I grew up in a world that didn't have cardio...

[SofaGeorge]

This may surprise some of you – but I grew up in a world that didn’t have cardio. We didn’t have a lot of things: computers, cell phones, pocket calculators, VCRs. These are all new things that didn’t exist when I was a kid. It was kind of fun to watch them pop onto the scene and become part of every day life. God, even CD’s didn’t exist when I was a kid. It’s been amazing to watch the different things that have come into our lives that didn’t exist – and how people forget we once never had them.

One of the things that truthfully didn’t exist when I was growing up was cardio. I'm not joking.

It wasn't until the late '70s that the jogging fad started... and aerobics classes were unheard of till the early '80s.

I believe it is pretty much a myth that cardio burns bodyfat, and nobody... I really mean practically NOBODY back then was caught up in the dogma of running on the treadmill or getting on the exercise bike to burn off body fat.

Gyms didn't have stairmasters until the mid-80s. Gyms did have exercise bikes... but they were a rarity... and usually a broken down thing tucked in the corner. Only a couple of us were nutty enough to ride them. You never saw a wall of exercise bikes or bike classes. Hell, you never saw classes. They didn’t exist.

The real hoot too was what we had instead of cardio... gyms would have whole walls dedicated to these belt machines that fit over woman's asses and were supposed to vibrate their fat off. No joke. There were a bunch of wierd ass things like that. You’d see 20 women lined up in the vibrating belts vibrating off their fat… or at least they thought. (It worked about as good as cardio.)

The most interesting thing about this was that people didn't have the concept of doing cardio for cardios sake... not until it became big business. Then some savvy marketers realized they could sell exercise equipment like treadmills and stairmasters... and exercise classes could boost gym memberships. Suddenly "cardio" was big business.

What is lost is what we did have then... the idea of PLAY. Guys would go play tennis, handball, shoot a game of hoops. Going rock climbing, or hiking with your dogs was all considered a good excercise day. People were "activity" oriented... and it was a much more fun and elegant way to do “cardio.”

I was always astounded that marketers were so successful at selling the concept of cardio. They sold it though at a terrible expense... society lost the concept of play.

It's odd because people nowadays don't realize it didn't exist. You will NEVER see a '50s or '60s or even a '70s movie scene where they show an exercise class or an aerobics class. You don't see any scenes in movies of people in the '60s jogging.

It didn’t exist as a concept then.

Cardio is a myth created by the exercise industry around the mid-to late 70s... and it exploded when people realized they could sell aerobics tapes and classes in the '80s.

Coincidentally - aerobics came into being when we got VCRs. We didn't have them in the '70s. When we got them in the '80s exercise tapes became a big industry... and we got aerobics cardio as the miracle that would help us lose weight.

If you had told somebody in the '60s that dancing to music would make them skinny they would have told you you were an idiot.

They would have meant it.

They hadn’t been brainwashed yet to believe cardio would burn off bodyfat.

I grew up in a world that didn’t have cardio. It was a better place.

 

[macDbol]

what did you guys do to keep warm before fire?

 

[Shinobi]

in my opnion a nosense post

 

[Themachine01]

who wrote this?

 

[stonecold54]

yep kenneth cooper created the running fad with his cooper institute. (advocating about 50 miles per week as ideal) right in the seventies right around when arthur jones was building his first nautilus circuit and proving that weight training could have the same effects if not better than "cardio". and now cooper turned his own statements around saying that over-exercising or running in his case hurt more people than it helped. there is a lot of wasted time in the gym and imagine how much cheaper memeberships would be if they did not have to buy and repair all those machines.

 

[Stillgoing]

.....Coincidentally - aerobics came into being when we got VCRs.

This is not coincidence my friend!! In fact, you have identified the root cause of this insidious plague, this evil, known only by the moniker...."cardio".......Its those fucking VCRs!!!...and of course their diabolical side-kick, that pure, unadulterated little slice of hell itself, beta-max......yes, the machines rose, and they spawned, oh god did they spawn, spawned like salmon....and with them came thier blasphimous little minions, the vcr tapes, promulgating sin, masterbation, rape, murder, and, yes, even worse, ......deviant, infectious behaviors that bastardized good christian folk and the dregs of society alike, such as the now infamous, ......."cardio"........

Good friends, we are truly headed towards the last of our days....this outbreak must be contained and eliminated......and once again, fat fucks will rule the world!!!!.........

 

[Bulldog_10]

No...there's some truth to this. I was talking to someone last year (i forget who, but he was an older guy) and he was saying that you'd NEVER see someone running in the street listening to head phones or whatnot back in the day. Anytime you saw someone running down the street, something was wrong. People didn't just run to run.

But the part about cardio being a fad, and a waste of time is rediculous.

Cardio came into existence because of our society. Once we became industrialized, and everyone had desk jobs instead of jobs where they are active, there was a need for something else to get them active. ANd most people don't have time to go play games with their friends...so they hop on a stationary bike.

And cardio is definitely not a waste...

 

[Lumberg]

Yeah but you also had far fewer bodybuilders with single-digit bodyfat percentages. Coincidence?

 

[SofaGeorge]

Anytime you saw someone running down the street, something was wrong. People didn't just run to run.

Very important observation. Humorists had a field day with "jogging" in the '70s. You NEVER saw people running for runnings sake before then... and suddenly you had people running everywhere.

What's the differenc between a jogger and a thief? One is carrying a TV set.

 

[KINGKONG6900]

so what your sayin is dont do cardio. are you tryin to say cardio dont do anything.

 

[SofaGeorge]

so what your sayin is dont do cardio. are you tryin to say cardio dont do anything.

It doesn't do much. That has been proven time and again. Crdio will help burn off a small amount of body fat... but diet does a whole lot more.

The point I was simply making looking back on the history of cardio was that it once practically didn't exist. It wsn't until it became big business that people had the marketing machine try to force it down their throat that cardio burned off bodyfat.

In the '60s if you ran... you ran to improve your speed and endurance. Nobody would have even commented that you were burning off body fat. They wouldn't have thought that you were.

Back then, the concept was that to lose body fat you had to eat less. That simple.

 

[Bulldog_10]

The point I was simply making looking back on the history of cardio was that it once practically didn't exist.

Neither did penicillin, surgery, pain killers, steroids, etc...Juse because it didn't exist at one point, doesn't mean it's worthless.

Cardio is good for you...it's that simple. It has not been proven that cardio does very little for you.

