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HGH Injection timing - Plunkey get in here

I always did it first thing in the morning before anything but read a lot of different info too.
 
Hi I'm new to this forum.

I've been on HGH (serostim) for 7 months now. Always injected first thing in the morning after waking. Currently on 3.3iu per day 6 on 1 off during off cycle and 5iu 6 on 1 off during test cycle.
 
Thetan said:
Hi I'm new to this forum.

I've been on HGH (serostim) for 7 months now. Always injected first thing in the morning after waking. Currently on 3.3iu per day 6 on 1 off during off cycle and 5iu 6 on 1 off during test cycle.
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
Mornings. Right out of bed. Do not have any carbs for 45 minutes after taking it.
 
AAP said:
Mornings. Right out of bed. Do not have any carbs for 45 minutes after taking it.
Click to expand...

This -- I believe this is the latest advice.

Early-on, doctors advocated HGH right before bed. Suppossedly that aligned with your own natural HGH production.

But most of the thinking now (I believe breaks toward doing it first thing in the morning and laying off carbs (I was told an hour).

Here are a couple of other largely-accepted HGH beliefs:

1) Always use HGH with low blood sugar. HGH in the presence of high blood sugar can damage tissues.

2) The maximum dose you can effectively process is around 2.0-2.4 units. Shooting much more than 2.4 is best done by splitting the dose and separating the shots by several hours (or more).

3) The HGH molecule is very frail (27k+ daltons -- a huge and wobbly molecule). Don't shake vials. But also, be careful about even the smallest stray bubble when you inject. That bubble can act like a foaming agent and tear-up some of your dose. It doesn't keep well after reconstitution even in the refrigerator either (think days, not weeks).

It'll type more if I remember it. The best advice I ever got was from the Anti-Aging Group (a legal physician clinic) down in Florida.
 
mrplunkey said:
This -- I believe this is the latest advice.

Early-on, doctors advocated HGH right before bed. Suppossedly that aligned with your own natural HGH production.

But most of the thinking now (I believe breaks toward doing it first thing in the morning and laying off carbs (I was told an hour).

Here are a couple of other largely-accepted HGH beliefs:

1) Always use HGH with low blood sugar. HGH in the presence of high blood sugar can damage tissues.

2) The maximum dose you can effectively process is around 2.0-2.4 units. Shooting much more than 2.4 is best done by splitting the dose and separating the shots by several hours (or more).

3) The HGH molecule is very frail (27k+ daltons -- a huge and wobbly molecule). Don't shake vials. But also, be careful about even the smallest stray bubble when you inject. That bubble can act like a foaming agent and tear-up some of your dose. It doesn't keep well after reconstitution even in the refrigerator either (think days, not weeks).

It'll type more if I remember it. The best advice I ever got was from the Anti-Aging Group (a legal physician clinic) down in Florida.
Click to expand...

I am using that same group but can't remember them telling me when to use it.

Mine says it is good for 14 days in the fridge. Wonder how you can test that.

Thanks for that though.
 
BillFred...I don't think I was on it long enough to really notice much. About 2.5 months at 2 IU's ED. I've read the magic number is the 6 month range and beyond. Keep us posted!
 
samoth said:
Really? Any more details or a link? I've never used GH, so haven't read much about it at all.



:cow:
Click to expand...

I'm way outside my element here. Fact check me from this point on.

But I believe people with unnaturally-high HGH levels (i.e. a tumor on their pituitary gland) battle organ damage as well.

My only real first-hand knowledge was from the AAG, who told me to shoot in the mornings and never put sugar in my coffee when I do it.

Wish I had more, but those guys seemed genuinely freaked-out that I'd do a double-sugar coffee and shoot up.
 
a good place with a lot of info on GH (with a shitload of studies behind it) is datbtrue's forum

you have to join to read the info tho and they have to approve of your joining...
 
the info on that forum in general will mind fuck you and keep you reading shit for days though.
 
Thanks shirl. I'm gonna check it out!
 
AAP said:
How much is this AAG place charging and what brand is it?
Click to expand...

