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Insulin only cycle
- Thread starter chaos13
- Start date
littleb
New member
in a nut shell what i am saying is by you defending that it can be ok to use, newbs are going to try it which is bad bad bad... cmon bro newbs have stuck test into thier asshole b4 its any bros responsabilty with some knowledge to try to protect stupid mistakes from newbs that could further harm us all.....
aquatic_glories
New member
bump. this should be the official slin thread.
Just wanna ask few questions.
Did anybody use it post-cycle to keep gains?? Or in overall, is it better to use it during an AAS cycle and accept to lose some muscle?
Thanks
Just wanna ask few questions.
Did anybody use it post-cycle to keep gains?? Or in overall, is it better to use it during an AAS cycle and accept to lose some muscle?
Thanks
aquatic_glories
New member
I mean losing mass after a cycle of AAS and slin, stupid pc didnt let me edit
Cardinal Slin
New member
Sorry but this post doesn't have any kind of information to make it an official insulin thread.
It is nothing more than a load of people telling you if you use it, you will die (which is quite a minute, well a very large minute possibility).
It is nothing more than a load of people telling you if you use it, you will die (which is quite a minute, well a very large minute possibility).
my training partner has used it in the last 8 months with tremendous gains. he knows his body and was ready to go when he did it. the amount of research he did was ridiculous. thats why he can use it safely and effectively. if you want to run insulin, learn it in and out and always have a pre-packed bag of hard candies, dex and water, coke, etc. with you in your gym locker/car.
he started out with 6 iu pwo. hes up to 12iu in his most recent month. hes also on a good amount of other gear too. the insulin made a huge difference though.
NOT A NEWBIE/GYM RAT DRUG. THIS SHIT IS FOR THE HARDCORE ONLY.
he started out with 6 iu pwo. hes up to 12iu in his most recent month. hes also on a good amount of other gear too. the insulin made a huge difference though.
NOT A NEWBIE/GYM RAT DRUG. THIS SHIT IS FOR THE HARDCORE ONLY.
goal200
New member
I understand the sides of this argument/conversation and I agree with points on both sides. If it were safe to have an honest conversation about slin without the worries of some newb killing himself, this thread might actually help some of the vets make some decisions about their own use....but the fact is that EF is the most visited BB forum on the net, and it has more newbs than any other board...so MANY MANY of the readers of this would read "20 lbs in a few weeks" and dangerously load up that U100 and go to town. I hope that's not the case but the people fighting with cardinal slin are trying to protect these newbs.
That being said, I've run slin up to 12iu/day and seen the results. Yes, it shuttles whatever you eat directly into storage and/or your muscles, so if you eat fat, you get fat. If you eat good carbs and lean protein, your muscles will grow quickly. It's amazing stuff AND SHOULD NOT BE USED RECKLESSLY OR BY ANYONE WHO HASNT READ EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON FOR AT LEAST A YEAR!!
Discussion forums are great places to learn, but threads where no one wants to answer the question become nothing but name calling and flaming. In the case of insulin, it is to be expected that most "bros" will say "Don't do it, you'll die!" but maybe the asker is an intelligent, well-trained individual trying to learn from the vast knowledge on this board. Cardinal slin...you don't deserve to be bombed or whatever for answering questions when everyone else won't bother. Good job.
I've read hundreds of articles and trained with many different guys who have ran slin, and I was still excited to read this thread since the issue of insulin-only cycles isnt discussed very often. The dangers are many, and should be noted, but maybe we should all ANSWER the question and DISCUSS the slin-only topic too??! We are all here to learn, right?
That being said, I've run slin up to 12iu/day and seen the results. Yes, it shuttles whatever you eat directly into storage and/or your muscles, so if you eat fat, you get fat. If you eat good carbs and lean protein, your muscles will grow quickly. It's amazing stuff AND SHOULD NOT BE USED RECKLESSLY OR BY ANYONE WHO HASNT READ EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON FOR AT LEAST A YEAR!!
