Is the groundfighting becoming obsolete?

[megamania500]

Is the groundfighting game becoming obsolete?

With the arrival of Royce Gracie in the UFC in '93 and after, everyone jumped on the groundfighting bandwagon. It was clearly shown how someone with skilled takedown and ground skills could have an advantage over a stand-up striker. But here it is, years later, and we are seeing strikers winning against groundfighters (not always, of course. But i.e. Silva and Liddel's successes in the ocagon).
Is it the promoters that are putting great strikers against poor groundfighters in an attempt to liven up the fight cards? Is it that strikers are figuring out how to counter against the groundfighter's takedown attempts?
Myself, I'd like to think that its the latter. That the fight game is evolving to the point that what was the most effective strategy ten years ago has evolved into something more effective. Today's Chuck Liddel -vs- Royce Gracie of '94?

 

[novamanms]

The bandwagon was jumped on because it was a range few knew how to fight in. None of the ranges will ever become absolete. It's vital to know at least rudimentary basics of fighting in each.

As for the ground game, it will continue to evolve...as have MMA fighters. In the end, fighters will be winning not on a question of their style or technique, but of their own wits and physical accumen.

 

[megamania500]

The bandwagon was jumped on because it was a range few knew how to fight in. None of the ranges will ever become absolete. It's vital to know at least rudimentary basics of fighting in each.

As for the ground game, it will continue to evolve...as have MMA fighters. In the end, fighters will be winning not on a question of their style or technique, but of their own wits and physical accumen.

lol, because the answer you gave was one I should've been able to figure out myself if I had gave it some thjought.

 

[Djimbe]

I disagree with pl that say things "Contuinue To Evole" I think that they "Continue To Cycle" . People forgot how to Groundfight because for so long so many ppl were at the place wich is obviously approaching now - its easily Thwarted for the ost part if you know how , but then ppl stop training it for a time , and it becomes "revoiloutionary" again ... and the whole thing starts over .

 

[megamania500]

I disagree with pl that say things "Contuinue To Evole" I think that they "Continue To Cycle" . People forgot how to Groundfight because for so long so many ppl were at the place wich is obviously approaching now - its easily Thwarted for the ost part if you know how , but then ppl stop training it for a time , and it becomes "revoiloutionary" again ... and the whole thing starts over .

Let me get what your saying here, because I don't think I'm understanding what your saying. In other words, you see "revolutionary" as being no different as what it was before. But since it lost it's "effectiveness" (due to becoming familiar to everyone) at one point, people reverted to other tactics to "evolve" and counter these tactics. Therefore, they neglected to learn the basics of the original tactics.
And the neglect of these original tactics (and the unfamiliarity of these tactics that comes with this neglect) for a certain period of time makes the comeback of these original tactics become "revolutionary" in the eyes of those that are just now learning them?

 

[Djimbe]

Wow , are you in Contract Litigation by any chance ?

I THINK you have what Im trying to say ..

No one was Groundfighting because everyone knew the "Trick" to stopping it , but after a while , no one bothered to Try for so long that the "Tricks" to stopping it were forgotten . then ppl were caught Unawares/unprepared , because they only trained for Standing Fights . Now theyre Slowly "Dusting Off" or "Rediscovring" the same Tricks they USED to know before they got Complacent and lazy .

 

[AEKDB]

I think we are seeing for the first time true athelets who are very good and ground fighting and very good at standup.

 

[megamania500]

Wow , are you in Contract Litigation by any chance ?

I THINK you have what Im trying to say ..

No one was Groundfighting because everyone knew the "Trick" to stopping it , but after a while , no one bothered to Try for so long that the "Tricks" to stopping it were forgotten . then ppl were caught Unawares/unprepared , because they only trained for Standing Fights . Now theyre Slowly "Dusting Off" or "Rediscovring" the same Tricks they USED to know before they got Complacent and lazy .

But if ppl forgot the tricks to defend against the "older" groundfighting tactics, wouldn't that make Royce Gracie's fighting style just as effective now against the present day's fighters as it was against the fighters of 10-15 years ago? If so, the Royce would be just as effective today as he was 12 years ago. But a good example of the opposite of this would be Ultimate Fighter #2 fight of Joe Stevenson vs Luke Cummo, where Luke did a pretty good job of fighting back against Joe's ground game. Although Joe won by unanimous decision, Luke did a pretty good job of fighting back against Joe's ground game. Now, did Luke do well because he knew the tactics of Joe's ground game, or because his stand-up was just that well-honed that it made Joe's ground game obsolete?

 

[JL_204]

Ground fighting is like a chess game. There is an answer for everything. Basically, the first one who makes a mistake is done.

It also depends on the individual. My buddy and I have been training Muay Thai and BJJ for the same amount of time. He kicks my ass sparring and I kick his ass rolling.

 

[AEKDB]

I know some will disagree but... As far as the circle concept, I do not think we will go back to the classic styles being considered anything more than a pure form of art. All real fighters will bring a solid basic ground game composed of BJJ/Wrestling (a little judo perhaps), along with a solid standing game Mauy thai/boxing.

On an intersting side note, and contrary to my coment above, I decided to see what Martial Arts books my university library had. There was a book from the '40s showing basic grappling including: rear naked choke, double leg takedown, joint locks, etc. Could be a modern book. Unbelievable in that the demonstrators where wearing business suits (with jacket) in place of gis.