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how much can u gain?
- Thread starter tay1506
- Start date
Keep in mind that for bodyfat levels to remain constant you will add muscle and proportionate amount of fat to maintain the ratio. Most people allow bodyfat levels to drift up a bit so this will mean even more fat. I honestly don't know how much pure muscle a human body can synthesize in a week. Not something to worry about, keep your big lifts going up and watch to make sure your bodyfat isn't increasing too fast - if so, cut back on your intake a bit. Pretty easy stuff.
Extra_Strong
Well-known member
you body weight will go back and forth from day to day also..
Be sure you weigh 1st thing in the morning while you are empty..
Be sure you weigh 1st thing in the morning while you are empty..
raze
New member
tay1506 said:
he must have ment 1lb a week.... it depends on muscle and fat, the scales isnt the best measure of how much muscle you have put on, best way is to probably measure yourself arms, chest etc. if there getting bigger than thats good ! dont stress to much when i first started eating and training for a few weeks there i grabed 2 kilos a week and that sure as hell wasnt all muscle. train big, eat big!
No i ment 1 lb. a day or almost that ive done it before when i lifted about a year ago but i think most of it is fat, but my pants dont seem to be getting tighter. Im natural and im 18 which means it might be like i take steroids. Extra_strong is probly right i need to weigh myself in the morning however i almost always weigh myself in the evening. Ive been eating about 4500 cals a day try to keep it as good as i can, but its hard when i cant buy my own food. As of 3 weeks ago i was about 145 and in 2 weeks i went up to 152 and now i started eating more since sunday and im now at 157
Protobuilder
New member
Fat gain, IMO.
If you're eating that many calories, a lot of the weight gain you're seeing day to day is probably all the food that you've eaten just chillin in your intestines waiting to get digested.
When I used to wrestle I used to walk around at close to 200 and then cut down to 189 for matches. By the end of a tournament, through eating and rehydrating, my weight would go up like 7 or 8 lbs. But, obviously I wasn't gaining back 7 or 8 lbs of muscle. You'd be surprised how much water weight and food weight you hold. If you're not weighing yourself in a consistent state than the numbers you get won't be that meaningful.
Like madcow said, just make sure your lifts are going up, then use the mirror( or better yet a camera, or even better bf calipers) to make sure your bf isn't getting too high and the rest should take care of itself
When I used to wrestle I used to walk around at close to 200 and then cut down to 189 for matches. By the end of a tournament, through eating and rehydrating, my weight would go up like 7 or 8 lbs. But, obviously I wasn't gaining back 7 or 8 lbs of muscle. You'd be surprised how much water weight and food weight you hold. If you're not weighing yourself in a consistent state than the numbers you get won't be that meaningful.
Like madcow said, just make sure your lifts are going up, then use the mirror( or better yet a camera, or even better bf calipers) to make sure your bf isn't getting too high and the rest should take care of itself
ghettostudmuffin
New member
Hmm, at 157lbs I'd never accuse you of using steroids.
TheOak84 said:
At about 515 lbs.
That will be something to see.
I started 10 lbs. below and yeah i hope so im eating to much even when im not hungry i eat until i feel like im gona throw up. I think that i shouldent eat as much before i work out cuz i feel sick as hell like right now i even do and i havent eatin in 3 hours bout to go make somethin!
I don't know the progression and incriments you intend to you or even can use (i.e. with 2.5's that give you 2 weeks). Hopefully it's enough but the idea is to get a solid progression over time. That is what will beat your current PRs. Not just going in there and doing your PRs and hoping it works.
yeah i may have set it to high cuz i planned on growing insane like the week before i started 5x5 but i dono doesent seem to be working that well. I just dont feel like ive worked out hard enough afterwards, but ill give it a few more weeks if its not working at all im gona go back.
tay1506 said:
LOL, well you kind of botched the weight selection and started too high. That's the classic way to screw this program up totally - warning #1. I'll probably have to edit the novice version to be more explicit. If you are putting on all that weight, how can you be complaining? I'm kind of getting iffy vibes so we are going to go at this another way:
Why don't you throw down your training history.
