Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below whats your guys opinions about running an insulin only cycle? thinking about it but not entirely sure how much to run per shot/how many shots a week, how long to run the cycle for and if there is PCT that should be done after the insulin only cycle....oh yeah and is it even worth trying to run an insulin only cycle?
Insulin only cycle
- Thread starter chaos13
- Start date
RADAR
Well-known member
Wouldn't touch it with a 50 ft pole
Insulin is one of the most powerful anabolic agents in the world. Used properly, it can add weight to you more quickly than any other compound at our disposal.
Used improperly, insulin will kill you.
Before I delve too deeply into explaining this compound, I feel that it´s important to stress that last part: Screw up with this stuff, and you die. You will go into a coma, and die. And I´m talking about simply taking too much of this stuff once.
Ok?
This drug needs to be treated with caution. If you aren´t willing to read as much as possible on insulin before using it, then you aren´t ready to use it at all.
You could be driving anywhere and your levels could suddenly drop ,you don't have anything ready to stabilize yourself well thats it! You go into a coma then you're really fucked.
RADAR
Insulin is one of the most powerful anabolic agents in the world. Used properly, it can add weight to you more quickly than any other compound at our disposal.
Used improperly, insulin will kill you.
Before I delve too deeply into explaining this compound, I feel that it´s important to stress that last part: Screw up with this stuff, and you die. You will go into a coma, and die. And I´m talking about simply taking too much of this stuff once.
Ok?
This drug needs to be treated with caution. If you aren´t willing to read as much as possible on insulin before using it, then you aren´t ready to use it at all.
You could be driving anywhere and your levels could suddenly drop ,you don't have anything ready to stabilize yourself well thats it! You go into a coma then you're really fucked.
RADAR
i've known people that have died by abusing insulin...
not a good idead
not a good idead
aquatic_glories
New member
It will still do more damage than heavy AAS compounds even when used properly , right???
if u inject more aas one time, no big deal
you inject too much insulin one time and you could go hypoglycemic and die
you inject too much insulin one time and you could go hypoglycemic and die
Cardinal Slin
New member
I would like a serious, intelligent conversation on this topic. Not 1000 flames from people who are spitting out the bull shit other people have told them.
Wulfgar, I know you are not remotely one of those people and are probably one of the most experienced on here but I would have to disagree with you.
It may be a good way to get fat but only if used incorrectly or if the diet is not as it should be during the active life of the insulin being used.
If someone cannot focus on diet then they shouldnt be using insulin or steroids for that matter. If someone doesnt have the necessary discipline to last for the whole day but was still adamant about doing an insulin only cycle, then hands down it would be humalog.
I have done an insulin only cycle a few times now. Not because that was my best decission but because I had no access to anything else at the time.
Did I gain strength? Yes
Did I gain size? Yes
Did I keep some of that? Yes (around 30-40% in the end and the strength)
Did I gain fat? Probably but not noticable.
Do I know how to use insulin? Yes, I first used it in the early 2000's. Although I would not recommend it to people purely because you cannot monitor someone's intelligence or attitude over the internet.
Cardinal Slin
New member
More than 1 million things will kill you if used improperly. If someone is not smart enough to use insulin properly, then they have no reason to be using it.
Agreed, but why would someone take too much? Insulin needles are designed that way for a very specific purpose. It is not like someone wants to take 5iu but will mistakenly inject 50iu.
If bodybuilders are using insulin and do not carry a high carb drink and some dextrose tablets on their person at all times, well then they havent read up on insulin as much as they can and should not be using it.
Cardinal Slin
New member
People use it for one of two reasons:
One of them is they want rapid size and strength in a very short period of time - a reason why so many school/teenagers/young men use steroids before maximising their natural ability.
Two because they have really grown massive with steroids and are looking for the edge - if 9 pro's use insulin, the others are at a disadvantage... One leads to the others following
Cardinal Slin
New member
I know people that have died from abuse of smoking and died from abuse of drinking and died from abuse of driving and died from abuse of recreational drugs.
The key word you emphasised is abuse.
Again, I know my posts will cause concern.
I am not recommending the use of insulin.
Cardinal Slin
New member
Please be more specific with your question?
Cardinal Slin
New member
Around 31% of adult people in America are obese and deaths related to obesity have reached more than 300,000 a year.
Approximately 60 million American people are now suffering from health problems caused due to obesity. Obesity in US adults has increased by 60% in the past 20 years and obesity in children has tripled during the past 30 years
Obesity is one of this country's nastiest and most costly health problems. It causes several health problems such as heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, high blood pressure, strokes, and certain types of cancers.
