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I'm still standing.

P

pwr_machine

New member
Since joining Elite in mid-May, just a few short months ago, I have taken quite a beating. :lmao:

I recall the CNS overtraining debate, the high rep vs. low rep/lactic acid debate, and recently my opinion about some particular training principles (not the whole method, just a few principles).

I must get some satisfaction from the punishment? :D Then it appears each debate turns into someone's bragging right. I did this, I can do this, such and such did this, etc. It becomes almost comical at times.

Overall, it's been fun. I enjoy the solid, informative debates about training. I've learned alot these past few months. I truely feel that the better you can put a fight, the more knowledge you must have than the next guy or gal who just does what he's been told to do.

I can honestly say that I'm really excited about having so much knowledge (whether we agree or disagree) among each of you guys and gals right here at my fingertips. Thanks!
 
Seems like a lot of interesting debates emerge around here. . lol. Seems like we all stand strong ground and defend out methods. We tend to get upset is someone doesn't agree with our methods.

I think it is OK to be skeptical, but a person should always think about the ideas that are addressed.
 
Yeah, "cause so-n-so said so" never flies as a reason around here. New people have a hard time getting used to that. Most of the bragging rights come straight from the lifters on this board too, not what they heard some guy in a mag lifted. That first hand knowledge speaks volumes. If you're going to shed a negative light on something, you better know enough about it to back it up. That's what makes this training board what it is: A combo of first hand knowledge and critical thinking skills. Being open minded in word only won't help anyone learn. Think about it: if you go to a debate tournament and one team presents facts and examples, and the opposing team just gives their opinion based on what they heard, which team wins? Sure, there's no "right or wrong" when it's opinion vs opinion, but sometimes it's opinion vs fact, and someone IS wrong. These debates bring us all closer to knowing the difference, even for those who know it all.

pwr_machine, I don't think you take more or less of a "beating" than anyone else, I think you just take it more personally. There aren't a lot of emotionally driven threads in this forum, at least not negatively, where people get their feelings hurt. Everyone seems pretty thick skinned, even if only while they're logged in.

Your thread title is confusing. "I'm still standing." It almost sounds like someone has been trying to knock you down. When beanball read the last "debate" he commented, "Why is he so defensive?" I wondered that too.

Your post reminds me of when you're trying to tell someone they smell, and you say it half jokingly because you want them to know they stink, but don't want to piss them off. lol
 
sometimes the debates do get a little ugly around here, but for the most part its great knowlege by experienced trainers that is the base for the arguements...you cant help but learn from that. I was already an advanced bodybuilder with 10 years experience when I starting hanging out in this forum, but I know I've still managed to learn a lot
 
Hey do you guys want me to get the tissues out and then we can all have a big group hug, I get Spatts first..
 
Taking a beating...joke...hence the Title of the thread was to get your attention so people would read the darn thread, and see it's ok to disagree and have a good debate. And I'm far from taking things more personally than the next guy. It just appears that I am outnumbered at times.
 
:spatts: SPAtts your lookin hot here

PwrMachine you need to come to NazBarbell for a weekend :havoc:
 
MULE1 said:
:spatts: SPAtts your lookin hot here

PwrMachine you need to come to NazBarbell for a weekend :havoc:
Click to expand...

Believe me, I'd love to! Bigguns15 and I have talked about it before. I could probably give you guys and gals some tips. j/k It would be a great learning experience!
 
spatts said:
Maybe you and bigguns should go in September. ;)
Click to expand...

Wish we could. No funds available at the moment. Trip to Atlanta for Show of Strength and trip to Nebraska for Women's early next year. We'll keep the possibility open just in case something changes.
 
I think everyone around respects your knowledge about strength training, even if they don't necessarily agree with everything that you say.

There is something to be said about someone who is working on their Phd in this stuff.

Your knowledge is incredible.
...chad...
 
cheesecake said:
I think everyone around respects your knowledge about strength training, even if they don't necessarily agree with everything that you say.

There is something to be said about someone who is working on their Phd in this stuff.

Your knowledge is incredible.
...chad...
Click to expand...

Thanks Cheesecake. I view myself no different than any of you other guys and gals. We are all dedicated to strength training and would do anything to watch powerlifting and other strength sports continue to grow.
 
Mule, you are bigger, but I bet I run faster. I am going to outrace you to Spatts when we group hug, but discretion being the better part of valor, when you do arrive, I will smartly step aside and defer to the bigger man. . . hell, make that the biggest man.

