits that can include med balls, KBs, barbell complexes, etc, in a rapid fashion, then end with 10-15 minutes of conditioning intervals....and I do a few active recovery long walks a week too, and two additionalworkouts with proprioceptive type Gary Gray/Grey Cook type movements patterns and TRX stuff...

Id never do xfit, aside from the many injuries Ive accumulated over the years I have to keep my workouts individualived for, I do not want to acquire any new ones or be around kool aid drinking loonies....the pro to that is more people are doing "functional" type workouts and interval training, however its so cultish and their programming is blasphemy...I mean riding the short bus to exercise science school...olympic movements at high reps, "plyos" at high reps meaning they arent plyometric in nature anymore and are brutal conditioning (and I do not mean brutal in a good way, brutal on joints and connective tissue), and a million other horrific things...they certify "coaches" in a weekend, when most "real" coaches take years of study and practice, mentorship, multiple certifications, degrees, etc to really get good at coaching the finer points of olympic lifts, plyos, speed drills, and those retards certify anyone in a weekend that plunks down the cash? Then they go back to po dunk wherever, hang a shingle, and train everyone like its Navy Seals tryouts, without knowing too much apparently about assessing peoples backgrounds, training age (they probably do not even know what that term means), injury history, etc etc etc....yea, yikes Ive talked to "coaches" and met so many Xfitters, Im torn between applauding their business model for making so many people fired up about training, but also disgusted that they probably also risk injuries and tearing down people without realizing it....just watch some of the videos on various websites, peoples form on simple things like squats and overhead press are ridiculous.....

BUT my diatribe aside....full body compound movements, interval training with med balls, KBs, everything else they use, is really great to torch fat....far better than steady state cardio....but people would be better off educating themselves or finding a more advanced sports performance based training facility (most major cities have an Athletes Performance or Velocity, or probably a smaller mom and pop type place), with coaches who have degrees in the field, experience coaching athletes at colleges, and way better programming skills. Probably cost the same too. Or for simple starters just getting very easy to read books like New Rules of Lifting by Cosgrove (The New Rules of Lifting), Core Performance (Books/DVDs - Core Store), Power Training (Men's Health Power Training), and many others that have guys with much more experience and knowledge than your average Xfitter.

They took exercises from sports and traditional strength and conditioning that everyone has been using for many many decades (that only non-athletes dont recognize aka the general public), revitalized fads like KBs, standby stuff that any real athlete used like med balls, etc....they did a heck of a job marketing and packaging it....when some idiot sees someone doing a front squat and a med ball toss, then says "Crossfit" it just shows their complete ignorance for strength and conditioning....xfit took lots of good stuff, that has purposeful meanings within the right context, threw them in a blender, put sets and rep schemes on a dartboard to match whatever exercise they pulled out of a blender, then get their cheerleading on....

Im torn like i said...they are getting people fired up and motivated....but they dont have a clue many of them how poorly they are attacking the situation with risks to injury and overuse...and yes dude do they ever pull in lots of hot babes my hats off...they get girls out of cardio classes and machine based workouts, get them doing real lifts and intervals, and it shreds them up oh so beautifully :) But there are better ways...it just takes some time to educate yourself or find somone who knows what they are doing...

For those who the books I mention above are too basic for you, step up to Mel Siff and read Supertraining...(Supertraining By Mel Siff)
 
To be fair, I did say xfit style. The low duration high intensity, or even tabata style workouts when done with consistency are hard to beat at peeling the fat off.

As for your generalizations, the same could be said about just about any "group" of athletic people. They key is to find the good ones in the bunch. Some of the best CF gyms have dedicated oly, rowing etc classes in addition to doing their own CF programming. What you have experienced may be the majority but your blanket statement is kinda like saying all gyms that focus on bodybuilding, powerlifting or extreme distance running/cycling are the same and they are not.

Hell, someone could come here and look at all the dudes on AAS and lump them into the same category in terms of AAS knowledge but if you have been here for any period of time you know that there are some people here who dont even know what end of the pin to use and others who are quite advanced at AAS use. Just because they all frequent EF doesnt mean they should be labeled the same.

and yes dude do they ever pull in lots of hot babes my hats off...they get girls out of cardio classes and machine based workouts, get them doing real lifts and intervals, and it shreds them up oh so beautifully :) But there are better ways...it just takes some time to educate yourself or find somone who knows what they are doing.