Blame McDonalds, Blame Supersize me because bigger is better in America, Blame Dominos and Pizza Hut and KFC and prepackaged meals.
Insulin only makes you fat when diet is abused while the insulin is active.
If someone doenst know how to diet, they should not be using insulin. If someone is stupid they should not be using insulin. If someone is depressed, they should not be using insulin.
I do not recommend using insulin.
If used correctly, it will not make you fat.
On another note, when off-season, which BF does not put on BF.
Cardinal Slin
New member
Cardinal Slin
New member
Honestly dude, I understand the risks associated with insulin and that people should not be using it, but I guarantee you, if you do put 10x more than you should (you are retarded) and I mean that as sincerely as possible.
No one aims to inject 5iu and puts in 10x that. It is just not possible.
that's true. how the hell would our overdose by 10X? or even 2X as much. that's being very careless.
aquatic_glories
New member
Can someoone tell their cycle results with insulin?? I mean body-masswise.
Everybody keeps saying it is the most powerful thing yet nobody tells exact results
Thanks
Everybody keeps saying it is the most powerful thing yet nobody tells exact results
Thanks
Cardinal Slin
New member
I personally believe that - with my body any way - after about 2 wks on insulin at 7iu twice a day *morning and post workout* results diminish and this is the time most likely to increase bf levels after those 2 weeks.
I have gained around 20lbs on quite a short insulin cycle. Insulin will transform your body in only weeks and add massively.
Obviously some of this is carboHYDRATEs and the gains will diminsh some what after the cycle and after stopping insulin.
Do Not use Insulin!
RADAR
Well-known member
I Won't get into that because if you're not a pro BBR Then insulin isn't for you, also there are too many idiots who might misread the point that i was discribing concerning insulin and attempt to use it anyway.
I Actually know a person who died from taking insulin this was his 3rd cycle attempt using this compound ,so what went wrong? We will never know.
2 Bro's here about 4 yrs back were experienced insulin users on 2seperate occasions both had to go to the emergengy Room by ambulance,fortunately they both survived.
So ask yourself this question -how much do you love life?Would you play Russian Roulette with it?
Nuff Said.
RADAR
littleb
New member
do a simple google search and you will find out that slin use when you dont need it,, meaning bb use can lead to diabetis down the road,, which by the way is a disease,,,,,,, DONT FUCK WITH SLIN hell i wouldnt even if i was a pro bb,,, and cardinal sin,, if i still had my plat i would bomb you,, and in 2 years plat i never bombed anybody,,,,,, you were defending its use based on the fact you used it,, maybe you got lucky, and maybe not,, who knows down the road........
dont touch the shit bro, not worth the risks
dont touch the shit bro, not worth the risks
Cardinal Slin
New member
Please read and point out anywhere in this thread that I have recommended using insulin?
In fact I have advised against it but told the truth about it rather than spitting out crap that I heard from him who heard from him who heard from her who heard from her frickin grand ma.
Bomb me - it's online dude, do you really think I care.
But don't get all upset because not everyone sticks to what you are saying
littleb
New member
bro,, ok then tell the truth about it, like the fact slin use when not needed can lead to diabetis, or that one mis calculation could lead to death, or that if not timed and used right chances are you will just gain fat.....
i would guess 98% of bros on this board are not ready/ should not be using it.. now as far as me hearing my info from grandma, its actually in medical journals, you can look it up...
lastly, i really dont care if anybody listens to me, i DO NOT post on shit i dont know about, and if i do i say i am not sure,, so when i do post take my advice or leave it,, dont bother me one lil bit........
Cardinal Slin
New member
seems to be a discussion board yet you seem not to want to get in to discussion.
so when using test, you think you natural t production wont stop? you think its always as easy as taking some pct and getting it back to normal? doesnt work like that in everyone.
when using gh, thryoid hormone etc etc - we all face this problem, there are always risks involved when using hormones for the sake of improving yourself/ourselves.
some people take more risks than others and if using insulin, yes, that risk is enhanced but if used correctly and diet is as it should be, gaining fat should not be an issue.
personally, I dont think anyone should be using insulin but I do use it, I don't think bodybuilders should but they do, the government does not think you should be using steroids but you do, the cycle is never ending but while these substances are out there, people will always be taking them and if I hear what I think is wrong about it on this site, I will state that to get involved in a discussion.
once again i reiterate, please read through my thread and quote me if I ever recommended insulin use.