I get my scripts locally now, and they give me Genotropin Mini-Quicks (0.6 mg). It's the one where you get a self-contained per-use dose that mixes in the syringe itself.

They're crazy expensive at AAG and still expensive via local script -- I'd have to look up the price.

But if you travel heavily, mixing up vials is tough. I like having it freeze-dried in single dose
 
mrplunkey said:
This -- I believe this is the latest advice.

Early-on, doctors advocated HGH right before bed. Suppossedly that aligned with your own natural HGH production.

But most of the thinking now (I believe breaks toward doing it first thing in the morning and laying off carbs (I was told an hour).

Here are a couple of other largely-accepted HGH beliefs:

1) Always use HGH with low blood sugar. HGH in the presence of high blood sugar can damage tissues.

2) The maximum dose you can effectively process is around 2.0-2.4 units. Shooting much more than 2.4 is best done by splitting the dose and separating the shots by several hours (or more).

3) The HGH molecule is very frail (27k+ daltons -- a huge and wobbly molecule). Don't shake vials. But also, be careful about even the smallest stray bubble when you inject. That bubble can act like a foaming agent and tear-up some of your dose. It doesn't keep well after reconstitution even in the refrigerator either (think days, not weeks).

It'll type more if I remember it. The best advice I ever got was from the Anti-Aging Group (a legal physician clinic) down in Florida.
Click to expand...

This is all good advice, and honestly I had never done any research on HGH timing, other than what my MD told me. He said to do it at bedtime to mimic natural production, but that's of course from a different perspective than what we might be looking from here. Thanks for putting this up!

Charles
 
kx250rider said:
This is all good advice, and honestly I had never done any research on HGH timing, other than what my MD told me. He said to do it at bedtime to mimic natural production, but that's of course from a different perspective than what we might be looking from here. Thanks for putting this up!

Charles
Click to expand...

yeah.. I think the bedtime app is from the assumption your pituitary gland is not producing the hormone naturally.
 
When I first started reading about this I spoke to a couple of the docs I work with. Neither one is into the bodybuilding lifestyle but they both cautioned long term GH use with the thought that because it causes growth, it could cause organ growth and other growth in cells ie: if you have cancer cells. I haven't done anything further recently in terms of research and looking at studies but that did stick with me.

Thoughts?
 
caligirl85 said:
When I first started reading about this I spoke to a couple of the docs I work with. Neither one is into the bodybuilding lifestyle but they both cautioned long term GH use with the thought that because it causes growth, it could cause organ growth and other growth in cells ie: if you have cancer cells. I haven't done anything further recently in terms of research and looking at studies but that did stick with me.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

They do recommend discontinuing HGH use if any sort of cancer is detected. And even people with generally-benign early-stage cancers are not given HGH.

I believe the thoughts around organ growth result from acromegaly patients. These people naturally make far too much HGH and the effects are unmistakeable. They'll have spreading of their teeth where their skull grows and very noticeable thickening of their foreheads and jaw. But I believe these people are receiving doses much higher than someone on routine HGH therapy.

What I don't think you'll find in the literature is the effect of moderate HGH doses on people 35+. I'm sure there are a lot of people using it now (in the NFL, it's referred to as "medicine" and it's estimated that around 2/3 of them use it), but I don't know how many of them are being medically monitored for long-term follow-up.
 
Interesting thread. Is hGH really common nowadays? I'm surprised at the number and type of people familiar with it in this thread. I thought it was still a prohibitively expensive drug for guys who needed to push beyond what other anabolic compounds couldn't do... although it makes sense the life extensionalists would get into this stuff sooner or later.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
Interesting thread. Is hGH really common nowadays? I'm surprised at the number and type of people familiar with it in this thread. I thought it was still a prohibitively expensive drug for guys who needed to push beyond what other anabolic compounds couldn't do... although it makes sense the life extensionalists would get into this stuff sooner or later.



:cow:
Click to expand...

It's hit the mainstream and is popular among the 35+ crowd for anti-aging. The real stuff is still expensive. But for me, it's just priced to market -- with great benefits come great price premiums.