Weight, Height, Years lifting, goals, what has worked for you in the past, what hasn't, what you were doing recently, and current lifts in the core exercises. Also, what 5x5 are you doing? Please provide a link or something.
These are "cookie cutter" programs and the bottom line is that neither might be a good fit for you right now. There are some fantastic programs out there being used by elite lifters that would lead to overtraining and zero results for most people. That doesn't mean the elite lifter's program suck, it means there might not be a good fit for that program and the average person.
ok heres everything im 5' 7" weigh 157, 12-14 %bf been lifting since about 8th grade football off and on never really gained to much on anything however until the end of 11th grade i only weighed 125 now im a senior and 18. I bench press 4 x 215 i was hoping to get to 300 lbs. by january 7th and then stop bulking and start cutting for summer which is really early in texas. I squat and deadlift the exact same that i bench i never used to work legs or back that much. Ive only been on the 5x5 now for the second week. I started working out really hard about the last 4 months. I started at my max bench at about 170 lbs. 4 months ago dont know my squat or deads. I was going up alot around 7 lbs. a week. when i started using this workout plan i made up.
i did 3 x 6 or 8 everytime i got 6 down i would move up to 8 the next day and so on.
I rested alot between sets like 2-4 min until i thought i was almost back to normal
Arms/back: mon.; wed.; fri.
Bicep curl
Curls w/dumbbells
Tricep pull w/rope
Close grip BP
Rigid Lat pull
shoulder press
curls w/bar
curls w/pulley
skull crushers
tricep pull down w/bar
seated row
front db raise
In the morning on mon., tue, thur., fri., i ran for 1 hour and did abs for 1 hour
Chest/forearms and legs: Tue., Thu., Sat.
Bench Press
Multi chest
Db hammer curls
cable reverse curls
Bp w/dumbbells
Decline BP
pushups 3x20: just tried to wear myself out on these and arm pulls tell i couldent move
arm pulls 1x20
legs:alot of the time i dident get to this however i rode the bike on high resistance for 30 min and thats what killed me to walk
Squat
Leg extension
calf lift
leg press
seated leg curl
i did everything in the order i have it listed in. I would usually work out each body part with 4 types of lifts and seperate it into 2x usually with about 20 min inbetween each 2 lifts. It would alow me to recover alot sometimes making me able to do more than what i could being just warmed up a little. It is kinda like the 1-6 principle in a way. It took me awhile and i used what i know about me and all the lifting i have ever done to make it and it seemed to work very well however i had no deloading which i think caused me to start to over train after the 4th or 3rd week. I heard how good the 5x5 were so i decided id chill and give it a try, but i just dont feel like i did when i did my own routine besides the deads killing me. I can actually get some sleep at night now but i dont feel anything the next day.
Anyways theres my old routine that i used for about 8 weeks and it is what made me go from 185 to about 145. I even have all my results written down if that interests u.
Well thanks for helpin me and readin this i know its long or atleast it seems that way!
i did 3 x 6 or 8 everytime i got 6 down i would move up to 8 the next day and so on.
I rested alot between sets like 2-4 min until i thought i was almost back to normal
Arms/back: mon.; wed.; fri.
Bicep curl
Curls w/dumbbells
Tricep pull w/rope
Close grip BP
Rigid Lat pull
shoulder press
curls w/bar
curls w/pulley
skull crushers
tricep pull down w/bar
seated row
front db raise
In the morning on mon., tue, thur., fri., i ran for 1 hour and did abs for 1 hour
Chest/forearms and legs: Tue., Thu., Sat.
