Inner Chest

[Seattleite]

I believe I already said "lets agree to disagree"...


I still don't understand his logic...


He says since more weight can be done on flat bench its better...


then he says declines allow you to do more weight because its a shorter distance...

therefore...wouldn't declines be the best chest excercise according to his logic?

Okay..now I'm just being a smartass...LOL

The decline press puts your body at an angle where it allows you to move a slightly greater load, however it is really a cheat lift because the movement happens over a much shorter distance than versus a flat bench. This is why Rippetoe refers to the decline as "masturbation" for ego lifters...

 

[Seattleite]

Fuck guys. Can we all agree to disagree? Some of you guys need to see the big picture here. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

What's the problem? We're having a discussion here. No one has to read it if it bothers them...

 

[highlander555]

According to Arnold in his Bodybuilding Encyclopedia... blah, blah, blah...

(just thought I'd throw that out there before someone else did )

 

[ceo]

agreed, if you pull up youtube and watch videos of the biggest and baddest bodybuilders, i GUARANTEE 90 something percent of them are doing a fly movement, they wouldn't waste their time if it didn't do something construction. by no means are any of use the biggest baddest, but i bet on their way to the top they used most of the same movements

A few things to consider here also:

you are talking about the genetic elite.

These genetic elite are also taking boatloads of drugs.

most of them may have used the same movements (again, genetic elite), but I'd bet more of them built a solid foundation by going heavy on basic compound movements, and THAT is how they built a big physique.

if they always did a routine with multiple chest movements (flat, incline, DB flat, DB incline, and finally flies), as most people do, how would they know what one movement to attribute the bulk of their growth to? Answer: they wouldn't. Just because they "feel it" more doesn't mean that was their bulk builder.

If you took 2 identical twins at exactly the same development, gave them the same diet/nutrition plan, and gave one a bench and barbell with 400 lbs of weight, and the other a bench with a whole set of DB's up to 200 lbs, and made sure the first only did bench presses and the second only did flyes, and gave them a plan to progress using heavier weights each time their bodies could adapt to use the heavier weight for the same reps, and came back in a year...I'd bet everything that the guy with the bech and barbell with 400 lbs would have a bigger chest.

 

[desmond]

I don't think that's contradictory - it is analogous to saying partial squat isn't > than full squat because you can lift more, as ur using a smaller ranger of motion.

Common sense

I believe I already said "lets agree to disagree"...


I still don't understand his logic...


He says since more weight can be done on flat bench its better...


then he says declines allow you to do more weight because its a shorter distance...

therefore...wouldn't declines be the best chest excercise according to his logic?

Okay..now I'm just being a smartass...LOL

 

[mwm5]

A few things to consider here also:

you are talking about the genetic elite.

These genetic elite are also taking boatloads of drugs.

most of them may have used the same movements (again, genetic elite), but I'd bet more of them built a solid foundation by going heavy on basic compound movements, and THAT is how they built a big physique.

if they always did a routine with multiple chest movements (flat, incline, DB flat, DB incline, and finally flies), as most people do, how would they know what one movement to attribute the bulk of their growth to? Answer: they wouldn't. Just because they "feel it" more doesn't mean that was their bulk builder.

If you took 2 identical twins at exactly the same development, gave them the same diet/nutrition plan, and gave one a bench and barbell with 400 lbs of weight, and the other a bench with a whole set of DB's up to 200 lbs, and made sure the first only did bench presses and the second only did flyes, and gave them a plan to progress using heavier weights each time their bodies could adapt to use the heavier weight for the same reps, and came back in a year...I'd bet everything that the guy with the bech and barbell with 400 lbs would have a bigger chest.

i understand 100% and agree. i am just saying i believe that a fly movement has it place. i don't agree it is worthless just b/c it doesn't have the most direct impact.

 

[dabuffguy]

i understand 100% and agree. i am just saying i believe that a fly movement has it place. i don't agree it is worthless just b/c it doesn't have the most direct impact.

+1


Doing flies AFTER your pressing routine can only be more beneficial than just skipping them altogether.

 

[Seattleite]

Doing flies AFTER your pressing routine can only be more beneficial than just skipping them altogether.

100% fallacy

 

[ceo]

+1

Doing flies AFTER your pressing routine can only be more beneficial than just skipping them altogether.

i understand 100% and agree. i am just saying i believe that a fly movement has it place. i don't agree it is worthless just b/c it doesn't have the most direct impact.

Ah, but then why wouldn't you rather focus your efforts on an exercise that is more beneficial/has greater impact on growth? Instead of doing flies next, why not put a little more effort into your bench and go all out so you don't need to do flies next? If you know you're going to do flies after bench, are you holding back on your bench? Could you go just a little heavier? Could you get one or two more reps out? Could you do a 20 second static hold at the end?

Maybe instead of doing flies, you could do a single, 20 rep set of bench (using a lighter weight of course...say a weight you knew for sure you could get 12 reps with, but get 20 reps instead).

Any of the above would be more beneficial than doing flies.

 

[Seattleite]

Ah, but then why wouldn't you rather focus your efforts on an exercise that is more beneficial/has greater impact on growth? Instead of doing flies next, why not put a little more effort into your bench and go all out so you don't need to do flies next? If you know you're going to do flies after bench, are you holding back on your bench?

Bingo...