Just got this email from a buddy of mine hanging out in Sweden

[LuluDeren]

Whatsa matta? You getting senile or something? I'm the banana girl...with banana issues.

 

[jnevin]

A cheeseburger sounds pretty fucking good right meow.

 

[redsamurai]

That there, is a blatant generalization and unless you can provide empirical evidence from all corners of the states that a 'good woman' ISN'T the norm, then your assessment is simply your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

see, you didn't understand my post like I said. I wasn't implying IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM that good women were hard to find. There's "good" women everywhere. Maybe I'm at fault here for not being clear enough? My original point was that women in this country have "allowed" themselves to be owned by a set of relativistic standards that relegate them to having a sense of self centered around "relative" and ever vassilatting standards of physical attractiveness INSTEAD of just being themselves which to me is unimaginably more attractive. Am I clear now? This wasn't a woman bashing post. This wasn't "cunt this" "cunt that"......gold digger this and that bullshit.

As for the "generalization".........the numbers speak for themselves. If women weren't caught up in arbitrary standards of beauty that are dictated to them by, ironically enough, gay men.............than they wouldn't spend collectively BILLIONS of dollars on trying to make themselves "fit to the norm".

Absolutely. Because THAT is how they are valued. And don't tell me what I can or cannot do, it's not a very attractive quality in a man.

so were in agreement right? You do see this as a "negative"..........right?

As well, the *idea* of beauty is transitory, and 'beautification' is not singularly gender-specific.

the idea of beautifying yourself is fine.........but do so in a manner in which you still retain self identity. Otherwise..........you're sheep. My point about girls in a bar looking the same is that they all wear the same shit and put the same makeup on.............hence they all practically look the same. Some of the most attractive women "to me" that I've ever seen fall completely out of the norm................but that's because I value individuality. After awhile............the norm simply becomes synonomous with mediocrity.

There is already a marked jump in cosmetic procedures for men (that is a fact).

you're 100% right. And uncoincidentally............there's very few "men" left in the world (this is also a fact). I have no problem with someone having a procedure to correct a defect or something like that. But some of the procedure out there are so trite and petty that they can only be the product of a society that ruthlessly passes out it's arbitrary standards of beauty that people with "slightly off" facial geometrics are having their entire faces redone............that's out of control. I'm not even that big on breast implants................don't even tell me that women would be getting those if it weren't for the rampant male infantilism that drives them to drooling at the sight of garishly overblown silicone flotation devices.

I'm willing to bet the more economically self actualized a woman becomes, the more she will seek physical perfection in her mate simply because part of the (main) pre-requisites for a potential mate may not be one of financial support (and when THAT happens, you'll see ManVogue and MOG's-lol ). So this 'industry' makes money off telling EVERYONE they're not good enough, not just women.

I guess congratulations are in order then. WOmen will simply build on top of the faults of men.......wonderful. Instead of being "maybe" the more sensible side of the species and possibly bringing some hope back the purity of the male/female union, to which there currently is none............nope!! They'll just be the ones perpetrating the bullshit. Makes one real hopeful for the world.

No, because...
A) I really don't care about the bemoanings and bitchings of a group of bar guys.
B) If it's true that all the bar girls look alike, then it has more to do with strategy. The ladies are aware of what 'sells' based on popular consensus...so what?

So instead of presenting themselves as who they really are........they'd rather sell themselves on "popular consensus"?? Again, how wonderful. It is absolutely no wonder our society is so washed out character wise............everyone is pandering to the popular consensus.

 

[Spartacus]

you think american women have a "sense of self"?? Look, just because you may have found a good one.....let's be completely frank here. With of course some exceptions.........american women are OWNED by their insecurities. There's a multi BILLION dollar industry that is set up around women and their "LACK" of a sense of self. I would absolutely love to find a woman with the qualities that you're speaking of........and I think alot of the guys here would too. The point is that women from "Some" foreign countries are actually more powerful than the women here. When was the last time, besides your wife.........that you ran into a woman that could give a fuck about what people thought about her?? Jesus man........women don't even want to walk out of the house without 3 layers of war paint on their face. That's of course got alot to do with men and the kind of throwaway society that we men have built in the U.S........but that's another discussion. So Nay..........I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment of women in this country..............but I am sympathetic to them. There's a very good reason why I will NEVER raise children anywhere in the states.........either boys or girls. I won't capitalism raise my children.

no wonder red doesn't have an avatar
avatars are commercialism

 

[redsamurai]

no wonder red doesn't have an avatar
avatars are commercialism

no, it's a plat thing.

 

[javaguru]

no wonder red doesn't have an avatar
avatars are commercialism

Wiminzes are the primary consumers in our society, that is a fact, most mainstream marketing is directed at wiminz. That isn't to say that marketing attractiveness to men isn't effective, look at the meterosexual movement. A girlfriend of mine once confided in me that she purchased menz jeans because they cost less than half as much as what she would pay for wiminz jeans. Look at popular sitcoms, idiotic husband and super smart wife....metrosexualism was a way to market to girly menz.

