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IT'S TIME!! Need Your Input

Silent Method

Silent Method

New member
Well, it's about that time again and I need some direction on my fourth cycle. The more I tried to plan, the less I became sure of.

My best cycle ever was 600mg of test for 14 weeks, 25-30mg of d-bol per day at four week intervals at the start and end of the cycle, and some low dose EQ for only a few weeks before the cycle.

Some notes...
*I'd really like to not have to fight with acne this time around, though I'm learning to control it better.

*I'm looking to pack on lelan muscle - period.

*I will not use fina in this cycle.

*I considered a simple gram of test with d-bol. I think it suits my needs - except for the acne issue.

*I have considered a EQ/d-bol stack.

*I am considering running 12 weeks minimum, and maybe up to 16 or even 20 weeks.


Ideas?
 
Silent what you have selected looks good,however you didn't say at what dosage you would be running the EQ,it intefers with the sex drive in some subjects,to be safe i would run it but throw in around 200 mg of test per wk.
:) RADAR
 
Just curious -- how much lean muscle did you keep from that "best" cycle you ever did?

And if you aren't that interested in bulking, why d-bol?
 
I got some of the same juice.....EQ, t400 and sus.......not sure how I'm gonna use it either....maybe toss some winny in the end for shitz and gigglez
 
This probably won't help you at all, but.......


I'm doing EOD day shots of 100mg test prop/100mg schering primo and this HAS to be the BEST cycle I've ever done as far as gaining lean mass....and I'm cutting right now...still gainign lean quality mass on top of it.

Primo & Test is the only things I will use in the future. 0 sides from the primo, hardly any from the low dose prop...can be ran for a LONG time no problem. Only problem is the primo gets expensive, but at 350mg/week it isn't *too* bad.....
 
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Nelson Montana said:
Just curious -- how much lean muscle did you keep from that "best" cycle you ever did?

And if you aren't that interested in bulking, why d-bol?
Click to expand...
#1. Calculating weight and bodyfat transition, I kept 10-12 pounds of lean muscle. Damn right it was the "best" cycle I ever did. (Sorry, I don't count the extra 12-15 pounds of water retention as "lost gains.")

#2. Please read my post. I am PRIMARILY interested in bulking. Hence the comment, "I'm looking to pack on lelan muscle - period."
 
Silent Method said:

#1. Calculating weight and bodyfat transition, I kept 10-12 pounds of lean muscle. Damn right it was the "best" cycle I ever did. (Sorry, I don't count the extra 12-15 pounds of water retention as "lost gains.")

#2. Please read my post. I am PRIMARILY interested in bulking. Hence the comment, "I'm looking to pack on lelan muscle - period."
Click to expand...

No flame bro but you could have made comparable gains on a cycle half as long and with half as much d-bol. The average gain from clients who have done my 3 week cycle plan is 8 pounds with no suppression.

But that's neither here or there.

You're looking for lean mass -- of course, who isn't? But my next question is; why worry about water weight? You can lose water. I find it perplexing that people will use all sorts of shit to prevent water bloat whe all they need to do is sweat and pee.

In regard to fat, I'd say that's more your diet than the actual drug choice.
 
Silent- You say your goal with this cycle is to bulk... right?

1.) Don't even consider Equipoise. Its not a bulking drug... at any dose.

2.) Use a simple stack of Test/D-Ball. You said it yourself... you respond well to both those steroids.

3.) You BETTER have taken a significant amount of time off between this and your last cycle. Its of paramount importance that your HTPA is recovered and your receptors are clean. If both those conditions are not met... the desired results of this cycle will not be nearly as distinct as you'd like them to be.

Peace,
Scott.
 
I like your idea of 1g of test. Just run it with some liquidex and hit the tanning booth and use deodorant soap to control acne...........AND DONT PICK YOUR ZITS! It only makes it worse, the scars on my back from rubbing them silly like a grizzly bear attest to that. Since I stopped playing with them no problems. Sure I get some good size welts but I just leave them alone and they go away........................galaxy
 
Nelson Montana said:


No flame bro but you could have made comparable gains on a cycle half as long and with half as much d-bol. The average gain from clients who have done my 3 week cycle plan is 8 pounds with no suppression.

But that's neither here or there.

You're looking for lean mass -- of course, who isn't? But my next question is; why worry about water weight? You can lose water. I find it perplexing that people will use all sorts of shit to prevent water bloat whe all they need to do is sweat and pee.