 

[Themachine01]

there is a statement somewhere on this thread about rock climbing and more elegant cardio routines, how often does one get a chance or time to get out and rock climb or get a basketball game up. Sure, I agree that when the oppurtunity is there, these other forms of cardio would be better, but they are not always available. It has been raining here where I live for the past 2 weeks, m trying to get prepared for pro pics this weekend and have been putting in an hour of cardio per day, im not about to put a rain jacket on and call some friends up to get a basketball game up, and no there arent any indoor courts around that dont charge a shitload of money to play.

 

[JG1]

Here we go again

 

[Bulldog_10]

Basically, cardio is just another way to be active, it's no better and no worse than anything else.

 

[Shallow Hal]

It seems some people feel cardio works for them and others feel it has no place. You just got to figure out what works for you. If you can stay lean and healthy without cardio, great for you.

In order for me to look good and feel good I have to eat right, lift weights, and do cardio.

 

[Themachine01]

Everyone that puts cardio down states that diet can do the same job, this is true, to some extent. If I have the same diet as someone else, yet I throw cardio in the mix, I gaurantee that I will loose fat a lot faster. I usually dont throw cardio into the mix while cutting until I hit a plateau, so yes you can loose fat without cardio, BUT, only for a certain period of time until you hit a wall and diet alone will not do the job.

 

[sk*]

What's the differenc between a jogger and a thief? One is carrying a TV set.

Hmm, this is kind of impossible in two ways isn't it? You guys didn't have joggers back then or TV's. Does this mean there were no thieves either?

Sorry couldn't resist, lol.

Back to the topic now, cardio burns calories right? Fat has calories right? Do the math.

Not saying it is the best way to lose fat, but it is a good addition to diet.

I generally run for fun, but it never takes more than 10-20mins. I also love to play basketball.

-sk

 

[DepressiveJuice]

who cares? its been discussed to death on this board. if you believe in cardio then do your damn cardio, if you dont then dont do it. how easier can it get than that?

 

[SofaGeorge]

Most people completely missed the point here. They got caught up in their own dogma of whether or not cardio is of any value.

That wasn't even the topic of my post.

The topic of my post was that cardio didn't EXIST as a workout concept except for but a short few years ago. Prior to that it wasn't even on the charts - but everybody today acts like it is one of the four basic food groups.

Cardio isn't a part of workout history. It's the new kid on the block.

 

[DeepZenPill]

Not to mention the fact that there WERE some ripped fucking bodybuilders who cut down without cardio. Instead they were doing 2 hours of nonstop lifting.

I stopped doing mindless cardio this year and I chuckle to myself everytime I walk by all the people on the cardio equipment on my way to the weights. I see the same fat people running month after month, with barely a change. If cardio wasn't so hyped as a great way to lose fat, then people might realize how much more important diet is.

I'm not saying cardio is useless. Last summer I would bike 16 miles a day, but that's MUCH different than being on a stationary bike. I could actually enjoy it. And I sure got lean as hell doing it combined with a diet. The best physical benefit I got from it wasn't losing bodyfat though, it was my increased endurance. I never got out of breath and my cardiovascular system had become so much more efficient.

If you're going to do cardio, at least try to find a way to do it that's fun.

 

[poantrex]

Cardio doesn't burn fat? Well, I guess the 8 inches I lost off my waist 5 years ago was a fluke then.

 

[IronKop77]

If cardio is so ineffective why do track stars, bicyclists, and swimmers have such low bodyfat %? I dont think these people focus all that much on their diet.

It may be new to the workout industry but come to think of it the industry isnt any more then 100 yrs old in itself!

I do agree that diet has a huge impact on our body composition but to say that just through dieting one can achieve the % of coleman, I dont buy it.

Also lets not forget the importance of cardio for circulatory health here. I THINK THIS HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON WHY CARDIO HAS BECOME SO MAINSTREAM ALSO.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Also lets not forget the importance of cardio for circulatory health here. I THINK THIS HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON WHY CARDIO HAS BECOME SO MAINSTREAM ALSO.

That's why it's called cardio dude...cardio=heart.

 

[zeeman66]

I understand what Sofa is saying, even though i'm only 36. I remember being a pre teen when all the jogging craze started just like pet rocks,pet tshirts and stuff like that......What i remember reading in muscle mags like the perry rader ironman was high rep breathing squats,cleans and olympic lifts if you wanted to improve your endurance and jumpstart your metabolism,now the first thing you read is bike 20min,staormaster 20min etc...i think thats the point he's trying to make moreso than which one works best

 

[slobberknocker]

I like the idea of taking up another activity instead of just mindlessly running, lol. My older friend, for example, was a powerlifter and also played semi pro football as his fun activity.

 

[chanmanfoo]

well said sofageorge. i couldnt agree more.
foo

 

[Nelson Montana]

Glad to see somebody else take the heat on this subject for a change.

It should also be noted that the only athletes that jogged 40 years ago were boxers. And guess what? Almost no boxers jog anymore. They run 3 mnute sprints -- which helps them do what they need to do.

Why are track stars and swimmers thin? Because fat runners and fat swimmers aren't successful. But it isn't the swimming and running that got the thin ones thin.

And as far as today's bodybuilders being more ripped today...BULLSHIT! Most of these guys are fat fucks except for the time around their contests. And it ain't because of cardio kids. It's drugs and diuretics. The bodybuilders from the 60's were cut all year round.

In about 10 more years, aerobics will be considered as outdated as a Jane Fonda work out video.

Okay -- everyone go back to yelling at Sofa now.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Glad to see somebody else take the heat on this subject for a change.

It should also be noted that the only athletes that jogged 40 years ago were boxers. And guess what? Almost no boxers jog anymore. They run 3 mnute sprints -- which helps them do what they need to do.

Why are track stars and swimmers thin? Because fat runners and fat swimmers aren't successful. But it isn't the swimming and running that got the thin ones thin.

And as far as today's bodybuilders being more ripped today...BULLSHIT! Most of these guys are fat fucks except for the time around their contests. And it ain't because of cardio kids. It's drugs and diuretics. The bodybuilders from the 60's were cut all year round.

In about 10 more years, aerobics will be considered as outdated as a Jane Fonda work out video.

Okay -- everyone go back to yelling at Sofa now.

But don't you agree that cardio is good for you? It's just that you don't consider riding a bike, or jogging cardio. Sprints are cardio, as well as riding the bike, as long as the intensity is high...and you keep your heart rate up in the 70+% range.

 

[SofaGeorge]

But don't you agree that cardio is good for you? It's just that you don't consider riding a bike, or jogging cardio. Sprints are cardio, as well as riding the bike, as long as the intensity is high...and you keep your heart rate up in the 70+% range.

