Just got this email from a buddy of mine hanging out in Sweden

[redsamurai]

First, you've implied two different concepts, one of fad/fashion (which is completely mutable in time), and one of physical attractiveness (which is MARGINALLY transitory in time, but DOES have a common denominator in our western culture-that of the Greek Idea of Perfection). Whether you like it or not, you and everyone on this board are *Owned* by the quest to attain this ideal.

You obviously haven't read many of my posts.........honestly, I came here because of the whole internet steroids thing. I like to lift heavy weights and make marked improvements in my strength year to year. I didn't come here to inquire about the virtues of waxing my eyebrows. I have my own ideal...........and "to my detriment"........it makes me intimidating and unattractive to the average woman. But it's who I am..........and I'm not altering myself or my physical goals to the whims of women. I mean, you'd be changing shit up every month if you tailored yourself to what you "perceived" women want in a man. That is why I offer NO PRETENSE about myself............EVER!!! I am who I am...........like it or leave it. You're correct in saying that men are going down this same path............BUT IT"S A NEGATIVE!!! And one day when women wake up and their man is trying on their heels..............well....................that'll be a day won't it?

As for the passing of a fad, and following said definition of whichever fad (false eyelashes, Clara Bow lips, permed hair, blue eyeshadow), you fail to understand a basic human need as a social animal: assimilation with a group, REGARDLESS of YOUR personal opinion on THEIR ritual

.


I perfectly understand the need.........I feel it myself at times. But I resist because I wish to keep my individuality. It's a "pull to the mean"......do you understand that? Look at your wording..........."assimiliation"..........that about sums it up. Why would anyone want to wholly "assimilate" into a group of people is beyond me. We're always going to share certain traits with this group or that.............but wouldn't you want to "strive" to be different in some ways? Obviously when it comes to base functions of existence we're going to assimilate in certain aspects so we can survive and support each other.

What I can't figure out is why it pisses you off so much, surely you have more pressing issues (and that was purely rhetorical, I really am not interested in your personal problems).

It's an internet chat board freulein...........when you are here typing on this board, by definition you do not have "more pressing issues"..........otherwise you wouldn't be here. This is a place for such discussions........and I didn't even start this thread. Remember this quote?

Seriously, would it kill you to compose paragraphs? Oh yeah, and generalisms never make for a strong argument. Merry Christmas

surely you had more pressing issues than to come to this chat board and nose your way into this discussion..............

1) it is far from arbitrary and capricious. It is a science of marketing.

which it makes it arbitrary and capricious by definition

2) Provide proof that gay men are the sole barometers of what women should look like in any given period

.


I admit I have no proof...............just circumstantial evidence from watching the E channel and seeing nothing but gay men whenever they go to fashion shows. I'm not 100% on this one.........but isn't the fashion and makeup industry "predominantly" owned by effite men? Maybe I'm just connecting my own dots............but women in the fashion industry tend not to look like women but look like androgenous and malnutritioned naifs.

Of course I want to be valued for what I am as a moral being and as a creative spirit rather than what I look like, but it is a biological fact that EVERYONE is attracted to the Suprabeautiful.

define "suprabeautiful"?? Are there blueprints I can look at? What are the perfect dimensions for a woman?

That is your preference, you are entitled to seek it. The status quo is the status quo, no one forces you to stay within it's parameter, but those who choose to, who are they bothering?

If that is who they are, that is who they are. What is distressing is the pull that the status quo has. Status quo means "no change", ie stagnation. It is death to a society.

Again, if people choose to get enhancements, that is a personal choice and

if it makes them feel better about themselves and their interaction with peers in their social groups

, then more power to them.

and that is the problem with social groups. A person must get "enhancements" to feel better amongst their social group? To me that is the decay of the fabric of the human spirit. It's not a problem with the individual, it's a problem with the group that doesn't value diversity. Again, defects are one thing........but take breast augmentation. Small breast are not a defect.........but this society has turned it in to one, and you know this to be true. The human function of breasts can be achieved with small or large bosoms...........but in this society, we've turned them into something more.

