If Clomid Is So Great......

[Nelson Montana]

...why not use it throughout the ccyle to maintain T levels? Why not use it to prevent testicular atrophy? Why not use it in-between cycles as a T booster?

That's a rhetorical question.

I believe most recovery while on Clomid has nothing at all to do with the Clomid. I'd be curious how a healthy individual would respond on just Clomid. With all the so called irrufutable evidence on its effectiveness (none of which I've seen that was very convincing) I find it curious that no tests of this nature were ever done.

Any Clomid lovers willing to do a pre and post blood test after a "Clomid Only Cycle"?

 

[JarheadChiro]

I just scrapped the last of my PCT clomid.

Fucking depression was the worst.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Five-page thread starting right now. . . .

 

[r1]

Clomid alone is used as HRT/TRT by some doctors.

Some of the newer TRT medications in the pipeline are modified versions of clomiphene (clomid).

Doesn't that say enough about it's ability to raise Test?

R1

 

[JarheadChiro]

Five-page thread starting right now. . . .

Lol, Nelson is throwing out the gauntlet but...

This should be good, we'll all learn something.

I for one need other options, I have some ideas but, this place helps me tune it just for me.

 

[littleb]

...why not use it throughout the ccyle to maintain T levels? Why not use it to prevent testicular atrophy? Why not use it in-between cycles as a T booster?

That's a rhetorical question.

I believe most recovery while on Clomid has nothing at all to do with the Clomid. I'd be curious how a healthy individual would respond on just Clomid. With all the so called irrufutable evidence on its effectiveness (none of which I've seen that was very convincing) I find it curious that no tests of this nature were ever done.

Any Clomid lovers willing to do a pre and post blood test after a "Clomid Only Cycle"?

I agree to a point....... I have done clomid only pct, and recovered ok.. [granted not heavy cycle] I personally found a low dose of clomid [50 mg] a day with no front loading along with nolva to be my best pct..

now I would have to dig, but i will, as far as blood work goes, but i know for a fact I had a better FASTER recovery on nolva and clomid -- then i did on either alone.....

I will say clomid only pct was harder then nolva only, and longer, so too a point I agree with what you said, ,, but clomid still has its place....
thats my take...

 

[Triple J]

most of the time when people have bad sides its from taking too much ... studies show it is effective to raise T at just 25mg/day

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16422830&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum

 

[nisser512]

most of the time when people have bad sides its from taking too much ... studies show it is effective to raise T at just 25mg/day

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16422830&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum

I'm pretty sure I know what Nelson would say so here it goes:

Look... That study and all the other studies are bullshit. What you shoould get is BIG BLAST. DID YOU NOT SEE ALL THE SHIT IT HAS? One of the main ingredients is SEMEN FROM COW THAT"S MILKED from cattle MANUALLY BY SOUTH-AFRICAN VIRGINS!

DON'T YOU KNOW HOW POTENT THAT IS??

 

[JimBoy]

How many anti-clomid threads is Nelson going to start? We understand you don't like clomid, fabulous, can we move on now?

 

[H_T_]

isn't it a fertility drug?

 

[Mac173]

Why not just give this a rest instead of trying to convince everyone that uses it w/ success that it is outdated and no longer relevant to the recovery process?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well to answer everyones questions -- because it's good to look at alternatives, analyze options and question doctrine. Besides, there's always people new to the game who should hear about alternatives.

As for that study, once again, it doesn't say the reasons for the hypogonadalism.

I was just trying to add another spin to it. Don't like it? Don't respond.

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

Why not just give this a rest instead of trying to convince everyone that uses it w/ success that it is outdated and no longer relevant to the recovery process?

because he can't sell clomid. and if its still effective why would you bother trying all the 'herbal' supplements offered by this site?

 

[Nelson Montana]

because he can't sell clomid. and if its still effective why would you bother trying all the 'herbal' supplements offered by this site?

A really dumb answer.

I can't sell adex but I recommend that.

I can sell lots of stuff that I don't.

I recommended those herbs long before they were put into a formula.

So...like so many times before...you're proven wrong.

