I'm really not a dick

[army_stud]

I agree.

I am denounced for sticking up for Vick.

I was also denounced for implying that the government had any responsibility for the Katrina disaster!

The government had the responsibility for the Katrina disaster? Oh my god, I want to see that post...anyone??

Vick fucked up, they will use him as an example. That's the responsibility you take on when you choose to be a figure-head in society. And yes, playing professional sports in our society warrants this (sadly so).

Stop turning everything into race. The same would of happened if John Elway got caught doing the same.

Stop being a liberal monkey and grow a pair of balls.

 

[Lestat]

agreed man, agreed. there are bigger fish to fry. truth is, we love to see people lose everything. their money, love, reputation, life. we're sick fucks. heartless sick fucks.

I got that karma for this thread. It was from someone who doesn't usually agree with me, loves to get his/her digs in, but at least can realize when someone is talking common sense.

He/She brings up an excellent point that I have not DARED even bring into the mix because its nearly impossible to defend, although we can all relate and realize it.

Its also what I consider to be one of the fundamental differences between myself and the majority of others.

Seems like a LOT of people out there love to see the big guy fall. When someone makes it big, whether it be through luck or hard work, people automatically want to see that person fail, break town, torn down. It brings people pleasure to their own lives, makes them feel better about their own mistakes and short comings.

I identify with that feeling all too well, I used to feel it a lot. I thought that the worse other people do, the better I look! I figured the more people at the top that fall, the closer to the top I get. That is a truly miserable way to live life and I have long left it behind.

I find that not many people share my view now that I want to see others succeed. I want to see others happy. Even people who I do not like or care for, I'd rather see them happy than upset or sad. I know it doesn't make logical sense to many, its just how I am.

If someone who I have NEVER liked comes to me and says they lost their job, or a loved one, I feel sympathy and genuine concern. It didn't always come naturally, but now it does. I look at us as a country, and humans as a population as one living and breathing entity. We all face the same struggles and challenges and all pretty much want the same basic shit.

We also all make mistakes. Some are bigger than others, some easier to forget than others, but I definitely believe in second chances, I know I've been lucky enough to get a few in this life.

 

[jh1]

You were killing the rats for a reason to nurture other life, which is anagolus to us hunting as a species. And there is no intentional cruelty, torture, etc - any suffering is not for naught - and not for someone's sick entertainment.

There is clearly a difference.

The rest of society recognizes that difference and made appropriate laws. There is nothing 'KNEE JERK' about it - it has been a thoughtful process by the citizens and legislatures of ~48 seperate states that say it's a felony punishable by imprisonment.

 

[Smurfy]

I've never disputed that what he did was illegal, or wrong, or even cruel.

The outrage and attention this is getting is an emotional knee jerk.

I have realized that I am just different then a lot of people in this regard, and its not the first. I don't think we should be putting people in Prison for cruelty to animals. Doesn't feel right to me personally. People automatically read that and think it somehow means I don't think that animal cruelty is WRONG, or that I support Vick's actions. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm different from a lot of people in a lot of other ways as well, and I think its usually a pretty positive thing.

Ultimately I look at the world as a place I live in and try to shape my views and opinions to make it a place that *I* would like to live in.

Let me use another analogy that hits home for me.

I used to have snakes. A lot of people thought this was weird. Only weird people had snakes in their home. Afterall, god punished them after the fall right? They aren't cute and cuddly. Only a weirdo would have them. I'd hate for a bunch of people to get together and decide that my care for snakes was a crime.

But that would never happen right... that is too far fetched.

Well how about how I fed them. Live rats, except I didn't want my precious snakes to get hurt, so I'd step on the rats until they were dead, or at least paralyzed. Sometimes I'd put them in a bag and they'd suffocate, or even the freezer.

All very terrible ways to die. I didn't like that part of owning snakes. You only did it once every few weeks, but still, I felt like the rats had feelings.

What if a bunch of people decided my treatment of those rats constituted a felony? Wanted to send me to prison for it? I could argue all I wanted but I'd be powerless against the emotional majority.

The weird thing is, I can still go out, buy a rat that weighs a solid pound or two, kill it in any manner I see fit and its not a crime, it'd never make the news, and I'd never get punished for it.

Enter jnevi and others explaining how Vick isn't being charged for his actions on dogs... ZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzz without the dogs, there would be no charges, period.

well i suppose it would be your own stupidity that would allow you to make such a stupid choice as to break a law knowing full well what the consequences are for it.
you act like he didnt know what the consequences were to his actions. or that somehow they suddenly changed the consequences and he is unlawfully going to prison. sending him to prison is not unlawful. its the consequence for his action that he knew full well. you keep using analogies but the fact of the matter is, like you said, killing a rat is not a crime (rats are pests BTW), so IF the law changed, and killing rats were to become illegal and you continued to do it knowing full well it's a crime, then cry me a river. that's your own fault for being a moron. and you deserve whatever punishment they courts give to you - whether that punishment is extreme by your standards or not.