so when using test, you think you natural t production wont stop? you think its always as easy as taking some pct and getting it back to normal? doesnt work like that in everyone.
when using gh, thryoid hormone etc etc - we all face this problem, there are always risks involved when using hormones for the sake of improving yourself/ourselves.
some people take more risks than others and if using insulin, yes, that risk is enhanced but if used correctly and diet is as it should be, gaining fat should not be an issue.
personally, I dont think anyone should be using insulin but I do use it, I don't think bodybuilders should but they do, the government does not think you should be using steroids but you do, the cycle is never ending but while these substances are out there, people will always be taking them and if I hear what I think is wrong about it on this site, I will state that to get involved in a discussion.
once again i reiterate, please read through my thread and quote me if I ever recommended insulin use.
I am not doubt the efficacy of insulin
I am just saying there are much wiser and safer and more productive ways to use it when stacking it with other synergistic compounds such as growth hormone and T3.
littleb
New member
littleb
New member
in a nut shell what i am saying is by you defending that it can be ok to use, newbs are going to try it which is bad bad bad... cmon bro newbs have stuck test into thier asshole b4 its any bros responsabilty with some knowledge to try to protect stupid mistakes from newbs that could further harm us all.....
aquatic_glories
New member
bump. this should be the official slin thread.
Just wanna ask few questions.
Did anybody use it post-cycle to keep gains?? Or in overall, is it better to use it during an AAS cycle and accept to lose some muscle?
Thanks
Just wanna ask few questions.
Did anybody use it post-cycle to keep gains?? Or in overall, is it better to use it during an AAS cycle and accept to lose some muscle?
Thanks
aquatic_glories
New member
I mean losing mass after a cycle of AAS and slin, stupid pc didnt let me edit
Cardinal Slin
New member
Sorry but this post doesn't have any kind of information to make it an official insulin thread.
It is nothing more than a load of people telling you if you use it, you will die (which is quite a minute, well a very large minute possibility).
It is nothing more than a load of people telling you if you use it, you will die (which is quite a minute, well a very large minute possibility).
my training partner has used it in the last 8 months with tremendous gains. he knows his body and was ready to go when he did it. the amount of research he did was ridiculous. thats why he can use it safely and effectively. if you want to run insulin, learn it in and out and always have a pre-packed bag of hard candies, dex and water, coke, etc. with you in your gym locker/car.
he started out with 6 iu pwo. hes up to 12iu in his most recent month. hes also on a good amount of other gear too. the insulin made a huge difference though.
NOT A NEWBIE/GYM RAT DRUG. THIS SHIT IS FOR THE HARDCORE ONLY.
he started out with 6 iu pwo. hes up to 12iu in his most recent month. hes also on a good amount of other gear too. the insulin made a huge difference though.
NOT A NEWBIE/GYM RAT DRUG. THIS SHIT IS FOR THE HARDCORE ONLY.
goal200
New member
I understand the sides of this argument/conversation and I agree with points on both sides. If it were safe to have an honest conversation about slin without the worries of some newb killing himself, this thread might actually help some of the vets make some decisions about their own use....but the fact is that EF is the most visited BB forum on the net, and it has more newbs than any other board...so MANY MANY of the readers of this would read "20 lbs in a few weeks" and dangerously load up that U100 and go to town. I hope that's not the case but the people fighting with cardinal slin are trying to protect these newbs.
That being said, I've run slin up to 12iu/day and seen the results. Yes, it shuttles whatever you eat directly into storage and/or your muscles, so if you eat fat, you get fat. If you eat good carbs and lean protein, your muscles will grow quickly. It's amazing stuff AND SHOULD NOT BE USED RECKLESSLY OR BY ANYONE WHO HASNT READ EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON FOR AT LEAST A YEAR!!
Discussion forums are great places to learn, but threads where no one wants to answer the question become nothing but name calling and flaming. In the case of insulin, it is to be expected that most "bros" will say "Don't do it, you'll die!" but maybe the asker is an intelligent, well-trained individual trying to learn from the vast knowledge on this board. Cardinal slin...you don't deserve to be bombed or whatever for answering questions when everyone else won't bother. Good job.
I've read hundreds of articles and trained with many different guys who have ran slin, and I was still excited to read this thread since the issue of insulin-only cycles isnt discussed very often. The dangers are many, and should be noted, but maybe we should all ANSWER the question and DISCUSS the slin-only topic too??! We are all here to learn, right?