 

[krishna]

Who says you can't? Besides, what's the point of trying to recover while you're still on? Why not take your precious sustain throughout the cycle too? I suppose you could; and I suppose you could do the same with clomid, but it's not really going to benefit you any. High androgen levels play a major part in suppression, and as long as you're on, you will have high androgen levels so trying to recover your HPTA through estrogen suppression is a half ass attempt at most. There's a reason it's called PCT. Not sure what you're trying to show by this thread cause it doesn't make much sense.

 

[tin2]

I just scrapped the last of my PCT - post cycle therapy - clomid.

Fucking depression was the worst.

I did also, couldnt handle the depression.. sucks .. ppl dont understand uless they get it.. But then u gotta deal with crashing.. I've tossed my shit in 2 cycles before and jumped on a lose does of proviron to keep my libido and gains up.. since it doesnt suppress ur hpta, U can recover while on ..

 

[Powerbuilder333]

I've used a box of Clomid (24 x 50mg) from Greece by itself. Didn't notice a thing. This was before my first AAS cycle.
I used to get it dirt cheap, as it was subsidized by the Greek government. I eventually tried it every possible way, and the only thing I ever noticed was an occasional ache in my testicles.
I'm no longer a user of Clomid.

 

[krishna]

I've used a box of Clomid (24 x 50mg) from Greece by itself. Didn't notice a thing. This was before my first anabolic androgenic steroids cycle.
I used to get it dirt cheap, as it was subsidized by the Greek government. I eventually tried it every possible way, and the only thing I ever noticed was an occasional ache in my testicles.
I'm no longer a user of Clomid.

You took it before your cycle when you didn't need to recover so why would you notice anything? If I take aspirin when I don't have a headache I won't notice anything either. Get my point?!

 

[Powerbuilder333]

You took it before your cycle when you didn't need to recover so why would you notice anything? If I take aspirin when I don't have a headache I won't notice anything either. Get my point?!

No, because Clomid is supposed to increase your natural test production. If it did, it wasn't enough for me to notice.
I followed that initial failed experment with dozens (like I said it was dirt cheap) of more attempts to find a way to get results.
I'm just relaying my own personal experiences with the brotherhood of EF.
If you get results - great. Share them, and the newbies can decide to give it a try, or not. I think we both agree that not everything works for everybody?
BTW: If you take a aspirin without a headache, you'll still benifit from it's blood thinning properties

 

[krishna]

No, because Clomid is supposed to increase your natural test production. If it did, it wasn't enough for me to notice.
I followed that initial failed experment with dozens (like I said it was dirt cheap) of more attempts to find a way to get results.
I'm just relaying my own personal experiences with the brotherhood of EF.
If you get results - great. Share them, and the newbies can decide to give it a try, or not. I think we both agree that not everything works for everybody?
BTW: If you take a aspirin without a headache, you'll still benifit from it's blood thinning properties

Ya but blood thinning is not something you really notice. Clomid would increase test at minimal amounts at most in a fully recovered person, which again, is not something you'd really notice. It's purpose in the bodybuilding world is to help someone recover from test suppression.

 

[Papa Lion]

...why not use it throughout the ccyle to maintain T levels? Why not use it to prevent testicular atrophy? Why not use it in-between cycles as a T booster?

That's a rhetorical question.

I believe most recovery while on Clomid has nothing at all to do with the Clomid. I'd be curious how a healthy individual would respond on just Clomid. With all the so called irrufutable evidence on its effectiveness (none of which I've seen that was very convincing) I find it curious that no tests of this nature were ever done.

Any Clomid lovers willing to do a pre and post blood test after a "Clomid Only Cycle"?

it was only rhetorical because you were starting another thread to push your products!!

clomid is used as P-C-T I shouldn't have to explain that to you... you've been here long enough to understand what it means!! and if you know anything about clomid you know that it works but that because of the sides ie vision, tracers or blurred that noone would wnat to take it any length of time beyond RECOVERY REQUIREMENTS... it DOES help, but I understand you have an agenda... good for you... we all need to put a penny in our pocket... but doing so at the health expense (recovery) of others is just WRONG!!
hope you got enough orders today that we don't have to see another one of these posts for a week or so... can you wait that long, or is the car payment coming due??? clomid is a reliable P-C-T for MOST A-A-S users and you always trying to knock it is ridiculous!!

 

[blut wump]

I'd read that it helps to boost ejaculate production too and that it was one of the secrets of Peter North's career.

