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Is liver damage from orals overrated?
- Thread starter rake922
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c3bodybuilding
New member
No it's not over rated! Be safe and take plenty of milk thistle, rala, tylers, etc and be safe and sane with your dosages and length of time you take them. The liver is an amazing organ. It can heal and repair if you let it. But as long as you play it safe, you should be fine 
I sat in a Clinic at U of Michigan Hospital while the Drs tried to discover why my liver values stayed high. I told them I had been taking dbol and ana, but they didn't understand. I told them my values would be normal in 4-6 weeks, but they are study crazy there.
I played the game and it all worked out. But I saw something that stuck with me.
The Clinic was full of men and a few women who had serious liver damage. Some were dying ... they had the yellow skin, cadaver look. Some were crying.
I learned that liver damage is not to be taken lightly. Orals are rough. Inject.
I played the game and it all worked out. But I saw something that stuck with me.
The Clinic was full of men and a few women who had serious liver damage. Some were dying ... they had the yellow skin, cadaver look. Some were crying.
I learned that liver damage is not to be taken lightly. Orals are rough. Inject.
lacoste
New member
I think some people are genetically predisposed to have liver problems. I had one buddy who took winnie 75mg ed for 4 weeks and turned yellow. Another one took 50mg ed of dbol for like 6 weeks and drank like a fish and had no problems. Everyone is different. But why take the chance and risk it. Take liver protetants and limit the time you are on.
S
Spartacus
Guest
I see one about once a monththelion2005 said:
gonna bury one this week
chazk
New member
when the liver stops working or is damaged.. it cuases the gallbladder to back up,cuases the pancrease to not work properly and cuases the intestines to not digest food correct.. guys loose lots of weight..
I just watched a good friend go through this.. he got yellow skin and eyes,, his liver was swelled and cuased gallballder problems.. he had the shits and runs for a month...his bilirubin levels were off the chart due to toxic hepatitis...
so far he lost 25 lbs.. and still cant work out untill may 15th if even then..
this was back one march 25th he was hospitalized ..its been one month and for him almost 6 weeks off all steroids he is finally digesting food somewhat normal but its still is kinda green and mushy..
liver toxicty is a serious issue..
he took milk thistle,drank lots of water.. but still got toxic buildup.
the real kicker to the whole thing is he ran doses of anavar 60mg for 10 weeks... with his injects.. guys on here claim to have run orals longer,higher doses and more toxic orals as well and never had a problem..
so alot of it is prob genetics.. if you have a liver that is built like a steel tank youll be ok.. if your liver is a tin can your prob gonna have problems reguardless of how much water or milk thistle you use.
I just watched a good friend go through this.. he got yellow skin and eyes,, his liver was swelled and cuased gallballder problems.. he had the shits and runs for a month...his bilirubin levels were off the chart due to toxic hepatitis...
so far he lost 25 lbs.. and still cant work out untill may 15th if even then..
this was back one march 25th he was hospitalized ..its been one month and for him almost 6 weeks off all steroids he is finally digesting food somewhat normal but its still is kinda green and mushy..
liver toxicty is a serious issue..
he took milk thistle,drank lots of water.. but still got toxic buildup.
the real kicker to the whole thing is he ran doses of anavar 60mg for 10 weeks... with his injects.. guys on here claim to have run orals longer,higher doses and more toxic orals as well and never had a problem..
so alot of it is prob genetics.. if you have a liver that is built like a steel tank youll be ok.. if your liver is a tin can your prob gonna have problems reguardless of how much water or milk thistle you use.
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
What's M1T? And what purpose does it serve?
Cancell my question, I googled it.
Toxic Prohormone with dubious usefullness.
Cancell my question, I googled it.
Toxic Prohormone with dubious usefullness.
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NYBodyguard
New member
chazk said:
crazy story but either
a) he abused other drugs as well (mostlikly)
b) hes got a very weak liver (very not likly)
lets be real tons of guys just right here on this forum are running more then one oral at once for a long time, how many posts about failed liver do you see, how many in general in bb'ing?
How many guys in the gym in the past 10 years got fucked up, I dont know any thank god but sure as hell know tons who use serious amounts.