Oh, and nice pic as always Spatts.

Thread starter, this ain't badminton here. You got a group of the roughest, toughest folks anywhere on here. We go to houses of pain, voluntarily and hurt ourselves on purpose. This is not a place where everyone is going to play nice.

And re: the bragging stuff. I heard it said that it ain't bragging if you can back it up. (I always disagreed with this, if you can't back it up, it ain't braggin, it is lying, but I digress) And many of the people on this board are competitors and a lot of us know each other. If I came on here claiming I hit a 700 bench in training, IronLion, Spatts, Hannibal, Project, DG21, AnimalMass, and many others would be the first ones jumping on me, cause they all know better, as they have all trained with me.

People, no matter who they are, are going to be defensive about the way they train. You can't expect otherwise. If someone said the way I train is a stupid or ineffective way to train, I myself would be very defensive, and would likely defend my methods by pointing out that in the past 2 years my contest bench has gone up by 195 lbs, from a 355 to 550.

This could be looked at as being hateful toward the person questioning my methods, and it could be looked at as bragging, but I think it is just me defending my methods and using the only evidence I know of to back it up. My own anecdotal results.

I can say with confidence that nobody on this board trains like I do at the moment. IronLion is probably closest to what I do, and we have trained together, and likely will again. If a "pure westsider" whatever that is, were to challenge my methods, I would defend myself. And I have no problem at all with westside methods and still use many of them. Just giving an example.

So get some thicker skin, realize this ain't a dainty world, and get in there and get after it.

B.
 
Benchmonster, this post was not directed particularly to you. It was just an easy one to respond to since it seems to go with the going theme.

benchmonster said:
Thread starter, this ain't badminton here. You got a group of the roughest, toughest folks anywhere on here. We go to houses of pain, voluntarily and hurt ourselves on purpose. This is not a place where everyone is going to play nice.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh! :mad: You know what's pissing me off? It's not the fact that we're having good debates and disagreements and I'm interested in playing freakin badminton! It's the fact that just about everyone is misinterpreting this damn post! I was jokingly taking a beating. It's amusing. You know, fun. Ever have fun? It's a learning experience when each of us are smart enough to go back and forth about our disagreements and present our own training philosophies and the techniques we use that we know work. We all train different! Duh!

And re: the bragging stuff. I heard it said that it ain't bragging if you can back it up. (I always disagreed with this, if you can't back it up, it ain't braggin, it is lying, but I digress) And many of the people on this board are competitors and a lot of us know each other.
Click to expand...

Should I post my lifting resume and my coaching resume to have my own bragging rights? Hell no. Been there, done that. The lifters I've worked with in the past speak for themselves. I don't need to follow them around to do it for them. My point about bragging is that someone always has a better story to top the next. You know a lifter that does such and such. Guess what, I know a lifter too that does such and such. That's the part that is kinda comical at times. I'd rather just leave it at the debate where this principle works or this principle doesn't work. Keep it simple!

People, no matter who they are, are going to be defensive about the way they train. You can't expect otherwise. If someone said the way I train is a stupid or ineffective way to train, I myself would be very defensive, and would likely defend my methods...
Click to expand...

Exactly. If you didn't have faith in your own training methods, why would you even bother training the way you do?
 
Well Powermachine, I did not think you were directing this thread at me, as to my knowledge, you and I have never even conversed on any subject. But since you have chosen to quote me above, in the words of Samuel L. Jackson "Allow me to retort"

In your first paragraph above, you don't take my obvious joke re: badminton, while in the same paragraph talk about how some of what is said here is in jest. Be consistent. The badminton comment in my earlier post was a jesting attempt to point out that this is not a panzy assed crowd. I assume you were not serious in your reply that you intend to take up badminton, and I am one of the ones on this board intelligent enough to articulate a point and differentiate between that done with tongue in cheek, and that done serious.

Re: your second quote of me. My quoted section there was not to say anything about "bragging rights" and your response to my quote seems to indicate that it was. I was pointing out in my earlier post which you quoted that a person talking about their own lifts is often a way of validating their own training philosophy.

You agreed with me that it is natural for a person to defend their own training philosophy in your last section, therefore I see little need for us to pretend to disagree on this point. I never said or indicated that a person needs to post any sort of resume, coaching, lifting, educational or otherwise prior to posting, and I don't particularly care for the way you tried to indicate that I had done so.

That being said, what a person has done, or who and how they have trained can at times be very important, depending upon the subject being discussed.