In my opinion (no citationings), it probably wouldn't benefit someone who is 20 years old in anything less than superphysiological doses. But for a person 35+ who wants to play by the rules, get the blood work done and stay under a physician's care, it's a miracle drug. In professional sports, it's widely believed to extend careers by several years (as much as 10).

It's been my experience (N=1, keep that in mind) that the benefits come in waves. The first 2-3 months of use only results in an overall feeling of well-being. Around the six month mark, you notice better (stronger) skin and a distinct improvement in overall healing. Then around the two year mark, you really do see the anti-aging effect. It's not unusual to hit new personal records lifting as well as a surge in energy and enthusiasm.

I couldn't imagine going without it now. It helps both professionally and personally.
 
mrplunkey said:
It's hit the mainstream and is popular among the 35+ crowd for anti-aging. The real stuff is still expensive. But for me, it's just priced to market -- with great benefits come great price premiums.

In my opinion (no citationings), it probably wouldn't benefit someone who is 20 years old in anything less than superphysiological doses. But for a person 35+ who wants to play by the rules, get the blood work done and stay under a physician's care, it's a miracle drug. In professional sports, it's widely believed to extend careers by several years (as much as 10).

It's been my experience (N=1, keep that in mind) that the benefits come in waves. The first 2-3 months of use only results in an overall feeling of well-being. Around the six month mark, you notice better (stronger) skin and a distinct improvement in overall healing. Then around the two year mark, you really do see the anti-aging effect. It's not unusual to hit new personal records lifting as well as a surge in energy and enthusiasm.

I couldn't imagine going without it now. It helps both professionally and personally.
Click to expand...

just think if you incorporated it with a Crossfit(TM) regimen!
 
-SD- said:
Wish I had plunkey cash so i could get lots of HGH
Click to expand...

With advice from this board, a good source and a means to get regular bloodwork, I bet you could drive the cost of HGH therapy down considerably.

And if that doesn't work, just meditate using all-natural pot smoke and stick with a vegan diet. I'm sure that works great too.
 
Thanks for the info Plunkey. I have a doc's appt tomorrow for something unrelated but I'm gonna ask him just for fun...see what he says! lol

Samoth...it's definitely become mainstream. That and the peptides too. So many people seem relatively uneducated about it. ie: Thinking it's going to do wonders in the first month. I know a couple bikini competitors who are using it....under 30 retarded girls. lol
 
redsamurai said:
If ur shooting 2-3iu's a day, I make more GH in a day than you shoot up in maybe even a whole week. Go look at my NIH link then do the math.
Click to expand...

Post up a copy of your latest bloodwork showing IGF-1 levels and let's have a look.
 
mrplunkey said:
Post up a copy of your latest bloodwork showing IGF-1 levels and let's have a look.
Click to expand...

2000% more GH a day over baseline. And those were sedentary people. Not people who are also then working out on an empty stomach. It's common knowledge lifting weights release's massive amounts of GH, especially when you get over 80% of 1rep. Hard to put an exact number on things but after a wkt it has to be well over 2000%. What is the test for IGF levels called? That may not be something my general practitioner does but I'm sure the Cleveland Clinic can do it and I'm not far.
 
redsamurai said:
2000% more GH a day over baseline. And those were sedentary people. Not people who are also then working out on an empty stomach. It's common knowledge lifting weights release's massive amounts of GH, especially when you get over 80% of 1rep. Hard to put an exact number on things but after a wkt it has to be well over 2000%. What is the test for IGF levels called? That may not be something my general practitioner does but I'm sure the Cleveland Clinic can do it and I'm not far.
Click to expand...

HGH production and its corresponding effect on IGF-1 levels has ridiculously-high biological variation. It can be impacted by genes, age, physical stress, emotional stress, sleep (quantity and quality), weighlifting, other hormones and God-knows what else.