In all fairness, they dont pull in hot babes nearly as often as they create them. And believe it or not some of those folks who do "know what they are doing" actually run CF gyms.

All of the training banter aside, you need to work smarter and eat better. Your body composition is controlled more in the kitchen than the gym.
 
"As for your generalizations, the same could be said about just about any "group" of athletic people. They key is to find the good ones in the bunch. Some of the best CF gyms have dedicated oly, rowing etc classes in addition to doing their own CF programming. What you have experienced may be the majority but your blanket statement is kinda like saying all gyms that focus on bodybuilding, powerlifting or extreme distance running/cycling are the same and they are not. "

I totally agree and I was generalizing and stereotyping to make a point. Ive heard there are some who are great coaches who had backgrounds long before xfit and use it more for marketing and brand recognition, and actually modify the workouts and coach them up better. Just no one Ive ran into or the gyms Ive stopped in do that...many many nice nice and motivated folks, but if Im going to spend money on "coaching" id go to a Athletes Performance or Velocity hands down over a Xfit gym, or whatever my focus was (o lifting, powerlifting, etc) find someone specific to my needs and investigage thoroughly. Not some lame coach certified in a weekend that was formally an ACE personal trainer or soccer mom who liked working out so took the plunge to become a xfit "coach" in a weekend or two.

"Hell, someone could come here and look at all the dudes on AAS and lump them into the same category in terms of AAS knowledge but if you have been here for any period of time you know that there are some people here who dont even know what end of the pin to use and others who are quite advanced at AAS use. Just because they all frequent EF doesnt mean they should be labeled the same. "

Now that was funny....had me laughing as I know nothing about AAS and thats why I come to this site, to learn as much as I can about AAS...and there is much diversity in the levels of knowledge it seems and maturity. However compared to other forums, this one seems tops with great guys who are very helpful. I could have been the guy looking at which end to use to pin myself ha.



"In all fairness, they dont pull in hot babes nearly as often as they create them. And believe it or not some of those folks who do "know what they are doing" actually run CF gyms."

I believe it, just have not experienced it only heard about the "boxes" that have good coaching. And yes I do believe that they create the hot babes, because many girls have probably never done anything high intensity interval style, and full body compound movements in lifting...and that will take care of business like nothing the mainstream is doing to stereotype the commercial gyms. So yes, as I said their general concepts are a step in the right direction for the general population, ie making interval training more popular, using o lifts, med balls, plyos, full body training, etc etc...so its not just athletes who are familar with these things but the girl next door and guy at the office in a cubicle. Those are positive things.


"All of the training banter aside, you need to work smarter and eat better. Your body composition is controlled more in the kitchen than the gym.[/quote]"

I need to eat better...I train very smart...and I have a lot of people on my team so to say helping me with training that are legit, as I have lots of injury issues to work around. Its diet that is my missing link...I guess its safe to say I cant slack like I used to and stay at 10%, guess Im kinda lamenting the days I force fed 6k calories to maintain 235-245, and now am eating half the calories and 250 at higher bodyfat wishing I was going down on the scale not up!

Abs are carved in the kitchen Ive heard...damnit...
 
Ok I will write down what has worked for ME take it leave it, laugh at it don’t matter it worked for me.

As far as I understand our bodies are able to store Carbs and Fat but not Proteins. Hence the reason why in our game we are always intaking protein drinks/Protein rich food. For us, in this game, are cursed with the simple fact that we want to grow but keep fat to a minimum. This is very tricky and it has been proven that it is not the same for every single person here. Age, time training, AAS, etc. play an important role on what and when we need to take as well as how much of it we should intake. All of these needs to be taken into consideration whenever you stand on the scale and it (for some reason) the number keep going up. And when these numbers keep going up one can only assume that we are getting Fat. But this is not 100% true.

Now calories are calories. That is to say that the average Joe can consume 1k quality calories OR 1k crappy calories and his weigh will be the same. But by intaking crappy calories the average Joe will risk other associated symptoms (heart disease, high cholesterol, etc.).

Am I fat or am I big? Another thing must of us don’t do or do not mention here is body fat %. It is not the same to be 200 pounds with 3% BF than 200 pounds with 15% BF. This measurement should be obtained and checked (monthly, bi-weekly) as it is a very important part of your baseline and it will help you understand your improvements or lack there of.