 

[xrsist]

Ya but blood thinning is not something you really notice. Clomid would increase test at minimal amounts at most in a fully recovered person, which again, is not something you'd really notice. It's purpose in the bodybuilding world is to help someone recover from test suppression.

agreed. it helps bring your test back from 0 after aas suppression, and works very well

 

[boston789]

I agree with you Krish.

 

[mobro]

There are a few guys on here that, when they speak from experience, I listen. I don't think I have to mention their names either.

Why not start a thread about Dx7? we all take a multi vitamin. profit margin?

 

[billdance]

No matter if I'm on or off....I take it before a big weekend for bigger loads...

 

[Nelson Montana]

Who says you can't?


....................................................
THAT'S MY POINT. IF IT WORKS, DO IT. BUT IF IT DOES NOTHING ALONE, CHANCES ARE, IT DOES NOTHING.

...............................................................

Besides, what's the point of trying to recover while you're still on?

..........................................................

MAINTAINING A HIGH NATURAL T LEVEL WHILE ON WOULD BE A HUGE ADVANTAGE. YOU DON'T SEE THAT?

...................................................................


Why not take your precious sustain throughout the cycle too?

.........................................................................

IT'S NOT MY PRODUCT. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO USED THIS DURING THEIR CYCLE http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=110&cat=0&page=1 AND HAD EXCELLENT RESULTS.


..............................................................................
I suppose you could; and I suppose you could do the same with clomid, but it's not really going to benefit you any. High androgen levels play a major part in suppression, and as long as you're on, you will have high androgen levels so trying to recover your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - through estrogen suppression is a half ass attempt at most. There's a reason it's called PCT - post cycle therapy - . Not sure what you're trying to show by this thread cause it doesn't make much sense.
.................................................................

IT ACTUALLY MAKES QUITE A BIT OF SENSE. THINK ABOUT IT.

..

 

[slat1]

It works.
Spend a year of your life getting extensive blood work done on a monthly basis and you will know what works and what doesn't.
Especially when you are paying for it all out of pocket.
The question that begs to be answered is...
If it does not work for you are you using it correctly?
If not, how many other things are you doing incorrectly that you think you are knowledgeable about?

 

[Nelson Montana]

It works.
Spend a year of your life getting extensive blood work done on a monthly basis and you will know what works and what doesn't.
Especially when you are paying for it all out of pocket.
The question that begs to be answered is...
If it does not work for you are you using it correctly?
If not, how many other things are you doing incorrectly that you think you are knowledgeable about?

That must be it. I just don't know to use it. And everyone else who's had bad experience doesn't know how to use it. Glad we solved that mystery.

PapaLion: Stop being a pompous ass. I have helped far more people with their PCT than you, I'm sure. This isn't about product pushing so just agree or disagee with the topic and stop making personal accusations, okay?

Yeah, big loads like Peter Noth. That why everyone who takes it shoots like Peter North.
That was rumor started by Brock Strasser. An urband myth that will not die.

Listen folks, I'm just trying to present another side of the story. 90% of the people appreciate it , 5% don't give a shit, 3% disagree and find it interesting and then there's the last 2% who are just angry and close minded and find it necessary to make personal attacks and send me red because they don't want to hear a contrary opinion. It's really kinda pitiful.

One more thing....in none of those tests where T levels checked once the Clomid was stopped. Does it raise T and keep it raised? If so, there's a whole new way of using it.

 

[slat1]

That must be it. I just don't know to use it. And everyone else who's had bad experience doesn't know how to use it. Glad we solved that mystery.

If you think you are responsible enough to use anabolic androgenic steroids I think you should be responsible enough to know how your body reacts to what you use.
That said everyone should have their bloodwork done to see how their body reacts to everything.
Once you do that you can dial everything in to your body.
You may want to reread what I wrote. It was not directed at you. It was more a broad statement on clomid.
BTW. There is no mystery to clomid if you monitor your bloodwork regularly. You will know how well it works for you. At that point you can decide to try other avenues if you are not satisfied. Once you pursue the other avenues it would be in ones best interest to continue to monitor your bloodwork to see how your body reacts once again.

 

[slat1]

One more thing....in none of those tests where T levels checked once the Clomid was stopped. Does it raise T and keep it raised? If so, there's a whole new way of using it.