Don't fool yourself, RS. Men *pretend* to have bigger bank (what THEY are valued for in our society) than they do.

<sigh> again, I think you've not read many posts of mine.........otherwise you'd understand I'm perfectly aware of this. In fact, I'm probably much more aware of the deeper linings of this than you are or will ever be. We also pretend to have bigger cocks don't we? Yes........men are being broken down too............i get it...............I get it more than you ever will. Like I've been trying to get across to you...........I was never singling women out in the first place. It may have come across like that...........but those who know me would be the first to tell you I come down on men WAY harder than I do on women.

You need to get out and hug a tree, seriously, because it truly is a beautiful world

.



Yes, it is a beautiful "world"............but we're not. As it stands right now...........we are indisputably the ugliest creature on this planet and really the "known" universe. Maybe that will change someday..........but as of right now, it's fact.

 

[LuluDeren]

You obviously haven't read many of my posts.........honestly, I came here because of the whole internet steroids thing. I like to lift heavy weights and make marked improvements in my strength year to year.

Er, registration at Elite doesn't require me to know you, or your posts, from Adam's. Although I DO remember your thread describing your buffoonery at a Baptism.

I don't know if you're implying you use steroids or not to attain this ideal physique, but *if* you do, then you're practicing exactly what you're railing against.

I didn't come here to inquire about the virtues of waxing my eyebrows. I have my own ideal...........and "to my detriment"........it makes me intimidating and unattractive to the average woman. But it's who I am..........and I'm not altering myself or my physical goals to the whims of women. I mean, you'd be changing shit up every month if you tailored yourself to what you "perceived" women want in a man. That is why I offer NO PRETENSE about myself............EVER!!! I am who I am...........like it or leave it. You're correct in saying that men are going down this same path............BUT IT"S A NEGATIVE!!! And one day when women wake up and their man is trying on their heels..............well....................that'll be a day won't it?

I'm sorry to hear you feel you're unattractive to the average woman. Nothing to argue with the rest of your passage.

I perfectly understand the need.........I feel it myself at times. But I resist because I wish to keep my individuality. It's a "pull to the mean"......do you understand that

Please, stop making assumptions about my comprehension. Your words are far from revolutionary.

Look at your wording..........."assimiliation"..........that about sums it up. Why would anyone want to wholly "assimilate" into a group of people is beyond me. We're always going to share certain traits with this group or that.............but wouldn't you want to "strive" to be different in some ways? Obviously when it comes to base functions of existence we're going to assimilate in certain aspects so we can survive and support each other.

People who need people are the luckiest people in the world.

Like it or not RS, the minute you come screaming down the birth canal, you are being 'assimilated'.

Everyone wants to be 'exceptional', but I don't think (most) people would express something so esoteric in the choice of radical eyeshadow color...and really, if they do, so what??

It's an internet chat board freulein...........when you are here typing on this board, by definition you do not have "more pressing issues"..........otherwise you wouldn't be here. This is a place for such discussions........and I didn't even start this thread. Remember this quote?

So, you don't have more pressing issues then whining about bar chicks who all look alike? Christmas is coming, have you finished all your shopping?

surely you had more pressing issues than to come to this chat board and nose your way into this discussion..............

Nose my way-lol. Yes, it is an internet chat board, and I have the same right as you to comment, within board regulations, on any thread here. I wouldn't qualify your initial post as discourse meant to provoke debate...you made declarations with an underpinning to incite.

1) I can assure you that although popular standards of defining *beauty* is quite transitory, it is far from arbitrary and capricious. It is a science of marketing.

which it makes it arbitrary and capricious by definition

???wha?
I don't think you understood what I said. Consider any past definition of *popular* ie transitory, (contemporaneous) beauty and you will discover there was some school of aesthetics behind it.

I admit I have no proof...............just circumstantial evidence from watching the E channel and seeing nothing but gay men whenever they go to fashion shows.

Holy hell, you watch E? BTW, you do realize I was being facetious when I asked for proof? Your contention was silly and I don't intend on arguing whether women are dress up dolls for gay men.