Bench Press
Multi chest
Db hammer curls
cable reverse curls
Bp w/dumbbells
Decline BP
pushups 3x20: just tried to wear myself out on these and arm pulls tell i couldent move
arm pulls 1x20
legs:alot of the time i dident get to this however i rode the bike on high resistance for 30 min and thats what killed me to walk
Squat
Leg extension
calf lift
leg press
seated leg curl
i did everything in the order i have it listed in. I would usually work out each body part with 4 types of lifts and seperate it into 2x usually with about 20 min inbetween each 2 lifts. It would alow me to recover alot sometimes making me able to do more than what i could being just warmed up a little. It is kinda like the 1-6 principle in a way. It took me awhile and i used what i know about me and all the lifting i have ever done to make it and it seemed to work very well however i had no deloading which i think caused me to start to over train after the 4th or 3rd week. I heard how good the 5x5 were so i decided id chill and give it a try, but i just dont feel like i did when i did my own routine besides the deads killing me. I can actually get some sleep at night now but i dont feel anything the next day.
Anyways theres my old routine that i used for about 8 weeks and it is what made me go from 185 to about 145. I even have all my results written down if that interests u.
Well thanks for helpin me and readin this i know its long or atleast it seems that way!
1) You didn't list the "5x5" you are doing, it's important
2) You are on your second week and complaining of not getting stronger and being stuck in your lifts. That says to me two things. A - totally inappropriate expectations B - you started your weights too high, you shouldn't even be able to tell whether you are getting stronger or not for a few weeks and that's because you shouldn't be near your max capacity in the lifts. It's the progression that's the key, the order of exercises, frequency, and workload play a part but you can't just go in one day with your heaviest weights, do some work and expect that all of a sudden you're going to be stronger for it.
So, you'll probably have to reset all your weights lower and scale up systematically over 4 weeks to where you are now. You will also likely need some patience. Maybe read through training theory links here on this page for a bit in your spare time: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm Also, please link or post the workout you are doing.
2) You are on your second week and complaining of not getting stronger and being stuck in your lifts. That says to me two things. A - totally inappropriate expectations B - you started your weights too high, you shouldn't even be able to tell whether you are getting stronger or not for a few weeks and that's because you shouldn't be near your max capacity in the lifts. It's the progression that's the key, the order of exercises, frequency, and workload play a part but you can't just go in one day with your heaviest weights, do some work and expect that all of a sudden you're going to be stronger for it.
So, you'll probably have to reset all your weights lower and scale up systematically over 4 weeks to where you are now. You will also likely need some patience. Maybe read through training theory links here on this page for a bit in your spare time: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm Also, please link or post the workout you are doing.
anotherbutters
New member
madcow, you've mentioned ramping up a couple of times in the last couple of days. I've just taken a week off for a deload/breather. I thought it would be best to jump back in just under my PRs next week, match my PRs the week after, then attempt to break them after that (single factor 5x5).
From your posts, I get the impression that the ramping itself is enough to get stronger (given sufficient intensity) and that I don't necessarily need to hit the PRs as soon. Is this correct? You've made me wonder whether I should drop the weights a little more.
From your posts, I get the impression that the ramping itself is enough to get stronger (given sufficient intensity) and that I don't necessarily need to hit the PRs as soon. Is this correct? You've made me wonder whether I should drop the weights a little more.
Extra_Strong
Well-known member
Madcow2 said:
I love this guy Madcow "Numbro Uno"anotherbutters said:
What makes most any program work is systematic progression over time and progressive overload. You should have a period of weeks in there before hitting a PR again. Unless you are a beginner, you aren't going to get stronger workout to workout. You are going to have to do it over time. It's not the one workout PR that makes you stronger, it's the incrimental steps on the way. I'd target several weeks probably at least 3 weeks of ramping and then on the fourth week you hit your previous PR. Probably 4 weeks, hitting your previous best on week 4 and then and PR on the 5th is a better way.
anotherbutters
New member
Ok, that's interesting. I've learnt something important - thanks 
I've been following the SF 5x5 and most of the time I've been lucky enough to set PRs from week to week. I thought it was the setting of PRs and staying right on the edge of what I could lift that was driving the strength gains.
