High Estrone normal Estradiol and sbhg?

[boomer169]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, woo hoo I have some questions concerning some lab results. I am currently on hrt, (androderm patches, yuck) and bromocriptine for elevated prolactin levels.

In 2008 My Endo did a Fractional Serum Estrogen test. My estrone was outside normal ranges while my Estradiol and sbhg were both normal.

My results Reference Ranges
Estrone, srm 68 pg/ml (normal 10-60) (HIGH)
Estradiol 16 pg/ml <54
Estrogen total Srm 84 pg/ml (normal 10-114)
SBHG 14 (normal 13-71)
total test 134 (normal 241-827) (i've since raised total test to 298
Bio test 37.8 (normal 40-250)

Questions:

If the standard Estradiol sensitive essay were administered, would that have shown normal Estradiol levels without showing elevated Estrone?

What causes Estrone to be out of normal ranges while Estradiol and sbhg to be normal? I've always read that Estradiol was the main culprit and reducing it was/is key, however in this case it's normal.

What happens if Estradiol is reduced to zero while getting Estrone in check? Is there any issues with taking an AI that would probably take Estradiol to zero while Estrone to maybe 30 or 40?

I'm going to the lab on Tuesday and get more tests as it has been almost 3 years since my Estrogen levels have been checked. Thanks for the help guys

 

[boomer169]

any 1?

 

[Zyglamail]

Whats your BF% at?

 

[boomer169]

Whats your BF% at?

im fat, 310 pounds and I understand this is part of the problem. However I was under the impression this would increase the so called "bad" estrogen, Estradiol. (due to the whole armoatase activity in the fat cells) Again, Estradiol is normal and Estrone is elevated.

Questions:



What causes Estrone to be out of normal ranges while Estradiol and sbhg to be normal? I've always read that Estradiol was the main culprit and reducing it was/is key, however in this case it's normal.

What happens if Estradiol is reduced to zero while getting Estrone in check? Is there any issues with taking an AI that would probably take Estradiol to zero while Estrone to maybe 30 or 40?

I'm really interested in the last question. If taking the AI will reduce Estradiol to zero while bringing Estrone into normal ranges?

 

[Zyglamail]

There is no bad estrogen, its required, even in men.

Primary sources of Estrone in men is conversion of androstenedione and from adipose tissue.

An anti-e like anastrozole works by affecting the aromatase enzyme which is responsible for converting androstenedione to estrone but in your case, I would suspect your estrone being high is primarily due to you BF and not due to conversion of androstenedione to estrone so while an anti-E may get you back into normal range I would honestly worry less about being a few points over normal on estrone than I would getting your BF under control.

 

[boomer169]

There is no bad estrogen, its required, even in men.

My apologies for calling it bad. Can we call Estradiol the STRONGER of the Estogens, while Estrone is less so?

I would honestly worry less about being a few points over normal on estrone than I would getting your BF under control.

I agree. I'm working on that part too (I was 335 in Jan 2011) However I'm on TRT (2 5mg adroderm patches) and I've developed some nipple sensitivity, (something I failed to mention in the op) and it has been almost 3 year since my Estrogen was tested. (I will be tested this Tuesday)

I believe you did answer the question:

an anti-E may get you back into normal range

So it seems there would be no issues taking Estradiol to zero, especially since Estrone is still available. (and high) Good ol fat cells in action i guess lol

 

[Zyglamail]

Congrats on the weight loss so far, keep up the good work.

Estradiol is the most prominent estrogen, estrone the least abundant. If your total test is still only 298 then there is a good chance the majority of your estrone is from adipose tissue and not aromatisation. The different estogens have slightly different binding affinities so honestly I dont think I would try and lower estradiol to zero. Your estrogen numbers are a tad on the high normal side so I would say perhaps try .5mg anastrozole 3 days a week but I certainly wouldnt try and eliminate estradiol.

I would say the best thing you can do for yourself is adjust your diet and training to burn off more fat. I know some people who have peeled off insane amounts of fat eating a paleo diet and doing crossfit. The nice thing about paleo is you dont have to worry about being hungry, you have limited food choices but can basically eat as much as you want.

 

[boomer169]

Congrats on the weight loss so far, keep up the good work.

thank you kind sir

The different estogens have slightly different binding affinities so honestly I dont think I would try and lower estradiol to zero. .

I apologize if I was not more clear. I was concerned that lowering my Esterone to a "normal" range would make Estradiol level zero IF I were on a theoretical AI ?

Your estrogen numbers are a tad on the high normal side so I would say perhaps try .5mg anastrozole 3 days a week

I suppose at that dose, my Estradiol would not be zero?

I know some people who have peeled off insane amounts of fat eating a paleo diet.

I never heard of this diet before you mentioned it. I did a quick search and found it interesting. I then downloaded a Paleo diet recipe book and I will go from there. I appreciate your thoughtful responses and kind remarks. Those tests are 3 years old, and I can only imagine my levels are worse, not better, especially since I'm on Androderm patches, (yuck)

Thanks for your insight and for what it's worth I will post my results when they are ready. (maybe they will be lower since I'm much lighter than I was 3 years ago too?)

 

[Zyglamail]

I apologize if I was not more clear. I was concerned that lowering my Esterone to a "normal" range would make Estradiol level zero IF I were on a theoretical AI ?

Thats the million dollar question, hard to say for sure. Adding an anti-E likely would have much effect on estrone created by adipose tissue but would have a direct effect on the enzyme that converts androstenedione to estrone. Since your estrone is just a few points over normal range and you are carrying a bit of fat, as mentioned I would worry less about adding chemicals and concentrate more on diet and exercise to burn fat. The more you can accomplish with food and exercise the better.