I'm not 100% on this one.........but isn't the fashion and makeup industry "predominantly" owned by effite men? Maybe I'm just connecting my own dots............but women in the fashion industry tend not to look like women but look like androgenous and malnutritioned naifs.

I have no idea and I'm certainly not going to research it. Androgynous and malnurished models are a totally seperate issue...the industry has decided that courture looks best on a subject where it can be *draped*. There are many, many social, cultural, and even moral issues intertwined with that discipline/industry/vocation.

define "suprabeautiful"?? Are there blueprints I can look at? What are the perfect dimensions for a woman?

Something beyond beautiful. James Joyce refers to *it* as aesthetic arrest upon witness. As for perfect proportion, in tangible form, and considering our historical heritage, the Greek Ideal is what we consider *perfect*. True perfection would be immutable.

If that is who they are, that is who they are. What is distressing is the pull that the status quo has. Status quo means "no change", ie stagnation. It is death to a society.

Status Quo simply means , 'the existing state of affairs'. There is no malevolent connotation in that description unless it were attached to say, a fascist state or something

and that is the problem with social groups. A person must get "enhancements" to feel better amongst their social group?

No one forces plastic surgery on anyone, lol. If a person becomes more sociable because they have a healthier self-image after an elective procedure, I would never stand in judgement of their choice.

To me that is the decay of the fabric of the human spirit. It's not a problem with the individual, it's a problem with the group that doesn't value diversity. Again, defects are one thing........but take breast augmentation. Small breast are not a defect.........but this society has turned it in to one, and you know this to be true. The human function of breasts can be achieved with small or large bosoms...........but in this society, we've turned them into something more.

What can I say? You're entitled to your opinion. Boobies have always signified more than a biological function, just like big, red ruby lips mean way more than 'Kiss me, I'm irish'.

<sigh> again, I think you've not read many posts of mine.........otherwise you'd understand I'm perfectly aware of this. In fact, I'm probably much more aware of the deeper linings of this than you are or will ever be. We also pretend to have bigger cocks don't we? Yes........men are being broken down too............i get it...............I get it more than you ever will. Like I've been trying to get across to you...........I was never singling women out in the first place. It may have come across like that...........but those who know me would be the first to tell you I come down on men WAY harder than I do on women.

With so many members on this board, I don't keep track of individual posts and member's personal philosophies. Honestly, you seem pretty normal, you struggle with the same existential questions many of us have considered.

Yes, it is a beautiful "world"............but we're not. As it stands right now...........we are indisputably the ugliest creature on this planet and really the "known" universe. Maybe that will change someday..........but as of right now, it's fact.

Then we can agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Spartacus]

pics of redsamaurie ?

 

[LuluDeren]

pics of redsamaurie ?

Are you asking me if I want some or if I have some?

 

[heavy_duty]

coles notes?

 

[redsamurai]

I don't know if you're implying you use steroids or not to attain this ideal physique, but *if* you do, then you're practicing exactly what you're railing against.

The point I was trying to get across was that I don't take steroids and lift weights for women........because in all honesty they could give a fuck. So if I was to tailor myself to what women found attractive........I wouldn't be 265 pounds. In fact, i'd grow my hair out and put a blond streak down the middle and act "vaguely" homosexual...........that seems to be the kicker these days.....

I'm sorry to hear you feel you're unattractive to the average woman. Nothing to argue with the rest of your passage.

Again, making the point that I "KNOW" that I'm unattractive to women but despite that I still stay firm to "who I am". It's called "principal"..........which I have in spades.

Please, stop making assumptions about my comprehension. Your words are far from revolutionary.

never said anything about my words being "revolutionary".......well, for this place they are.....but I digress. However, there is a disconnect somewhere. There "IS" a problem with your comprehension of what I'm trying to get across.......that's obvious over the last few interactions. But the fault may very well be mine.............I admit that.

Like it or not RS, the minute you come screaming down the birth canal, you are being 'assimilated'.

again......I know this...........but I find it to be a "negative". Assimilation always means losing part of your individuality..........which to me is a negative.

