Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below As some of you know, my wife and I have been going through the Invitro Fertilization (IVF) process to get her pregnant. Well shes finally pregnant, yay. Now I have a shit load of left over medications that she had to take. One of which is HMG (human menopausal gonadotrophin). I've heard it may be as good or better than H.C.G. - human chorionic gonadotropin for P.C.T. Anybody have any expierience or opinions on this?
HMG vs HCG
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Mr. Black
New member
I am running HMG & HCG right now. In an attempt to bump up my total t, (which I feel is lower than it should be due to my past AAS use) I will be running Menopur @ 75iu/day, HCG 1000iu MWF, Nolva 20mg/day and Aromasin 25mgeod. All compounds will be ran for 3 months. I will then get tested and see if my total T and more importantly Bio-Available T improves.
Mr. Black said:
I would be a little worried about using 3000iu/week for 3 months.....HCG will shut you down, so as soon as you discontinue the use it's like doing a 3 month cycle with no PCT..... Interesting concept though!
You think that you have a problem with the test production from your testies or with the signal from the pituitary gland?
If it's the gland, taking that much HCG will further supress the pituaitary gland's ability to regulate hormons.
Mr. Black
New member
Varga said:
I believe that I suffer from what I call semi primary hypogonadism, which as I see it I have good LH signals but my total test is less than stellar. What I am hoping to do is to re-sensitive my balls (with the help of the HCG & HMG) to LH. In turn, if all goes well, my balls will be more sensitive to LH and will produce more total test (with the same amount of LH). I have read numerous studies whereby endocrinologist have used this type of protcol to treat men who have primary hypogonadism due to AAS abuse/use. There is a great thread posted by Jenetic a while back that details a more severe case of hypogonadism that was treated successfully with the above mentioned protocol.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...py/update-1-5-years-still-shudown-328406.html
For 4 years (now since a nasty Deca cycle) I have suffered with low Bio-Available Tesosterone and a resulting low sex drive. I have tried multiple PCT's in the past in hope of increasing my total test. Unfortunately nothing helped. I have tried HRT and that was simply not for me. At this point in time, I have nothing to lose, I will continue running this relatively unknown protocol in hopes of returning to HPTA to baseline values pre-AAS. 7 Weeks to go...
Mr. Black said:
Thanks for the link, B!
Very interesting approach and I have heard of some similar stories .
This kind throws a curve ball to the theories if you use too much H C G that will desinisize your testies.....
In my opinion it is safe to say that if you done long cycles you need more than one P C T. Most likely months apart! Sometimes I crush 4 months after a cycle, I think that long esters like E Q or D E C A might stay in someone's system for months because I always take H C G on cycles and have good recovery with no problems but months later suddenly my testies start to act up then I hit up another P c T with H C G and I'm back...Kind of weird LOL. What I 'm thinking is that whatever androgens I still have in my system causes a shutdown (I will stand corrected if anybody has otherwise different proof). My guess is that some androgens are hidden in the layers of fat and released months later.....
The guy in that thread seems to me that he needed his testies revived which he besically did but I'm not sure about those high dosages of H C G .......I guess it worked for him and his experience with H C G is definitely another way to look at this problem
I do however think that you need to stay on either nolva or clomid or both few weeks after the H C G discontinuation.
K for you bro, you brought up a good point and good luck to you, keep us informed!
bbkingpin
New member
Don't let your body get used to exogenous supplies or else homeostasis suggests that your body's internal production will shut down. Intermittent or haphazard use is better than consistent long term use. Staying natural (no hcg/hmg/nolva/clomid) for extended periods of time might be the best long term solution. Give yourself a boost or jumpstart (short term solution) but let your body's natural feedback mechanisms do the rest.
Mr. Black
New member
narshh said:
No not at all. Like I said I have nothing to lose. It also helps to know that Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - in itself actually acts as blocking agent to HCG's potential lh - leutenizing hormone - de-sensitizing effects. Read below...
Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men
AG Smals, GF Pieters, JI Drayer, gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - Boers, TJ Benraad and PW Kloppenborg
Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG- induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen- stimulating effect.
bbkingpin said:
After my 3 month stint I plan to go natural and stay that way permanently. I am truly hoping once I am off all compounds and my own LH kicks back in, that my total testosterone will have increased significantly.
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