For now I would just wait and see what the new blood work shows. Most folks here dont even worry about breaking out the different extrogens and I would wager that as you start to drop your BF, estrone will fall right in line. Dont get sidetracked over one of those numbers being a little high right now, keep your eye on the prize and just work at lowering BF and improving overall health.

I never heard of this diet before you mentioned it. I did a quick search and found it interesting. I then downloaded a Paleo diet recipe book and I will go from there. I appreciate your thoughtful responses and kind remarks. Those tests are 3 years old, and I can only imagine my levels are worse, not better, especially since I'm on Androderm patches, (yuck)

Thanks for your insight and for what it's worth I will post my results when they are ready. (maybe they will be lower since I'm much lighter than I was 3 years ago too?)

Paleo is good for meat eaters who are afraid of "dieting" because they think they wont be able to eat enough and will always be hungry.

Crossfit is just a general physical health type program that builds some pretty insane endurance while giving (untrained) folks a decent base of strength, flexibility and conditioning all while burning massive amounts of fat/calories in generally a pretty short amount of time(many workouts are mess than 30 minutes including warmup and cooldown). Many folks use it as a primary exercise routine but alone it wont cut it if your goals are pure strength, size or are a marathon runner but even those folks will often use some crossfit to supplement their sport specific work.

 

[boomer169]

Thats the million dollar question, hard to say for sure. Adding an anti-E likely would have much effect on estrone created by adipose tissue but would have a direct effect on the enzyme that converts androstenedione to estrone. Since your estrone is just a few points over normal range and you are carrying a bit of fat, as mentioned I would worry less about adding chemicals and concentrate more on diet and exercise to burn fat. The more you can accomplish with food and exercise the better.

I agree with this 100% I just have a feeling it's very high (total Estrogen) I haven't had morning wood in so long it's quite sad, and the "patches" haven't really brought it back :/ While on bromocriptine I had 1 awesome sexapade with the wife after the 1st dose, however after several days I returned back to normal Again, like you mentioned we will just see what the blood tests say. I know 3 things could be effecting my morning wood:

1) high estrogen
2) high prolactin
3) low test

Paleo is good for meat eaters who are afraid of "dieting" because they think they wont be able to eat enough and will always be hungry.

Just had some spinach and garlic with a nice slab of salmon... YUM

Crossfit is just a general physical health type program that builds some pretty insane endurance while giving (untrained) folks a decent base of strength, flexibility and conditioning all while burning massive amounts of fat/calories in generally a pretty short amount of time(many workouts are mess than 30 minutes including warmup and cooldown). Many folks use it as a primary exercise routine but alone it wont cut it if your goals are pure strength, size or are a marathon runner but even those folks will often use some crossfit to supplement their sport specific work.

Is this similar to cross training? Weighed myself today and dropped 2 more pounds, (down to 308 yeah!) I usually walk 3 -5 miles and use light weights 35< Between that and running after a 2 babies, I am getting alot of "cross training" lol

can't wait to get my blood drawn tomorrow... ooh yeah, 1 final question. Should I remove my patches before I get my blood drawn or should I just keep them on? If you can't answer by the time you read this i'll just leave them on. (I normally change them in the evening.

Thank you

 

[Zyglamail]

1) high estrogen
2) high prolactin
3) low test

Could also be high BP and high SHBG os a combination of all of the above.

Is this similar to cross training? Weighed myself today and dropped 2 more pounds, (down to 308 yeah!) I usually walk 3 -5 miles and use light weights 35< Between that and running after a 2 babies, I am getting alot of "cross training" lol

crossfit involves work over time, generally very high intensity, everything is against the clock, max heart rate stuff. One crossfit workout done in the time it takes you to walk 3 miles would burn more calories than a whole weeks worth of walks. Checkout crossfit.com for daily workouts, faw, scaling etc.

can't wait to get my blood drawn tomorrow... ooh yeah, 1 final question. Should I remove my patches before I get my blood drawn or should I just keep them on? If you can't answer by the time you read this i'll just leave them on. (I normally change them in the evening.

Thank you

Probably doesnt matter when you change the patches, patches dont work for most folks honestly, Id look into getting injections.

Keep us posted on your latest lab results.

 

[boomer169]

lab update

estradiol 59 (ref range 7.5-42.6)
estrone 71 (ref range 12-72)

total estrogen 126 (ref range 10-114)

prolactin fell 11 points on my bromocriptine was 40 now it's 29

Dr now has me on anastrozole .5mg every other day and increased my bromocriptine to 2.5mg (1 pill) per day

total test is up from 298 to 400 (ref range 249-800)

it was funny because the dr REALLY didn't want to prescribe the anastrozole but he couldn't argue with the test results, (even though he spent about 5 minutes talking to himself about the tests lol)

there you have it, I'll be retested in 3 weeks and we shall see what happens

 

[Zyglamail]

Thats seems a bit more inline, all E's high. The ana should help but at the end of the day your diet will likely be the key. Your test levels arent high enough to be causing that kind of E.

 

[boomer169]

Thats seems a bit more inline, all E's high. The ana should help but at the end of the day your diet will likely be the key. Your test levels arent high enough to be causing that kind of E.

hello again, yes I agree but, I'm curious as to why I am having a lack of morning erections and very low libido. Maybe those levels are high for me as I mentioned before I was having very sensitive nipple issues. Considering my test is pretty normal (400 is in the normal range) it could be either (a) still elevated prolactin, or (b) the elevated Estrogen.

With one hormone stabilized I'm sure I'll know more in the weeks ahead. The diet's going well and I'm down almost to 305 woohoo.... more news to come