Here is the pattern of those who got seriously fucked up in BB
Serious drinkers and drug abusers such as oxycontin etc + juice
If orals would kill like people say the guy from the 70's would be dead by mid 80's
Lets not get all politically correct here and say what we feel is right to say because thats just a bullshit way to live, look at real numbers and talk the truth.
Women are big abusers of var how many you know fucked up (liver wise that is)
chazk
New member
NYBodyguard said:
no its not a crazy story
he ran anavar 10 weeks
test 500mg and eq 600mg
by week 10 he was in the hospital with toxics hepatits.
that was it no drinking no drugs..
his blood got real thick the liver swelled. and next thing yea know he was yellow as a traffic light and lost 25lbs.. mainly becuase he could not lift for 6 weeks.due to the fact he was not digesting food.when he ate something it came out his ass and looked exactly like when he chewed it up.
no one knows exactly how steroids are gonna effect them..
one guy in here post a few months agoe dbol gave him tiny liver tumors after 4 weeks..now thats some scary shit..
nybodyguard be thanksfull you ,I and guys on here have strong livers that can handle the drugs.. but he could not handle it... just as some guys drink everyday live to be 80 with no problems some guys find themselves at 40 awaiting a liver transplant...
and also guys at thr gym that fuck themselves up usually just disappear and leave for awhile and dont talk about the liver or kidney problems they had its almost like a taboo to even mention liver or kidney damage to other bodybuilders... Its actually more common then what you think...I never said people died from steroid use.
for you to compare it by saying guys from the 70's would be dead by now... becuase of the orals they used...well here is the news you dont wanna hear they are dying mike mentzer died a few years back and others have to you just dont hear it much becuase they are not arnold franco or big lou .. the ones with better genetics and better livers have lived longer just as expected..
the ones with weaker body such as heart liver kidneys are not doing se well.
lets just take a look at some recent guys,flex,youngblood,newman,andremunzter,dillet .. they ran the drugs they had serious problems.. but guys like jay and coleman keep on going its all genetics not even at the muscle level but as far as having internal organs that can handle the drugs...
gjohnson5
New member
I am in agreement that people on this board will do heavy amounts of drugs trying to look like the top pros and they don't have decent genetics much less good genetics.
Taking heavy amounts of drugs is no substitute for god given ability
So when one abuses orals in an attempt to look like a top pro , I agree that ones liver can suffer immensely
Taking heavy amounts of drugs is no substitute for god given ability
So when one abuses orals in an attempt to look like a top pro , I agree that ones liver can suffer immensely
chazk said:
needtogetaas
New member
in short dont fuck with the liver and never take large amounts of orals for a long time.methodx31 said:
that thread with the guy that had a friend that got yellow eyes comes to mind.
A
ALIN
Guest
rake922 said:
I think the are really overrated. but the athlete needs to use common sense and not run orals for too long,,,most AAS orals 4-6wks MAX.
jeb0177
New member
hahaha liver damage LOL overrated???? hehhehehe I got liver tummors 5 of em the biggest being 2.5cm for taking dbol at only 40mg a day for 6wks everything done according to the 'book'. overrated? I don't think so. I stick to only injectables, they don't cause liver damage at all. in fact there's no written litterature that IE testosterone depo will cause liver damage(according to my gastro unless u r taking mega doses?!?!). no 17aa for me... and that happened to me 4 yrs ago its called focal nodular hyperplasia... now I have to take MRIs every 6 months. not even funny it happened to me it can happen to anybody here taking orals. stick to injectables why take chances, but that's my opinion
rake922 said:
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jeb0177
New member
the liver tummor guy on dbol was me. thank God I'm ok they are shrinking though but I don't wish this to my worse enemy.