But what you're saying is that I could still get stronger using submaximal weights, so long as there is the progression, right? So over time, the weights will ratchet up like a sawtooth as you hit plateaus and drop back again, but you still get stronger in the troughs? I've been seeing the troughs, where you use submaximal weights as 'downtime' that don't contribute to strength gains, which is why I was planning on keeping them short and getting back to PR weights ASAP.
Now I see why you can break through a plateau by taking a step back. It's not a step back, it's just a way of getting the ramping going again. Cool!
I've been following the SF 5x5 and most of the time I've been lucky enough to set PRs from week to week. I thought it was the setting of PRs and staying right on the edge of what I could lift that was driving the strength gains.
But what you're saying is that I could still get stronger using submaximal weights, so long as there is the progression, right? So over time, the weights will ratchet up like a sawtooth as you hit plateaus and drop back again, but you still get stronger in the troughs? I've been seeing the troughs, where you use submaximal weights as 'downtime' that don't contribute to strength gains, which is why I was planning on keeping them short and getting back to PR weights ASAP.
Now I see why you can break through a plateau by taking a step back. It's not a step back, it's just a way of getting the ramping going again. Cool!
Actually yeah. If you think about a beginner, he can PR every workout mutliple times a week, eventually it's weekly PRs with maybe some Heavy, Light, Medium type work inside the single week with non PR weight, later those PRs get further and further appart - could be 8 weeks appart under some periodization plan or something else. So if the PRs are the saw teeth, think about the teeth getting further and further appart as real maximal progression gets rarer and rarer and periods of submaximal work to stimulate progression get longer and longer. Granted that's a 10,000 foot view and you'll have to manage your training to get those PRs but that's the jist.
So you haven't been setting PR's so much just because of 1 workout, but you've been setting them because of the constant incrimental progression and momentum. If you really need to prove it to yourself look at your lifts stalling - if all it took was PRs to get you gains, you'd have seen something in those stalled lifts. Bottom line, your progression and momentum so to speak stalled out on you. A lot of people might do a whole different program at that point but really, what you need to do is recovery and build momentum again and try to break through and see how long that can carry you (maybe you get a few weeks of PRs out of it).
Not as clear as I'd like but I'm thinking you are getting it.
So you haven't been setting PR's so much just because of 1 workout, but you've been setting them because of the constant incrimental progression and momentum. If you really need to prove it to yourself look at your lifts stalling - if all it took was PRs to get you gains, you'd have seen something in those stalled lifts. Bottom line, your progression and momentum so to speak stalled out on you. A lot of people might do a whole different program at that point but really, what you need to do is recovery and build momentum again and try to break through and see how long that can carry you (maybe you get a few weeks of PRs out of it).
Not as clear as I'd like but I'm thinking you are getting it.
Alright ill move back a step witht the weights i thought i set them low enough like i used the calculator for my max bench and set it back 20 lbs. from the first week but im already stuck. Im using pretty much the animal mass 5x5 with bench, squat, and deads everyday. I also read every thread i could on the topic, but ill also read this one sometime tomorrow thanks for the link. I guess im just not used to not going up strength every week. Do u think i should add something to it cuz i just dont feel like its doing anything i mean obviously it is, but i would like to feel tired later on that night after my workout. Thanks for the help madcow2 greatly appreciated!
tay1506 said:
First - that isn't the program contained in the Animalmass topic. It's not even close if you are deadlifting every day.
Second - I would suspect with overwhelming confidence that you will make much better progress without a full blown periodized program (which the post from Animalmass on page 1 was). The workload will be too high for you and you will make faster and more consistent progress using a week to week progression (but you will still need to start significantly below your maxes and work up).