 

[Lestat]

well i suppose it would be your own stupidity that would allow you to make such a stupid choice as to break a law knowing full well what the consequences are for it.
you act like he didnt know what the consequences were to his actions. or that somehow they suddenly changed the consequences and he is unlawfully going to prison. sending him to prison is not unlawful. its the consequence for his action that he knew full well. you keep using analogies but the fact of the matter is, like you said, killing a rat is not a crime (rats are pests BTW), so IF the law changed, and killing rats were to become illegal and you continued to do it knowing full well it's a crime, then cry me a river. that's your own fault for being a moron. and you deserve whatever punishment they courts give to you - whether that punishment is extreme by your standards or not.

again, I'm arguing about what punishments we assign to what crimes.

I do break the law frequently actually, I enjoy marijuana. Something that is a personal choice for me that a lot time ago a bunch of people felt like it was in the public's best interest to prohibit. I've often wondered what I'd do if I had to go to court for it. I understand that it is breaking the law, but I disagree with it. I do not think that generally speaking people should just break laws they disagree with. If I felt like it was appropriate, then what's to stop someone from thinking that murder was an ok law to break in some circumstance?

lol @ rats being pests. dogs are pests in some parts of the world too. For whatever reason we've given them near human like rights it seems when it comes to their treatment. thousands are put to death daily though, and apparently if its in a more human way its cool. I could even take my aging dog out and shoot him on a farm (if he was old and suffering) and it'd be all good.

 

[mountain muscle]

I've never disputed that what he did was illegal, or wrong, or even cruel.

The outrage and attention this is getting is an emotional knee jerk.

I have realized that I am just different then a lot of people in this regard, and its not the first. I don't think we should be putting people in Prison for cruelty to animals. Doesn't feel right to me personally. People automatically read that and think it somehow means I don't think that animal cruelty is WRONG, or that I support Vick's actions. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm different from a lot of people in a lot of other ways as well, and I think its usually a pretty positive thing.

Ultimately I look at the world as a place I live in and try to shape my views and opinions to make it a place that *I* would like to live in.

Let me use another analogy that hits home for me.

I used to have snakes. A lot of people thought this was weird. Only weird people had snakes in their home. Afterall, god punished them after the fall right? They aren't cute and cuddly. Only a weirdo would have them. I'd hate for a bunch of people to get together and decide that my care for snakes was a crime.

But that would never happen right... that is too far fetched.

Well how about how I fed them. Live rats, except I didn't want my precious snakes to get hurt, so I'd step on the rats until they were dead, or at least paralyzed. Sometimes I'd put them in a bag and they'd suffocate, or even the freezer.

All very terrible ways to die. I didn't like that part of owning snakes. You only did it once every few weeks, but still, I felt like the rats had feelings.

What if a bunch of people decided my treatment of those rats constituted a felony? Wanted to send me to prison for it? I could argue all I wanted but I'd be powerless against the emotional majority.

The weird thing is, I can still go out, buy a rat that weighs a solid pound or two, kill it in any manner I see fit and its not a crime, it'd never make the news, and I'd never get punished for it.

Enter jnevi and others explaining how Vick isn't being charged for his actions on dogs... ZzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzz without the dogs, there would be no charges, period.

He pled out on the FEDERAL dog fighting charges because the other charges had bigger penalties.

A rat analogy? Ask someone from NEw York on that one.

Again, he is being charged because he broke the law, well a few of them.

 

[Lestat]

He pled out on the FEDERAL dog fighting charges because the other charges had bigger penalties.

A rat analogy? Ask someone from NEw York on that one.

Again, he is being charged because he broke the law, well a few of them.

he should be charged, and punished. i think prison time is too severe for his case though.

 

[mountain muscle]

he should be charged, and punished. i think prison time is too severe for his case though.

Which part? You like to make a big deal out of the dog cruelty.


You can get jail time for enough speeding tickets.

 

[Lestat]

Which part? You like to make a big deal out of the dog cruelty.


You can get jail time for enough speeding tickets.

yeah, I think at some point you have to put a larger penalty out there or else what is to stop someone from never paying their tickets?

I think for the dog cruelty/fighting he should get some major fines and service work.

For the conspiracy/gambling, I'd do whatever other people have gotten punished for similar offenses and dollar amounts. I don't think there are a lot of people doing prison time for gambling rings that deal in the 25,000 range and below, but maybe I am wrong.

Also, this is his first offense right? Any other criminal record? Are there any "victims" at all in this crime? Anyone who can show damages? That was de frauded?

That is my big issue I guess. I've never been a fan of stiff penalties for "victimless crimes" which is what this is right?

If he had children kidnapped and fighting each other until the death and then executed them, I'd say life in prison (even the death penalty if I wasn't opposed to it on principle).

 

[PICK3]

"The World According to Lestat"

He has it all figured out.

just sayin