QUOTE=chazk]no its not a crazy story
he ran anavar 10 weeks
test 500mg and eq 600mg
by week 10 he was in the hospital with toxics hepatits.
that was it no drinking no drugs..
his blood got real thick the liver swelled. and next thing yea know he was yellow as a traffic light and lost 25lbs.. mainly becuase he could not lift for 6 weeks.due to the fact he was not digesting food.when he ate something it came out his ass and looked exactly like when he chewed it up.
no one knows exactly how steroids are gonna effect them..
one guy in here post a few months agoe dbol gave him tiny liver tumors after 4 weeks..now thats some scary shit..
nybodyguard be thanksfull you ,I and guys on here have strong livers that can handle the drugs.. but he could not handle it... just as some guys drink everyday live to be 80 with no problems some guys find themselves at 40 awaiting a liver transplant...
and also guys at thr gym that fuck themselves up usually just disappear and leave for awhile and dont talk about the liver or kidney problems they had its almost like a taboo to even mention liver or kidney damage to other bodybuilders... Its actually more common then what you think...I never said people died from steroid use.
for you to compare it by saying guys from the 70's would be dead by now... becuase of the orals they used...well here is the news you dont wanna hear they are dying mike mentzer died a few years back and others have to you just dont hear it much becuase they are not arnold franco or big lou .. the ones with better genetics and better livers have lived longer just as expected..
the ones with weaker body such as heart liver kidneys are not doing se well.
lets just take a look at some recent guys,flex,youngblood,newman,andremunzter,dillet .. they ran the drugs they had serious problems.. but guys like jay and coleman ..[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=chazk]no its not a crazy story
he ran anavar 10 weeks
test 500mg and eq 600mg
by week 10 he was in the hospital with toxics hepatits.
that was it no drinking no drugs..
his blood got real thick the liver swelled. and next thing yea know he was yellow as a traffic light and lost 25lbs.. mainly becuase he could not lift for 6 weeks.due to the fact he was not digesting food.when he ate something it came out his ass and looked exactly like when he chewed it up.
no one knows exactly how steroids are gonna effect them..
one guy in here post a few months agoe dbol gave him tiny liver tumors after 4 weeks..now thats some scary shit..
nybodyguard be thanksfull you ,I and guys on here have strong livers that can handle the drugs.. but he could not handle it... just as some guys drink everyday live to be 80 with no problems some guys find themselves at 40 awaiting a liver transplant...
and also guys at thr gym that fuck themselves up usually just disappear and leave for awhile and dont talk about the liver or kidney problems they had its almost like a taboo to even mention liver or kidney damage to other bodybuilders... Its actually more common then what you think...I never said people died from steroid use.
for you to compare it by saying guys from the 70's would be dead by now... becuase of the orals they used...well here is the news you dont wanna hear they are dying mike mentzer died a few years back and others have to you just dont hear it much becuase they are not arnold franco or big lou .. the ones with better genetics and better livers have lived longer just as expected..
the ones with weaker body such as heart liver kidneys are not doing se well.
lets just take a look at some recent guys,flex,youngblood,newman,andremunzter,dillet .. they ran the drugs they had serious problems.. but guys like jay and coleman ..[/QUOTE]
Nighthawkk
New member
This is a grey area because a lot of you guys have bad experiences, but its probably due to oral abuse or pre-existing genetics or drug abuse. For the ones that can do 200mg of A-bombs daily and still drink a bottle of vodka on the weekend, you will certainly realize soon enough that your body can only take so much, regardless of how strong your resilience. Moderation and precaution is key, so checking blood values regularly and using supps like milk thistle and ALA are required. And if that doesn't work, then just don't do orals, plain and simple.
perp69
New member
Can take 2-3 months sometimes before liver values return to normal depending on your cycle. You should wait longer than a week afterwards before seeking insurance.gjohnson5 said:
Just my opinion on so called liver supplements but think they are bunch of horseshit. If they were so effective docs would be puttin all patients on them with liver problems. Remember supplements and the companies that sell them don't have to do test or real studies for what they claim to do.
I could sell chocolate as a liver supplement.Perp
gjohnson5
New member
It take shorter then that if you use R+ala , NAC and glutathione. They arenot horseshit because I have blood test to prove it. They do infact regenerate some liver tissue and get ALT , SGOT back to normal.
Anyway you misunderstood the story
1. I took M1t
2. I got blood test done
3. Years went by on company health insurance
4. I leave company and ask for my own insurance
5. Insurance company talks to my doctor
6. Insurance company(s) denies me health insurance
To be honest it was multiple rejections
Anyway you misunderstood the story
1. I took M1t
2. I got blood test done
3. Years went by on company health insurance
4. I leave company and ask for my own insurance
5. Insurance company talks to my doctor
6. Insurance company(s) denies me health insurance
To be honest it was multiple rejections
perp69 said:Can take 2-3 months sometimes before liver values return to normal depending on your cycle. You should wait longer than a week afterwards before seeking insurance.