That being said, I've run slin up to 12iu/day and seen the results. Yes, it shuttles whatever you eat directly into storage and/or your muscles, so if you eat fat, you get fat. If you eat good carbs and lean protein, your muscles will grow quickly. It's amazing stuff AND SHOULD NOT BE USED RECKLESSLY OR BY ANYONE WHO HASNT READ EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON FOR AT LEAST A YEAR!!
Discussion forums are great places to learn, but threads where no one wants to answer the question become nothing but name calling and flaming. In the case of insulin, it is to be expected that most "bros" will say "Don't do it, you'll die!" but maybe the asker is an intelligent, well-trained individual trying to learn from the vast knowledge on this board. Cardinal slin...you don't deserve to be bombed or whatever for answering questions when everyone else won't bother. Good job.
I've read hundreds of articles and trained with many different guys who have ran slin, and I was still excited to read this thread since the issue of insulin-only cycles isnt discussed very often. The dangers are many, and should be noted, but maybe we should all ANSWER the question and DISCUSS the slin-only topic too??! We are all here to learn, right?
sugashane
New member
Ok, lets cut the bullshit. I think insulin is the strongest anabolic agent there is. BUT, with its potencty, it has other risks. Here is a post made by Mr. BMJ:
"Monster's Insulin Primer
Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if you're ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...
ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC
ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protein, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.
ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.
ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC
"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, Anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isn't always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.
INSULIN: Non-Androgenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...
WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefore anabolic!
WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN
Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insulin (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.
WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
I'm a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humulin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulin's, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you don't want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humulin-L and Humulin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I don't like to gain any unnecessary fat, so I'm going to discuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat don't go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thing you have to try for yourself, and if it works for you, do it. If you think you're gaining fat, stop. BUT! Don't start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.
DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commonly held perception that you Must take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, they're both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didn't even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, maybe everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesn't make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
HOW DO I DO IT
If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probably wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protein and little to know fat can be anything from a protein drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you don't need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustomed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. I've went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesn't yield any better results (except fat!)
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Insulin is relatively safe. If you don't take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENTY of warning! You'll feel dizzy, tired, achy... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times you've tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) That's why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, you'll get a warning from your body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where you're nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. You're still a long long way from any major danger, but don't mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plague! Insulin's partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protein to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! ( That's another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)"
Thats a great and informative post. If you did not know 90% of the base of that, then you have NO RIGHT to do insulin. As for going hypoglycemic and then going into a coma and dying, that is not instantaneous. You should know the symptoms of going hypo before taking the stuff. If not than you are severly ignorant. Once you start feeling dizzy, tired and all that, drink a high carb drink. Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't constantly have one with you for 4-5 hours after the injection (in case the insulin may peak again).
People say its dangerous, and rightfully so as it is, but I'd rather take my chances with insulin than driving drunk. There is an intelligent way to take it. But if you have to reference anything, or look up something "just in case" than you ARE NOT READY TO USE IT.
"Monster's Insulin Primer
Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if you're ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...
ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC
ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protein, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.
ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.
ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC
"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, Anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isn't always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.
INSULIN: Non-Androgenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...
WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefore anabolic!
WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN
Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insulin (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.
WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
I'm a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humulin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulin's, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you don't want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humulin-L and Humulin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I don't like to gain any unnecessary fat, so I'm going to discuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat don't go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thing you have to try for yourself, and if it works for you, do it. If you think you're gaining fat, stop. BUT! Don't start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.
DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commonly held perception that you Must take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, they're both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didn't even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, maybe everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesn't make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
HOW DO I DO IT
If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probably wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protein and little to know fat can be anything from a protein drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you don't need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustomed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. I've went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesn't yield any better results (except fat!)
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Insulin is relatively safe. If you don't take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENTY of warning! You'll feel dizzy, tired, achy... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times you've tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) That's why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, you'll get a warning from your body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where you're nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. You're still a long long way from any major danger, but don't mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plague! Insulin's partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protein to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! ( That's another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)"
Thats a great and informative post. If you did not know 90% of the base of that, then you have NO RIGHT to do insulin. As for going hypoglycemic and then going into a coma and dying, that is not instantaneous. You should know the symptoms of going hypo before taking the stuff. If not than you are severly ignorant. Once you start feeling dizzy, tired and all that, drink a high carb drink. Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't constantly have one with you for 4-5 hours after the injection (in case the insulin may peak again).