I have nine years of lab work from HGH injections, and here's the best I can figure from an N=1 lab experiment:

- You cannot guess or estimate your current HGH levels to even within 50%, even if you have nine years worth of lab work stacked-up. You may be able to sense your blood sugar levels (roughly) or even your testosterone levels, but you can't get even close to guessing your HGH/IGF-1 levels. You have to do bloodwork.

- Don't start believing the HGH/IGF-1 bloodwork until you've done 4-6 labs at 6-8 week intervals.

- HGH is a moving target. The dose that works for you today will almost certainly not be the dose that works a year from now. And that dose can go dramatically up (100%+) or dramatically down (50% less or more).

- Emotional stress, physical stress and poor sleep can suppress HGH levels even if you are supplementing with it. I've required almost five units per day five days a week just to get to 10% below maximum-normal levels.

- Weights help HGH levels in general by a modest amount, but the slightest amount of overtraining begins suppressing HGH (and your response to exogenous HGH) very quickly.

- Even a small amount of testosterone (i.e. 150 mg/week) increases your response to HGH (or your own HGH production). I can get to 10% below max normal on as little as 2 IUs/week.

- I personally don't see any connection between HGH levels and diet from either a quantity or quality perspective. But then again, the base variation is so high that the effect could just be lost in the sea of other changes.

There are several panels that look for IGF-1 -- you'd want the cheapest panel that captured that lab value. Any random practitioner can order you the test and the draw could be done at some local chain like LabCorp.
 
I'm in the docs waiting room as we speak... Gonna ask him about gh

Is that better?? Back to topic ;)
 
PICK3 said:
fine!



hope you realize wut you're signing up for

pool maintenance is a snap

ancillary cabana duties ... knot so much
Click to expand...

Yeah, but with a pool girl, I won't have to close my eyes and pretend I'm knot doing a dude.

Just like crocs. They're kinda like getting a blow job from a guy. It feels great until you look down and realize you're gay.
 
mrplunkey said:
Yeah, but with a pool girl, I won't have to close my eyes and pretend I'm knot doing a dude.

Just like crocs. They're kinda like getting a blow job from a guy. It feels great until you look down and realize you're gay.
Click to expand...

So it's the end of teh <dirt> road for me? :(
 
mrplunkey said:
Yeah, but with a pool girl, I won't have to close my eyes and pretend I'm knot doing a dude.

Just like crocs. They're kinda like getting a blow job from a guy. It feels great until you look down and realize you're gay.
Click to expand...

At least you said crocs and not vibrams!
 
samoth said:
So is IGF-1 still on the market? How would coadministration of IGF and GH affect the body? One alone versus the other alone?



;cow:
Click to expand...

I've never understood or used IGF-1 directly. My only experience is watching IGF-1 levels fluctuate with varying doses of HGH.
 
PICK3 said:
fine!



hope you realize wut you're signing up for

pool maintenance is a snap

ancillary cabana duties ... knot so much
Click to expand...


on the bright side your b-hole now has a chance to recover from the constant prolapse you've subjected it to over the past few years. Now it's Cali's turn.
 
mrplunkey said:
I've never understood or used IGF-1 directly. My only experience is watching IGF-1 levels fluctuate with varying doses of HGH.
Click to expand...


It's not hard, IGF is what gets made when the HGH passes through the liver. IGF is what's most important to bodybuilders as it has more affinity to muscle and connective tissues. HGH is the parent hormone that is better for general overall health whereas IGF is what weightlifters and athletes are most concerned with.
 
mrplunkey said:
HGH production and its corresponding effect on IGF-1 levels has ridiculously-high biological variation. It can be impacted by genes, age, physical stress, emotional stress, sleep (quantity and quality), weighlifting, other hormones and God-knows what else.

I have nine years of lab work from HGH injections, and here's the best I can figure from an N=1 lab experiment:

- You cannot guess or estimate your current HGH levels to even within 50%, even if you have nine years worth of lab work stacked-up. You may be able to sense your blood sugar levels (roughly) or even your testosterone levels, but you can't get even close to guessing your HGH/IGF-1 levels. You have to do bloodwork.

- Don't start believing the HGH/IGF-1 bloodwork until you've done 4-6 labs at 6-8 week intervals.