According to almost all of the scientific evidence I've seen - NO.

I sprint for leg development and endurance. Periodically I go through phases where I run... to increase endurance...

... but I'm not finding any evidience that hitting the treadmill or exercise bike for a couple hours a week IMPROVES your health.

It may offer some negligible benefit, or it may have a slightly negative effect... but it definitely doesn't turn you into a health god.

Most distance runners look like death on a stick. I used to live in the mountains and all the distance runner chicks would stop by my place for water. They were sweet chicks but they were skankier than crack whores to look at. I've never seen so many unattractive bags of bones... and before you jump on "bags of bones" it wasn't that running got their bodyfat down to nothing - it ate the crap out of their MUSCLE. They had no meat left. They looked like they escaped from Aushwitz.

The debate will rage on as to whether or not their are benefits to cardio... but so far the evidence is NOT there to support it as being "good" for you.

The point of my post was simply that cardio is a relatively new concept fabricated to sell products. If it was the weightloss miracle that RUNNER magazine or Jane Fonda would have you believe - why weren't people running to lose body fat in the '40s or '50s? People have known how to run since they had to get away from saber tooth tigers? Why did running supposedly only start buring off bodyfat when running shorts and jogging shoes hit K-mart?

 

[powerforward]

sofageorge, aren't you like 34? how do you remember what the 70's was like?

 

[SofaGeorge]

sofageorge, aren't you like 34? how do you remember what the 70's was like?

Maybe because I haven't been 34 for a long time.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Sofa, I think we may be talking about 2 different things, which happens alot lately. So you mean to tell me that you don't think working your heart (cardio = heart work) improves your health?

I know it can be detrimental to your health if overdone, as can ANY type of exercise. But if done in moderation, it DEFINITELY improves health...and the adaptations that your body makes to cardio will increase FFA utilization.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Sofa, I think we may be talking about 2 different things, which happens alot lately. So you mean to tell me that you don't think working your heart (cardio = heart work) improves your health?

I know it can be detrimental to your health if overdone, as can ANY type of exercise. But if done in moderation, it DEFINITELY improves health...and the adaptations that your body makes to cardio will increase FFA utilization.

I sprint as part of my program... so we aren't on different planets.

I'm more against the concept of "cardio" as a weightloss miracle. People are brainwashed these days to think they are hoping on the treadmill and burning off the bodyfat. They don't stop and look at the history of exercise. In the '30s if you went out and planted fence posts all day, cut hay, and then milked the cows ... you would have been thought to have spent a day BUILDING your body through activity. In the '60s if you went running... people would consider you BUILDING your body and your health... getting bigger and stronger. It was only in the '70s when the running/aerobics fad started turning into a multi billion dollar industry selling classes, tapes, shoes, clothes, magazines, etc... that cardio became linked to losing body fat... or getting smaller.

I worked out at Gold's Venice for almost a decade... and only saw one or maybe two pros EVER on a treadmill... and then only once or twice. Back in the days of Arnold... I doubt you would have ever even found one.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I sprint as part of my program... so we aren't on different planets.

I'm more against the concept of "cardio" as a weightloss miracle. People are brainwashed these days to think they are hoping on the treadmill and burning off the bodyfat. They don't stop and look at the history of exercise. In the '30s if you went out and planted fence posts all day, cut hay, and then milked the cows ... you would have been thought to have spent a day BUILDING your body through activity. In the '60s if you went running... people would consider you BUILDING your body and your health... getting bigger and stronger. It was only in the '70s when the running/aerobics fad started turning into a multi billion dollar industry selling classes, tapes, shoes, clothes, magazines, etc... that cardio became linked to losing body fat... or getting smaller.

I worked out at Gold's Venice for almost a decade... and only saw one or maybe two pros EVER on a treadmill... and then only once or twice. Back in the days of Arnold... I doubt you would have ever even found one.

Ok, so you're saying it's not a fat loss miracle, but it IS healthy. I'll agree to that.

But aerobic work, if done right...can promote fat loss.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Ok, so you're saying it's not a fat loss miracle, but it IS healthy. I'll agree to that.

But aerobic work, if done right...can promote fat loss.

I didn't say it was healthy. You said that. I'm an agnostic.

RE aerobic work promoting fat lost... that is like saying you can dig to China with a spoon. A spoon won't get you very far but it can dig.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I didn't say it was healthy. You said that. I'm an agnostic.

RE aerobic work promoting fat lost... that is like saying you can dig to China with a spoon. A spoon won't get you very far but it can dig.

So you don't think it's healthy? Not even for the heart?

And the spoon analogy is way off...if you do cardio at a specific percentage of your VO2max, you can assure yourself that you are burning mostly fat. Not only that, when you do endurance work, your body increases its fat stores near mitochondria = more easily oxidized fat.

It also increases the ability of the coronary arteries to dilate...increases blood volume without increasing RBC count = less viscous blood...increased insulin sensitivity...the list goes on and on.

To say that working your heart is not healthy is one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

if i would have read this thread and still been wrestling in high school i would have tried my darndest to get some sort of strong diuretic and I would never have had to run for an hour before a meet to sweat off .7 lb. why dont more people just try that.


im going to cook some popcorn and tuna and sit back and watch this thread

 

[Bulldog_10]

if i would have read this thread and still been wrestling in high school i would have tried my darndest to get some sort of strong diuretic and I would never have had to run for an hour before a meet to sweat off .7 lb. why dont more people just try that.


im going to cook some popcorn and tuna and sit back and watch this thread

What does that even mean?

 

[RADAR]

Sofa thanks for the walk down memory lane.....i remember those machines that the fat ladies got on that would shake their fannies to death,why i even used em a few times to blend my protein shake...yes back in those days a gym was a true gym no fancy machines just concrete wall and lots of iron,heck we even watched a black & white tv with only one channel that went off the air at 12 midnight and this was around 1958.hee hee!
So you kids now a days pretty much have it made!


RADAR

 

[Ulter]

I lived in the same time. But I would never want to go back to it. There are a lot of things that have changed since the days before people started doing cardio. Like Mortality Tables for instance.

I have already posted this before but..
The American College of Sports Medicine has a position stand published on this. It states cardio AND resistance training are the keys to longevity. I am going to have to go with the sports docs on this one. They have no reason to take that position other than what they believe is the truth. They are not a health club. They are not going to earn more if people DO live longer. In other words, the only motive of these doctors is to educate the public about what they need to do to stay healthier.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

What does that even mean?

it means that i really enjoy sitting back and watching the "no cardio" threads

 

[SofaGeorge]

I lived in the same time. But I would never want to go back to it. There are a lot of things that have changed since the days before people started doing cardio. Like Mortality Tables for instance.

