Is all human life the same value??

[SpyWizard]

We have seen for the last 4 years threads and discussions about bomb this, kill that, we hear reports of armies in the world that will move into an area and rape all of the women and children of birthing age, killing the men and boys, we know that in some cultures 50% of all deaths of women will happen in the kitchen from fire (accidents) because the husband cannot in his culture grant her a divorce. In others, if a female child is born 1st to a couple, the child will die within 1 day because it is not a male child.

So, is all human life = ??

Next question... who says our values are better??

 

[the_alcatraz]

All good questions bro. All very valid. Who is to say what or who is right. Who are we to judge.

 

[Kano]

no not all human life have the same value... my life i would rate as a bum dying .. see so no valur there.. now a hot ass bitch dying well good value there

 

[-Ariel-]

too bad cotto fight is on, gotta pass on this doestyevsky type question... excellent thread...SW why couldn't you wait and post this tomorrow, when the fight is not on.. selfish bastard... can't get past yourself for a minute? lol

 

[EnderJE]

The person with the gun gets to decide the relative value of life.

 

[calveless wonder]

it's an ideal that has very little real life application

 

[the_alcatraz]

it's an ideal that has very little real life application

+1

Very true

 

[gjohnson5]

The person with the gun gets to decide the relative value of life.

That's why the interpretation of the second amendment needs to go back to state regulation

 

[binö]

All good questions bro. All very valid. Who is to say what or who is right. Who are we to judge.

meh, this type of attitude perpetuates sick beahaviour imo
and is a liberal fantasy
stoning adulteress, for example, is not right.
those who don't judge are nancies imo

 

[gjohnson5]

it's an ideal that has very little real life application

I was about to write something that would have gotten me in hot water
But to paraphrase, I think in America where much of what we call "success" and "failure" seems to be based on money. Having said this , I feel Americans are vrey quick to generalize if they see someone who looks homeless or someone who's driving a mercedes

 

[calveless wonder]

I was about to write something that would have gotten me in hot water
But to paraphrase, I think in America where much of what we call "success" and "failure" seems to be based on money. Having said this , I feel Americans are vrey quick to generalize if they see someone who looks homeless or someone who's driving a mercedes

yep....although i think its human nature to generalize and judge.
i wonder if this is prevalent in the rest of the world.

at least with homeless people, it seems to be from the many places i've traveled to. unless it's a war torn country where everyone is poor.

 

[velvett]

all human lives have the same value intrinsically

 

[the_alcatraz]

meh, this type of attitude perpetuates sick beahaviour imo
and is a liberal fantasy
stoning adulteress, for example, is not right.
those who don't judge are nancies imo

I tend to judge sometimes...but other times, I let someone else do the judging.

 

[jerseyrugger76]

Despite what we would often like to think when deciding tax policy or making decisions involving war, yes, all life, everywhere, is of equivalent value.

 

[velvett]

Despite what we would often like to think when deciding tax policy or making decisions involving war, yes, all life, everywhere, is of equivalent value.

Sounds so much better when you said it.

*hmmph*

 

[Mr. dB]

Cops' lives are obviously worth more than civilians', since the penalty is so much more harsh for taking one.

 

[stosstruppe]

Next question... who says our values are better??

If providing women with equal rights, the right to choose their life partner & the right not to be stoned to death simply for having an affair or sex outside of marriage makes our values worse than others, then so be it, I'm happy to subscribe to those "inferior" values.

If the right to education & socialised medicine / basic healthcare is considered an inferior value, then so be it, I'm also happy to subscribe to these "inferior" values.

If the right to not be persecuted for your ideology (however bloody absurd it is) is considered inferior, then again, as above.

 

[pin]

If you are a theist (believe in God) then all human life is equal.

If you are an atheist (do not believe in God) then all human life is still equal.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

No.
Some lives are valued higher than others. It's naive to think otherwise.
Do I think it should be that way? Hmmm. I have conflicting viewpoints to that question.

 

[heatherrae]

All good questions bro. All very valid. Who is to say what or who is right. Who are we to judge.

BS!

I never go for that argument. Some things, such as murder, are so inherently wrong that I feel pretty confident in saying it is wrong!

 

[nimbus]

value to who? to me, my brother's life has way more value than that of some beaner with no car insurance who hits me pulling out of a gas station. so no it is not all the same value.

 

[SpyWizard]

all valid points, and obviously thank you all who posted, most will respond that have a distinctive opinion based on their own real life experiences, things that are important to them.

adultery
murder
money loss
and even altruistic belief's that life is fair when we know that survival controls many of our decisions.

Does a man serving coffee, does his life, and potential = the same as a man who through fortunes of life and experience creates a company that employs 1000's of people, paying them a fair wage for a fair work??

true, they both put their pants on 1 leg at a time, however value to society from his efforts is more valuable to society as he will add more to it's success rather than the man who serves the coffee..

hmm.. more questions than answers it seems..

 

[the_alcatraz]

BS!

