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if AAS do not burn fat...

  • Thread starter Thread starter DepressiveJuice
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DepressiveJuice

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then why are primo, winny and var used during a cutting cycle? i dont see any reason to spend money on expensive AAS if you are on a calorie restricted diet. the only reason i would see to use them is to harden up for those who compete. but for the recreational bber? wouldnt test, deca, eq or fina be a better option since they are cheaper?
 
The first 3 drugs are commonly thought of as cutting drugs because they cause less water retention...but with the advent of aromatose inhibitors I think it makes them alot less appealing, even for those who are "cutting"...(simply because of price and availability)
 
hey term i wan t those tits on my face that are in your pic who they belong too?
 
re

ALL juice will help you keep your mass while on a resricted calorie diet as when training for a competition. some hold more waters than others so like the terminator said, expensive gear like primo and sometimes winny, might be out of the question when on a budget. thats where arimidex...etc comes into play.
 
Fina burns fat, in my opinion. It's happened to me twice. And I've heard several huge vets say that over a gram of test will burn fat.
 
This is a post from www.muscletalk.co.uk where this subject was discussed with a medical report.

You may find it interesting

Steroids are generally classified as those used for bulking and those for cutting.

Cutting steroids such as anavar for example are known to give lean hard muscle if used correctly and this is generally put down to the properties of the drug such as minimal water retention and smaller quality gains in combination with a good diet.

This may be the case but it is often stated that no steroids will actually reduce body fat which as the following study shows is a misnomer.



Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point.

SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups.

There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months.

ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat.

The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease.


CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.



TheDoctors notes:

Oxandrolone is Anavar.
Subcutaneous fat is fat under the skin.
Visceral fat is deep abdominal fat.
Potential for adverse lipid profile using anavar.
Would be interesting to know the dosing schedule used.
The title of the study could have been better and is slightly misleading.

Bottom line for reducing body fat, diet and cardio are imperative but it seems that some AS can help in actually reducing fat, in addition to their other properties


Wrongun!
 
slobberknocker said:
Fina burns fat, in my opinion. It's happened to me twice. And I've heard several huge vets say that over a gram of test will burn fat.

Here is another report again posted on same thread at www.muscletalk.co.uk

StJohn LC, Ekeren PA, Crouse JD, Schanbacher BD, Smith SB, lipogenesis in adipose tissue from ovariectomized and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and/or implanted with trenbolone acetate, J Anim Sci 1987 May, 64 (5) : 1428-33

Lipogenesis in adipose tissue from ovariectomized and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and (or) implanted with trenbolone acetate.

St John LC, Ekeren PA, Crouse JD, Schanbacher BD, Smith SB.

Forty-two heifers were allotted randomly to six treatment groups: intact controls, intact heifers implanted with trenbolone acetate, ovariectomized heifers, ovariectomized heifers implanted with trenbolone acetate, intact heifers immunized against estradiol and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and implanted with trenbolone acetate. Blood titers of estradiol-17 beta were increased over 100-fold in heifers immunized against estradiol in Freund's complete adjuvant or saline:squalene/arlacel containing Mycobacterium. Lipogenic enzyme activities and acetate incorporation into fatty acids were increased in subcutaneous adipose tissue obtained at slaughter from heifers receiving immunization or the combination of immunization and trenbolone acetate. The increased lipogenic capacity was not reflected in either cell diameter or cells per gram adipose tissue. Ovariectomy in combination with trenbolone acetate caused the lowest activities for all enzymes measured. This treatments also caused the greatest decrease in cell diameter, which resulted in the largest number of cells per gram of adipose tissue. Trenbolone acetate alone had no detectable effect on lipogenesis in the intact heifer, but the combination of ovariectomy and trenbolone acetate caused substantial decreases in enzyme activities, in most cases a significant decrease as compared with ovariectomized heifers. The data suggest that trenbolone acetate is able to depress lipogenesis only when not competing with the effects of circulating estradiol.

Wrongun!
 
thanks for posting those reports bro. im at work right now so i cant read them entirely yet.

correct me if im wrong but excess water is caused with with high carbs and sodium right? on a low carb diet, test should not give much, if any, bloating...?
 
maybe you lose fat because you work out like a mother fucker when juicing huge as shit. thats a lot of calories burnt.
 
MrMakaveli said:
Didnt Huck post somthing from F.S. about why winstrol burned fat? I'd love to find it but I'm not plat.

Yes would like to see that as well if anyone has?

Wrongun!
 
Originally posted by Huck.

