I need some advice please.

[needtogetaas]

Dont use Nolva with deca? And IN CAPITAL LETTERS no less. Is there some heretofore unknown danger you're trying to imply? This is a new one on me.

shouldnt use nolva, but use aifm instead. OK.

I'll save the smilies, and just ask if you could please give a technical explanation of why as to both statements. with study references please.

Isnt mainstream thinking that progesterone gyno requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest, and nolva COULD help PREVENT IT? I've never heard or read of it now being a risk to increase the chances of progesterone gyno.

also, shouldnt there be a disclaimer in your sig indicating that you sell AIFM so people can judge the objectivity of the advice? Doesnt mean its a bad thing, just something people should know. doesnt that sound reasonable?

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well I have used nolva and vitamin b to help with anny gyno coused by deca myself.though on this cycle I never had a problem with it.I think ulter said use the nolva but also add hcg and clomid to the pct witch if thats what he said that grate advice.

 

[wootool]

Dont use Nolva with deca? And IN CAPITAL LETTERS no less. Is there some heretofore unknown danger you're trying to imply? This is a new one on me.

shouldnt use nolva, but use aifm instead. OK.

I'll save the smilies, and just ask if you could please give a technical explanation of why as to both statements. with study references please.

Isnt mainstream thinking that progesterone gyno requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest, and nolva COULD help PREVENT IT? I've never heard or read of it now being a risk to increase the chances of progesterone gyno.

also, shouldnt there be a disclaimer in your sig indicating that you sell AIFM so people can judge the objectivity of the advice? Doesnt mean its a bad thing, just something people should know. doesnt that sound reasonable?

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Bump for Ulter

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[littleb]

Nolva causes an increase in Progesterone expression. Deca is a progestin. Men's bodies don't like progestins or progesterone because they cause gyno, high BP, etc. Since there are so many better choices now it's better to tell guys not to use Nolva with Deca. If they are progesterone sensitive it's not good. And there's no way for you to know whether he is going to have a flair up or not.
The deca will be there for weeks so it's not good to use nolva for that PCT.

mmm ok, honestly that is the first i heard of that, i knew deca was progestin, I really never read anything about not using nolva for pct after deca cycle, I did that b4 with no problems., maybe i was lucky?
now you wouldnt start pct right away with teste and deca,both long acting, so wouldnt that be ok? i will try to read up on this.. and if i am wrong i apoligize to all

 

[wootool]

mmm ok, honestly that is the first i heard of that, i knew deca was progestin, I really never read anything about not using nolva for pct after deca cycle, I did that b4 with no problems., maybe i was lucky?
now you wouldnt start pct right away with teste and deca,both long acting, so wouldnt that be ok? i will try to read up on this.. and if i am wrong i apoligize to all

Yeah, Ulter is breaking new ground. But he hasnt come back to explain his novel theory.

And I think he's saying no nolva with deca neither during nor as PCT after cycle, which is not mainstream thinking. He's saying use his company's product instead, that was the punchline.

Bump for technical explanation and references from Ulter.

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[GymIntensity]

I think he meant dont use nolva to combat gyno from deca. So i assume he meant during cycle . I'm pretty sure PCT is fine because the point is to start producing test naturally again not combat the gyno from the deca post cycle.

 

[littleb]

I did not get a chance to research anything yet, busy weekend.... I pm'ed ulter last night, my biggest fear was maybe i missed somthing and got lucky on my cycles, and gave bunk advice... For the record i did not mean to ruffle any feathers, or give advice on somthing i have not done myself.. hopfully anyone that knows me on here knows i dont answer a thread if i have no exp. with topic.. and if i do i say i have never used such and such..
I been doing this a lil bit, but i am humble to the fact a lot of bros here know more then me, and have tried more compounds... so any more info on nolva for pct after deca+test cycle?

 

[LiquidPhire]

I did not get a chance to research anything yet, busy weekend.... I pm'ed ulter last night, my biggest fear was maybe i missed somthing and got lucky on my cycles, and gave bunk advice... For the record i did not mean to ruffle any feathers, or give advice on somthing i have not done myself.. hopfully anyone that knows me on here knows i dont answer a thread if i have no exp. with topic.. and if i do i say i have never used such and such..
I been doing this a lil bit, but i am humble to the fact a lot of bros here know more then me, and have tried more compounds... so any more info on nolva for pct after deca+test cycle?

Well Id like to know this also , because it involves me , thanks bros!

 

[wootool]

Well Id like to know this also , because it involves me , thanks bros!

you are on a test/deca/dbol cycle, correct?

your question re nolva at 20-40mg if you start to get gyno symptoms is the standard accepted mainstream protocol. If you start to get itchy nips, start to feel a bump under the nipple, jump on it. If Ulter has a better solution supported by science and mainstream practice, I'd like to see it as would you.


Most (if not all) gyno is estrogen related, from aromatizing compounds like test and dbol. anti-E's such as nolva will block the E receptors in breast tissue and prevent gyno, but allow estrogen to remain in your system to perform its other functions. aromatase inibitors let/arimidex etc prevent aromatization and thus eliminate the estrogen itself preventing the problem in a different way, but some say at the expense of some gains (estrogen is beneficial in many ways to growth which can be the subject for another thread).

Mainstream thought is also that progesterone gyno (if such a thing even exists) requires a small amount of estrogen to manifest. thus either anti-e's or anti-a's should address that problem as well.

Progesterone gyno btw is so rare that lots of knowledgable people in the game dont believe it exists, believing its just mis-read run of the mill estrogen gyno (including from rebound estrogen post-cycle, regardless of cycle compounds)

What IS real, is prolactin related sides from progestins:

1) inability to orgasm, or extended refractory period,
2) lactation, or
3) increased size and/or coloring of the areola (vs a lump underneath or itchy nips)

to address or prevent prolactin related sides from progesterones like deca/npp/tren/etc

1) winny will compete for the Progesterone receptor and thus concurrent use will help prevent any progesterone related sides,
2) b-6 (weaker more natural first-line approach) and/or dostinex (the sledgehammer approach) will either block production of or counter the effects of prolactin (dont remember which)


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[GymIntensity]

the rule for progesto or deca/tren gyno is to use dostinex . nolva wont help if gyno is brought on by the deca. Not sure if it will make it "worse" tho just not help.

 

[littleb]

the rule for progesto or deca/tren gyno is to use dostinex . nolva wont help if gyno is brought on by the deca. Not sure if it will make it "worse" tho just not help.

I knew about that, I also do not know if it makes it worse.......I was only talking about for pct. my thinking is even if you wait 7-10 days afterlast shot, how can nolva be bad? even though deca still be in system.. I may be missing somthing i dont know i tried to find somthing on it but could not.. only looked for a lil bit though... anybody????