So, you don't have more pressing issues then whining about bar chicks who all look alike? Christmas is coming, have you finished all your shopping?

A) THat comment was in response to one of your posts. When I start a thread grousing about the homogeneity of the average barfly's..........than your retort "may" have some relevance.

B) Christmas shopping?? I hope that was facetiousness........otherwise I should remind you that I am the living incarnation of the The grinch..........or scrooge............but scrooge was a jew, and I'm definitely not a jew. So I guess that makes me the grinch.......

Nose my way-lol. Yes, it is an internet chat board, and I have the same right as you to comment, within board regulations, on any thread here. I wouldn't qualify your initial post as discourse meant to provoke debate...you made declarations with an underpinning to incite.

A) yes you do have the same right to comment.........but was it not you who asked me first if I had more pressing issues than to be whining about this or that? And did I not make the same argument to you that this an internet chatboard where NO ONE has more pressing issues than to be putzing about in this place.

B) my original post was in response to someone other than you.........and an underpinning to "incite"?? Pretty much you're the only one who's been "incited"...........and I beleive I made note of that earlier to which you told me to take my psychoanalysis and stick in somewhere...........

Holy hell, you watch E? BTW, you do realize I was being facetious when I asked for proof?

only in passing

Your contention was silly and I don't intend on arguing whether women are dress up dolls for gay men

.


I understand why you wouldn't want to debate that.........but there is "some" underpinning of truth to it, whether you admit or not.

I have no idea and I'm certainly not going to research it. Androgynous and malnurished models are a totally seperate issue...the industry has decided that courture looks best on a subject where it can be *draped*. There are many, many social, cultural, and even moral issues intertwined with that discipline/industry/vocation.

It's actually not a seperate issue when those body types are held up as ideals when the average redblooded male isn't quite sure what he's looking at when he see's it. Every woman I've ever dated or had a relationship with was in someway shape or form affected by this ideal and let it somehow manifest itself in the relationship. If women are never content with the way they look because they are bombarded everyday with an image that, uncoincidentally, they need to spend money to achieve...........than I just don't see anything positive from that.

Something beyond beautiful. James Joyce refers to *it* as aesthetic arrest upon witness. As for perfect proportion, in tangible form, and considering our historical heritage, the Greek Ideal is what we consider *perfect*. True perfection would be immutable.

"aesthetic arrest upon witness" huh? Oh well......

Status Quo simply means , 'the existing state of affairs'. There is no malevolent connotation in that description unless it were attached to say, a fascist state or something

there is malevolent connotation........you just don't see it. It's become a bit more insidious than a silly mustched man pounding his fist into the pulpit.....

No one forces plastic surgery on anyone, lol. If a person becomes more sociable because they have a healthier self-image after an elective procedure, I would never stand in judgement of their choice.

\


People can do as they wish......it's their "inalienable" right to do with themselves as they choose. But it doesn't make it any less sad that someone alters themself to achieve a "healthier self image" in relation to their social group. It's a condemnation of the social group.

What can I say? You're entitled to your opinion. Boobies have always signified more than a biological function, just like big, red ruby lips mean way more than 'Kiss me, I'm irish'.

So you're self worth is centered on your boobies? And what else do full red lips signify.

With so many members on this board, I don't keep track of individual posts and member's personal philosophies. Honestly, you seem pretty normal, you struggle with the same existential questions many of us have considered.

In my journeys.......I haven't crossed too many people that have even remotely considered some of these questions. It's too hard for people........people don't want to be uncomfortable. Unfortunately, we're going to have to face these questions........and soon. Our society is in decay because people gave up thinking.

 

[LuluDeren]

The point I was trying to get across was that I don't take steroids and lift weights for women........because in all honesty they could give a fuck. So if I was to tailor myself to what women found attractive........I wouldn't be 265 pounds. In fact, i'd grow my hair out and put a blond streak down the middle and act "vaguely" homosexual...........that seems to be the kicker these days.....