I didn't check the tests but I can give you some first hand experiences on that part.
I ran tren and test.
My test levels were non existant right after the esters clears. I ran clomid in the 300/100/50 fashion. My test jumped up (for me that was up to 470 ng/dl).
Once I stopped the clomid my test levels steadily dropped over the next six months. Finally, they leveled off at 302 ng/dl.
I had the same experience with nolv.
What I found by monitoring my bloodwork was that even though I "felt" recovered my test levels were in decline.
It would seem to me that I would have to run clomid or nolv for a lot longer then a month while I waited to recover.
Even with hcg/clo/nolv it took seven months to recover. Scary!
*I never would have know that unless I monitored my bloodwork.
**Everyone is different. While this was my case it may not be the same for the next guy... who in turn could be different then the guy next to him.

 

[Nelson Montana]

If you think you are responsible enough to use anabolic androgenic steroids I think you should be responsible enough to know how your body reacts to what you use.
That said everyone should have their bloodwork done to see how their body reacts to everything.
Once you do that you can dial everything in to your body.
You may want to reread what I wrote. It was not directed at you. It was more a broad statement on clomid.
BTW. There is no mystery to clomid if you monitor your bloodwork regularly. You will know how well it works for you. At that point you can decide to try other avenues if you are not satisfied. Once you pursue the other avenues it would be in ones best interest to continue to monitor your bloodwork to see how your body reacts once again.

Fair enough bro. I must admit, Clomid is one of the fee substances that I haven't had checked with a blood test. (I get one every 2 months).

You're right, blood tests are an amazing indictor of so many things and what make me realize that avenacosides were raising Free T levels!

The thing with Clomid was, it supressed my libido so badly that it was a non issue. Amy Winehouse could have stuck her ass in my face and I'd ask her to move because she was blocking the TV and I wanted to watch Sam Donaldson's opinion on the middle east crisis. That can't be good.

 

[slat1]

Fair enough bro. I must admit, Clomid is one of the fee substances that I haven't had checked with a blood test. (I get one every 2 months).

You're right, blood tests are an amazing indictor of so many things and what make me realize that avenacosides were raising Free T levels!

The thing with Clomid was, it supressed my libido so badly that it was a non issue. Amy Winehouse could have stuck her ass in my face and I'd ask her to move because she was blocking the TV and I wanted to watch Sam Donaldson's opinion on the middle east crisis. That can't be good.

You find out all sorts of stuff.
For instance I thought I was going to die (no joke) for a while when my liver values were 4X the high end of acceptable.
I was not taking anything illegal.
They kept going up and up and up.
We ran every test known to man.
Each time we ran one I thought I had that disease. It was horrible.
Once we looked at my diet we discovered the only thing different I was doing was taking Pure Vitargo.
I thought that had nothing to do with it since the label states it does not use the liver at all.
I stopped the vitargo and my values went back to normal!
If I was not monitoring my bloodwork I could have fried my liver.
I also would not have know all the science behind that product was bullshit!

 

[slat1]

The thing with Clomid was, it supressed my libido so badly that it was a non issue. Amy Winehouse could have stuck her ass in my face and I'd ask her to move because she was blocking the TV and I wanted to watch Sam Donaldson's opinion on the middle east crisis. That can't be good.

I cried once watching Full House because Kimmie Gibler ran away.
This was about two years ago!
I am blaming that on the clomid.
I really don't have any other choice!!! LOL

 

[krishna]

..

My point is that you can't maintain high levels of NATTY test levels while on steroids no matter what you take. I suppose you could with hcg, but even with that, it's still causing your body to produce it with an outside substance, so it's not producing it on its own, and HPTA is not restored. Doing this would in fact probably shut you down more in the long run.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I started off with a long-drawn out speech... but here it is in a nutshell...

Let the clomid-users have their clomid... let the people who don't want to use clomid be free to consider other options without any pressure. And let's just get back to more productive A A S board! Enough with this back and forth bashing already!

 

[Nelson Montana]

I started off with a long-drawn out speech... but here it is in a nutshell...

Let the clomid-users have their clomid... let the people who don't want to use clomid be free to consider other options without any pressure. And let's just get back to more productive A A S board! Enough with this back and forth bashing already!

