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How Do You Rate?

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
HOW DO YOU RATE?

Are Your Muscles as Strong as They Should Be?

Nelson Montana


Yeah, I know. You're a bodybuilder, and that has little to do with how much weight you can lift. Increased strength is a pleasant side effect to bodybuilding but increases in muscle mass and lifting ability aren't necessarily synonymous. We see examples of it all the time. Every gym has that guy who doesn't look at all impressive who can outlift the guys with the competition level physique. Humbling, isn't it?

It's important to train in one manner or another in order to achieve your objective. If large shapely muscles are the goal, you'll need to pump the various muscle groups with blood using strict form, moderate weight and tempo, an 8-12 rep range, a variety of movements, and short rest periods between sets. If getting better at a particular lift is your goal, practice that lift -- as heavy as possible.

Muscle growth may be your main objective but increasing strength has its advantages. It's the most tangible gauge of progress. It allows for more stress and ultimately, more growth. And besides, bodybuilders are expected to be strong! Even if you won't be entering any powerlifting contests in the near future, there's no reason you have to use pitiful poundage in the major lifts. Sometimes you have to show that all that muscle is useful for more than just looking good!

This line of thinking is what leads most bodybuilders to test themselves every now and then to see just how strong they really are. The problem with such a practice is that they attempt a one rep maximum lift.

Maximum lifts are not the best test of strength! Maximum lifts are the best way to injure yourself!

Single rep maxes are a catastrophe waiting to happen. And the last thing a bodybuilder needs is an injury that will put his training on hold and sabotage progress -- not to mention the pain that persists long after the injury occurs. Don't be a fool.

What's also ironic is that a one rep max isn't even a very good indicator of muscular strength. When forced to lift a maximum load, it's the bones and tendons that take on the majority of stress. That's why so many Olympic and Powerlifting champions aren't exactly sculpted specimens of muscularity. They're more big, blocky, thick-boned powerhouses. In the case of squatters, overall height is a tremendous factor. Shorter men have a distinct advantage over taller men since not only is their center of gravity better positioned, they also have to move the weight less distance to achieve lockout.

A truer test of muscular strength would be to lift in the higher rep range. Some people erroneously believe that higher reps are more a matter of endurance and aerobic ability, but that's a misnomer. The completion of 20 repetitions can take under a minute - hardly a barometer of long distance stamina.

Many methods devised to test strength require complex calculations. You know the type. Take three-quarters of your one rep max (which is impossible to determine without potential harm) and divide it by 4, then add 15 pounds and yada, yada, yada. What I propose here is much simpler. It takes into consideration the individual's bodyweight and adjusts the testing accordingly. The entire experiment takes just a few minutes. It's also fun! Are you up for the challenge? If so, take this test now and find out how strong you really are!

Pushups:
It doesn't get any simpler than this. The old pushup is an all but forgotten exercise that is excellent for building definition throughout the pectorals and anterior deltoids. It's also an outstanding indicator of upper body strength. (Which is why it's still used by firefighters as a yardstick of their ability to perform strength related tasks.)

It's irrelevant how much you weigh in order to test yourself. Give yourself as much time as you need (as long as you don't take the weight off of your arms at any point or stop for more than 10 seconds). If you're capable of completing over 100 push-ups, you are indeed a man's-man! Even 50 is still excellent. 30-40 is okay, but if you can't eke out at least 25, it's time to start specializing on your functional strength. Incidentally, although the two moves are similar, a good bench presser isn't always good at pushups. The reason being; pushups require more work from the stabilizer muscles, whereas bench pressing is more of a leverage lift.

Curls Against a Wall:
While holding a barbell, stand with your shoulders, back, butt and rear of your upper arms against a wall, feet shoulder length apart, approximately 14" forward.

Without any alteration of this position, or bending at the knees, curl the barbell to your shoulders maintaining a strict form throughout. If you weigh under 160 pounds, then a curl of 100 pounds for 4 reps is superior to most bodybuilders your weight. 80 is good. 60 is fair. If you weigh between 170 and 190, 4 reps with a 120 pound bar is superior, 100 is good and 80 is fair. If you're 200 pounds or more, you'll need to curl 140 pounds for 4 reps to be considered superior. 130 is good and a fair weight would be 110 pounds.

Chin-ups to Failure:
Once again, here we have a basic and brutal test of strength. Chin-ups are different from the chins you might do to develop your back. When working lats, the movement must be controlled and deliberate. The grip is overhand and the head moves back from the bar as you raise yourself in order to stress the latissimus. When performing chin-ups, the grip is underhand and you can use some "swing" in order to get your chin above the bar. If you can do 20, you're in good shape. More than 30 shows tremendous upper body strength. 15 is acceptable. Less than 10 is pretty bad. If that's the case, it's time to lay off that comfortable lat pulldown (with the light weight) and start chinning!