In regard to fat, I'd say that's more your diet than the actual drug choice.
Click to expand...
#1. As I said before, my 12 pound figure is a calculation of raw lean tissue - not the somewhat arbitrary number that may or may not be added to one's starting weight. (BTW, the 12 pound figure stands despite a significant period of detraining immediately post-cycle.)

Nelson, I'm really not trying to flame you here, but 8 pounds of pure lean muscle in three weeks = no go. If you truly have had practiced athletes grow and keep a new 8 pounds of true, pure muscle in 21 days you need to compile a team of scientists to document this physiological miracle. I'm not kidding here. Until such time I will have to consider your account as anecdotal amplification.

#2. Again, please read closer. I could not care much less about water weight gain during a cycle. Hell, I kind of like it. The point I was making was that I believe it's somewhat silly, when speaking of lean tissue gains, to say "yeah, I gained 30 pounds on that cycle but kept only 12," when the truth is that the muscle gain was 12 pounds to start with.

#3. Who brought up fat?
 
Thanks for everyone's input, including Nelson's. (Don't worry big guy, someday I'll hit a shortly cycle and let you know how I like it. On the other hand, hell, three weeks, very low (I wouldn't ever say no) suppression. If I so chose, I could do my full cycle after the three weeks... Tell you what, if you prescribe something I like, I do it, and I gain 8 pounds of lean tissue in 3 weeks, I'll buy your book and even put a plug in my sig. :) )

Scotty, sound advise. Use what works. It's been almost 6 months since my last cycle.

galaxy, that 1 gram, and some bol, looks like where I might be headed.

genarr4, I've considered EQ/Var, but the var is such a big hit in the pocketbook.

Same with primo for those of you who suggested it.

Fina gave me gyno symptoms, the results of which are still felt in one nip. No other compound has done this to me and I'm not looking to make this an experimental cycle for preventatives.

Some prop instead of looong esters is an idea.
 
Silient: I think we're more on the same page than you realize.

I too don't consider water weight as "gain" but that's exactly the misperception a lot of guys make. That's why creatine is popular, post cycle. It puts back the water! (Muscles do look fuller when you retain a little water).

So the question must be repeated -- what do you mean by "lean" muscle? ALL muscle is lean! If you aren't concerned with bloat, what does the drug have to do with it?

Mg per mg I believe d-bol is the most effective for building muscle. Primo is best for doing it without sides, hence, the perfect combo IMO. But let's face it, ALL steroids grow lean muscle so it's kind of a moot point.

As far as gaining 8 pounds on a one month cycle-- I've seen it bro -- many times.(Realize growth still ocurs after the 21 day period) True, it's the high end, and a 5 pound gain is more realistic, but in a way, we're in agreement that it makes no sense to gain 20 and lose 25. People scoff at 5 pounds, but it would take them a year to gain that naturally. It can be done in a month. But people like being on. That's the only logical answer for a longer cycle.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Silient: I think we're more on the same page than you realize.

I too don't consider water weight as "gain" but that's exactly the misperception a lot of guys make. That's why creatine is popular, post cycle. It puts back the water! (Muscles do look fuller when you retain a little water).
Click to expand...
Yeah, the "volumization" feels great for some guys. But misconception is not the only basis for creatine supplementation post-cycle. I favor it for it's well established anti-catabolic action.

Nelson Montana said:
So the question must be repeated -- what do you mean by "lean" muscle? ALL muscle is lean! If you aren't concerned with bloat, what does the drug have to do with it?
Click to expand...
Yes, all muscle is lean. I am concerned with growing lean muscle - NOT simply seeing a weight change on a scale. What does the drug have to do with it? Side effects for one. Efficiency of stimulating muscle growth for two. These points vary among different drugs.

Nelson Montana said:
Mg per mg I believe d-bol is the most effective for building muscle. Primo is best for doing it without sides, hence, the perfect combo IMO.
Click to expand...
Ditto on the bol.

Nelson Montana said:
But let's face it, ALL steroids grow lean muscle so it's kind of a moot point.
Click to expand...
Moot point, it is not. (Read: What does the drug have to do with it? Side effects for one. Efficiency of stimulating muscle growth for two. These points vary among different drugs.)

Nelson Montana said:
As far as gaining 8 pounds on a one month cycle-- I've seen it bro -- many times.(Realize growth still ocurs after the 21 day period) True, it's the high end, and a 5 pound gain is more realistic, but in a way, we're in agreement that it makes no sense to gain 20 and lose 25. People scoff at 5 pounds, but it would take them a year to gain that naturally. It can be done in a month. But people like being on. That's the only logical answer for a longer cycle.
Click to expand...
Growth still occurs at the end of 10 weeks cycles as well. I do understand supression concerns and I do understand where you're coming from. Read my post that got slipped in before your last. A short cycle is on the agenda.
 