Firstly, I will be the first to verify that winny use does cause joint pain, to say the least. The reason is twofold. There is a transport and removal of water in general from the organism as a whole, and any water that remains is generally utilized in the musculature as a matter of priority. Strangely, this does not seem to apply to the smooth musculature, i.e. the heart, etc. The water is quickly expelled from the body and the entire organism actually shrinks slightly, for lack of a better word. Remember, the body itself is primarily a hydraulic phenomenon. Secondly, the ligaments and tendons do not strengthen as quickly as does the musculature. Therefore it is a natural progression to overtrain the newly strengthened muscle without regard to the strain on the connective tissue, which is exacerbated by the lack of general lubrication caused by the agent. As far as site injections go, I can attest to the fact of localized detail, but not localized growth. I think that the water is transported more dramatically at the injection site for obvious reasons. Additionally, the local musculature would be more quickly saturated with the molecule, especially after repeated injections in the same spot. This translates in the real world to this: Inject in the delts every day and you will see a striated situation in short order, like, say, forty five days. Dosage is also a critical factor here. I get fantastic results with 50mg/day, every day. Sometimes I shoot 100 for about ten days at the beginning, just to kickstart the whole process. Some guys get the results they want with 100mg ED straight through for eight weeks. Anything more than that, in my opinion, is risky. Dehydration and cramping become an inevitability rather than a possibility as the dosage and duration are increased. Remeber also that winny is pyrogenic. So any fatburning suppliments you take will have a magnified effect when combined with winstrol, provided they are pyrogenic as well. Be especially careful when using clen with winny, because you are gonna cramp no matter what. Keep your lifts at the same weight they are now, even though your strength will improve rapidly with that combination. Another factor to consider is that winstrol is psychoactive. When you stop taking it, you're gonna be depressed, so be prepared for it as of now. I am a newly converted trenbelone acetate fan, as you may have noticed. This combination,(meaning winstrol and tren combined at the same time) to me, seems to be the most effective for ripping out. Naturally, a blast of test would be in order in such a combination, unless you don't mind feeling and looking like a sexless cyborg. Personally, I like just having the option of sex alive at all times if possible.
 
Counterstrike said:
hey term i wan t those tits on my face that are in your pic who they belong too?

she's only 14 bro, maybe 13......you don't want that trouble terminator is in already.
 
The Terminator said:


Do those look like the tits from a 13 or 14 year old girl? If any of you guys answers yes I WILL think differently of you....:good:

15....but i've seen those size nowadays with all the overgrown females in younger. shit that one girl i told you about had just as big or bigger and was 15....means she was 14 not to long ago. lol. i can tell by her hands that she is really young. :)
 
THE_BIG_FED said:


15....but i've seen those size nowadays with all the overgrown females in younger. shit that one girl i told you about had just as big or bigger and was 15....means she was 14 not to long ago. lol. i can tell by her hands that she is really young. :)

Is it the hands that make her look so young? She did have fine skin, but perhaps its more because they still stay up like that on their own (which is uncommon the older a woman gets.:spin: ), therefore one might insinuate that she is young...(but not THAT young...)
 
DO they or do they not burn fat? Whats the mechanism, the cause, Lot of academic masturbation about this.
EEEES very simple: before-more fat, after-less fat
Unless of course you go nuts with your diet
 
As quoted by Huck.

"Remeber also that winny is pyrogenic. So any fatburning suppliments you take will have a magnified effect when combined with winstrol, provided they are pyrogenic as well."

Heat=calories burned, so when looked at in that way...Yes it could be considered to have fat burning properties...

But remember that I could argue that any AS will cause an added increase in lean mass which will invariably cause more calories to be burned as lean mass is metabolically active, while fat is not...
 
Bingo!

jb



DepressiveJuice said:
thanks for posting those reports bro. im at work right now so i cant read them entirely yet.

correct me if im wrong but excess water is caused with with high carbs and sodium right? on a low carb diet, test should not give much, if any, bloating...?
 
Wrongun.. I f I understand correctly from the research made on the heifers it seems that Fina along with Nolvadex (Or Arimidex/Femara) WILL decrease lipogenesis ?
 
Read all the studies and you will see that fina along with estradiol benzoate led to increases in total bodyweight, decreases in adiposity. They do not add EB to the mix to create fat cows, it is to increase the feed efficicency and muscle accretion. It does lead to an increase in intramuscular lipid content(bigger muscles) however.

jb



junk said:
Wrongun.. I f I understand correctly from the research made on the heifers it seems that Fina along with Nolvadex (Or Arimidex/Femara) WILL decrease lipogenesis ?
 
jboldman said:
Read all the studies and you will see that fina along with estradiol benzoate led to increases in total bodyweight, decreases in adiposity. They do not add EB to the mix to create fat cows, it is to increase the feed efficicency and muscle accretion. It does lead to an increase in intramuscular lipid content(bigger muscles) however.

jb




hmm. anyone have links to these studies?
 
simple-because mild anabolics used while trying to lose fat will help prevent muscle/strenth loss, and at the same time they are less likely to cause you heart problems down the road-from doing cardio and using ephedra based products. problems like cardiomyopathy.
 
kwik95gt said:
simple-because mild anabolics used while trying to lose fat will help prevent muscle/strenth loss, and at the same time they are less likely to cause you heart problems down the road-from doing cardio and using ephedra based products. problems like cardiomyopathy.

Not that simple, but I despise ephedrin b.c I see pts with problems from it, although it does give good buzz when you havent taken it for a while. Cardiomyopathy (disease of the cardiac muscle) is related to several different factors lot of which cant be controlled. Several forms thick,thin, obstructive, etc... The one that can be controlled is alcoholic cm. I think ephedrine is more likey to result in 1) heat stroke (due to vasoconstriction) b/c the body is unable to cool itself. 2) abnormal heart rhythms that can kill or cause damage to the heart . We all like to think that heart formed correctly, but there is alot of variability out there that can be triggered by stimulants, the majority should be fine, but you never know if youre that unlucky bastard with a reentry loop in their hearts wiring.
 
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