Body Weight Benching:
In order to keep it safe and keep it simple, try this. Warm up to make sure the muscles aren't cold. Then take a barbell that matches your total bodyweight. If you feel this is too much to complete at least 4 reps, abort the test! Don't feel bad. It's better to be safe than sorry. If you can knock out 5-8 reps, you're doing all right. If you can complete more than 10 reps, you're a damn strong dude. If you can do more than 25 reps, people better not tick you off because you're one intimidating son of a bitch.

Seated Holdout To Front:
This is probably the most exacting test of shoulder strength you'll ever find. Sit on a flat bench with a back rest. Lift a barbell and press it overhead. Then slowly lower it forward, keeping the arms straight until it's positioned at eye level and arm's length. Hold the bar in this static position for a count of five. If you're under 200 pounds and you can hold 75 pounds for 5 seconds, you can rate yourself as possessing superior shoulder strength. 65 pounds is good. 50 is fair. Less than 45 pounds is weak. If you weigh over 200 pounds, you'll need to hold a 90 pound bar to rate superior. 75 is good. 65 is fair. If you can't hold at least 50 pounds, you either need more deltoid work or you're carrying far too much fat and not enough muscle. Work on it.

Rep Squatting:
As mentioned, one's anatomy has as much to do with their squatting ability as does their muscular strength. Yet, if you want a reliable test of your leg and lung power, give this assessment a go.

Take a barbell that weighs half of your bodyweight. Now, perform as many deep squats as possible in a time span of one minute. Many non or beginning trainers wouldn't reach double digits on this one, but 25 reps is about average for an experienced bodybuilder. 30-40 is extraordinary. And if you can bang out more than 50 of those suckers...DAMN!

You may have noticed, no point system was used. That's because this test isn't meant to be a competition. Instead, it's a way of each individual judging his own capabilities. If you decide to test yourself on an ongoing basis, you may want to do it on an off-day when you're fresh. The test alone will be quite a workout! As a matter of fact, this type of training makes for a nice change of pace to your regular routine or as an addition to it when you want to step up your training volume.

So how strong are you? It doesn't matter if you don't excel at every movement, for most people have their weaknesses in one lift or another. But even if strength isn't your main priority, it's always good to know where you stand. It's also a good idea to check how far along you've come. See for yourself.





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Sillyness.....

What are your personal lifts like? Post up your lifts Nelson - what are YOUR stats? How about a pic... At least that Ross fool could back up some of his banter w/ a result or two.

Please keep this 'stuff' for the summer juicers.... Some of us on this part of EF are hoping for an about-face and thread like this encourage the morons to visit.
 
wow...thanks for sharing really. Does this mean we get 2 weeks of regurgitated posts before you start pushing products on this board?
 
this is nelson:
http://www.nelsonmontana.com/gallery.html

nelson:
things work differently here. strength builds muscle. the weightlifters you speak of can and do sometimes diet down and get contest or near contest physiques. and i'm not even talking about freaks like pudzianowski here. and on the other end of the spectrum there's coleman who, say what you will about genetics and drugs, deadlifts 800+. there are lots of examples right here on this very forum of guys who lift HEAVY and look far better than the summer winny cycle turds elsewhere on EF.
 
al420 said:
Sillyness.....

What are your personal lifts like? Post up your lifts Nelson - what are YOUR stats? How about a pic... At least that Ross fool could back up some of his banter w/ a result or two.

Please keep this 'stuff' for the summer juicers.... Some of us on this part of EF are hoping for an about-face and thread like this encourage the morons to visit.

Wow, forgive me posting something that might be a little fun and related to bodybuilding. Who stuck the stick up YOUR ass?

News flash bro. This board isn't your private sandbox. It's for everybody. If you don't want to read a thread, go to the next one. Time lost -- 3 seconds. The thing is, you already commented on this post in the other forum, so what's your problem? You think that bitching makes you the "savior of Elite."

And do you really care what my personal lifts are? Grow up dude.
 
s8nlilhlpr said:
wow...thanks for sharing really. Does this mean we get 2 weeks of regurgitated posts before you start pushing products on this board?

I've only made a handful of posts in this forum -- almost all of them were training articles -- which have gotten very positive responses.

Meanwhile, this post had nothing to do with supplements and you're on my ass?

Sorry for trying to discuss bodybuilding. My bad.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I've only made a handful of posts in this forum -- almost all of them were training articles -- which have gotten very positive responses.

Meanwhile, this post had nothing to do with supplements and you're on my ass?