- HGH is a moving target. The dose that works for you today will almost certainly not be the dose that works a year from now. And that dose can go dramatically up (100%+) or dramatically down (50% less or more).

- Emotional stress, physical stress and poor sleep can suppress HGH levels even if you are supplementing with it. I've required almost five units per day five days a week just to get to 10% below maximum-normal levels.

- Weights help HGH levels in general by a modest amount, but the slightest amount of overtraining begins suppressing HGH (and your response to exogenous HGH) very quickly.

- Even a small amount of testosterone (i.e. 150 mg/week) increases your response to HGH (or your own HGH production). I can get to 10% below max normal on as little as 2 IUs/week.

- I personally don't see any connection between HGH levels and diet from either a quantity or quality perspective. But then again, the base variation is so high that the effect could just be lost in the sea of other changes.

There are several panels that look for IGF-1 -- you'd want the cheapest panel that captured that lab value. Any random practitioner can order you the test and the draw could be done at some local chain like LabCorp.
Click to expand...


all our bullshit aside this was an "awesome" response and something that I'd like to follow up with you on again at some point if we can call a truce every now and then. Someone who has 9 years of blood work from HGH supplementation is someone I'd like to speak about this with.
 
ok so I completely understand your point about hgh levels being a moving target, I've known that and that's why it's hard to test for GH use in sports cause you basically have to catch it within 20-30 minutes of secretion because it's pulsatile and random.

So first let me explain the math I did earlier, I may be wrong I acknowledge this. But when I researched average GH levels in normal humans I found that "generally" they say 20 year olds make about 500 micrograms a day and by 40 we're making 200-250. So I put myself at 400 micrograms because I've been lifting at 90%+ intensity since I was 20 and that's where they say lifters make the most GH..when they're operating as close to their 1 rep max as possible. I also read that 1mg of GH equals about 2-3 Iu's. This is where I may be off I don't know, it's kind of nebulous from what I've read on the internet. So again, I may be introducing a lot of errors.

Now, the fasting study. The researchers made the statement that detecting accurate GH levels in people is very difficult because of what we talked about before. But detecting GH levels in fasting people is "easy"...because at about the 12 hour mark the body goes into continuous production. So their top end of the study was 2000% more GH production over average baseline. So I took 400 micrograms and multiplied it by 2000%. That's a lot of fucking GH, more than any sane person would want to inject synthetically. But this is also biological compatible GH, obviously, so it isn't going to make one of your organs randomly grow an extra wing because that GH is being metabolized for specific purpose's. The reason I'm fairly confident that I'm "at least" at that 2000% mark is because I'm also weightlifting in the fasted state. That took some getting used to no question, I'm still adapting to it. So if they saw 2000% increases at the top level in their subjects who weren't doing "any" strenuous physical activity....I've got to be "at least" at 2000%.

This is where I"d like to compare notes with you. Prior to starting this diet I had "ridiculous" joint problems with my shoulders and my back. You remember me talking about my back, you've trolled me on more than one occasion about it. But honest to god swear on the Spellwin himself my back hasn't even tweaked since I started this, it's been at least 6 months now, maybe more. There wasn't a single upperbody wkt during the week where I wouldn't walk out of the gym with an ice bag on one of my shoulders. It was just ritual. Went on for easily 2 years. The back would also tweak with regularity, sometimes really badly where I could barely move for a day or two. All of this was just systemic inflammation. It got "slightly" better when I went to the vegetarian diet but it didn't go away. I've known for awhile now that when I fasted shit healed quicker. But I never contemplated working out in the fasted state. So you've been doing this synthetically for 9 years, what is the difference in recovery and joint issues?

Even though I'm done with roids, GH supplementation is still something I'd consider in the future even though I appear to be fine on that front. It may be beneficial to do a couple months out of the year to give your pituitary a break, I don't know. I think that because I read a study that said low dose testosterone therapy actually makes your natural levels come back hard afterward. They did a study on some older men...lot older than you actually. For one night only I'll admit you're in your mid 40's. These guys were all in their 50's if I remember correctly and their natural T levels came back virtually to that of 20 year olds because the supplementation allowed their hpt axis to take a breather.