This will be my last post in response to you. You're not as clever as you think, and your propensity for evangelistic condescension is grating.

If you use extraordinary (artifical) measure to self-improve, on a practical scale, you are in the same boat...no one cares what your personal philosophy is.

Again, making the point that I "KNOW" that I'm unattractive to women but despite that I still stay firm to "who I am". It's called "principal"..........which I have in spades.

Good for you. I happen to know the definiton of principal. If I wanted I could have had my artistic endeavours financed tenfold, but I choose to earn it, so don't assume I know nothing about principal.

never said anything about my words being "revolutionary".......well, for this place they are.....but I digress. However, there is a disconnect somewhere. There "IS" a problem with your comprehension of what I'm trying to get across.......that's obvious over the last few interactions. But the fault may very well be mine.............I admit that.

You assume too much...again.

again......I know this...........but I find it to be a "negative". Assimilation always means losing part of your individuality..........which to me is a negative.

Just a couple of old adages for you: 'No man's an island', 'You are the sum of your ancestors', and 'your rights end where my nose begins'. We are all bound by certain cultural and social mores which supercede *some* individual rights. The only circumstance where you (may) be immune to such 'assimilation' ,is your own state, and even there you'd be bound by laws of world citizenship. Someday you'll recognize the absolute freedom you have to express your individuality when given parameters....it's a true paradox, but it is very real.

A) THat comment was in response to one of your posts. When I start a thread grousing about the homogeneity of the average barfly's..........than your retort "may" have some relevance.

B) Christmas shopping?? I hope that was facetiousness........otherwise I should remind you that I am the living incarnation of the The grinch..........or scrooge............but scrooge was a jew, and I'm definitely not a jew. So I guess that makes me the grinch.......

Well, Happy Holidays, regardless.

A) yes you do have the same right to comment.........but was it not you who asked me first if I had more pressing issues than to be whining about this or that? And did I not make the same argument to you that this an internet chatboard where NO ONE has more pressing issues than to be putzing about in this place.

B) my original post was in response to someone other than you.........and an underpinning to "incite"?? Pretty much you're the only one who's been "incited"...........and I beleive I made note of that earlier to which you told me to take my psychoanalysis and stick in somewhere[...........

I believe I said I never take net psychoanalysis seriously, but take what you will from it

I understand why you wouldn't want to debate that.........but there is "some" underpinning of truth to it, whether you admit or not.

lol, like I said, 'silly'. It's really not relevent if I care to admit it one way or the other.

It's actually not a seperate issue when those body types are held up as ideals when the average redblooded male isn't quite sure what he's looking at when he see's it. Every woman I've ever dated or had a relationship with was in someway shape or form affected by this ideal and let it somehow manifest itself in the relationship. If women are never content with the way they look because they are bombarded everyday with an image that, uncoincidentally, they need to spend money to achieve...........than I just don't see anything positive from that.

I should have been clearer. I meant I'm not going to get into this debate because it's quite clear that courture model imagery is devastating.

"aesthetic arrest upon witness" huh? Oh well......

See, I'm not going to respond to this because you would rather ridicule than research.

there is malevolent connotation........you just don't see it. It's become a bit more insidious than a silly mustched man pounding his fist into the pulpit.....

Again with the assumptions, have you ever considered this particular trait of yours may repel some women?

People can do as they wish......it's their "inalienable" right to do with themselves as they choose. But it doesn't make it any less sad that someone alters themself to achieve a "healthier self image" in relation to their social group. It's a condemnation of the social group.

In your opinion. Self improvement has nothing to do with condemnation of a social group...in fact that statement is seriously bizarre.

So you're self worth is centered on your boobies? And what else do full red lips signify.

LOLOL, I'm not sure if you're using some kind of translator but how you got that from my passage is hysterical. I was making no reference to my person. I said, 'Boobies have always signified more than a biological function'..that is a fact of sign and signifier.

In my journeys.......I haven't crossed too many people that have even remotely considered some of these questions. It's too hard for people........people don't want to be uncomfortable. Unfortunately, we're going to have to face these questions........and soon. Our society is in decay because people gave up thinking.

