If you want to double your gains then double your dose.

[Mavy]

K, lets get something straight here. Its absurd to say that doubling your dosage wont expose you to more sides. If it can double your gains, you can garantee that you will at least be more vunerable to sides (again this depends on the individual).

As far as newbie cycles go, I think that you are missing the point. When you are virgin to AAS, your body reponds to very low amounts. A pro bodybuilder giving a newbie advice on what works for them is rediculous. I beleieve that newbies starting out should go as low as they can if they are planning on running more cycles, because we all know that each cycle you do tends to get bigger. I think that a newbie will recieve great gains from a cycle that looks like this. A lower dose of test and some orals working in conjunction with it.

Wk 1-8:
Sust - 250mg/wk
EQ - 400mg/wk

Wk 1-4:
Dbol - 25mgs/day

Wk 4-8:
Anavar - 30 mgs/day

 

[wyld1g]

I'm sure it was posted without reading the article. If you look at 300 compaired to 600, doubling the dosage will only yield a small amount of gain. Not worth doing double because the differences are too small, and definitely not worth the risks.

 

[Fonz]

K, lets get something straight here. Its absurd to say that doubling your dosage wont expose you to more sides. If it can double your gains, you can garantee that you will at least be more vunerable to sides (again this depends on the individual).

As far as newbie cycles go, I think that you are missing the point. When you are virgin to AAS, your body reponds to very low amounts. A pro bodybuilder giving a newbie advice on what works for them is rediculous. I beleieve that newbies starting out should go as low as they can if they are planning on running more cycles, because we all know that each cycle you do tends to get bigger. I think that a newbie will recieve great gains from a cycle that looks like this. A lower dose of test and some orals working in conjunction with it.

Wk 1-8:
Sust - 250mg/wk
EQ - 400mg/wk

Wk 1-4:
Dbol - 25mgs/day

Wk 4-8:
Anavar - 30 mgs/day

No offense, but you will get NOTHING from that dose of anavar...specially for that length of time(Week 4-8).

Fonz

 

[wyld1g]

K, lets get something straight here. Its absurd to say that doubling your dosage wont expose you to more sides. If it can double your gains, you can garantee that you will at least be more vunerable to sides (again this depends on the individual).

As far as newbie cycles go, I think that you are missing the point. When you are virgin to AAS, your body reponds to very low amounts. A pro bodybuilder giving a newbie advice on what works for them is rediculous. I beleieve that newbies starting out should go as low as they can if they are planning on running more cycles, because we all know that each cycle you do tends to get bigger. I think that a newbie will recieve great gains from a cycle that looks like this. A lower dose of test and some orals working in conjunction with it.

Wk 1-8:
Sust - 250mg/wk
EQ - 400mg/wk



Wk 1-4:
Dbol - 25mgs/day

Wk 4-8:
Anavar - 30 mgs/day

Actually, I'm wondering if a newbie should stat out with one AS, but in a relatively high dose. Simply because the will be no built up resistance to it yet.
Clearly though, the article itself show dimished returns at work!

 

[BigPapaPump]

I think some of you guys are just anti-test. You're suggesting to use lower amounts of test BUT that it's ok to add in EQ, dbol, var etc.......where's the logic there ? The whole study that Ulter is referrirng to is about test only.

I have long expressed my concerns about newbies using multiple compounds. I think most of you are lumping the majority of your side effects onto the test part of the cycle, which is absurd. You can not honestly think that the sides would be less using 30 to 40 mgs of dbol a day vrs 600 mg of test per week.

If you're going to continue to use the 'side effects' angle against test, why not also look at the potential problems of multiple injections when running EQ or Fina? Fina is a safer alternative? All you need to do is be able to create the solution yourself, strain it, bake it and hope for the best, then inject every day! No thank you!

Refering to what a pro does makes no sense in this forum. I can assure you that the effort that a bigger guy puts forth is proportional to their cycles. There is a huge difference in your cycles and gear that you choose once you've already achieved any amount of size. You'll never hear of any pro saying that he wants to gain 50 lbs and cut at the same time. It is much easier to maintain your size than it is to gain it. I'll run my ususal dosages to reach my goal, then I'll back off some what to maintain, some of you would consider this a bridge, others just common sense.

Well, that's enough from me on this topic, sounds to me like we're almost back to the deca vrs test mentallity anyway. There will always be those out there that will bash test at any given opportunity...that's ok. It can stay a secret !

BPP

 

[wyld1g]

I can't argue with DA-MAN!!!

 

[Ulter]

"I'm sure it was posted without reading the article. If you look at 300 compaired to 600, doubling the dosage will only yield a small amount of gain. "

What are you looking at? The charts showing the gain in mass was doubled from 300mg to 600mg in all three catagories. That's why they concluded that a straight line was the most accurate model.
The total fat free mass gains at 300mg was 4kg the gains at 600mg was 8kg.

 

[wyld1g]

Maybe you need to learn to read...there was no double in mass!!! The lower half of 300 was 4kg and the uper half of 300 was all theway up to 7kg! The middle of 600 was 8kg! most of the 600 users were at or below 8kg. That is not enough to make the blanket statement of double dose, double gains! It is that simple!

 

[AlbinoAssassin]

Wyld1g, you pretty much hit the nail on the head bro!

 

[DTOX]

Oh god, I can't believe that people are going to start arguing about "outliers" in the data... Oh well, there are just some people that hold on to their ideas so strongly that they don't let the facts or truth get in the way!

Regarding multiple compounds, why *wouldn't* you want to use them if available? There are some very well known synergies between different steroids: dianabol & deca, winstrol & deca, winstrol & everything, etc. If you can get a bigger "bang" with less mg/wk by using multiple compounds, then why wouldn't you want to do that?!?