Do something like this.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15
Frankly I still detect massive problems in implimentation. If you are using the periodized program, you shouldn't be anywhere near your current max until weeks 3/4 - so I just don't get how you are still in week 2 saying that your bench didn't go up. You shouldn't even know. To be honest, the nature of these programs is that you might not see any progress until the deload period - might even drop in performance during loading. And this is why you shouldn't be using it at this point. You need to get basic training together and progress week to week (which entails a different template and a much different level or workload).
Like i said ive read alot just dont understand alot of it and no i recover so quick it is amazing ill be tired for about 5 hours sometimes my legs will be sore and my knees will hurt alot, but no chest. The only reason my legs are sore i because i dont work them much.
Madcow2 how much do most gain in week 4?
I guess im gona just go back to what i was doing before until i get up to 300 on bench, squats, and deads. Than i will experiment with stuff, but i think my workout i was doing before was better for me because of my fast recovery. I mean i pretty much worked arms and chest everyday and thats y i went up so much. The only problem i had was my veins popping out so much and causing my arms to feel like i was being cut by a knife.
Anyways thanks for thelp madcow2 greatly appreciated!!!!
Madcow2 how much do most gain in week 4?
I guess im gona just go back to what i was doing before until i get up to 300 on bench, squats, and deads. Than i will experiment with stuff, but i think my workout i was doing before was better for me because of my fast recovery. I mean i pretty much worked arms and chest everyday and thats y i went up so much. The only problem i had was my veins popping out so much and causing my arms to feel like i was being cut by a knife.
Anyways thanks for thelp madcow2 greatly appreciated!!!!
anotherbutters
New member
Sorry for hijacking your thread tay
It's a very crude graph, but I was picturing something like this:
The blue line is actual strength, the red line is the weight you lift in the gym. When you first start working out, strength goes up quickly, which is why you can set PRs more than once a week - the first steep red line. But then it slows and you have to drop back to PRs once a week - the next 3 red lines. You stall when the lines meet (crudely speaking), but dropping back and ramping up again kicks off the strength gains again, so by the time you're at the stall weight again, you're stronger and break through it. But the plateaus come sooner and sooner because the strength gains get slower. Eventually, you have to switch to something line PRs every 4-8 weeks - the final shallow red line, because the strength gains are hard to make (much flatter blue line).
The bit I didn't realise was that the blue line goes up when the red line goes up. That explains why the people who go to the gym and lift the same PR weights week after week and wonder why they aren't making progress aren't actually making progress. Their strength isn't going up because there isn't the progression - they've flatlined
If I had realised all this a couple of weeks ago, I would have approached the plateau I've just reached differently. Thanks again.
Yes, that's perfectly clear. I know this is really simple stuff and I've seen people using submaximal weights to make progress, e.g. Guinness5.0 on his HST run - 3 two week periods of ramping, but it just didn't click until your post above.Madcow2 said:
It's a very crude graph, but I was picturing something like this:
The blue line is actual strength, the red line is the weight you lift in the gym. When you first start working out, strength goes up quickly, which is why you can set PRs more than once a week - the first steep red line. But then it slows and you have to drop back to PRs once a week - the next 3 red lines. You stall when the lines meet (crudely speaking), but dropping back and ramping up again kicks off the strength gains again, so by the time you're at the stall weight again, you're stronger and break through it. But the plateaus come sooner and sooner because the strength gains get slower. Eventually, you have to switch to something line PRs every 4-8 weeks - the final shallow red line, because the strength gains are hard to make (much flatter blue line).
The bit I didn't realise was that the blue line goes up when the red line goes up. That explains why the people who go to the gym and lift the same PR weights week after week and wonder why they aren't making progress aren't actually making progress. Their strength isn't going up because there isn't the progression - they've flatlined
If I had realised all this a couple of weeks ago, I would have approached the plateau I've just reached differently. Thanks again.
Yeah i see what u mean thats why i guess i jump up so fast from 170 to 145 because i stopped workin out for 5 months. So can u take like a month off drop down like 30 lbs. on everything and then hit it hard for about 4 months and achieve the same as if u were working out for 5 months straight?
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