I hope you read this and don't dismiss it outright just cause it came from me. There's some significant studies on caloric restriction and/or timing that are fascinating to me and this isn't some hippy bullshit that you like to paint me with. The body does some fascinating shit when fasting like completely shutting testosterone down and making growth hormone, norpenipherine, insulin, adrenaline..stuff like that. The reason is because it's priming us for war, or hunting whatever. Basically physical combat. Than after we have that meal, those chemicals get shut down and we make massive amounts of testosterone. I don't care what anybody say's that's fascinating as fuck to me. All those hormones that keep us young and strong are made when we're not eating. Testosterone is basically just the fuck hormone, nothing more....there to give us the urge to procreate.
 
mrplunkey said:
I've never understood or used IGF-1 directly. My only experience is watching IGF-1 levels fluctuate with varying doses of HGH.
Click to expand...


I was kind of wondering this below, but in simplified terms. Like, I get it on the surface level, but I know there's a ton going on behind the scenes that I just don't understant or know. I really need a first-year text on endocrinology. (Hey, Chris, got one?)

4494000f3.gif


Kidney International - Figure 3 for article: Chronic renal disease: A growing problem



:cow:
 
redsamurai said:
on the bright side your b-hole now has a chance to recover from the constant prolapse you've subjected it to over the past few years. Now it's Cali's turn.
Click to expand...

I actually think I'm a little too old for mr plunkey so pick... He's all yours!
 
redsamurai said:
ok so I completely understand your point about hgh levels being a moving target, I've known that and that's why it's hard to test for GH use in sports cause you basically have to catch it within 20-30 minutes of secretion because it's pulsatile and random.

So first let me explain the math I did earlier, I may be wrong I acknowledge this. But when I researched average GH levels in normal humans I found that "generally" they say 20 year olds make about 500 micrograms a day and by 40 we're making 200-250. So I put myself at 400 micrograms because I've been lifting at 90%+ intensity since I was 20 and that's where they say lifters make the most GH..when they're operating as close to their 1 rep max as possible. I also read that 1mg of GH equals about 2-3 Iu's. This is where I may be off I don't know, it's kind of nebulous from what I've read on the internet. So again, I may be introducing a lot of errors.

Now, the fasting study. The researchers made the statement that detecting accurate GH levels in people is very difficult because of what we talked about before. But detecting GH levels in fasting people is "easy"...because at about the 12 hour mark the body goes into continuous production. So their top end of the study was 2000% more GH production over average baseline. So I took 400 micrograms and multiplied it by 2000%. That's a lot of fucking GH, more than any sane person would want to inject synthetically. But this is also biological compatible GH, obviously, so it isn't going to make one of your organs randomly grow an extra wing because that GH is being metabolized for specific purpose's. The reason I'm fairly confident that I'm "at least" at that 2000% mark is because I'm also weightlifting in the fasted state. That took some getting used to no question, I'm still adapting to it. So if they saw 2000% increases at the top level in their subjects who weren't doing "any" strenuous physical activity....I've got to be "at least" at 2000%.

This is where I"d like to compare notes with you. Prior to starting this diet I had "ridiculous" joint problems with my shoulders and my back. You remember me talking about my back, you've trolled me on more than one occasion about it. But honest to god swear on the Spellwin himself my back hasn't even tweaked since I started this, it's been at least 6 months now, maybe more. There wasn't a single upperbody wkt during the week where I wouldn't walk out of the gym with an ice bag on one of my shoulders. It was just ritual. Went on for easily 2 years. The back would also tweak with regularity, sometimes really badly where I could barely move for a day or two. All of this was just systemic inflammation. It got "slightly" better when I went to the vegetarian diet but it didn't go away. I've known for awhile now that when I fasted shit healed quicker. But I never contemplated working out in the fasted state. So you've been doing this synthetically for 9 years, what is the difference in recovery and joint issues?