People say its dangerous, and rightfully so as it is, but I'd rather take my chances with insulin than driving drunk. There is an intelligent way to take it. But if you have to reference anything, or look up something "just in case" than you ARE NOT READY TO USE IT.
sugashane
New member
Cardinal Slin
New member
I am sorry to say this and mean it in the nicest way.
Your friend is stupid starting insulin out at 6iu. Should have started at 1 or 2 and worked his way up. 12iu is also quite high (I have done higher before) and I personally wouldn't recommend going over 7-8 twice a day (once in morning before breakfast and once after working out)
aquatic_glories
New member
Cardinal slin,
I have remember you saying that you lost about 60% of your gains (kept 40% so 60 lost then) after stopping slin. Are you sure that losing supercompensation the only reason for that??? Because 60% sounds high??
thanks
I have remember you saying that you lost about 60% of your gains (kept 40% so 60 lost then) after stopping slin. Are you sure that losing supercompensation the only reason for that??? Because 60% sounds high??
thanks
from all the research he did, he made the decision to start at 6iu. ive never met nor heard of a person starting lower than 5iu and that is not by any stretch of the truth a high dose at all. i also guess he isnt that stupid if he has never had an hypo issues even doing the doses he did.
Cardinal Slin
New member
About 60%, I mean there is no absolute way of telling for sure but at a guestimate yeah.
Insulin basically acts as a shuttle for nutrients allowing more for more intake. A lot of this uptake is with carboHYDRATEs thus ensuring a greater amount of water is retained. When you stop using the insulin, the force is not there anymore and slowly that extra water goes. It isn't all water though and some certainly remains considering the percentage of water in the muscle and also that insulin also increases the uptake of protein once broken down.
Cardinal Slin
New member
When using substances that are potentially dangerous, smartness would normally dictate starting at a lower dose and then tapering up to see how you react to it, the same applies to insulin. Going from 2iu for a first shot up to 10iu or 12iu as he did it would only take 10 days at most and 2-3 at least. No point in starting off with 6, patience is all it takes.
Not a high dose at all, I hope you are not trying to say 12iu is not a high dose.
With insulin there becomes a point by which more is not always better. I mean 20iu is not going to really give you noticeably more benefit than 10iu, if at all.
I know a professional competitor, who is a great guy, he knows what the internet is but doesn't really use it. He shoots test prop every third day, winny every 2nd day and laughed at me when I mentioned to drink the winny. He told me Anabol are used for mental patients and recommended another type of dbol instead. He is not stupid at all and he has won numerous competitions and is very well known. Doesn't mean he is right.
I mean if an 16 year old injected insulin and he didn't go hypo, it doesn't mean he is stupid but it doesn't mean he isn't either.
Personally at my 250 I know fat is more likely an issue when I go above 7-8iu and so don't anymore. I will do that AM and post workout (twice a day).
I am not saying my friend has done this or my friend has done that, I am saying I have done this and I have done that.
Word bro
When using substances that are potentially dangerous, smartness would normally dictate starting at a lower dose and then tapering up to see how you react to it, the same applies to insulin. Going from 2iu for a first shot up to 10iu or 12iu as he did it would only take 10 days at most and 2-3 at least. No point in starting off with 6, patience is all it takes.
Not a high dose at all, I hope you are not trying to say 12iu is not a high dose.
With insulin there becomes a point by which more is not always better. I mean 20iu is not going to really give you noticeably more benefit than 10iu, if at all.
I know a professional competitor, who is a great guy, he knows what the internet is but doesn't really use it. He shoots test prop every third day, winny every 2nd day and laughed at me when I mentioned to drink the winny. He told me Anabol are used for mental patients and recommended another type of dbol instead. He is not stupid at all and he has won numerous competitions and is very well known. Doesn't mean he is right.
I mean if an 16 year old injected insulin and he didn't go hypo, it doesn't mean he is stupid but it doesn't mean he isn't either.
Personally at my 250 I know fat is more likely an issue when I go above 7-8iu and so don't anymore. I will do that AM and post workout (twice a day).
I am not saying my friend has done this or my friend has done that, I am saying I have done this and I have done that.
Word bro
i can see your side. definately have a point.
lostinfitness
New member
the bros here said it best, too much = too short life. don't bother bro, unless you 100% absolutely know what you are doing. By the detail and description in your post, it doesn't seem that way.
LosT
LosT
aquatic_glories
New member
Bro, how can you compare insulin water gains to AAS water gains?? ARe they similar?? Do you feel much smaller and weaker after that water goes?? But I believe muscle mass is perminant with good training and diet, right??
Thanks