Sorry for trying to discuss bodybuilding. My bad.

Yes, I'm on your ass. I've seen all the retarded crap going on the AAS board right now and don't want it over here. Any clue why 'supps' are being pushed over there instead of on the supplement board? What about your guys buddy Ross, banned again?

Most of the training articles, you are posting on every single board, a simple copy and paste. Its nothing new, its not particularly interesting. I've sure you have a stash of these articles and just post new ones up randomly.

Stick to the 150lb 'roid monsters' over on the other board.
 
s8nlilhlpr said:
Yes, I'm on your ass. I've seen all the retarded crap going on the AAS board right now and don't want it over here.
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OKAY. YOU'RE THE BOSS.


....................................................................

Any clue why 'supps' are being pushed over there instead of on the supplement board?
...........................................................

SUPPS ARE A PART OF BODYBUILDING AND THE ONES I DESIGNED CAN, AND SHOULD, BE USED BY THE ENHANCED ATHLETE. BUT I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO USE ANYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO.

..............................................................

What about your guys buddy Ross, banned again?

................................................................

I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ROSS NOR WHY HE WAS BANNED NOR DO I CARE. WHY DO YOU?

.................................................................

Most of the training articles, you are posting on every single board, a simple copy and paste.

................................................................

DUDE, I WROTE THEM ALL!


............................................................
Its nothing new, its not particularly interesting. I've sure you have a stash of these articles and just post new ones up randomly.

....................................................................

AND FEEL FREE TO POST ALL YOUR INTERESTING ARTICLES.


..................................................................

Stick to the 150lb 'roid monsters' over on the other board.

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SORRY YOU HAVE SUCH DISTAIN FOR OTHER MEMBERS. I JUST THOUGHT THE BOARD WAS ABOUT SHARING IDEAS. APPARENTLY IT'S ABOUT ONLY WHAT YOU WANT.

..
 
Just post up your lifts, if you even lift anylonger - seem to remember you saying you didn;t have time for it anymore...

Where are your traps? Do you have a supp that will make them grow - if so start taking it immediatly. In this sandbox we respect yokes, lifts, and not nonsense banter from sub 200lb 'monsters'

Maybe you need some more Unleashed Big Blast Super Extreme XR7K2.

Please go back in your hole.
 
al420 said:
Just post up your lifts, if you even lift anylonger - seem to remember you saying you didn;t have time for it anymore...


..............................................................

YOU HEARD WRONG



.....................................................................

Where are your traps? Do you have a supp that will make them grow - if so start taking it immediatly.

...................................................

I'M SORRY IF MY TRAPS ARE TOO SMALL FOR YOU, THEREFORE MAKING ME WORTHY OF YOUR SCORN. ACTUALLY, I DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF BIG TRAPS, IT NARROWS THE SHOULDERS. WHERE'S YOUR PIC BY THE WAY?


..............................................................................



In this sandbox we respect yokes, lifts, and not nonsense banter from sub 200lb 'monsters'

......................................................................

I'M NOT A POWERLIFTER. I THOUGHT THE BOARD WAS ABOUT WEIGHT TRAINING. IN THAT CASE, I DON'T DO TOO BADLY. I'M NOT REAL BIG AND I'M 53 AND I STILL DO PULLDOWNS AND ROWS WITH THE RACK. CURLS WITH 50 LB DUMBELLS, CLEANS AND PRESSES FOR REPS WITH 150LBS AND SQUATS CLOSE TO 300 LBS WITH A TORN MEDISCUS. I'LL BET YOU'RE IMPRESSED NOW, AINT CHA?

............................................................

Maybe you need some more Unleashed Big Blast Super Extreme XR7K2.

...........................................................

I NEVER HEARD OF SUPER EXTREME XR7K2. IS IT GOOD? BIG BLAST IS AWESOME. POWERLIFTERS LOVE IT.

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Please go back in your hole.

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NOW IF I WANTED TO BE A PRICK I'D COMMENT ABOUT MY "HOLE" BEING A PART OF YOUR WIFE'S ANATOMY. BUT I'LL REFRAIN. (LAUGH IT UP BRO, IT'S JUST A MESSAGE BOARD).

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, TRY AND FIND A LIFE, WILL YA?
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I find this thread ironic, seeing that this section of the board is mostly people concerned with strength based around the big 3. Your post is obviously directed at fluffing BB'ers that dont know what a squat is. Judging from your "before" pics on your website, I would gamble that you didnt know what a squat or deadlift was either.

Since you are interested in helping people gain strength too, what would you recommend to a lifter who wears size small underwear with 13" legs? Im not interested in supps, as this is the training board.
 