Even though I'm done with roids, GH supplementation is still something I'd consider in the future even though I appear to be fine on that front. It may be beneficial to do a couple months out of the year to give your pituitary a break, I don't know. I think that because I read a study that said low dose testosterone therapy actually makes your natural levels come back hard afterward. They did a study on some older men...lot older than you actually. For one night only I'll admit you're in your mid 40's. These guys were all in their 50's if I remember correctly and their natural T levels came back virtually to that of 20 year olds because the supplementation allowed their hpt axis to take a breather.

I hope you read this and don't dismiss it outright just cause it came from me. There's some significant studies on caloric restriction and/or timing that are fascinating to me and this isn't some hippy bullshit that you like to paint me with. The body does some fascinating shit when fasting like completely shutting testosterone down and making growth hormone, norpenipherine, insulin, adrenaline..stuff like that. The reason is because it's priming us for war, or hunting whatever. Basically physical combat. Than after we have that meal, those chemicals get shut down and we make massive amounts of testosterone. I don't care what anybody say's that's fascinating as fuck to me. All those hormones that keep us young and strong are made when we're not eating. Testosterone is basically just the fuck hormone, nothing more....there to give us the urge to procreate.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about HGH production and fasting. For me personally, I haven't associated much of a change in GH production with diet and/or weight.

As far as making 500 micrograms a day at 20 years old, that would be 3.5 mg (10.6 IU) per week which sounds low. There may be some efficiencies associated with natural versus exogenous HGH and I don't know how much of the dose gets broken upon delivery (I suspect it's more than they admit).

For the 40 year old example, 200 micrograms/day = 1.4 mg/week. Then assume you need somewhere between 0.8 to 1.6 mg per day on five out of seven days to get back to high-normal levels. That puts you at 4.0 to 8.0 mg/week of exogenous HGH.

Here's another datapoint to check. For children with HGH deficiency, dosing guidelines are 0.025 to 0.043 mg/kg/day. So for 80 lb kid, we're talking about 0.91mg to 1.56mg per day. But those are done seven days a week (I believe), so you'd be at ~11 mg per week maximum. So far, the studies show that these kids have no adverse long-term effects.

Here's why I'd question the 2000% (20x) impact. At 400 micrograms/day, you'd be making 2.8mg per week. But even if you were at the 20x level for only 25% of the time (8 hours/day) on average, you'd be at 2.8 + 25%*2.8*20 = 16.8mg per week. That's high -- comfortably above the maximum guidelines for dosing children (but you do also weigh considerably more than they do). I suspect (no citationing here) that you'd down-regulate your own production before your body would make that much.

And I would keep an eye on the weightlifting and HGH linkage. There's no doubt the lifting increases HGH when compared to sedentary people -- but the lifting/HGH curve flattens-out and starts to drop again past a certain point. I would bet a lot of people who workout at higher intensities are past (sometimes far past) that optimum point.

And when it comes to the impact of HGH, its really best to periodically get some IGF-1 bloodwork at regular intervals and just test it for yourself. Then you'll get a feel for how the number is just all over the board.
 
PICK3 said:
knot so easily

I'm all butt hurt now
Click to expand...

I'll make it up to you.

We'll coordinate costumes for the Cutter's "Anything Goes" dress-up night.

I'll dress up as a rocket and you can go as Uranus.
 
billfred said:
Plunked - do you work out in the morning after your injection?
Click to expand...

I've moved my workouts from the mornings to noon (at work).

My mornings are now tied-up chasing twins between 7:00 and 7:30 because they're typically asleep before I get home.
 
mrplunkey said:
I've moved my workouts from the mornings to noon (at work).

My mornings are now tied-up chasing twins between 7:00 and 7:30 because they're typically asleep before I get home.
Click to expand...

ok.. my problem is with carbs and hgh. I usually do HGH, have a small energy drink, then do about 1 hr cardio / light weight workout.

Now I am thinking I must skip the energy drink or wait 45 minutes between pin and drink. Thoughts??