But if I want to drop weigh (notice no one ever mentions BF) I will be hungry all day long. This should not be the case. Whenever you want to drop BF you must do 3 things:
1. Increase aerobic or cardiac exercise/Keep resistance exercise
2. Create a caloric deficit (This is the tricky part. This is where the right types/amounts of food play their role)
3. Adjust your food intake to compensate for #1 & #2

I found out that whether a person is intaking outside substances (AAS, etc.) or not cardio should be part of everyone’s routine regardless. The benefits of cardio like exercises are far too important even if cardio is performed at a low level/short periods of time. But if the benefits of cardio are not compensated with the correct food/amounts the user risks the possibility of loosing lean muscle not just fat.

If you create a calorie deficit, you need to adjust your food intake. You will need to eat more often and your food should be slow digesting. While doing this, you must keep a good balance of your micro-nutrients (Protein-Carbs-Fats) and their associated amount of calories for each (Proteins= 4 cals – Carbs= 4 cals – Fats = 9 cals. All these are on a “Per gram” measurement) Here is where the user needs to figure out what he needs to intake and when it should be taken. Not all of us are the same so you need to research what you need.



As far as resistance exercise, I will leave that up each user. But for me, while I wanted to lean out I used a “Push-Pull” principle and I would train 3 days a week. Cardio was included on these 3 days as well as in 1 day off. That is to say that I would train (For Example) my back and biceps on the “Pull day” (Include cardio), Legs & shoulders the next day (no cardio on this day) Chest and triceps & on the “Push” day (Include cardio). I also did cardio on a day off from the gym.

For cardio I ran (inside or outside don’t matter) 2 miles in 30 minutes x 4 times a week. I would run at a pace of 4.0 on a flat surface while on the treadmill. Whenever I got tired of this I would run the 2 miles on the street for the same amount of time. My heart rate gets around 147 which is more than enough to burn fat. Another thing about cardio, it will keep you regular especially if done in the morning on an empty stomach. I also sweat easily whenever I work out. This I noticed started whenever I included running as part of my exercise routine.

Now for the food. This (to me) is the most important part of this lifestyle. I personally do not like “Diets”. Instead I have learnt to appreciate foods which are high on quality and have good taste. So I’ve made a complete change on my eating habits. While this change was good, I did not keep foods which were not as good out of the picture. I still consumed these “not so healthy foods” but at a moderate rate while keeping my ultimate goal in mind. This I believe gave me sanity.

What do I consume you wonder? Here is a brief list:

Protein Carbohydrate Fat
almonds 1/4 cup 8 8 18
black beans 1/2 cup 6 17 0.5
Black Forest ham (2 oz) 10 2 1
bread 5 19 1
Brown rice 1 cup 5 46 1.6
can chicken 10 0 0
can tuna 16 0 0
cheese 2% / 1 slice 4 1 3
chicken breast 22 0 3
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
Egg 8 1 5
Egg beaters 1/4 cup 6 1 0
Egg whites 1 cup 24 4 0
Green beans 1/2 cup 1 4 0
Milk 1 cup 8 11 5
Oatmeal 1/2 cup & 1/2 cup milk 5.9 28.1 3.6
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
pita 6 30 0.5
Pork Loin (3 oz) 24.3 0 8.2
protein 26 4 2
sweet baked potatoe 2 24 0.2
tilapia 23 0 1
Tortilla wraps 2 medium 18 34 5
Turkey breast (4 slices) 10 3 1.5
Turkey bacon 2 slices 5 0 3


When do I consume these? Here is a sample:

Monday Protein Carbs Fat
Egg whites 1/2 cup 12 2 0
Turkey breast (4 slices) 10 3 1.5
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
can chicken x 2 20 0 0
protein 52 8 4
tilapia 46 0 2
Green beans 1cup 2 6 0
protein 52 8 4
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
Total 224 45 32.5
Calories 896 180 130 1206

Tuesday Protein Carbs Fat
1 egg 8 1 5
bread 5 19 1
Turkey bacon 2 slices 5 0 3
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
tilapia 23 0 1
Green beans 1/2 cup 1 4 0
protein 52 8 4
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
chicken breast 22 0 3
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
protein 52 8 4
Total 209 64 44.5
Calories 836 256 400.5 1492.5