I have already posted this before but..
The American College of Sports Medicine has a position stand published on this. It states cardio AND resistance training are the keys to longevity. I am going to have to go with the sports docs on this one. They have no reason to take that position other than what they believe is the truth. They are not a health club. They are not going to earn more if people DO live longer. In other words, the only motive of these doctors is to educate the public about what they need to do to stay healthier.

When did the American College of Sports Medicine become experts on longevity? I don't even see them listed as speakers at A4M during the last how many years.

 

[Bulldog_10]

When did the American College of Sports Medicine become experts on longevity? I don't even see them listed as speakers at A4M during the last how many years.

Come on...now you're doubting the ACSM?!?!

 

[40butpumpin]

The other day I was driving home from the gym (this is a true story) and the traffic was slow so we were sort of creeping along on a road that's a typical main city street, 40 mph type road, but the traffic is typically pretty heavy. I look to my right and there's this little old guy jogging, I honestly cannot remember what he had on his head but there was something. But what struck me was the guy looked like he was about to keel over and die. It looked like he was in God-awful pain, his face showing every bit of the discomfort he was experiencing. His feet looked like they weighed 100lbs each and they weren't getting but an inch off the ground, seemingly dragging. He looked like he was in horrible condition and definitely like he should not have be jogging. To top it off the quality of air on the side of that street had to be pretty bad considering the heavy traffic. There is no way that dude was benefiting from that jogging in my opinion. In fact it looked like it was seriously killing him.

Now honestly how many of you have seen something just like that?

Also, do you ever see people jogging on the hottest days of the year at the hottest time of that day? Man I see that every summer and I just shake my head.

I think for some people with special, specific goals, cardio is necessary, however, I aslo think for the general population it's more harmful than beneficial.

Finally, at every gym I've ever been at almost invariably the people doing weight training are leaner, more muscular, more fit looking and definitely looking like they're having a better time whereas the ones on the cardio machines are way overweight, and looking like they're dreading every second of what they're doing.

I don't believe that's any kind of coincidence.

Now I'm not totally anti-cardio, I do a modified form of it myself with the interval training that I do, however, I also believe it's not what most people think it is and far as what benefits and results it will yield.

 

[Bulldog_10]

The other day I was driving home from the gym (this is a true story) and the traffic was slow so we were sort of creeping along on a road that's a typical main city street, 40 mph type road, but the traffic is typically pretty heavy. I look to my right and there's this little old guy jogging, I honestly cannot remember what he had on his head but there was something. But what struck me was the guy looked like he was about to keel over and die. It looked like he was in God-awful pain, his face showing every bit of the discomfort he was experiencing. His feet looked like they weighed 100lbs each and they weren't getting but an inch off the ground, seemingly dragging. He looked like he was in horrible condition and definitely like he should not have be jogging. To top it off the quality of air on the side of that street had to be pretty bad considering the heavy traffic. There is no way that dude was benefiting from that jogging in my opinion. In fact it looked like it was seriously killing him.

Now honestly how many of you have seen something just like that?

Also, do you ever see people jogging on the hottest days of the year at the hottest time of that day? Man I see that every summer and I just shake my head.

I think for some people with special, specific goals, cardio is necessary, however, I aslo think for the general population it's more harmful than beneficial.

Finally, at every gym I've ever been at almost invariably the people doing weight training are leaner, more muscular, more fit looking and definitely looking like they're having a better time whereas the ones on the cardio machines are way overweight, and looking like they're dreading every second of what they're doing.

I don't believe that's any kind of coincidence.

Now I'm not totally anti-cardio, I do a modified form of it myself with the interval training that I do, however, I also believe it's not what most people think it is and far as what benefits and results it will yield.

But what you fail to understand is that just because most people do it wrong, doesn't mean it isn't beneficial. If you just work at 30% intensity for 2 hours, of course it ain't gonna do shit. But if you work hard, it will pay off...just like anything else.

 

[40butpumpin]

...And the spoon analogy is way off...if you do cardio at a specific percentage of your VO2max, you can assure yourself that you are burning mostly fat. Not only that, when you do endurance work, your body increases its fat stores near mitochondria = more easily oxidized fat.

It also increases the ability of the coronary arteries to dilate...increases blood volume without increasing RBC count = less viscous blood...increased insulin sensitivity...the list goes on and on...

It definitely will illicit certain physiological changes but are they always what one is looking for? To get to the fat burning stage cortisol had to have been released to signal the usage of fat or protein. As a result of this muscle fiber protein degradation takes place and testosterone receptor downgrade also takes place. What also happens with heavy endurance training is capillary to cell distance decreases for more efficient oxygen supply and for that to happen muscle x-sectional area must decrease.

This is a contentious issue and I'm certainly not going to argue with someone that tells me that cardio works for them. That's great and I say more power to you brother. But every time this topic comes up we seem to divide up and have polar opposite opinions which I find really fascinating. I do believe there's better ways of maintaining good health and even good heart health than jogging though. Jogging on a street is exercise from hell imo. At least that's how I see it anyway.

 

[40butpumpin]

But what you fail to understand is that just because most people do it wrong, doesn't mean it isn't beneficial. If you just work at 30% intensity for 2 hours, of course it ain't gonna do shit. But if you work hard, it will pay off...just like anything else.

Well, at least I tried to say that it will work for some with certain goals, but for the general populace -- the ones who do it wrong -- it's more harmful than beneficial.

Bro I'm not saying it's bad at all, I just think it's not for everyone and definitely not for as many people that are doing it. That's all I'm saying.

 

[40butpumpin]

...2) The american diet these days is shot to hell. Back then we didn't have McDonalds, Taco Bell, In-N-Out burger, 9 billion bars, skittles, Krispy Kreme, 24-hour Jack in the box, etc. Back then people still led a Beaver Cleaver, wife cooks delicious healthy meal type society...

-= nav =-

Oh yeah, fast foods are killing us. Personally I'd rather eat a spoon of natural peanut butter and a glass of milk than anything out of these estabishments. Despite where they're coming from, however, imo excessive carbohydrates is THE NUMBER ONE reason for so much obesity and the diseases that are associated with obesity.