Just my opinion on so called liver supplements but think they are bunch of horseshit. If they were so effective docs would be puttin all patients on them with liver problems. Remember supplements and the companies that sell them don't have to do test or real studies for what they claim to do.
Perp
perp69
New member
Yeah I guess I don't understand. Why would they talk to your doc? I carried my own insurance for years. When I got my own insurance (insurance.com I think it was) they didn't talk to any doc because I didn't even have a regular doc at the time. I filled out the forms and medical history and they gave me a quote and I sent my money. Simple as that. Same for life insurance except they did their own labs and EKG before giving the policy. You must have something else going on. Did they say why you were rejected?gjohnson5 said:
Don't get me wrong I know a lot guys hold liver supps up like they are the holy grail but I am not convinced. The liver regenerates itself without any help and levels go back to normal on their own unless you already in cirrhosis. That is something the body already does naturally. I haven't heard of any docs recommending liver supplements to their patients with liver problems.
Perp
my younger brother did 2 rounds of it and looked amazing after both.georgie24 said:
gjohnson5
New member
You just answered you own question. If you did have a doc at the time , they would has asked for his name and number. The health insurance underwriters will ask for health information from you. One company brought a sales person to interview me.
As far as liver supps go , I've had blood test and ultrasound done. Chemicals can cause ones liver to fail outright. A diet high in fast food can cause ones liver to degenerate and it may not regenerate until the diet is altered. Saying that you would have to have some liver disease in order to attain substantial liver damage is just off base.
I've never heard of any doctor saying r+ala cures hepatitis B either...
As far as liver supps go , I've had blood test and ultrasound done. Chemicals can cause ones liver to fail outright. A diet high in fast food can cause ones liver to degenerate and it may not regenerate until the diet is altered. Saying that you would have to have some liver disease in order to attain substantial liver damage is just off base.
I've never heard of any doctor saying r+ala cures hepatitis B either...
perp69 said:
perp69
New member
gjohnson5 said:You just answered you own question. If you did have a doc at the time , they would has asked for his name and number. The health insurance underwriters will ask for health information from you. One company brought a sales person to interview me.
As far as liver supps go , I've had blood test and ultrasound done. Chemicals can cause ones liver to fail outright. A diet high in fast food can cause ones liver to degenerate and it may not regenerate until the diet is altered. Saying that you would have to have some liver disease in order to attain substantial liver damage is just off base.
I've never heard of any doctor saying r+ala cures hepatitis B either...
I am trying to share some info that may help you but take it or don't that is up to you. Just saying it does not make sense that you would be denied coverage based on old liver labs. Maybe you got something big on your medical record that you not sharing. As you stated many people are taking meds that can elevated liver function. Not a big deal. They can go back down. Sounds like you should apply again and not list your doctor if you feel he is giving them bad info on you. Check out insurance.com you can see quotes from several different companies. Goldenrule gave us a great rate.
As far as the liver supps go you made the assertion that maybe because you were not taking them on your cycle your labs were high and you got denied. That is plain silly. Of course your labs are going to be elevated 1 wk post cycle of any AAS. I look at healthy and sick livers, liver transplants and blood work everyday in my job so I know a bit about what I am talking about. Obviously you believe liver supps work for you so buy liver supps if it gives you a warm fuzzy. As far labs go you would need labs run with and without liver supps on the same cycle and diet and the ability to keep all variables constant to even begin to make the assertion that they work (ultrasound can't tell you that by the way). Yes, you sure can overdose on say something like tylenol and shock the liver into acute failure but you would be getting a liver transplant if that was the case. Like I said supplement companies do not have to back up what they claim their product does. The only supps that have been demonstrated to have some merit are creatine and protein powder.
Perp
Excidium28
New member
I look at it, if pros can take 200-250mgs of Dbol/Anadrol ED, Im sure ill be fine with my 50-75mgs.
I've been rotating 50mg Dbol/75mg Anadrol/100mg primo for the last 7 weeks (along with injectables, I got my blood test done before I started the cycle, and Ill be going in to check my liver again while on cycle.