It is more or less a green tea/ ephedra drink with some cane sugar in it. About 60 calories in total.
 
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billfred said:
ok.. my problem is with carbs and hgh. I usually do HGH, have a small energy drink, then do about 1 hr cardio / light weight workout.

Now I am thinking I must skip the energy drink or wait 45 minutes between pin and drink. Thoughts??

It is more or less a green tea/ ephedra drink with some cane sugar in it. About 60 calories in total.
Click to expand...

I run into the same problem with my preworkout drinks -- and the post workout ones can be even worse.

So for me, injecting in the morning and holding-off on breakfast for an hour works. And based on what I've heard and read, a pre-workout drink would be a bad combination with an HGH shot.
 
if you work out at noon wouldn't you want that GH shot right after? Years ago I did IGF and the protocols were usually as PWO as possible.
 
ok ... last comment here.

My first bloods looked like this
IGF 1 = 121 ng/ml
Test = 686 ng/dL
Free Test = 15 pg/mL
Estradiol = 32.7 pg/mL

6 week follow up

IGF 1 = 199 ng/mL
Test = 911 ng/dL
Free Test = 21.2 pg/mL
Estradiol = 26.5 pg/mL


Now out of that they only thing they increased was adding another day of HGH injection. If IGF1 is at the top of the range, does that make sense?
 
mrplunkey said:
I don't know much about HGH production and fasting. For me personally, I haven't associated much of a change in GH production with diet and/or weight.

As far as making 500 micrograms a day at 20 years old, that would be 3.5 mg (10.6 IU) per week which sounds low. There may be some efficiencies associated with natural versus exogenous HGH and I don't know how much of the dose gets broken upon delivery (I suspect it's more than they admit).

For the 40 year old example, 200 micrograms/day = 1.4 mg/week. Then assume you need somewhere between 0.8 to 1.6 mg per day on five out of seven days to get back to high-normal levels. That puts you at 4.0 to 8.0 mg/week of exogenous HGH.

Here's another datapoint to check. For children with HGH deficiency, dosing guidelines are 0.025 to 0.043 mg/kg/day. So for 80 lb kid, we're talking about 0.91mg to 1.56mg per day. But those are done seven days a week (I believe), so you'd be at ~11 mg per week maximum. So far, the studies show that these kids have no adverse long-term effects.

Here's why I'd question the 2000% (20x) impact. At 400 micrograms/day, you'd be making 2.8mg per week. But even if you were at the 20x level for only 25% of the time (8 hours/day) on average, you'd be at 2.8 + 25%*2.8*20 = 16.8mg per week. That's high -- comfortably above the maximum guidelines for dosing children (but you do also weigh considerably more than they do). I suspect (no citationing here) that you'd down-regulate your own production before your body would make that much.

And I would keep an eye on the weightlifting and HGH linkage. There's no doubt the lifting increases HGH when compared to sedentary people -- but the lifting/HGH curve flattens-out and starts to drop again past a certain point. I would bet a lot of people who workout at higher intensities are past (sometimes far past) that optimum point.

And when it comes to the impact of HGH, its really best to periodically get some IGF-1 bloodwork at regular intervals and just test it for yourself. Then you'll get a feel for how the number is just all over the board.
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omg...you and redsam are having an intelligent discussion without calling each other all sorts of derogatory names??? hahahaha wtf is the world coming too???

next thing you know, dogs and cats will be living together.
 
billfred said:
ok ... last comment here.

My first bloods looked like this
IGF 1 = 121 ng/ml
Test = 686 ng/dL
Free Test = 15 pg/mL
Estradiol = 32.7 pg/mL

6 week follow up

IGF 1 = 199 ng/mL
Test = 911 ng/dL
Free Test = 21.2 pg/mL
Estradiol = 26.5 pg/mL


Now out of that they only thing they increased was adding another day of HGH injection. If IGF1 is at the top of the range, does that make sense?
Click to expand...

That makes total sense. Upping HGH will increase test levels and vice versa.

That's how you can start a modest test/HGH cycle and still go superphysiological for both in 5-6 weeks.
 
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