 

[Lumberg]

What also happens with heavy endurance training is capillary to cell distance decreases for more efficient oxygen supply and for that to happen muscle x-sectional area must decrease.

I thought you just grew more blood vessels to feed the muscle fibers???????

 

[Ulter]

SG, How about the American Heart Association, American Medical Association, The President's counsel on Physical Fitness, The US Surgeon General?
The number of medical goups and associations that disagree with no cardio are pretty lengthy. To ignore them simply because you want to rationalize why you don't need to do something you don't like to do doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Bulldog_10]

It definitely will illicit certain physiological changes but are they always what one is looking for? To get to the fat burning stage cortisol had to have been released to signal the usage of fat or protein. As a result of this muscle fiber protein degradation takes place and testosterone receptor downgrade also takes place. What also happens with heavy endurance training is capillary to cell distance decreases for more efficient oxygen supply and for that to happen muscle x-sectional area must decrease.

This is a contentious issue and I'm certainly not going to argue with someone that tells me that cardio works for them. That's great and I say more power to you brother. But every time this topic comes up we seem to divide up and have polar opposite opinions which I find really fascinating. I do believe there's better ways of maintaining good health and even good heart health than jogging though. Jogging on a street is exercise from hell imo. At least that's how I see it anyway.

Yes, cardio will probably be catabolic in some way...but not because the x-sectional area must decrease to get more blood there...the capillary density increases, the muscle doesn't shrink.

See, you're talking about getting big, and I'm talking about being healthy. Of course if your goal is get as big as possible, cardio can be detrimental...but if your goal is to be healthy, especially heart healthy, cardio is a good idea no matter which was you slice it.

 

[SofaGeorge]

SG, How about the American Heart Association, American Medical Association, The President's counsel on Physical Fitness, The US Surgeon General?
The number of medical goups and associations that disagree with no cardio are pretty lengthy. To ignore them simply because you want to rationalize why you don't need to do something you don't like to do doesn't make sense to me.

You are pointing to groups of people... not medical studies. Are you saying that scientific truths are derived from comittee decision?

What studies are these comittees basing their decision on? The ones I am reading aren't supporting cardio as having health benefits... especially in relation to body fat loss.

But like I said - I'm an agnostic on this issue. I run sprints. I do 2 mile runs and hike home. I ride my bike. I box and kick box. So if you can show that this "cardio" is actually good for me and not just endurance, speed and agility exercise... I'm thrilled.

 

[40butpumpin]

Yes, cardio will probably be catabolic in some way...but not because the x-sectional area must decrease to get more blood there...the capillary density increases, the muscle doesn't shrink.

See, you're talking about getting big, and I'm talking about being healthy. Of course if your goal is get as big as possible, cardio can be detrimental...but if your goal is to be healthy, especially heart healthy, cardio is a good idea no matter which was you slice it.

I agree man, cardio can be a healthy form of exercise and especially healthy for heart, lungs as well as numerous other things. But you have to admit it looks like people are damn near killing themselves with it. At least that's the way it appears to me. What do you think about the type of exercise being the most beneficial to a particular individual being dependant on their body type. Let's face it, power lifters and marathoners seem to be born for their respective sports. Just a thought.

 

[Ulter]

Not just people, but doctors who have the medical records and statistics of all the patients they have observed over many years. When they take the time to come together and write a position stand or consensus statement based on all they've learned it holds much more weight than some study done at a University in India.
It's worth it bro, stay with it.

 

[Lift Chief]

Not just people, but doctors who have the medical records and statistics of all the patients they have observed over many years. When they take the time to come together and write a position stand or consensus statement based on all they've learned it holds much more weight than some study done at a University in India.
It's worth it bro, stay with it.

Gotta agree there. Usually pretty safe to believe what a group of doctors have come together and agreed upon. I've seen reports from various groups stating that regularly elevating your heart rate for 30 minutes everyday(or something like that) will prolong and impove the quality of ones life.

Now the heart doesn't care whether the exercise is from jogging in the smog or from playing basketball... obviously- just as long as you do something that will accomplish this goal you will be healthier.

 

[maverick2112]

I dont care about cardio being good for you or not. The big ? to me is...........How efficient is the time you are spending on cardio compared to the same time doing something that could be more beneficial.....

Example..... say you spend 30 minutes 3 days a week on the treadmill.(a moderate amount).......over the course of a year thats 90 minutes x 52 weeks of the year....thats 4680 minutes per yr on cardio....which = 78 hrs a yr on cardio. Now for me I am much better off spending those extra 78 hrs lifting weights.........I lose more BF and gain more muscle using this 78 hrs in a much more efficient way. I have spent years watching the same guys do cardio day after day and they do lose weight but to me they are still flabby.... just smaller. Then I see the guy who lifts 4 days a week with heavy weights and he is muscular and trim.

 

[Spartacus]

I was out by the pool the other day and an old guy(~70) came out in his running shoes and shorts...he was shirtless...from the waist down the guy had good leg(obviously)developement and was lean..form the waist up is chest was sagging and his arms were veritable sticks...he had somewhat of a paunch..form the looks of it this guy had been running/jogging for many years..true he didn't have a gut(just that soft ring of flab..and flab is what it looked like)and his legs were in good shape,and I'm sure his cardiovascular system was in good form...but overall the physique was weak..in my mind this guy has done so much cardio that he has catabolized most of his upper body musculature and therefore he really doesn't have the lean mass to stay truly thin and look good..imo he would have been better off over the years doing weight training and maintaining a whole bodies worth of musculature..do just enough cardio to keep the vascular system healthy..having said this I think that 40 minutes spent intensely weight traing is far more beneficial than 40 minutes doing cardio

 

[pitbullstl]

I was out by the pool the other day and an old guy(~70) came out in his running shoes and shorts...he was shirtless...from the waist down the guy had good leg(obviously)developement and was lean..form the waist up is chest was sagging and his arms were veritable sticks...he had somewhat of a paunch..form the looks of it this guy had been running/jogging for many years..true he didn't have a gut(just that soft ring of flab..and flab is what it looked like)and his legs were in good shape,and I'm sure his cardiovascular system was in good form...but overall the physique was weak..in my mind this guy has done so much cardio that he has catabolized most of his upper body musculature and therefore he really doesn't have the lean mass to stay truly thin and look good..imo he would have been better off over the years doing weight training and maintaining a whole bodies worth of musculature..do just enough cardio to keep the vascular system healthy..having said this I think that 40 minutes spent intensely weight traing is far more beneficial than 40 minutes doing cardio

Dude he's 70.....ever seen a 70 year old bodybuilder......it's fucking gross.....this thread is fucking stupid.....if there is anyone on this board that thinks cardio is useless you are in fact an idiot.........the heart is the most important muscle in the body...period....so unless you are one of the little queer fucks running around the gym "circuit training" (which incindentally would be cardio) then I suggest you do at least 1-2 hours of cardio a week.......but I guess cardiologist, and physicians don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.....