Sorry you run with such a stupid crowd.

Okay, it's been fun RS, but I won't continue this dialogue. I believe it's run it's course-and the text, redundant. Thank you and happy holidays.

 

[rudeboyja]

American, sweedish-- whatever. Pussy taste like chicken wherever in the world you are.

 

[redsamurai]

This will be my last post in response to you. You're not as clever as you think, and your propensity for evangelistic condescension is grating.

go back and read your first post if you want to talk about "condescension"........ jesus christ.......talk about the pot and the kettle.

If you use extraordinary (artifical) measure to self-improve, on a practical scale, you are in the same boat...no one cares what your personal philosophy is.

One is not in the same boat if one is "self improving" based on one's own individual goals. I'm not trying to bench 400 pounds cause everyone around me is. There's no "group assimilation" in that. Again, if I was succumbing to the status quo.......I probably wouldn't be going to the gym at all.

Good for you. I happen to know the definiton of principal. If I wanted I could have had my artistic endeavours financed tenfold, but I choose to earn it, so don't assume I know nothing about principal.

when I said "I" had pricipal there was no implication in a lack of such on your part.

Just a couple of old adages for you: 'No man's an island', 'You are the sum of your ancestors', and 'your rights end where my nose begins'. We are all bound by certain cultural and social mores which supercede *some* individual rights. The only circumstance where you (may) be immune to such 'assimilation' ,is your own state, and even there you'd be bound by laws of world citizenship. Someday you'll recognize the absolute freedom you have to express your individuality when given parameters....it's a true paradox, but it is very real.

what a relief I don't live my life on "old adages". There's an old adage that say's if I yank on my johnson too much, I'll go blind..............well.............I still see fine thank you very much!!

In your opinion. Self improvement has nothing to do with condemnation of a social group...in fact that statement is seriously bizarre.

Last time..........since you're not going to respond anyway.........so let me be very very very clear. There is nothing wrong with "self improvement" IF....and only IF........it is what is truly inside you to be. Is getting bigger boobs "self improvement"...........one can only argue that it is when you take into account that a woman is only getting bigger boobs so that men will stare at their chests more. Bigger boobs may give a woman some "semblance" of self confidence..........but it isn't real. Because ironically men take women with bigger boobs less seriously.............but find her more attractive for some bizarre reason. So in this case..........this self improvement you're speaking of is only because of group pressure. And in this case IT IS negative. So that's why it is a condemnation of the group because why should the group change it's behavior toward someone for something so silly as fleshy appendages. Yes.........it is a fact of life that women with bigger boobs get more attention...............but is that a positive? To you apparently it is..........I for one would not treat two women differently based solely on the size of their breasts..........but in reality this isn't the case with "this group"...........and I find that very sad, as should everyone if they really gave it thought. I guaranfuckingtee you that there are women on this board that will agree with this 100%.

You may call this more condescension.......fine, I don't care. But how you can be aware of what these pressures in this country do to women, ESPECIALLY litte girls..........and not find it repellant is beyond me. You seem fine with coexisting in the box...........and that's fine, your perogative. But I refuse NOT to look down on people that do this. And yes, that is condescending...........so be it. But the world is "in fact".......a very, very, very ugly place. When you see 12 year old girls starting to fluster themselves with makeup and dressing like Britney Spears............don't even fucking begin to tell me that there's nothing wrong with that. And I know you're going to write "I wasn't saying it was"...........but if you reread your posts, you are infact "apologizing" this phenomena. So I've never made myself out to be "clever".......this isn't about cleverness.......it's just life. So try taking some time out of your day to actually observe people and how they interact with each other..........take some time out of your day to record all the messages that you're being blitzed with on a daily basis. If you do that and can still think that's there's nothing negative about what's going on around us..................than my hats off to you............I got nothin more.