I've been rotating 50mg Dbol/75mg Anadrol/100mg primo for the last 7 weeks (along with injectables, I got my blood test done before I started the cycle, and Ill be going in to check my liver again while on cycle.
TheSnowOwnsYou
New member
I think this varies from person to person obviously. My doctor did send me for a liver ultrasound after my enzymes were way to high for comfort after a cycle that included oral winstrol and anavar. now i just do injectibles
chilledandy
New member
Milk thistle is prescribed in Germany actually.
perp69 said:Just my opinion on so called liver supplements but think they are bunch of horseshit. If they were so effective docs would be puttin all patients on them with liver problems. Remember supplements and the companies that sell them don't have to do test or real studies for what they claim to do.
Perp
gjohnson5
New member
I wasn't asking for information from you. If you want to give me information , then at least give me something that is actually accurate 
This is a waste of my time at this point. You have completely mis characterized what I said and we are now going back and forth on an issue I've described a few times already. The part in bold is the only thing silly in this exchange. I will not go back over the situation
If you don't believe in liver supplements , then say so . Saying that they don't work is just wrong. Obviously I am not the only one who thinks this is true
http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Milk Thistle.asp?prodid=219377
Glutathione is also given in prescriptions in IV form. But what do I know...
*edit*
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/187/1/211
*edit*
And as a finale,
I didn't say I was without insurance currently. Thanks for pointing me to an insurance company I already subscribe to...
This is a waste of my time at this point. You have completely mis characterized what I said and we are now going back and forth on an issue I've described a few times already. The part in bold is the only thing silly in this exchange. I will not go back over the situation
If you don't believe in liver supplements , then say so . Saying that they don't work is just wrong. Obviously I am not the only one who thinks this is true
http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Milk Thistle.asp?prodid=219377
Glutathione is also given in prescriptions in IV form. But what do I know...
*edit*
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/187/1/211
*edit*
And as a finale,
I didn't say I was without insurance currently. Thanks for pointing me to an insurance company I already subscribe to...
perp69 said:
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ChessPharm
New member
All Orals are Toxic
perp69
New member
gjohnson5 said:I wasn't asking for information from you. If you want to give me information , then at least give me something that is actually accurate
This is a waste of my time at this point. You have completely mis characterized what I said and we are now going back and forth on an issue I've described a few times already. The part in bold is the only thing silly in this exchange. I will not go back over the situation
If you don't believe in liver supplements , then say so . Saying that they don't work is just wrong. Obviously I am not the only one who thinks this is true
http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Milk Thistle.asp?prodid=219377
Glutathione is also given in prescriptions in IV form. But what do I know...
*edit*
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/187/1/211
*edit*
And as a finale,
I didn't say I was without insurance currently. Thanks for pointing me to an insurance company I already subscribe to...
Whatever man. I was correcting the misleading crap you posted. I can see newbies reading that and running out to the walmart to load up on life saving supplements.
I am glad you at least acknowledge what you said was silly. I did say my opinion was they are horseshit because studies have not shown they do work consistantly. Saying liver supps work without any studies to back it up is wrong also isn't it? Did you read the links you posted? Your first one says milk thistle is a tonic use by herbalists. Come on man. Your second one "Theoretically, there are many very strong arguments in favor of a therapeutic use of glutathione," says Appleton. "But when people have actually tried to use glutathione as an oral supplement, nasal spray, or intravenously, the results have been more of a preliminary nature. The amount of research on glutathione as a supplement ... is very limited."
Glad you got coverage.
Any who. Good luck to you.
Perp
digimon7068
New member
rake922 said:
i did. . .i have a stay-at-home-mom wife and three kids and i have around a million in life insurance. . .i had piss test, blood test and full (i.e., finger up the ass) physical. . .
Just to let you know I actually experienced this. I was using a very small dose daily of tbol and within a very short period of time I got some serious kidney/liver pain. It got so bad I had to go to the er and my liver was so out of wack they admitted me into the hospital. I was doing nothing different in my life except for the tbol. I don't drink/smoke/do drugs so it couldn't be that. I was on an iv in the hospital for a week and a half until my levels were back to normal. I have never touched tbol again and I've been back to the doc to test my levels and it's perfect.
I will not mess with orals again, but that's just my experience.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
I will not mess with orals again, but that's just my experience.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