I never go for that argument. Some things, such as murder, are so inherently wrong that I feel pretty confident in saying it is wrong!

lol...i wasnt talking about universal notions of wrong, such as murder, rape, stealing, etc..

 

[roadwarrior]

We have seen for the last 4 years threads and discussions about bomb this, kill that, we hear reports of armies in the world that will move into an area and rape all of the women and children of birthing age, killing the men and boys, we know that in some cultures 50% of all deaths of women will happen in the kitchen from fire (accidents) because the husband cannot in his culture grant her a divorce. In others, if a female child is born 1st to a couple, the child will die within 1 day because it is not a male child.

So, is all human life = ??

Next question... who says our values are better??

depends if one is talking about the basic right to life without incurring violence from others or one's contribution to society and how that contribution gives one more value in making decisions.

I believe the basic right to life (not the christian pro-life anti-abortion position -- pro-choice on that one) but I do feel that the value of one's contribution differs greatly. As far as a greater say to those of higher contribution, I am torn. On one hand, they are the more intelligent and educated and therefore better prepared to make good decisions yet on the other hand that would be a breakdown of democracy to say only property owners and taxpayers ( not ones who get 100% + back in refunds and benefits) should be the one's deciding how to run the country. Once again, I'm torn between the value of democracy and the strength of our country economically and militarily. Currently I lean to democracy but socialist trends and weakness of conviction to maintain America's greatness are pushing me more to the other side. Maybe I just don't play well with others.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

human life has equal value when you look at humans in isolation, but the fact is that we exist not just as individuals, but within a larger society

therefore it makes sense that some human life is more valuable (or less valuable) to the rest of humankind based on the impact that that human will have on the collective - so the question becomes complex, and more importantly, based on peoples beliefs

ie, all other things being equal

is someone with aids more or less valuable to society than someone who doesnt

is an educated person worth more than someone who has had no schooling

is a baby worth more than a geriatric

without context, this discussion is meaningless, and will change (being equally right) depending on the sensibilities of the person answering the question

 

[nimbus]

BS!

I never go for that argument. Some things, such as murder, are so inherently wrong that I feel pretty confident in saying it is wrong!

given that the entire universe is just a bunch of atoms and waves vibrating and jumping around (i think?), i think it's pretty dumb to say that anything is "inherently wrong"

 

[gonelifting]

Didn't read the thread.

All humans should be equal in a perfect world. Nuff said about that.

I think a lot of problems we have with other nations/people is that some think we are equal and some don't. Thus the fighting and wars. It all boils down to that.

I don't expect us to ever treat people equally any time soon. We've got so many other simpler problems that we can't fix right now. This is insurmountable for the world.

 

[-Ariel-]

I think culturally due to media confluence with globablizing technology, our current form of limited knowledge which operates through division and classification, and our current form of self understanding... the confluence of these factors establish a pervasive form of narcissism that is reflects from the individual to the cultural level... I think that lack of empathy, fiery mood of anger, lack of understanding are more pervasive now than ever... so while we have gained alot of shiny new things... we have lost some our own humanity... again IMO

 

[roadwarrior]

I think culturally due to media confluence with globablizing technology, our current form of limited knowledge which operates through division and classification, and our current form of self understanding... the confluence of these factors establish a pervasive form of narcissism that is reflects from the individual to the cultural level... I think that lack of empathy, fiery mood of anger, lack of understanding are more pervasive now than ever... so while we have gained alot of shiny new things... we have lost some our own humanity... again IMO

Some interesting concepts regarding causes of differences but does not necessarily speak to the question " are all humans of equal value" .

Nacissicm and self centered behavior that can be reflected in the idea that "he who dies with the most toys wins" does lead to poeple pulling apart and having less understanding and empathy towards each other. Online communications do the same... how many would speak to people IRL they way they do online? So many people confuse "things" with happiness. I used to be one but have changed through my family.

My wife often points out that I lack empathy towards others which allows me to make cold quantifiable judgements about people and write off those I consider or lower value relative to their contribution to society as measured by America being the best and my children inheritiing the best nation in the world. Increasingly difficult economic times adds to this feeling of "value" to those of us who care about raising our children in safe secure environments and providing college tuition and saving for our own retirement when put upon by increasingly invasive goverment trying to redistribute our wealth.

One needs to separate human worth from societal/ national worth. Those who don't contribute are of lower value than those who do when one uses those terms. As someone pointed out what about the elderly who have stopped contributing or the handicapped who can't? In socialized medicine that everyone wants, there will be choices to allow those who can't benefit to the optimal level from a treatment that the treatment will be withheld on a ROI basis...as it should if others are paying for it on the assumption that nationalized medicine is good for everyone.

Humans have value in that I don't support euthanasia for low contributors but they don't deserve the material possessions or comforts that others work hard to acquire.

A little disjointed but just a stream of thought.

 

[stosstruppe]

Iran "valuing" its gay inhabitants:

http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/bm~pix/hanging-3~s600x600.jpg

& certain groups in the UK want to introduce those "values" alongside Crown law.