 

[poantrex]

I'm sorry, anyone who states that high intensity cardio doesn't help one burn fat is an absolute moron.

 

[Spartacus]

anybody have some pics of over 60 bodybuilders...and they need to be bodybuilders that have continued to lift/train...I don't think you can find me a pic of an over 60 BB who has continued to train thats "fucking gross"...on another note much of longevity and how well you age is genetics..I'm a mortician and last month I embalmed an 82 yr old ~400lb women..I'll bet she hadn't done any cardio in 50 years..amazing that she was 82..on the death certificate the primary cuase of death was "morbidly obese"...also the point I was making about the old runner is that given that he had the drive and energy to keep exercising in to his 60/70s..I'll maintain that he would have been healthier and look better had he primarily focused on resistance training..and for the record I feel that cardio is beneficial..just that there are diminishing returns..do a 20-30 minute bout,but do the resistance traing as your exercise focus

 

[Dooley]

Apparantly you all forgot about the underlying cause of fatloss.. it's a caloric deficit. Granted some muscular size can decrease due to this deficit, but more calories expended + fewer calories consumed = loss of bodyfat. Cardio machines aren't ALWAYS necessary to lose weight. This is where the mentioning on diet is important.. heavy weight training burns lots of calories. So does regular aerobic activity. Moving and making your muscles active = calories burned. Also.. the more muscle mass and active tissue carried = more calories burned.

I guess I'm a middle of the road guy on the topic.. I don't do cardio, but I'm on my feet all day long. I don't seem to get winded very easily, and all I do is lift heavy 5 days a week. Do your aerobic activity if you want.. it has beneficial lipid profile, circulatory, and blood pressure properties.

Also.. SG.. just an observation.. back in the 50's and 60's.. scientists didn't have any clue about how the human body worked. They didn't understand the cellular functions of the body, or much of anything else about diet for that matter. Weight loss wasn't important back then.. so as a result of this stairmaster and treadmill phase, scientists have been able to drastically increase their knowledge of how the human body functions down to the tiniest organism in the body. There are far fewer things that havn't been researched and further understood since the start of the exercise trend.

 

[Ulter]

Sidebar:

"scientists didn't have any clue about how the human body worked. They didn't understand the cellular functions of the body, or much of anything else about diet for that matter"

It's not just 50's and 60's it's 2003. After spending nearly a billion dollars over 30 years studying muscle they still don't understand everything about how they work. If they did there would be no Muscular Dystrophy.

 

[MUSTANG_18]

With my expirience, cardio is a MUST if your major goal is fat loss. For you guys who don't belive cardio is good for anything, try telling that to my father who had a quad bipass at 48! Cardio is a main reason he is alive today and that is not coming from me, not coming from him, it's coming from the people who diagnosed his condition and preformed the operation.

M18

 

[SofaGeorge]

How much cardio did George Burns and Bob Hope do to reach 100?

 

[MUSTANG_18]

How much cardio did George Burns and Bob Hope do to reach 100?

How can you ask that ? You don't know what they did and didn't do in there personal lives. Chances are they didn't do much cardio, but they may have. Just because of a couple people were lucky enough to make it to that age does not mean a thing. Your baing your opinion on 2 people with that statement. Cardio does help keep the heart healthy, directly or indirectly. Either way, I think I'll keep doing my cardio. To each his own

M18

 

[poantrex]

Not only did I lose a ton of fat and inches off my waist with high intensity cardio (with little to no change in diet), it improved my insulin sensitivity and blood pressure immensely.

If you're too lazy for cardio, don't do it...but to brush it off as not being useful is idiocy.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Even I'm getting sick of this and a good portion of my book explains how aerobics suck.

This is what I see...

There are people that believe aerobics are good for the heart and there's nothing that's going to change their mind. That's what they've heard and that's what they want to believe. End of story.

Ulter; I know you know your shit, but would you listen to doctor on cycle advice? I bet not. So what makes you think they know what they're talking about when it comes to exercise? They study drugs more than they study exercise.

All he studies about the benifits of aerobics are in comparison to no exercise at all.

Everyone who claims to have lost fat with aerobics did so beause prior to doing aerobics they were doing nothing.

But again, once some peoples minds are made up, all the logic in the world won't change it. That's okay. They're entitled to do things a less effective way if they like.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Even I'm getting sick of this and a good portion of my book explains how aerobics suck.

This is what I see...

There are people that believe aerobics are good for the heart and there's nothing that's going to change their mind. That's what they've heard and that's what they want to believe. End of story.

Ulter; I know you know your shit, but would you listen to doctor on cycle advice? I bet not. So what makes you think they know what they're talking about when it comes to exercise? They study drugs more than they study exercise.

All he studies about the benifits of aerobics are in comparison to no exercise at all.

Everyone who claims to have lost fat with aerobics did so beause prior to doing aerobics they were doing nothing.

But again, once some peoples minds are made up, all the logic in the world won't change it. That's okay. They're entitled to do things a less effective way if they like.

Hey! This dork is diss'ing cardio. Quick - everybody attack him! Kick his ass! Send him back to the stone age!!!!!!














































j/k

Cardio sucks dog balls.

 

[Ulter]

Ulter; I know you know your shit, but would you listen to doctor on cycle advice? I bet not. So what makes you think they know what they're talking about when it comes to exercise? They study drugs more than they study exercise.

Yes I would because my doctor is Dr Ramon Scruggs. But I understand where you're going.
We won't change each others minds on this so let's just call it a draw.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Yes I would because my doctor is Dr Ramon Scruggs. But I understand where you're going.
We won't change each others minds on this so let's just call it a draw.

Holy shit... your doctor is Ray Scruggs? Ulter... I've got many a story to tell you over beers.

I thought you were in Florida? Is Ray in Florida now?

 

[manny78]

I did cardio for a while, I thought this was the magic pill, but it ain't. Instead I use my time in a smarter way: I practice sports instead. Instead of running like a retard on some machine, doing the same idiotic move, I prefer to play soccer, have fun.

 

[XBiker]

But like I said - I'm an agnostic on this issue. I run sprints. I do 2 mile runs and hike home. I ride my bike. I box and kick box. So if you can show that this "cardio" is actually good for me and not just endurance, speed and agility exercise... I'm thrilled.