We're getting closer.

Two points.

If the difference that concerns you is side effects, well, you should know that already. These days nobody has a right to do fina or deca and be surprised at the negitive sides. Same with halo and anadrol.

One point with which I must adamantly dissagree is your comment that growth occurs after a 10 week cycle. It definitely does NOT -- at least not too long afterward at which point there is a severe catabolic stage. Also, at that point the body is suppressed and can not possibly maintain the additional muscle mass it's gained, which leads to a loss of weight that isn't just water. Sure, you can use the clen and the slin and the GH and the bromo and the HCG and the whatever you want, but sooner or later you will lose that weight. (Except for about 8 pounds)

But hey, I ain't going argue the 1 gram pf teat a week approach. You're gonna love that. But one thing has nothing to do with the other.
 
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
Mg per mg I believe d-bol is the most effective for building muscle. Primo is best for doing it without sides, hence, the perfect combo IMO.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only thing that I dislike about primo is that, legit primo is getting very hard to find. I've gotten real good results with a test primo cycle. And got modest weight gains but pure quality muscle on a primo, anavar cycle.
 
Nelson Montana said:
We're getting closer.

Two points.

If the difference that concerns you is side effects, well, you should know that already. These days nobody has a right to do fina or deca and be surprised at the negitive sides. Same with halo and anadrol.
Click to expand...
Sides are not the only thing that concerns me, but I agree with you here.

Nelson Montana said:
One point with which I must adamantly dissagree is your comment that growth occurs after a 10 week cycle. It definitely does NOT -- at least not too long afterward at which point there is a severe catabolic stage.
Click to expand...
As I said, I do understand suppression concerns. Of course if one's HTPA is groggy after a cycle they won't grow until it is restored. Once restored, however, given proper training and diet, they grow.

Nelson Montana said:
Also, at that point the body is suppressed and can not possibly maintain the additional muscle mass it's gained, which leads to a loss of weight that isn't just water. Sure, you can use the clen and the slin and the GH and the bromo and the HCG and the whatever you want, but sooner or later you will lose that weight. (Except for about 8 pounds)
Click to expand...
Explain the 12 pounds of lean tissue that I grew and did not loose. (BTW, I've added even more lean mass in the 6 months since that cycle.)
 
Okay, 12 pounds.

I see no reason why you can't put on some mass afterward, drug free if you got the HPTA up and running at full steam quickly. Of course, that's dependant on a lot of things (age, time off, recovery rate, post cycle proticol, cycle history etc)
 
I'm going to bump this back up. I'm still unsure about what I want to do, and Nelson's input has lead me to consider two polarized approaches to this next cycle.

Everyone feel free to comment.

Nelson, I may just make this the time to try out a series of short cycles. What might you, and others, recomend in this line. PM me if you like.
 
Nelson, I am interested in hearing your observation on a Cutting cycle rather than a bulking cycle. That is a cycle strong enough to help keep gains.

I am a super hard gainer need to loose about 12-15 pounds of pure fat.

When I cut without any anabolic agent I get cut, but loose huge amount of muscle (as I said, a true a harder gainer than a typical hard gainer).

On my last cycle which lasted 10 weeks I had excellent gains though (for me) which I kept 80% of them and 90% of the strength (maybe due to excellent post therapy program which combined your theories along with clomid and nolva) even though two months have passed since therapy.

Anyway, you can't cut 3 weeks and loose 12-15 pounds of fat. Something more in the neighbourhood of 10-12 weeks. I never compromise the great gains I've achieved.
 
junk said:
Nelson, I am interested in hearing your observation on a Cutting cycle rather than a bulking cycle. That is a cycle strong enough to help keep gains.

I am a super hard gainer need to loose about 12-15 pounds of pure fat.

When I cut without any anabolic agent I get cut, but loose huge amount of muscle (as I said, a true a harder gainer than a typical hard gainer).

On my last cycle which lasted 10 weeks I had excellent gains though (for me) which I kept 80% of them and 90% of the strength (maybe due to excellent post therapy program which combined your theories along with clomid and nolva) even though two months have passed since therapy.

Anyway, you can't cut 3 weeks and loose 12-15 pounds of fat. Something more in the neighbourhood of 10-12 weeks. I never compromise the great gains I've achieved.
Click to expand...
No offense, but why not make your own thread with this question?
 
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