So just to quickly get back to the topic of this thread.... ........I was agreeing with Lumberg that I too would prefer a strong female that doesn't back down and can put me in my place when need be. My point was just that there aren't too many "truly" strong women.....meaning emotionally, intellectually and spiritually.........in america. If there was any bitterness on my part is that I havent' found one yet...........but there was no bitterness towards women in general. In fact, if anything I have complete and abject sympathy for women in this society for the myriad of reasons that have already been discussed in the last 2-3 pages.

Okay, it's been fun RS, but I won't continue this dialogue. I believe it's run it's course-and the text, redundant. Thank you and happy holidays.

it's been a gas

 

[LuluDeren]

go back and read your first post if you want to talk about "condescension"........ jesus christ.......talk about the pot and the kettle.






One is not in the same boat if one is "self improving" based on one's own individual goals. I'm not trying to bench 400 pounds cause everyone around me is. There's no "group assimilation" in that. Again, if I was succumbing to the status quo.......I probably wouldn't be going to the gym at all.





when I said "I" had pricipal there was no implication in a lack of such on your part.






what a relief I don't live my life on "old adages". There's an old adage that say's if I yank on my johnson too much, I'll go blind..............well.............I still see fine thank you very much!!












Last time..........since you're not going to respond anyway.........so let me be very very very clear. There is nothing wrong with "self improvement" IF....and only IF........it is what is truly inside you to be. Is getting bigger boobs "self improvement"...........one can only argue that it is when you take into account that a woman is only getting bigger boobs so that men will stare at their chests more. Bigger boobs may give a woman some "semblance" of self confidence..........but it isn't real. Because ironically men take women with bigger boobs less seriously.............but find her more attractive for some bizarre reason. So in this case..........this self improvement you're speaking of is only because of group pressure. And in this case IT IS negative. So that's why it is a condemnation of the group because why should the group change it's behavior toward someone for something so silly as fleshy appendages. Yes.........it is a fact of life that women with bigger boobs get more attention...............but is that a positive? To you apparently it is..........I for one would not treat two women differently based solely on the size of their breasts..........but in reality this isn't the case with "this group"...........and I find that very sad, as should everyone if they really gave it thought. I guaranfuckingtee you that there are women on this board that will agree with this 100%.

You may call this more condescension.......fine, I don't care. But how you can be aware of what these pressures in this country do to women, ESPECIALLY litte girls..........and not find it repellant is beyond me. You seem fine with coexisting in the box...........and that's fine, your perogative. But I refuse NOT to look down on people that do this. And yes, that is condescending...........so be it. But the world is "in fact".......a very, very, very ugly place. When you see 12 year old girls starting to fluster themselves with makeup and dressing like Britney Spears............don't even fucking begin to tell me that there's nothing wrong with that. And I know you're going to write "I wasn't saying it was"...........but if you reread your posts, you are infact "apologizing" this phenomena. So I've never made myself out to be "clever".......this isn't about cleverness.......it's just life. So try taking some time out of your day to actually observe people and how they interact with each other..........take some time out of your day to record all the messages that you're being blitzed with on a daily basis. If you do that and can still think that's there's nothing negative about what's going on around us..................than my hats off to you............I got nothin more.


So just to quickly get back to the topic of this thread.... ........I was agreeing with Lumberg that I too would prefer a strong female that doesn't back down and can put me in my place when need be. My point was just that there aren't too many "truly" strong women.....meaning emotionally, intellectually and spiritually.........in america. If there was any bitterness on my part is that I havent' found one yet...........but there was no bitterness towards women in general. In fact, if anything I have complete and abject sympathy for women in this society for the myriad of reasons that have already been discussed in the last 2-3 pages.








it's been a gas

You are judgemental and misconstrue passages to fit your agenda. You can opine all you want and commiserate with your peer group on the (lack of)quality in womanhood. If women want to have elective surgery to improve their looks either to impress a man or to have a better self-image, who are you to sit in judgement?

I'm happy with what nature gave me, but if I weren't, I wouldn't think twice about available options.

As for me living contently in a box (god, please banish this sad idiom), I can assure you, I've done things and created things you couldn't even imagine. See, I prefer to speak through my accomplishments rather than my image...ironic isn't it?

What's this about he who protests too much?