 

[redsamurai]

Wiminzes are the primary consumers in our society, that is a fact, most mainstream marketing is directed at wiminz. That isn't to say that marketing attractiveness to men isn't effective, look at the meterosexual movement. A girlfriend of mine once confided in me that she purchased menz jeans because they cost less than half as much as what she would pay for wiminz jeans. Look at popular sitcoms, idiotic husband and super smart wife....metrosexualism was a way to market to girly menz.

I don't have a problem with women being catered to commercially. But when it get's to the point where they are tailoring themselves to the whims of a cadre of homosexual men..........well.............what's the point? Why is that homo's get to dictate to women how to look? I mean..........isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[all the whey]

Wiminzes are the primary consumers in our society, that is a fact, most mainstream marketing is directed at wiminz. That isn't to say that marketing attractiveness to men isn't effective, look at the meterosexual movement. A girlfriend of mine once confided in me that she purchased menz jeans because they cost less than half as much as what she would pay for wiminz jeans. Look at popular sitcoms, idiotic husband and super smart wife....metrosexualism was a way to market to girly menz.

Almost everything is market to women on tv. (except sports etc) Even action movies have to have a love story in it.

Guys are such pussies now that they don't make decisions on what watch. So, no way are they going to make the decisions in major purchases.

 

[LuluDeren]

My original point was that women in this country have "allowed" themselves to be owned by a set of relativistic standards that relegate them to having a sense of self centered around "relative" and ever vassilatting standards of physical attractiveness INSTEAD of just being themselves which to me is unimaginably more attractive.

First, you've implied two different concepts, one of fad/fashion (which is completely mutable in time), and one of physical attractiveness (which is MARGINALLY transitory in time, but DOES have a common denominator in our western culture-that of the Greek Idea of Perfection). Whether you like it or not, you and everyone on this board are *Owned* by the quest to attain this ideal.

As for the passing of a fad, and following said definition of whichever fad (false eyelashes, Clara Bow lips, permed hair, blue eyeshadow), you fail to understand a basic human need as a social animal: assimilation with a group, REGARDLESS of YOUR personal opinion on THEIR ritual. What I can't figure out is why it pisses you off so much, surely you have more pressing issues (and that was purely rhetorical, I really am not interested in your personal problems).

If women weren't caught up in arbitrary standards of beauty that are dictated to them by, ironically enough, gay men.............than they wouldn't spend collectively BILLIONS of dollars on trying to make themselves "fit to the norm".

I don't even know how to respond to that, however...

1) I can assure you that although popular standards of defining *beauty* is quite transitory, it is far from arbitrary and capricious. It is a science of marketing.

2) Provide proof that gay men are the sole barometers of what women should look like in any given period.

so were in agreement right? You do see this as a "negative"..........right?

Of course I want to be valued for what I am as a moral being and as a creative spirit rather than what I look like, but it is a biological fact that EVERYONE is attracted to the Suprabeautiful. As rational beings, however, we are able to recognize beauty beyond physical features...and THAT is where I choose to cull my mate.

the idea of beautifying yourself is fine.........but do so in a manner in which you still retain self identity. Otherwise..........you're sheep. My point about girls in a bar looking the same is that they all wear the same shit and put the same makeup on.............hence they all practically look the same. Some of the most attractive women "to me" that I've ever seen fall completely out of the norm................but that's because I value individuality. After awhile............the norm simply becomes synonomous with mediocrity.

That is your preference, you are entitled to seek it. The status quo is the status quo, no one forces you to stay within it's parameter, but those who choose to, who are they bothering?

you're 100% right. And uncoincidentally............there's very few "men" left in the world (this is also a fact). I have no problem with someone having a procedure to correct a defect or something like that. But some of the procedure out there are so trite and petty that they can only be the product of a society that ruthlessly passes out it's arbitrary standards of beauty that people with "slightly off" facial geometrics are having their entire faces redone............that's out of control. I'm not even that big on breast implants................don't even tell me that women would be getting those if it weren't for the rampant male infantilism that drives them to drooling at the sight of garishly overblown silicone flotation devices.

Everyone's 'facial geometrics' are 'slightly off', that is a physical fact, most people don't even notice it and 99% of us don't seek reconstructive surgery because of it.

Again, if people choose to get enhancements, that is a personal choice and if it makes them feel better about themselves and their interaction with peers in their social groups, then more power to them.

I personally would never alter my face, but if I needed reconstructive surgery, I would thank the powers which be that I would have that option in this day and age.

I guess congratulations are in order then. WOmen will simply build on top of the faults of men.......wonderful. Instead of being "maybe" the more sensible side of the species and possibly bringing some hope back the purity of the male/female union, to which there currently is none............nope!! They'll just be the ones perpetrating the bullshit. Makes one real hopeful for the world.

LOL, I love your misconstruence of my passage. Regardless, women aren't precluded from nastiness simply because we are women. Hope for reconcliation between the sexes has to do with ALL participants, who are equally responsible for all deviations, past and present.

So instead of presenting themselves as who they really are........they'd rather sell themselves on "popular consensus"??

Don't fool yourself, RS. Men *pretend* to have bigger bank (what THEY are valued for in our society) than they do.

Again, how wonderful. It is absolutely no wonder our society is so washed out character wise............everyone is pandering to the popular consensus.

You need to get out and hug a tree, seriously, because it truly is a beautiful world.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Vulcan rubdown...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_PtPeRluQ

That's probably the best youtube link you've ever posted!!