Wednesday Protein Carbs Fat
Milk 1/2 cup 4 5.5 2.5
Oatmeal 1/2 cup 2.95 14.05 1.8
protein 52 8 4
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
1/2 baked potatoe 1 12 0.1
chicken breast 44 0 6
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
protein 52 8 4
tilapia 46 0 2
Green beans 1/2 cup 1 4 0
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
total 232.95 69.55 41.4
calories 931.8 278.2 372.6 1582.6


Thursday Protein Carbs Fat
Egg whites 1/2 cup 12 2 0
Turkey breast (4 slices) 10 3 1.5
bread 5 19 1
protein 52 8 4
Brown rice 1 cup 5 46 1.6
Pork Loin (3 oz) 24.3 0 8.2
protein 52 8 4
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
Chicken quesadilla 40 34 8
cottage cheese x 2 22 12 5
Total 230.3 138 49.3
calories 921.2 552 197.2 1670.4

Friday Protein Carbs Fat
Egg 8 1 5
Turkey bacon 2 slices 5 0 3
chicken breast 44 0 6
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
Chicken quesadilla 40 34 8
protein 52 8 4
protein 52 8 4
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
tilapia 23 0 1
Green beans 1/2 cup 1 4 0
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
total 255 73 52
calories 1020 292 208 1520

Saturday Protein Carbs Fat
Egg whites 1/2 cup 12 2 0
Turkey breast (4 slices) 10 3 1.5
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
chicken breast 44 0 6
Pork Loin (3 oz) 24.3 0 8.2
protein 26 4 2
cottage cheese 11 6 2.5
protein 52 8 4
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
total 198.3 35 42.7
calories 793.2 140 170.8 1104

Sunday Protein Carbs Fat
Oatmeal 1/2 cup & 1/2 cup milk 5.9 28.1 3.6
Turkey breast (4 slices) 10 3 1.5
protein 52 8 4
Chicken quesadilla 40 34 8
Pork Loin (3 oz) 24.3 0 8.2
Sweet potatoe 2 24 0.2
protein 52 8 4
Peanut butter 2tbs 8 6 16
Total 194.2 111.1 45.5
calories 776.8 444.4 182 1403.2

Now some of you might think” You are not eating enough”! and I say I works Perfect for me! I do not want to be Jay Cutler (although I would not mind looking like Dexter Jackson :) I want to be fit, I want to look better than the average 40 year old. I keep muscle and don’t accumulate unnecessary fat.

I feel good. I am goal driven, this is my goal and although I have reached this goal several times, it is my drive. I get blood test done as well as a physical. Both come back 100% EVERY TIME! I have enough energy to wear off my 9 and 17 year old sons and still have quality time with the lady. I am good to go… every time. This is what I consider “Quality of life”.

I found out that I need to keep a higher percentage of Protein. I can always play around with Fats and Carbs. Actually I’ve found out that for the purpose of “leaning out”, carbs are not necessary for me as long as I balance my protein/fat intake.


In closing:

I check my BF% monthly (you can use a caliper for quick reference). This allows me to know if I am heading in the right direction or if I need to make an adjustment. I go by how I feel as well as blood tests and annual check ups. I make sure I keep a balance in my life (this in the past has brought negative side effects). I don’t sweat the small stuff. I make sure I spend quality time with my family. Not just my kids but my wife. This is important as I need their support and understanding and they need mine as well. I do not deprive myself of certain things but I keep everything “balanced”.

When the kids are not around I make sure to have a good time with the wife. This could be going out, walking the dogs and just talking, having a few drinks, movies, dinner or just hanging out at home. Again, I don’t deprive myself but I keep things in-check.

God bless.
 
dang!! thanks for taking the time to type all of that out!! much appreciated!! sounds like you have dialed you and your lifestyle in to meet your needs!!

God Bless you as well!
 
Diet can be extremely effective. I believe in a gradual reduction in fast carbs to just veggies.
This includes fruit and all flour products. Take a year.

I did this once and got so lean it was scary.

I wish I had that discipline....another month i have something stressful going on, then I can focus on getting stricter...I train right, supplement right, eat ok but not strict enough to get ripped up with my current health condition....bye bye are the old days I was lean even if I cheated here and there and did a few slack weeks of wings and beer every now and again...now it looks like I really need to buckle down to even come close to where I used to be...

any easy to prep veggie ideas or how you did the veggie only thing with what kinds, etc, Im all ears...
 
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