JohnRobHolmes said:
I find this thread ironic, seeing that this section of the board is mostly people concerned with strength based around the big 3. Your post is obviously directed at fluffing BB'ers that dont know what a squat is. Judging from your "before" pics on your website, I would gamble that you didnt know what a squat or deadlift was either.

Since you are interested in helping people gain strength too, what would you recommend to a lifter who wears size small underwear with 13" legs? Im not interested in supps, as this is the training board.


Are you serious? So let me get this straight...you're blaming me for having lousy genetics even though I managed to build myself up to the point where I placed in the NPC competition? Dude, that's what it's all about. Progress. I'd say I made plenty.

I'm willing got give people the benefit of the doubt but that statement was flat out stupid.
 
As I have seen you give as advice to others, remember this is the internet. Chill out a bit and realize that not all posts are serious. You have obviously made progress with routines meant to build "large shapely" muscles.

I would still like some advice on how to build 11" legs up to 30". Did you get your legs so big without using any drugs? I would feel much more comfortable taking advice knowing that your gains were from a proper routine and not supplements like they give cows and chickens to have big muscles.

I blame no one but my parents for my genetics, which I have never thought twice about. No sense in wasting any energy wishing I was somebody that I am not. I like me how I am, and I will use my extra energy to get my squat up another 100lbs.


Dont mind me if I am skeptical of your posts, Your sig is longer than most of your posts so it just throws me off.
 
lol...it seemed like he was just trying to make a fun post, if i was new to training id have jumped on it and had fun with the strength tests he posted...

i dont know about the history though between him and everyone else
 
JohnRobHolmes said:
As I have seen you give as advice to others, remember this is the internet. Chill out a bit and realize that not all posts are serious. You have obviously made progress with routines meant to build "large shapely" muscles.

I would still like some advice on how to build 11" legs up to 30". Did you get your legs so big without using any drugs? I would feel much more comfortable taking advice knowing that your gains were from a proper routine and not supplements like they give cows and chickens to have big muscles.

I blame no one but my parents for my genetics, which I have never thought twice about. No sense in wasting any energy wishing I was somebody that I am not. I like me how I am, and I will use my extra energy to get my squat up another 100lbs.


Dont mind me if I am skeptical of your posts, Your sig is longer than most of your posts so it just throws me off.


Sorry for the long sig. I have to get those banners. But anyway, I've brought it up before...in ALL of the pics on my website I was NATURAL -- never touched a drug, except for the competition pic where I used 400mgs TOTAL -- which is HALF of what most of the guys on the steroid board recommend to a first timer.

I understand wanting strength over shape. That's cool. But that too is genetically determined to an extent. We're all here to do better, whatever our goals are -- which is why I can't understand when someone gets so angry because a post isn't exactly the way he wants it to be. What is that?
 
JohnRobHolmes said:
You got me, no anger here. So what made the change for you? Proper lifting and diet then?

Basically finding the most effective methods -- training diet, supps. Mostly training. I simplified everything and avoided less effective methods. That made all the difference.
 
Any rep targets for jumping jacks, or maybe waving your arms around in small circles?

Inury prevention should be #1 priority but not at the expense of having your testicles removed.
 
Tweakle said:
Any rep targets for jumping jacks, or maybe waving your arms around in small circles?

Inury prevention should be #1 priority but not at the expense of having your testicles removed.


Like you know jack shit - how many squat-thrusts can you do? What about blindfolded deadlifts?

BTW - Canadians are pussies - especially GSP.
 
Hey, wait a minute... im not a canadian, never mind a frenchie. I just live here :)

looking at nelsons 'safe' excercises for testing strength one thing stands out, that's the jerky shitty reps people will be doing to try to cram as many Balance Bar squats into a minute as possible, or the reccomendation to do kipping squirming chin-ups instead of real chins.

not really that safe.
 
al420 said:
Like you know jack shit - how many squat-thrusts can you do? What about blindfolded deadlifts?

BTW - Canadians are pussies - especially GSP.

now now..

calling george saint peire a pussy isn't very nice.

lets be honest too, it's probably nothing you'd ever call him to his face.

.. because he'd break yours..
 
I actually see a place for some kipping or knee raising pullups. Strict form has a place as well. It is nice to stack on a bit of extra weight and get it up with a bit of oomph.
 
FriendlyCanadian said:
now now..

calling george saint peire a pussy isn't very nice.

lets be honest too, it's probably nothing you'd ever call him to his face.

.. because he'd break yours..


I dunno...GSP fights lightweight correct? Thats like a buck fifty. Sure he looks great with his shirt off...but so does 'jkurz'. He is pretty good at MMA, too bad he got his ass whooped last match..
 
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