Agreed. This board isn't just about a handful of vets hadning out advice to necomers. It's about exploring new ideas and investigating possibilitues. Now and then there's going to be some controversy. If you have a contrary opinion, voice it, and say why. But just bashing the poster because the info isn't what you want to hear is just childish and counterproductive.

 

[needtogetaas]

...why not use it throughout the ccyle to maintain T levels? Why not use it to prevent testicular atrophy? Why not use it in-between cycles as a T booster?

That's a rhetorical question.

I believe most recovery while on Clomid has nothing at all to do with the Clomid. I'd be curious how a healthy individual would respond on just Clomid. With all the so called irrufutable evidence on its effectiveness (none of which I've seen that was very convincing) I find it curious that no tests of this nature were ever done.

Any Clomid lovers willing to do a pre and post blood test after a "Clomid Only Cycle"?

this is a dame good Idea.I would love to see all the clomid lovers take a shot at a before and after clomid only cycle.....we have already seen post cycle,dermacrin,dermacrin sustain,unleshed and that is can even boost t levels and lots of other things even off cycle during cycle or after cycle.lol
lets see the tap dancing in this thread from the clomid lovers.

 

[krishna]

Agreed. This board isn't just about a handful of vets hadning out advice to necomers. It's about exploring new ideas and investigating possibilitues. Now and then there's going to be some controversy. If you have a contrary opinion, voice it, and say why. But just bashing the poster because the info isn't what you want to hear is just childish and counterproductive.

Agreed?????? Don't be a hypocrite! This whole thread was started by you trying to bash clomid.

 

[needtogetaas]

Agreed. This board isn't just about a handful of vets hadning out advice to necomers. It's about exploring new ideas and investigating possibilitues. Now and then there's going to be some controversy. If you have a contrary opinion, voice it, and say why. But just bashing the poster because the info isn't what you want to hear is just childish and counterproductive.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Agreed?????? Don't be a hypocrite! This whole thread was started by you trying to bash clomid.

So what are you saying? Clomid's feelings were hurt?

 

[needtogetaas]

So what are you saying? Clomid's feelings were hurt?

lol

 

[krishna]

So what are you saying? Clomid's feelings were hurt?

No I'm saying you're a hypocrite.

 

[needtogetaas]

No I'm saying you're a hypocrite.

not

 

[krishna]

not

He agreed that we shouldn't be bashing any products after he started this thread by bashing clomid. How is that not hypocricy?

 

[needtogetaas]

He agreed that we shouldn't be bashing any products after he started this thread by bashing clomid. How is that not hypocricy?

I thought he said we should not bash people.

 

[silver_shadow]

My point is that you can't maintain high levels of NATTY test levels while on steroids no matter what you take. I suppose you could with HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , but even with that, it's still causing your body to produce it with an outside substance, so it's not producing it on its own, and hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - is not restored. Doing this would in fact probably shut you down more in the long run.

i've been wondering about this as well. will clomid (or whatever else you might take) on cycle actually boost natty T production? i've heard HCG on cycle is beneficial to a point but what about stuff like clomid?

NOTE: i stopped using clomid after my first cycle. i didn't notice anything adverse, recovery was ok, BUT i stopped it after reading about it's permanent effects on eyesight... my vision is already pretty fucked up as it is.

 

[mobro]

..

sticky violation there Chairman !!!!!!!

 

[silver_shadow]

^^
wha?

 

[mobro]

Newbie read before posting sticky:

Please refrain from lengthy posts IN ALL CAPS, it is the equivalent of yelling and it is hard to read lengthy posts written in all caps.

Nelson likes it when I do this. and don't take it too hard Nelson. it was just a little jab to get you going.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Newbie read before posting sticky:

Please refrain from lengthy posts IN ALL CAPS, it is the equivalent of yelling and it is hard to read lengthy posts written in all caps.

Nelson likes it when I do this. and don't take it too hard Nelson. it was just a little jab to get you going.

I never write posts in all caps. I use caps when interjecting in response to a previous post because it makes it easier to decifer who wrote what. That's all.

 

[mobro]

I never write posts in all caps. I use caps when interjecting in response to a previous post because it makes it easier to decifer who wrote what. That's all.

did you guys see the size of that post?