All of which are cardiovascular/aerobic activities.

Kettle, meet the pot...

 

[pitbullstl]

Even I'm getting sick of this and a good portion of my book explains how aerobics suck.

This is what I see...

There are people that believe aerobics are good for the heart and there's nothing that's going to change their mind. That's what they've heard and that's what they want to believe. End of story.

Ulter; I know you know your shit, but would you listen to doctor on cycle advice? I bet not. So what makes you think they know what they're talking about when it comes to exercise? They study drugs more than they study exercise.

All he studies about the benifits of aerobics are in comparison to no exercise at all.

Everyone who claims to have lost fat with aerobics did so beause prior to doing aerobics they were doing nothing.

But again, once some peoples minds are made up, all the logic in the world won't change it. That's okay. They're entitled to do things a less effective way if they like.

Ya know, this is the first time I have replied to a "Nelsonism" but here goes, you're a moron, write all the books you want, peddle all the useless info you can on internet discussion boards, and try to sway the opinions of weakminded young people.

1. There 3 cardiologist in my family Grandfather, Father, and older brother. (they have forgotten more about the overall health of the heart, and pulmonary functions then you will ever know)

2. you're a moron.

3. Yes I have consulted my father (doctor) for cycle advice, and consequently have had stellar results from doing so.

4. What's your area of expertise exactly (by your posts one would assume everything)

5. You're a moron....damn already used that one.

6. According to Nelson...the American Lung Association, Doctors the world over, and Exercise Physiologist are all wrong, and he is right

 

[SofaGeorge]

Ya know, this is the first time I have replied to a "Nelsonism" but here goes, you're a moron, write all the books you want, peddle all the useless info you can on internet discussion boards, and try to sway the opinions of weakminded young people.

1. There 3 cardiologist in my family Grandfather, Father, and older brother. (they have forgotten more about the overall health of the heart, and pulmonary functions then you will ever know)

2. you're a moron.

3. Yes I have consulted my father (doctor) for cycle advice, and consequently have had stellar results from doing so.

4. What's your area of expertise exactly (by your posts one would assume everything)

5. You're a moron....damn already used that one.

6. According to Nelson...the American Lung Association, Doctors the world over, and Exercise Physiologist are all wrong, and he is right

Well... this is definitely infantile flaming at this point. Mods... please lock this thread. Its life is done.

 

[pitbullstl]

Well... this is definitely infantile flaming at this point. Mods... please lock this thread. Its life is done.

Why is it infantile, to disagree with the likes of you? Or Nelson? Which one?

 

[DaddyX]

i would rather eat poop then do cardio........to me i find it pointless

 

[SofaGeorge]

Why is it infantile, to disagree with the likes of you? Or Nelson? Which one?

Reread your post. If your manner of expressing yourself doesn't strike you as childish you do not have a firm grasp of the English language.

Your disagreeing with Nelson or me is not childish. Your manner of expressing yourself is... often.

 

[pitbullstl]

i would rather eat poop then do cardio........to me i find it pointless

Poop....he he he ....oh shit..that was childish....damn

 

[pitbullstl]

Reread your post. If your manner of expressing yourself doesn't strike you as childish you do not have a firm grasp of the English language.

Your disagreeing with Nelson or me is not childish. Your manner of expressing yourself is... often.

I'm sorry childish is the fastest way to get a point across....without typing a bunch of regurgitated info, and claiming it as your own....not directed at you so much, more at Nelson......I just want to see credentials......is that to much to ask? I think not.....at any rate, my points were valid.....childish in the way they were carried out.......ummmmm.... I dunno........well alright maybe a little........

 

[Nelson Montana]

It's obvious that the sole purpose for this guys post is to boast that he has relatives who are doctors. I'm sure everyone here is impressed beyond words.

 

[pitbullstl]

Yep you got me.....still waiting on those credentials though......oh exhalted resource of training information.......I was....how did you put it.....boasting that my relatives are doctors......because I care so much about my internet image......in reality I was just poking holes in your as always flawed information......dude you're not Dan Duchaine.......and you're not a doctor....or are you.....your information in 90% of your posts seems to be from personal experience......but why not try addressing the issues....ya know, the one that started the thread........you know that cardio is a giant waste of time......and has no positive effect on the body whatsoever...........

 

[DepressiveJuice]

whether you agree or not, cardio still sucks. lets just leave it at that

 

[SofaGeorge]

whether you agree or not, cardio still sucks. lets just leave it at that

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yep you got me.....still waiting on those credentials though......oh exhalted resource of training information.......I was....how did you put it.....boasting that my relatives are doctors......because I care so much about my internet image......in reality I was just poking holes in your as always flawed information......dude you're not Dan Duchaine.......and you're not a doctor....or are you.....your information in 90% of your posts seems to be from personal experience......but why not try addressing the issues....ya know, the one that started the thread........you know that cardio is a giant waste of time......and has no positive effect on the body whatsoever...........

The whole point of these boards is to exchange and challange ideas. If you have a point of contention -- take your best shot. But from what I see, you got nothing. It's just blatant flaming. No exchange. No challange. No logical rebuttal. Just insipid insults, which is to be expected from someone with nothing to offer.

Credentials? Like what? Having a relative who's a doctor?

I never claimed to be Dan Duchaine. By the way, what were his credentials?

 

[SofaGeorge]

I never claimed to be Dan Duchaine. By the way, what were his credentials?

I knew Dan from the time Pits was wearing short pants. He would have spewed his coffee if somebody mentioned "credentials" and his name in the same sentence.

Dan was a brilliant... but totally self educated man.

 

[Lumberg]

Hey guys put yourself in pit's shoes for a second. He obviously comes from a proud tradition of medicine. He was brought up to hold doctors in very high regard. Then some people come on here and trash the medical profession and say they know nothing about exercise.

You gotta understand that he's going to come on here and defend doctors.

I am not condoning his stance or his tone. Just trying to put myself in his shoes. It's like if someone insulted whatever profession you do, you have to admit it woudl get your hackles up.

Just like anything else there are doctors that are very well informed and stay on the cutting edge of knowledge, and there are doctors who just kind of follow the herd.

And just for the record I haev a cousin who is a doctor and I am very proud of him. I also consider myself more knowledgeable than most people even on this board about a host of subjects because I have just picked up the phone and called him or pored over medical textbooks with him while over at this house and researching certain subjects (enteral glutamine absorption and TVA action for examples). He is very curious and willing to pursue avenues of learning when I pose questions to him.