For example, someone who has never squatted 800, or trained someone who squatted 800, or even, indeed, ever witnessed an 800 squat, would be less likely an authority on squatting than say, someone like Louie Simmons, who has squatted over 800, and has trained numerous others to do the same.

Is it "bragging" to use your term for Louie to defend himself when someone attacks his methods, saying for example the following

Jackass Lifter - "Old man, you don't know what you are talking about, old fashioned western periodization is the only way to a big squat."
Louie - "well, I happen to know that it is not the only way. I myself have squatted 900, and have trained many others who have squatted in excess of 800, 900 and even a few who have gone over 1,000"

Now in this FICTITIOUS exchange, was Louie bragging? or did that deteriorate into a "bragging rights" situation? I think not.

If the above fictional situation is what you are referring to as a bragging rights situation, then I disagree with you. If however, you are referring to the idiots who always like to tell you about their uncles, old roomate from college's nephew's best friend who always seems to bench about 600 RAW, and squat over a grand, but never enters a power meet, then I agree with you. The braggards, if that is what you wish to call them have no place on a serious training board.

B.
 
pwr_machine said:
Benchmonster, this post was not directed particularly to you. It was just an easy one to respond to since it seems to go with the going theme.
Click to expand...

Your post summed up what others were thinking. It made it easy to reply to. I wasn't stating anything directly to you.
 
benchmonster said:
Well Powermachine, I did not think you were directing this thread at me, as to my knowledge, you and I have never even conversed on any subject. But since you have chosen to quote me above, in the words of Samuel L. Jackson "Allow me to retort"
Click to expand...


Fair enough. My turn.

In your first paragraph above, you don't take my obvious joke re: badminton, while in the same paragraph talk about how some of what is said here is in jest.
Click to expand...
 I got your joke. The point was that some of the readers were not getting what I was talking about. That was the only reason I responded. Reread the post, it was positive. When I see :lmao: I think funny. When I see :D I think happy. So why the negative turn?

Re: your second quote of me. My quoted section there was not to say anything about "bragging rights" and your response to my quote seems to indicate that it was. I was pointing out in my earlier post which you quoted that a person talking about their own lifts is often a way of validating their own training philosophy.
Click to expand...
 The point was that the argument could go on forever. This technique works for this lifter. Or another technique works for that lifter. It never ends.

I never said or indicated that a person needs to post any sort of resume, coaching, lifting, educational or otherwise prior to posting, and I don't particularly care for the way you tried to indicate that I had done so.
Click to expand...
 Again, it wasn't directed to you. It was an example of "my training method is better than your training method" or the other way around. Again, it never ends.

Another point is that there are people whose only reason for using a training method is because X number of lifters have squatted over 800 and X number of lifters have benched over 500.
 
I've been reading this thread ever since it started and have shyed away from responding. Pwr_machine's original post made sense to me. And, he was showing his appreciation to everyone for all the knowledge they have brought to the table. That being said, his words were still taken the wrong way by some.

benchmonster said:
For example, someone who has never squatted 800, or trained someone who squatted 800, or even, indeed, ever witnessed an 800 squat, would be less likely an authority on squatting than say, someone like Louie Simmons, who has squatted over 800, and has trained numerous others to do the same.
Click to expand...

Ok, I have to disagree here. Squatting 800 does not mean crap to me. I knew a lifter once who weighed over 400 pounds and squatted 800. Everyone was impressed because "Oh, that's so much weight!" Give me a break, that's not even double bodyweight. There are so many other variables to consider... what equipment was he wearing, was he using "supplements", bw, etc. But, I digress. I have never trained with someone who squatted 800 and I have never squatted 800. I have seen a few, but does that make me any less knowledgeable?
 
800 isn't 2x bodyweight for a 400 pound man? :confused:

J/K, had to give you hell. It's not fair for everyone to pick on pwr_machine and leave you out. :lmao:

Did someone say badmitton?

Bring Sally up, bring sally down... :garza:


Nevermind me...getting psyched up old school.

*spatts rocks out like cheese*
 
spatts said:
800 isn't 2x bodyweight for a 400 pound man? :confused:

J/K, had to give you hell. It's not fair for everyone to pick on pwr_machine and leave you out. :lmao:
Click to expand...
You beat me to it.

I was going to say something about fuzzy math. :fro:
...chad...
 
alright, so if i squat over 800 this weekend it will mean less becuase i weigh over 400, and its not a 2x bodyweight squat. its not like the weights get lighter when you weigh more.
 