Discussion forums are great places to learn, but threads where no one wants to answer the question become nothing but name calling and flaming. In the case of insulin, it is to be expected that most "bros" will say "Don't do it, you'll die!" but maybe the asker is an intelligent, well-trained individual trying to learn from the vast knowledge on this board. Cardinal slin...you don't deserve to be bombed or whatever for answering questions when everyone else won't bother. Good job.
I've read hundreds of articles and trained with many different guys who have ran slin, and I was still excited to read this thread since the issue of insulin-only cycles isnt discussed very often. The dangers are many, and should be noted, but maybe we should all ANSWER the question and DISCUSS the slin-only topic too??! We are all here to learn, right?
sugashane
New member
Ok, lets cut the bullshit. I think insulin is the strongest anabolic agent there is. BUT, with its potencty, it has other risks. Here is a post made by Mr. BMJ:
"Monster's Insulin Primer
Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if you're ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...
ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC
ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protein, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.
ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.
ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC
"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, Anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isn't always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.
INSULIN: Non-Androgenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...
WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefore anabolic!
WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN
Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insulin (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.
WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
I'm a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humulin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulin's, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you don't want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humulin-L and Humulin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I don't like to gain any unnecessary fat, so I'm going to discuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat don't go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thing you have to try for yourself, and if it works for you, do it. If you think you're gaining fat, stop. BUT! Don't start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.
DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commonly held perception that you Must take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, they're both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didn't even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, maybe everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesn't make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
HOW DO I DO IT
If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probably wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protein and little to know fat can be anything from a protein drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you don't need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustomed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. I've went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesn't yield any better results (except fat!)
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Insulin is relatively safe. If you don't take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENTY of warning! You'll feel dizzy, tired, achy... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times you've tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) That's why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, you'll get a warning from your body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where you're nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. You're still a long long way from any major danger, but don't mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plague! Insulin's partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protein to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! ( That's another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)"
Thats a great and informative post. If you did not know 90% of the base of that, then you have NO RIGHT to do insulin. As for going hypoglycemic and then going into a coma and dying, that is not instantaneous. You should know the symptoms of going hypo before taking the stuff. If not than you are severly ignorant. Once you start feeling dizzy, tired and all that, drink a high carb drink. Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't constantly have one with you for 4-5 hours after the injection (in case the insulin may peak again).
People say its dangerous, and rightfully so as it is, but I'd rather take my chances with insulin than driving drunk. There is an intelligent way to take it. But if you have to reference anything, or look up something "just in case" than you ARE NOT READY TO USE IT.
"Monster's Insulin Primer
Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if you're ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...
ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC
ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protein, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.
ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.
ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC
"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, Anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isn't always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.
INSULIN: Non-Androgenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...
WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefore anabolic!
WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN
Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insulin (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.
WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
I'm a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humulin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulin's, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you don't want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humulin-L and Humulin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I don't like to gain any unnecessary fat, so I'm going to discuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat don't go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thing you have to try for yourself, and if it works for you, do it. If you think you're gaining fat, stop. BUT! Don't start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.
DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commonly held perception that you Must take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, they're both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didn't even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, maybe everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesn't make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
HOW DO I DO IT
If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probably wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protein and little to know fat can be anything from a protein drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you don't need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustomed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. I've went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesn't yield any better results (except fat!)
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Insulin is relatively safe. If you don't take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENTY of warning! You'll feel dizzy, tired, achy... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times you've tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) That's why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, you'll get a warning from your body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where you're nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. You're still a long long way from any major danger, but don't mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plague! Insulin's partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protein to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! ( That's another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)"
Thats a great and informative post. If you did not know 90% of the base of that, then you have NO RIGHT to do insulin. As for going hypoglycemic and then going into a coma and dying, that is not instantaneous. You should know the symptoms of going hypo before taking the stuff. If not than you are severly ignorant. Once you start feeling dizzy, tired and all that, drink a high carb drink. Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't constantly have one with you for 4-5 hours after the injection (in case the insulin may peak again).
People say its dangerous, and rightfully so as it is, but I'd rather take my chances with insulin than driving drunk. There is an intelligent way to take it. But if you have to reference anything, or look up something "just in case" than you ARE NOT READY TO USE IT.