 

[bicepts101]

Hey guys put yourself in pit's shoes for a second. He obviously comes from a proud tradition of medicine. He was brought up to hold doctors in very high regard. Then some people come on here and trash the medical profession and say they know nothing about exercise.

You gotta understand that he's going to come on here and defend doctors.

I am not condoning his stance or his tone. Just trying to put myself in his shoes. It's like if someone insulted whatever profession you do, you have to admit it woudl get your hackles up.

Just like anything else there are doctors that are very well informed and stay on the cutting edge of knowledge, and there are doctors who just kind of follow the herd

Good point! I agree!
If someone were to trash my profession i would defend it at all costs.
Good point!

 

[Dooley]

Sidebar:

"scientists didn't have any clue about how the human body worked. They didn't understand the cellular functions of the body, or much of anything else about diet for that matter"

It's not just 50's and 60's it's 2003. After spending nearly a billion dollars over 30 years studying muscle they still don't understand everything about how they work. If they did there would be no Muscular Dystrophy.

Since we're on a sidebar.. just wanted to defend myself real quick. I realize we don't know anywhere near all there is to know about the human body or muscles for that matter. You're right.. we wouldn't have aids, MD, hell we might even be able to find some of the keys to slowing the aging process. But considering the knowledge of the 50's and 60's, we have made leaps and bounds since then.

That's all. I agree.. this thread has pretty much beaten to death. Everyone expressed their views, and there was no conclusion to be made. Nobody has the answer or the key. We're all just observers and students with opinions about a topic that is far beyond most of the populations comprehension. At least we can still have a nice debate about what we think is right!

 

[jboldman]

I can not believe that i did not get involved in this thread. About once every other week someone posts a thread like this just to troll. It is so crystal clear that cardio has overwhelming support both in experimental studies and also in anecdotal evidence that it is pointless to argue its case with someone who chooses not to do it or believe what all the experts have to say. For those who choose not to do cardio, all the more power to them. If you can substitute resistance training for it, i say good deal, resistance training at some point is just a form of cardio so why split hairs. As long as you do it in some form or another you will reap its benefits.

jb

 

[Lumberg]

resistance training at some point is just a form of cardio so why split hairs.

Thank you my friend. It's like saying "I hate drinking alcohol so I just drink beer."

 

[Nelson Montana]

Thank you my friend. It's like saying "I hate drinking alcohol so I just drink beer."

No it isn't.

The problem that so many people don't get is that the discussion here is not about the benefits of heart health through exercise. It's about how those benifits can be obtained. And that's possible with weight training, sports or simply an active lifestyle. Traditional "aerobic exercise" is less effective, potentially harmful and ultimately unneccesary. It that's too difficult to comprehend, there really is no need to discuss this further.

 

[Lumberg]

Oh please.......and training with weights isn't potentially harmful?

I'll grant you that cardio for cardio's sake is both less effective and unnecessary if you do other aerobic activities, but potentially harmful? Implying that it's more potentially harmful than lifting weights?

 

[Spartacus]

with my schedule..if I have only about 120 minutes to exercise in a week I'll do 120 minutes of resistance training(3X40)..if my schedule permits and I have more time then I'll do some cardio..maybe 20-30 minutes of running..I like to run outside to get some sun(the pineal gland needs the sunlight)..and often I'll run midday in ~98 degree heat here in alabama to sweat out toxins and excess water(I'll lose about 4 pints/4lbs in 4 miles)..so having said this I guess I prefer a 3-1 split on my time..that is 120 minutes of weight traing coupled with 40 minutes of cardio..but I get my 120 minutes of weight training in first..if the week passes and I haven't done any cardio,then I'll start the next cycle/week anew with the 120 minutes of weight training..I'm an economist and I feel that I get a better return on the investment of my time doing weight training..if I didn't have to work and my gym was open 7 days..I'd do 2 days of weight traing followed by a day of 30 minutes of cardio,then repeat

 

[Ulter]

Holy shit... your doctor is Ray Scruggs? Ulter... I've got many a story to tell you over beers.

I thought you were in Florida? Is Ray in Florida now?

No he's still in Costa Mesa. I converse with him by "phone consultation". He is my wife's endo as well. Great guy he just needs a better business manager.

 

[Bulldog_10]

No it isn't.

The problem that so many people don't get is that the discussion here is not about the benefits of heart health through exercise. It's about how those benifits can be obtained. And that's possible with weight training, sports or simply an active lifestyle. Traditional "aerobic exercise" is less effective, potentially harmful and ultimately unneccesary. It that's too difficult to comprehend, there really is no need to discuss this further.

That is absurd. You're saying that you can obtain BETTER results from just playing sports and being active, than you could following a controlled, precise plan for cardiovascular health?

What if your sport is golf? Basketball? baseball? hockey? They're all going to have different effects on your heart. Whereas if you set up a good cardio program, where you know what your heart rate is, and what percent of your max HR, or VO@max you're working at...then you're going to get the exact benefits that you want.

That's like saying: "You can grow just by getting a job where you lift heavy things, such as a mover, or a construction laborer. But weight training is less effective, potentially harmful, and ultimately unnecessary."

Tell me, how is that any different from just playing sports to get the max benefit for your heart?

Sure, being active will improve the health of your heart...but not as well as a specific, well-designed cardio program.

 

[Ulter]

You get the same level through sports??? As far as I know even the athletes of all sports do cardio.
Can you tell me at what level of sports do the athletes NOT do cardio? Are you talking about T-ball for 5 year olds?

I will admit "in season" most professional hockey player don't. So we'll excuse those in the National Hockey League.

 

[jboldman]

Ulter, we already know that this discussion has gone beyond the rational, good luck trying to get an articulate, well thought out, and supported answer. All you will get is ,"if you do not get it your just plain too stupid to try to convince."

jb

You get the same level through sports??? As far as I know even the athletes of all sports do cardio.
Can you tell me at what level of sports do the athletes NOT do cardio? Are you talking about T-ball for 5 year olds?

I will admit "in season" most professional hockey player don't. So we'll excuse those in the National Hockey League.

 

[SofaGeorge]

This debate reminds of back in the '70s when I told people that cocaine wasn't good for you... and that it WAS addictive.

I had everybody in the natural foods juice bar tell me I was the biggest idiot on the planet. Cocaine was viewed as a health food back then.

How times have changed.

 

[Nelson Montana]

And once again, everyone misses the point, and argues something that wasn't even said.