Liftbig said:
alright, so if i squat over 800 this weekend it will mean less becuase i weigh over 400, and its not a 2x bodyweight squat. its not like the weights get lighter when you weigh more.
Click to expand...

That probably came out sounding like something I didn't mean. I meant that just because somebody squats 800 pounds doesn't make them the authority. My example of the lifter I knew couldn't tell me anything about squatting technique and there's no way I would have taken advice from him.

I wish you the very best this weekend!
 
spatts said:
800 isn't 2x bodyweight for a 400 pound man? :confused:

J/K, had to give you hell. It's not fair for everyone to pick on pwr_machine and leave you out. :lmao:
Click to expand...

The lifter I knew was 440. Well, that's as close as we could come. He always maxed the scales out. :D
 
I don't care if you train WSB, DC, HST, DFHT, or LMNOP!

I'm calling you out right now! You're training is absolutely nothing!

I challenge anyone on this damn board to a game of badminton, right here, right now!

Bring it! :mad:
 
.
pwr_machine said:
I don't care if you train WSB, DC, HST, DFHT, or LMNOP!

I'm calling you out right now! You're training is absolutely nothing!

I challenge anyone on this damn board to a game of badminton, right here, right now!

Bring it! :mad:
Click to expand...

I'd accept the challenge. . but I am not saying that I would win;)
 
you guys better watch out, i was a 4 time intramural badminton champion in high school. also i cheat like a bastard.
 
benchmonster said:
Mule, you are bigger, but I bet I run faster. I am going to outrace you to Spatts when we group hug, but discretion being the better part of valor, when you do arrive, I will smartly step aside and defer to the bigger man. . . hell, make that the biggest man.

Oh, and nice pic as always Spatts.

Thread starter, this ain't badminton here. You got a group of the roughest, toughest folks anywhere on here. We go to houses of pain, voluntarily and hurt ourselves on purpose. This is not a place where everyone is going to play nice.

And re: the bragging stuff. I heard it said that it ain't bragging if you can back it up. (I always disagreed with this, if you can't back it up, it ain't braggin, it is lying, but I digress) And many of the people on this board are competitors and a lot of us know each other. If I came on here claiming I hit a 700 bench in training, IronLion, Spatts, Hannibal, Project, DG21, AnimalMass, and many others would be the first ones jumping on me, cause they all know better, as they have all trained with me.

People, no matter who they are, are going to be defensive about the way they train. You can't expect otherwise. If someone said the way I train is a stupid or ineffective way to train, I myself would be very defensive, and would likely defend my methods by pointing out that in the past 2 years my contest bench has gone up by 195 lbs, from a 355 to 550.

This could be looked at as being hateful toward the person questioning my methods, and it could be looked at as bragging, but I think it is just me defending my methods and using the only evidence I know of to back it up. My own anecdotal results.

I can say with confidence that nobody on this board trains like I do at the moment. IronLion is probably closest to what I do, and we have trained together, and likely will again. If a "pure westsider" whatever that is, were to challenge my methods, I would defend myself. And I have no problem at all with westside methods and still use many of them. Just giving an example.

So get some thicker skin, realize this ain't a dainty world, and get in there and get after it.

B.
Click to expand...

YOUR DOING THE WORK OF THE LORD ME FINE BOYO, I COULD NOT AGREE MORE, IF I KNEW HOE TO GIVE YA KARMA I WOULD. GOD BLESS LADDIE.

I would like to go on record here, as saying I personaly dont give a fook what your system is, as long as it produces results for you so be it.....Know you'll have ta pardon me I've got a bit o corn beef to eat,,,,hmmmmmm and maybe a cold one I tost all of ye who work hard in the iron rooom
God bless and goodnight
 
It's always good to debate things, that's how people learn. Oh and louie has squatted over 900 :), and btw thanks Spatts now I have that damned song in my head, at least it ain't the alabama bam bam bama song lol.
 
JOKER47 said:


That was compliment, bro.:)

You're a bigger man than me, cause I doubt I would have admitted to it.....;)



Joker
Click to expand...

thanks for the praise. but that got me thinking anyways, now i feel like a loser for having played badmitton during high school, i mean if you feel embarrased to admit it than maybe its time to hang up my racket, and take down the net in the backyard. :bawling:
 
You're a good sport, Joker. You win a gift certificate to the:


chifront2.jpg
 
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